Resolved, That, from and after the —— day of —— next, the following articles, being of the growth, or manufactures of Great Britain or Ireland, or of any of the colonies or dependencies of Great Britain, ought to be prohibited by law from being imported into the United States, or into the territories thereof, viz:All articles of which leather is the material of chief value; all articles of which tin or brass is the material of chief value, tin in sheets excepted; all articles of which hemp or flax is the material of chief value; all articles of which silk is the material of chief value; woollen cloths, whose invoice prices shall exceed ——; woollen hosiery of all kinds; window glass, and all other manufactures of glass; silver and plated wares; paper of every description; nails and spikes; hats; clothing ready made; millinery of all kinds; playing cards; beer, ale, and porter; and pictures and prints.
Resolved, That, from and after the —— day of —— next, the following articles, being of the growth, or manufactures of Great Britain or Ireland, or of any of the colonies or dependencies of Great Britain, ought to be prohibited by law from being imported into the United States, or into the territories thereof, viz:
All articles of which leather is the material of chief value; all articles of which tin or brass is the material of chief value, tin in sheets excepted; all articles of which hemp or flax is the material of chief value; all articles of which silk is the material of chief value; woollen cloths, whose invoice prices shall exceed ——; woollen hosiery of all kinds; window glass, and all other manufactures of glass; silver and plated wares; paper of every description; nails and spikes; hats; clothing ready made; millinery of all kinds; playing cards; beer, ale, and porter; and pictures and prints.
This resolution was immediately considered by the House, and referred to a Committee of the Whole on the state of the Union, and ordered to be printed.
Mr.Crowninshieldsaid, the gentleman from Maryland (Mr.Nicholson) had offered several resolutions prohibiting the importation of sundry articles of British manufactures into the United States. Mr. C. observed that he had another project which he wished to submit, relative to our trade with the British West Indies. He did not mean at this time to discuss the subject, either so far as it was connected with the propositions of the gentleman from Maryland, or with that of the gentleman from Pennsylvania, which went to a much greater extent. But with regard to one idea expressed by the gentleman from Maryland, he thought it proper to say a few words. That gentleman had observed that the proposition offered by the gentleman from Pennsylvania would affect the revenue to the amount of five millions of dollars; and therefore impressed upon the House the duty of being extremely cautious in taking such a step. Mr. C. said he did not believe the adoption of that proposition would affect the revenue to any such extent. He did not believe it would affect the revenue to the amount of a million of dollars. Because, although we should prohibit the importation of British goods, we could get most of the same articles from other countries. We get salt from Cadiz, and Lisbon, and from several other places. Rum could be got from every island in the West Indies; and if we should not be able to get a sufficient quantity to supply our wants, we could import from France brandies, which will be a good substitute. We may also get woollens from the continent of Europe, and every article on the list, perhaps at higher prices. It was not, however, Mr. C. said, his object at this time to discuss the merits of either proposition. His chief object was to offer his own project, which related to the West Indies. Every one knows that those islands are dependent on the United States for the necessaries of life; that they cannot get many important articles they absolutely want from other countries. Every one knows that for fish, beef, pork, and lumber, they are dependent on us, inasmuch as they cannot get them elsewhere. How is the trade carried on? Great Britain has adopted a curious commercial principle, bottomed on the principle of her navigation act; which in time of peace almost amounts to a prohibition to introduce into her islands any articles of ours; and which in time of war opens the ports of a few of her islands for the introduction of particular articles for three or six months. Mr. C. said he wished to see this trade permanently open to the citizens of the United States. He thought it probable this might be done by the adoption of his plan. The gentleman from Pennsylvania had offered a proposition which was calculated to meet in part the practices of Great Britain. The first resolution related to trading to the West Indies in foreign vessels, and not in vessels of the United States. Every one knew that in the trade between the United States and the West Indies there were either none, or very few foreign vessels.
Mr. C. then offered the following resolution:
Resolved, That, from and after the —— day of —— next, no goods, wares, or merchandise, shall be exported from, or imported into, the United States or the territories thereof, in any ship or vessel whatever, to or from any European colonies or settlements, situated on the eastern side of the continent of America, or its adjacent seas, northward of the Equator, unless the importation of all articles of the growth, product, or manufacture of the United States and their territories, in American bottoms, is at all times admitted into the said colonies, or settlements, and unless the exportation of the productions of the said colonies, or settlements, is permanently allowed in American bottoms from the same to the United States, and the territories thereof.
Resolved, That, from and after the —— day of —— next, no goods, wares, or merchandise, shall be exported from, or imported into, the United States or the territories thereof, in any ship or vessel whatever, to or from any European colonies or settlements, situated on the eastern side of the continent of America, or its adjacent seas, northward of the Equator, unless the importation of all articles of the growth, product, or manufacture of the United States and their territories, in American bottoms, is at all times admitted into the said colonies, or settlements, and unless the exportation of the productions of the said colonies, or settlements, is permanently allowed in American bottoms from the same to the United States, and the territories thereof.
Mr.Spalding, from the committee to whom was referred, on the thirteenth ultimo, the memorial of the Legislature of the State of Georgia, made a report thereon, which was read, as follows:
The committee to whom was referred the memorial of the Legislature of the State of Georgia, respecting disputed limits between that State and the State of North Carolina, having taken into consideration the matter of the said memorial, as well as such information as the documents attached to the memorial and former reports made to this House afford, beg leave to submit the following report:Between the latitude of 35 degrees north, which is the southern boundary claimed by North Carolina, and the northern boundary of Georgia, as settled by a convention between that State and South Carolina, intervenes a tract of country supposed to be about twelve miles wide, from north to south, and extending in length from the western boundary of Georgia, at Nicajack on the Tennessee, to her north-eastern limits, on the Tugalo. This tract was consequently within the limits of South Carolina, and in the year 1787 it was ceded to the United States, who accepted the cession. This territory remained in possession of theUnited States until 1802, when it was ceded to the State of Georgia. From the most correct information relative to the said territory, it appears that it is inhabited by about 800 souls, and (to adopt the words of a former report) it is not shown at what period they made the settlement, nor had they any title to the land on which they settled and made improvements. No such title indeed could have been created, as those lands remained within the boundary of the Cherokees until the year 1798, when a part of this territory was purchased by a treaty held at Tellico. It does not appear that the lines that bound the tract of land in question, and divide it from Carolina, have ever been established by public authority.After the transfer of this territory by the United States to Georgia, the Legislature of that State, in compliance with the earnest request of those self-governed people, praying that they might be allowed to participate in the civil rights enjoyed in common by the people of the United States, passed an act in the year 1803 to organize the inhabited part of the territory, and to form it into a county, authorizing, at the same time, the Governor to appoint commissioners, to meet such commissioners as should be appointed by the Government of North Carolina to ascertain and plainly mark the line dividing this territory from North Carolina. The Governor of North Carolina expressed a readiness to accede to the proposition, under the provisions of a former act of the Legislature of that State, but clogged with a condition which the Legislature of North Carolina refused to depart from, and which the Legislature of Georgia refused to accede to. Her reason may be found in a letter from General Pickens, of the State of South Carolina, attached to a report made to the House respecting that territory while the property of the United States. The letter states, that before the people inhabiting that territory settled on the lands, it was surveyed, and grants obtained for most part of it from the State of North Carolina, and probably by men who cared little whether the land was within the Indian claim or the limits of South Carolina. Your committee conceive that they have no right to enter into the feelings of either of the parties, or to pronounce upon the justice of the condition made by North Carolina on the one part, or its rejection by Georgia on the other, and have therefore confined their attention to that part of the memorial which calls upon Congress to define and mark out the thirty-fifth degree of latitude—the line which North Carolina admits to bound her State—upon the south and north of which Georgia can have no claim of territory. Your committee, after giving to this point the most deliberate consideration, are of opinion that the United States are bound, in good faith, to use their friendly offices with the State of North Carolina for obtaining an amicable adjustment of the limits of the territory, which they have transferred to Georgia, in all parts where such limits may be disputed.Your committee, therefore, beg leave to offer the following resolution:Resolved, That the President of the United States be authorized to appoint a commissioner, to meet such commissioners as may be appointed by the States of North Carolina and Georgia, for the purpose of ascertaining and running the line which divides the territory transferred by the United States to Georgia, from North Carolina.
The committee to whom was referred the memorial of the Legislature of the State of Georgia, respecting disputed limits between that State and the State of North Carolina, having taken into consideration the matter of the said memorial, as well as such information as the documents attached to the memorial and former reports made to this House afford, beg leave to submit the following report:
Between the latitude of 35 degrees north, which is the southern boundary claimed by North Carolina, and the northern boundary of Georgia, as settled by a convention between that State and South Carolina, intervenes a tract of country supposed to be about twelve miles wide, from north to south, and extending in length from the western boundary of Georgia, at Nicajack on the Tennessee, to her north-eastern limits, on the Tugalo. This tract was consequently within the limits of South Carolina, and in the year 1787 it was ceded to the United States, who accepted the cession. This territory remained in possession of theUnited States until 1802, when it was ceded to the State of Georgia. From the most correct information relative to the said territory, it appears that it is inhabited by about 800 souls, and (to adopt the words of a former report) it is not shown at what period they made the settlement, nor had they any title to the land on which they settled and made improvements. No such title indeed could have been created, as those lands remained within the boundary of the Cherokees until the year 1798, when a part of this territory was purchased by a treaty held at Tellico. It does not appear that the lines that bound the tract of land in question, and divide it from Carolina, have ever been established by public authority.
After the transfer of this territory by the United States to Georgia, the Legislature of that State, in compliance with the earnest request of those self-governed people, praying that they might be allowed to participate in the civil rights enjoyed in common by the people of the United States, passed an act in the year 1803 to organize the inhabited part of the territory, and to form it into a county, authorizing, at the same time, the Governor to appoint commissioners, to meet such commissioners as should be appointed by the Government of North Carolina to ascertain and plainly mark the line dividing this territory from North Carolina. The Governor of North Carolina expressed a readiness to accede to the proposition, under the provisions of a former act of the Legislature of that State, but clogged with a condition which the Legislature of North Carolina refused to depart from, and which the Legislature of Georgia refused to accede to. Her reason may be found in a letter from General Pickens, of the State of South Carolina, attached to a report made to the House respecting that territory while the property of the United States. The letter states, that before the people inhabiting that territory settled on the lands, it was surveyed, and grants obtained for most part of it from the State of North Carolina, and probably by men who cared little whether the land was within the Indian claim or the limits of South Carolina. Your committee conceive that they have no right to enter into the feelings of either of the parties, or to pronounce upon the justice of the condition made by North Carolina on the one part, or its rejection by Georgia on the other, and have therefore confined their attention to that part of the memorial which calls upon Congress to define and mark out the thirty-fifth degree of latitude—the line which North Carolina admits to bound her State—upon the south and north of which Georgia can have no claim of territory. Your committee, after giving to this point the most deliberate consideration, are of opinion that the United States are bound, in good faith, to use their friendly offices with the State of North Carolina for obtaining an amicable adjustment of the limits of the territory, which they have transferred to Georgia, in all parts where such limits may be disputed.
Your committee, therefore, beg leave to offer the following resolution:
Resolved, That the President of the United States be authorized to appoint a commissioner, to meet such commissioners as may be appointed by the States of North Carolina and Georgia, for the purpose of ascertaining and running the line which divides the territory transferred by the United States to Georgia, from North Carolina.
The report was read, and referred to a Committee of the whole House on Friday next.
The House went into a Committee of the Whole on the bill received from the Senate, the object of which is to authorize the location of a quantity of land in the Indiana Territory by George Rapp and his associates, they paying two dollars therefor, and giving them a credit, without the payment of interest, for six years, when they are to pay one-fourth of the purchase money, and the residue in six annual payments, on condition that, agreeably to prescribed terms, the vine shall be cultivated.
Mr.McCreerystated that George Rapp and his associates, amounting to about 3,000 persons, were natives of the Electorate of Wirtemberg; that they were Lutherans, who had fled from oppression in that country; that they were mostly cultivators of the vine, and wished an extension of the usual time for paying for public lands, they not having the means of the common payment; they wished to live together, and to cultivate the vine for their principal support, for their prosperity, and for the good of the community, in introducing its culture into this country.
Mr.Elyobserved that the bill appeared to give a preference in the sale of the public lands; that the bill was presented from the Senate without the documents or testimony which might justify this preference; he therefore moved that it should be committed to the Committee on Public Lands.
Mr.Gregg.—They obtain a whole township of the best land at only two dollars per acre, and it is proposed to extend to them an unusual indulgence in the time of payment. He would not agree to it.
Mr.Findlayspoke in favor of the bill.
Mr.Conrad.—The indulgence of time for payment is not unprecedented. He showed an act granting twelve years for payment where land was purchased for the same purpose, and that act does not bind the purchasers to plant the vine, whereas this does. It were better to make a present of the land than not have the settlement among us of such persons. If not thus sold, it is more than probable that the land will lie waste and unsold more than the six years.
Mr.Olin.—If we can be justified in a sale of this kind, why oblige foreigners instead of our own countrymen? We have citizens enough of our own who would be glad to purchase on such terms.
Mr.Sloan.—Though I drink no wine myself, I have no wish to prevent others, for I think it may often be serviceable. I consider the indulgence as to the time of payment in the light of an encouragement or bounty, that may prove useful to us as well as the applicants.
Mr.Smilie.—I cannot say with the gentleman from New Jersey that I drink no wine, for I certainly do when I can get it. I do not consider it as a valid objection that the petitionersare foreigners. I am myself a European, who have fled from oppression in the country where I was born. How great a part of Pennsylvania is settled by such characters!
Mr.McCreery.—The applicants are men of piety and industry. Let us give them a good chance, for our own sakes as well as theirs, to introduce the culture of the grape here.
Mr.Findlay.—If this indulgence be not given, the land will lie waste. We wish to populate the territory. Their settlement will enhance the value of the public lands around them.
Mr.Ely.—I am sorry my motion has occasioned so much debate. I was ignorant of the circumstances relating to this society, and to the character of it; my object was information, not an intention to defeat the bill. We deviate from the usual mode, which is to have the report of a committee in cases of this sort.
Mr.Gregg.—This bill very improperly authorizes a deviation from the established practice of selling public lands—it is a change of principle. I do not wish to see so great a body of foreigners settled together; we shall have a little Wirtemberg; we must legislate for them; they cannot speak our language; they cannot serve as jurymen, and from the information I have received, I am confident they will not succeed in cultivating the vine in that country.
Mr.Bedinger.—I am a shareholder in a vineyard in Kentucky, and our success has exceeded our most sanguine expectations.
Mr.Macon.—In order to try the sense of the committee, I move to strike out the words “George Rapp and his associates.” Why should we not grant bounties for raising wheat or corn as well as the vine? If wine can be made here to advantage, there is no need of the encouragement of this House. A few years since we raised no cotton, but the profit of this culture once known, it has become an article of vast exportation. What claim have these aliens over our own citizens? They have been oppressed; put your finger on any spot of Europe that is not under oppression. If you commence this new system, all the best sections of land will be taken up in this manner. Who will not purchase on such terms?
Mr.Lyon.—Lands not belonging to the public may be had for less than one dollar an acre in many places.
Mr.Olin.—We have men that can cultivate the vine as well as those foreigners. It is a plain, simple thing.
Mr.Jackson.—If disposed to grant favors, let us grant to those who have the greatest claim. There are many old soldiers of the Revolution, who would rejoice to purchase land on these terms. Why encourage the making of wines? They are luxuries, not necessaries. Lands on the Ohio are from six to eight dollars in many places; this bill gives the petitioners their choice of the best, and they pay no interest for their purchase, at two dollars.
Mr.Sloan.—This bill will enhance the value of lands adjoining. It will be a humane act.
Mr.Jackson.—I rise merely to state a fact I have just now learned. There are at this very time men waiting for the passage of this bill, who are ready to give six dollars per acre for much of the very land the bill contemplates.
Mr.Holland.—Some small tracts only may sell for six dollars. We bind the purchasers to plant the first year 9,000 plants, and 3,000 annually after.
Mr.Morrow, of Ohio.—I rise only to reply to the gentleman from Virginia, (Mr.Jackson.) I never seek for information in the lobby, nor the gallery, nor Pennsylvania avenue. The gentleman is misinformed.
Mr.Jackson.—My authority is an honorable member near me—an authority at least as respectable as any the gentleman from Ohio can have.
The question was taken—50 for striking out, 51 against it. The committee rose, and the House considered the bill.
Mr.Crowninshield.—There is no interest to be received. I have made a calculation that, considering the want of interest to the time of the last payment, we now get only ninety-seven cents per acre. I move to strike out two, and insert three dollars per acre.
The motion was lost—44 only for it.
Mr.Crowninshield.—There are in a section about 23,000 acres, making about 46,000 dollars. I move to insert six per cent. interest till paid.
Mr.Nicholson.—Public lands are sold without interest for a certain time. If the money be not punctually paid, I am willing the debt should be on interest after.
Mr.Jackson.—I move to postpone the consideration of the bill indefinitely.
The ayes and nays were called for, and taken on this motion—ayes 53, nays 59.
Mr.Crowninshield’s motion for the insertion of interest was lost—52 to 49.
Mr.D. R. Williamsmoved the insertion of two instead of six years for payment of the land. Motion lost—54 to 45. The bill passed to a third reading for to-morrow.
Mr.Garnett, from the committee appointed on the eighteenth of December last, to whom were referred the report of a select committee on the letter of William H. Harrison, made the seventeenth of February, eighteen hundred and four; a memorial of the Legislative Council and House of Representatives of the Indiana Territory, and several petitions of sundry inhabitants of the said Territory; made the following report:
That, having attentively considered the facts stated in the said petitions and memorials, they are of opinion that a qualified suspension, for a limited time, of the sixth article of compact between the original States and the people and States west of the river Ohio, would be beneficial to the people of theIndiana Territory. The suspension of this article is an object almost universally desired in that Territory. It appears to your committee to be a question entirely different from that between slavery and freedom, inasmuch as it would merely occasion the removal of persons, already slaves, from one part of the country to another. The good effects of this suspension, in the present instance, would be to accelerate the population of that Territory, hitherto retarded by the operation of that article of compact, as slaveholders emigrating into the Western country might then indulge any preference which they might feel for a settlement in the Indiana Territory, instead of seeking, as they are now compelled to do, settlements in other States or countries permitting the introduction of slaves. The condition of the slaves themselves would be much ameliorated by it, as it is evident, from experience, that the more they are separated and diffused, the more care and attention are bestowed on them by their masters, each proprietor having it in his power to increase their comforts and conveniences in proportion to the smallness of their numbers. The dangers, too, (if any are to be apprehended,) from too large a black population existing in any one section of country, would certainly be very much diminished, if not entirely removed. But whether dangers are to be feared from this source or not, it is certainly an obvious dictate of sound policy to guard against them, as far as possible. If this danger does exist, or there is any cause to apprehend it, and our Western brethren are not only willing but desirous to aid us in taking precautions against it, would it not be wise to accept their assistance? We should benefit ourselves, without injuring them, as their population must always so far exceed any black population which can ever exist in that country, as to render the idea of danger from that source chimerical.Your committee consider the regulation contained in the ordinance for the government of the Territory of the United States, which requires a freehold of fifty acres of land as a qualification for an elector of the General Assembly, as limiting too much the elective franchise. Some restrictions, however, being necessary, your committee conceive that a residence continued long enough to evince a determination to become a permanent inhabitant, should entitle a person to the rights of suffrage. This probationary period need not extend beyond twelve months.The petition of certain settlers in the Indiana Territory, praying to be annexed to the State of Ohio, ought not, in the opinion of your committee, to be granted.After attentively considering the various objects desired in the memorials and petitions, the committee respectfully submit to the House the following resolutions:1.Resolved, That the sixth article of the ordinance of 1787, which prohibits slavery within the Indiana Territory, be suspended for ten years, so as to permit the introduction of slaves, born within the United States, from any of the individual States.2.Resolved, That every white freeman of the age of twenty-one years, who has resided within the Territory twelve months, and within the county in which he claims a vote, six months immediately preceding the election, shall enjoy the rights of an Elector of the General Assembly.3.Resolved, That the petition of certain settlers in the Indiana Territory, praying to be annexed to the State of Ohio, ought not to be granted.4.Resolved, That it is inexpedient, at this time, to grant that part of the petition of the people of Randolph and St. Clair which prays for a division of the Indiana Territory.
That, having attentively considered the facts stated in the said petitions and memorials, they are of opinion that a qualified suspension, for a limited time, of the sixth article of compact between the original States and the people and States west of the river Ohio, would be beneficial to the people of theIndiana Territory. The suspension of this article is an object almost universally desired in that Territory. It appears to your committee to be a question entirely different from that between slavery and freedom, inasmuch as it would merely occasion the removal of persons, already slaves, from one part of the country to another. The good effects of this suspension, in the present instance, would be to accelerate the population of that Territory, hitherto retarded by the operation of that article of compact, as slaveholders emigrating into the Western country might then indulge any preference which they might feel for a settlement in the Indiana Territory, instead of seeking, as they are now compelled to do, settlements in other States or countries permitting the introduction of slaves. The condition of the slaves themselves would be much ameliorated by it, as it is evident, from experience, that the more they are separated and diffused, the more care and attention are bestowed on them by their masters, each proprietor having it in his power to increase their comforts and conveniences in proportion to the smallness of their numbers. The dangers, too, (if any are to be apprehended,) from too large a black population existing in any one section of country, would certainly be very much diminished, if not entirely removed. But whether dangers are to be feared from this source or not, it is certainly an obvious dictate of sound policy to guard against them, as far as possible. If this danger does exist, or there is any cause to apprehend it, and our Western brethren are not only willing but desirous to aid us in taking precautions against it, would it not be wise to accept their assistance? We should benefit ourselves, without injuring them, as their population must always so far exceed any black population which can ever exist in that country, as to render the idea of danger from that source chimerical.
Your committee consider the regulation contained in the ordinance for the government of the Territory of the United States, which requires a freehold of fifty acres of land as a qualification for an elector of the General Assembly, as limiting too much the elective franchise. Some restrictions, however, being necessary, your committee conceive that a residence continued long enough to evince a determination to become a permanent inhabitant, should entitle a person to the rights of suffrage. This probationary period need not extend beyond twelve months.
The petition of certain settlers in the Indiana Territory, praying to be annexed to the State of Ohio, ought not, in the opinion of your committee, to be granted.
After attentively considering the various objects desired in the memorials and petitions, the committee respectfully submit to the House the following resolutions:
1.Resolved, That the sixth article of the ordinance of 1787, which prohibits slavery within the Indiana Territory, be suspended for ten years, so as to permit the introduction of slaves, born within the United States, from any of the individual States.
2.Resolved, That every white freeman of the age of twenty-one years, who has resided within the Territory twelve months, and within the county in which he claims a vote, six months immediately preceding the election, shall enjoy the rights of an Elector of the General Assembly.
3.Resolved, That the petition of certain settlers in the Indiana Territory, praying to be annexed to the State of Ohio, ought not to be granted.
4.Resolved, That it is inexpedient, at this time, to grant that part of the petition of the people of Randolph and St. Clair which prays for a division of the Indiana Territory.
Referred to a Committee of the Whole on Thursday next.
The bill allowing George Rapp and his associates to locate a township of land in the Indiana Territory on certain conditions, was read a third time.
Mr.Clarkmoved to recommit the bill to the Committee on Public Lands. The bill wants several amendments. There is no penalty, should the petitioners neglect to plant the vines.
Mr.Jackson.—I second the motion of my colleague. These public lands formerly belonged to the State of Virginia; when ceded by that State, the Government of the United States were made trustees “for the common benefit of the Union; faithfully andbona fidefor that use, and for no other,” to use the words of the act granting the cession. This is a contract between Virginia and the United States; we are in the place of trustees; we cannot violate the trust, yet this mode of selling the land for the benefit of individual foreigners is a violation of the trust. This precedent will be quoted hereafter, and will operate most injuriously. Notwithstanding what the gentleman from Ohio (Mr.Morrow) has said, I cannot help saying, that there are men ready at this time to give six dollars per acre for this very land, or land of this description. This bill will give them a whole township, 23,000 acres of land of the first quality. I cannot conceive the cultivation of the vine as a national benefit, as being “for the common benefit of the Union.” It will diminish the revenue, should vines be raised in abundance here. Wine is heavily taxed, and the tax is paid by the rich. I am altogether opposed to the bill.
Mr.Smilie.—A new argument indeed is brought forward by the gentleman from Virginia. We can hardly turn round without somehow invading the rights of Virginia. If we talk of building a bridge or erecting a dam, at once the rights of Virginia are invaded. If we wish to dispose of some of our public land in the West as we think proper, the rights of Virginia are invaded. Virginia claimed lands stretching to the north pole; she took what she wanted, and gave a quit claim to the United States for the rest. Some of the House think this sale, this indulgence in the payment for the purpose of introducing the cultivation of the vine, and of serving these worthy foreigners, will be “for the common benefit of the Union;” some think otherwise; it is merely a matter of opinion, and a majority of opinion must decide.
Mr.Morrow.—There are some small tracts of land, on which what are calledsquattersaresettled, and where already improvements have been made, which would sell for four or six dollars per acre; but I doubt whether any township of land would sell for two dollars, even with the usual instalments.
Mr.Parke, of the Indiana Territory.—Even in the settled parts of the Territory, lands are not above three dollars.
Mr.Ely.—Gentlemen have said that poor lands were proper for the vine. It may be so; but the petitioner and his associates mention also the raising of hemp, which requires the best bottom lands. I am far from wishing to discourage these settlers; but they are already among us, and will not leave this country. They are represented to be (and I fully believe the representation) men of piety and morality; the United States are not beyond improvement in piety and morality; instead of putting them in one, and that a far-distant place, let them be scattered over the Union, that all parts may be benefited. Such a body of men, of one sect, of one language, will wish to seclude itself from the rest of the Union; they will wish what this bill gives them, and what I think injurious, an exclusive territory. We are deviating from our common usage in the sale of land. Is the deviation necessary or proper? Gentlemen have said they were flying from oppression to this land of liberty; liberty was their object; a republican Government; yet it appears that when they left Wirtemberg, their expectation and intention was to settle in Louisiana, then under the Spanish Government. The bill obliges them to plant a certain number of vines; perhaps the expense of this will not be $100, and there is no forfeiture even if they should refuse to comply. It may prove a fine speculation for them; they may get perhaps the finest land and the best salt lick in the territory.
Mr.Nicholson, (after recapitulating the arguments previously adduced.)—I have no objection to the settlement of the applicants in one body; nor can I see any probable evil resulting from it. The gentleman from Massachusetts has informed us that the people of the United States are bad enough, and that the distribution of this society over the whole States might prove advantageous to the Union; if not in one body, they must settle on lands for sale in different parts of Kentucky, Tennessee, Ohio, &c. This distribution would be unfair, as Massachusetts has not lands for sale, except perhaps in the district of Maine; hence that State would be deprived of the advantage it might obtain by an improvement of its piety and morality from a distribution of a part of this society among the citizens of that State. I know not why the sale of this land, according to the terms of the bill, should be considered as not conducing to the good of the nation. We have given lands for colleges and schools, and for the support of clergymen; we have also sold lands, the proceeds of which were to be expended for the improvement of roads—roads by which the public at large would be benefited, though the citizens of Maine or Georgia might never travel them.
The bill was recommitted to a Committee of the Whole—62 to 53, and made the order of the day for Monday next.
Mr.David R. Williams, from the committee appointed, on the seventh instant, “to inquire whether any, and, if any, what, additional provisions are necessary to prevent the importation of slaves into the Territories of the United States,” made the following report:
That the act of Congress, passed the 7th April, 1798, authorizing the establishment of a Government in the Mississippi Territory, permits slavery within that Territory, by excluding the last article of the ordinance of 13th July, 1787. The seventh section of this act prohibits, after the establishment of a Government, the importation of slaves from any port or place without the limits of the United States; of course, the right to import slaves from any place within the limits of the United States is not restricted.The act of 2d March, 1805, further providing for the Government of the Territory of Orleans, secures to its inhabitants “all the rights, privileges, and advantages, secured by the ordinance of 13th July, 1787, and now enjoyed by the people of the Mississippi Territory.” The importation of slaves, from any place within the limits of the United States, is one of those rights; consequently, the inhabitants of the Territory of Orleans may exercise it also.The tenth section of the act of 26th March, 1804, “erecting Louisiana into two Territories, and providing for the temporary government thereof,” prohibits the introduction of slaves into that Territory, from any place, “except by a citizen of the United States, removing into said Territory, for actual settlement, and being at the time of such removalbona fideowner of such slave or slaves.” This tenth section, being repugnant to the first section of the act of 2d March, 1805, was repealed by the last section of said act, which declares: “that so much of an act, entitled ‘An act erecting Louisiana into two Territories, and providing for the temporary government thereof,’ as is repugnant with this act, shall, from and after the first Monday of November next, be repealed.”The committee are in the possession of the fact, that African slaves, lately imported into Charleston, have been thence conveyed into the Territory of Orleans; and, in their opinion, this practice will be continued to a very great extent while there is no law to prevent it.Upon this view of the subject, the committee believe it is expedient to prohibit any slave or slaves, who may be hereafter imported into the United States, from being carried into any of the Territories thereof; they, therefore, respectfully recommend the following resolution:Resolved, That it shall not be lawful for any person or persons to import or bring into any of the Territories of the United States any slave or slaves that may hereafter be imported into the United States.
That the act of Congress, passed the 7th April, 1798, authorizing the establishment of a Government in the Mississippi Territory, permits slavery within that Territory, by excluding the last article of the ordinance of 13th July, 1787. The seventh section of this act prohibits, after the establishment of a Government, the importation of slaves from any port or place without the limits of the United States; of course, the right to import slaves from any place within the limits of the United States is not restricted.
The act of 2d March, 1805, further providing for the Government of the Territory of Orleans, secures to its inhabitants “all the rights, privileges, and advantages, secured by the ordinance of 13th July, 1787, and now enjoyed by the people of the Mississippi Territory.” The importation of slaves, from any place within the limits of the United States, is one of those rights; consequently, the inhabitants of the Territory of Orleans may exercise it also.
The tenth section of the act of 26th March, 1804, “erecting Louisiana into two Territories, and providing for the temporary government thereof,” prohibits the introduction of slaves into that Territory, from any place, “except by a citizen of the United States, removing into said Territory, for actual settlement, and being at the time of such removalbona fideowner of such slave or slaves.” This tenth section, being repugnant to the first section of the act of 2d March, 1805, was repealed by the last section of said act, which declares: “that so much of an act, entitled ‘An act erecting Louisiana into two Territories, and providing for the temporary government thereof,’ as is repugnant with this act, shall, from and after the first Monday of November next, be repealed.”
The committee are in the possession of the fact, that African slaves, lately imported into Charleston, have been thence conveyed into the Territory of Orleans; and, in their opinion, this practice will be continued to a very great extent while there is no law to prevent it.
Upon this view of the subject, the committee believe it is expedient to prohibit any slave or slaves, who may be hereafter imported into the United States, from being carried into any of the Territories thereof; they, therefore, respectfully recommend the following resolution:
Resolved, That it shall not be lawful for any person or persons to import or bring into any of the Territories of the United States any slave or slaves that may hereafter be imported into the United States.
The report was referred to the Committee of the Whole to-morrow.
The House resumed the consideration of the bill sent from the Senate, entitled “An act to empower George Rapp and his associates, of the Society of Harmony, to purchase certain lands;” and a motion being made further to amend the said bill by inserting, at the end thereof, the words following:
“And interest, at the rate of six per cent, per annum, commencing from the end of the four years aforesaid, shall be charged on the whole of the six last payments, until the same shall be received into the public Treasury:”
“And interest, at the rate of six per cent, per annum, commencing from the end of the four years aforesaid, shall be charged on the whole of the six last payments, until the same shall be received into the public Treasury:”
The question was taken that the House do agree to the said amendment, and resolved in the affirmative—yeas 62, nays 44.
Ordered, That the said amendments, together with the bill, be read the third time to-day.
The said bill, together with the amendments thereto, was read the third time; and, on the question that the bill, as amended, do pass, it passed in the negative—yeas 46, nays 46.
Mr.Speakerdeclaring himself with the nays. And so the said bill was rejected.
Mr.Findlaycalled up the bill for incorporating the Presbyterian Society in Georgetown. The bill was long, and was read by sections. One section authorized a lottery for finishing the church.
Mr.Clarkmoved to strike out the section; you would not convert your church into a gambling house. I never considered that religion of the best kind which was supported by lotteries.
Mr.Sloan.—I am for striking out. I never will consent to an act authorizing public gambling.
Mr.Clark.—Corporations of all kinds, but more particularly ecclesiastical corporations, are objects of my particular hatred. Religion I do not consider of this world. I am no enemy to it, however; I adore it. To try the principle of the bill, I move to strike out the first section.
Mr.Southard.—I can see no possible objection to an act of incorporation in this as well as other cases. There are many advantages a society of this nature cannot enjoy without incorporation. Donations from the wealthy, who often bequeath sums for the benefit of religion, cannot be held without such incorporation.
Mr.Sloan.—We have no acts of incorporation in the society in which I was brought up, (the Quakers,) yet we find no difficulty in the management of our affairs—no difficulty in receiving gifts. I abhor all ecclesiastical corporations. Congress never has, and I hope never will, stain its pages with an act of this sort.
Mr.Smilie.—I hope the gentleman from New Jersey will not frighten himself with the echo of his own words. No evil can result from this act. The opinion of the Quakers is, that no money ought to assist them in their passage to heaven; others believe that money is employed to the best advantage in this way; hence the Quakers never pay those who preach for them, while almost all other classes of Christians do. The gentleman from New Jersey surely does not wish to forbid a clergyman’s payment. I hope that citizens of different persuasions may all have a full enjoyment of their modes of religious worship.
Mr.Elmer.—There never was a nation without religious establishments. All sects, except the Quakers, pay their preachers; and if the preachers among the Quakers have not a direct salary, they find means to obtain something of that kind indirectly, though not from direct funds. Considered in a moral, political, and religious view, these acts of incorporation are highly necessary and proper for the well-being of society.
Mr.Clark.—This is the first request that has been made to Congress for a religious incorporation; if we check it now, we may check what may hereafter prove an immense evil. It is from small beginnings that great disasters usually rise. Should this bill pass, I foresee what may perhaps in time come to pass. I can foresee the practice of pious frauds. The priests dressed in their canonicals, attending the rich man on his dying bed, and urging the repenting sinner to part with a portion of his wealth for the good of the church, and for the obtainment of a certain passport to heaven.
Mr.Findlay.—This is an accommodation Congress only can grant, and which is enjoyed in all the States.
Mr.Nicholson.—I never knew an application of this kind to be refused in the State, a part of which I have the honor to represent. In the Legislature of that State, half a dozen applications of this sort would have been granted in the time we have already spent in this unnecessary and shameful debate. Why should we refuse? If a society of Hindoos in the District should make such an application, I should not think of refusing them. If the dying rich man believes the bestowment of a part of his wealth for the benefit of religion will be a deed rendering him more acceptable to heaven, shall he be deprived of this right to give, because another thinks otherwise?
Mr.Rhea, of Tennessee, moved to postpone the consideration of the bill till the 1st of May.
Mr.Smiliespoke against postponement.
Mr.Quincy.—I had not intended to open my mouth on a subject that appeared to me so plain; where our duty was so apparent; but the debate has taken so strange a turn that I must make a few remarks. This is a mere civil affair—religion has nothing to do with it, so far as we are concerned in granting or refusing the application. I never knew an application of this kind to be refused—it is an application for the grant of certain powers to a certain number of persons; it is like an application for the incorporationof a bank, or any thing similar. Congress have only to inquire whether or not the ends are proper; whether the powers asked are or are not likely to be injurious. The gentleman from Virginia (Mr.Clark) says, that incorporations of all kinds, particularly ecclesiastical, are objects of his great abhorrence. The objects of his abhorrence must then be very numerous, for they almost every where abound. In Massachusetts nothing can be more common. The incorporation of a religious society is not for the mere purpose of enabling such a society to receive the gifts that may be bequeathed them; the incorporation is for the purpose of enabling a society, or number of persons, to transact their business, to hold property, to sue and be sued, &c. Property they must hold, and, if not held as a corporate body, they must hold it as joint tenants—tenants in common—or they must have trustees to hold it for them, or a part must hold as trustees for the rest; and hence arise innumerable difficulties, litigations, and disagreements—difficulties that will not arise in corporate bodies. You have only to take care, when an act of incorporation is granted, that no powers be granted that may have an injurious effect.
Mr.Southard.—The incorporation of almost all societies is for the advantage of the public; the incorporation of religious bodies has ever been beneficial to morals and to society at large. It enables them to give and to receive justice; to sue and to be sued. The benefits of incorporation are innumerable; what were society without them? what are we but a corporate body?
The bill passed to a third reading by a large majority.
The bill to incorporate the Trustees of a Presbyterian Church in Georgetown was read a third time.
Mr.Elmersupported, and Messrs.Jackson,Sloan,Holland, andRhea, opposed the bill.
The question was taken by yeas and nays, and the bill passed—yeas 72, nays 40.
Mr.Crowninshield, from the Committee of Commerce and Manufactures, made a report on the petition of sundry inhabitants of Charlestown, Virginia, praying that said place may be made a port of entry and delivery.
The report is detailed, and assigns a variety of reasons against the expediency of granting the prayer of the petitioners, and concludes with a resolution that they have leave to withdraw their petition.
The House having taken the report into consideration—
Mr.Jacksonobserved that the facts detailed in the report were conceded. It was probable that there would never be a vessel entered at Charlestown from a foreign country. With regard to the success of the prayer of the petitioners, Mr. J. said he should not have been sanguine, but for a constitutional provision which he considered imperative. No port of entry existed in the western part of Virginia, in consequence of which, vessels sailing from Charlestown were obliged to pay duties at New Orleans. The constitutional provision, to which he alluded, was this: “No preference shall be given by any regulation of commerce or revenue to the ports of one State over those of another; nor shall vessels bound to or from one State be obliged to enter, clear, or pay duties in another.” Was it not obvious that a preference was given to the ports of one State over those of another by requiring the vessels of the one, to enter and clear in the ports of the other; and was it not also obvious that the latter part of the provision was equally violated? It would be a great convenience to the petitioners to give bonds and take out clearances in the neighborhood of the place where their vessels are built, instead of being obliged to go to a distance of 2,000 miles, where they would find themselves among strangers.
Mr.Crowninshieldobserved that there were several ports of entry already in Virginia from which vessels might clear without paying duties at New Orleans. He further observed that New Orleans and Natchez were not within the limits of a State, and therefore were not embraced by the constitutional provision referred to; and added that duties were only paid on the entry of vessels from a foreign country.
Mr.J. C. Smiththought there was sufficient plausibility in the remarks of the gentleman from Virginia, to give the subject a full discussion. He therefore moved a reference of the report to a Committee of the whole House on Monday, which was agreed to—yeas 59.
The House resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole on the bill from the Senate, providing for the payment of the witnesses on the trial of Samuel Chase.
Mr.J. C. Smithsaid, at the close of the last session, a bill providing for the payment of the witnesses on the part of the United States, had gone from the House to the Senate, and been disagreed to by them. The Senate on their part, had passed a bill providing for the payment of all the witnesses, to which the House had disagreed. A conference had taken place on the disagreeing votes of the Houses, and the bill had been lost from a want of concurrence. The consequence was, the witnesses still remained uncompensated; some of whom have sustained heavy expenses. Petitions received this session from several witnesses on the part of the prosecution, had been referred to the Committeeof Claims, who had reported a bill which was the same in substance with that adopted by the House the last session; the committee not considering themselves at liberty to depart from the principle then established by the House.
It was for the House to decide how long this unprofitable contest (for unprofitable it surely was to the witnesses) should be kept up. Mr. S. said he was not disposed to go into a consideration of the question, whether the expenses of an impeachment should in all cases be incurred by the Government. He would barely observe that the Senate had been unanimous; and if the House should adhere to the ground they had taken, no compensation would be allowed to the witnesses. He submitted it, whether, under these circumstances, it were proper to keep up such a conflict? It had so happened that many of the witnesses, summoned by the accused, had been used by the managers, and the process of summoning them had been similar on both sides. In the bill there was an omission to provide for the expenses incurred by the managers. If no other gentleman proposed an amendment, he should think it his duty to offer one, providing for these expenses. He hoped the committee would agree to the bill. Some gentlemen might think, by agreeing to it, they evinced an opinion of the guilt or innocence of the accused. But such a vote could not be viewed in this light. The House had exercised their constitutional right by voting an impeachment, while the Senate had exercised the same right in acquitting the accused. The same body who had acquitted, had sent down this bill, involving their opinion that the proposed compensation to witnesses was right. Indeed he considered the bill from the Senate as a taxation of costs by the court who sat on this occasion.
Mr.Macon, with a view to try the question, whether the House would agree to pay all the witnesses, moved to insert after the wordwitnessesthe words—“on behalf of the United States.” He said the history of this business given by the gentleman from Connecticut was correct. The accused had been acquitted by a constitutional majority, consisting of a minority of the Senate. It was not, he believed, the practice in any criminal court, of any State in the Union, for witnesses summoned by the defendant, to be paid by the State. The States, in many instances, pay their own witnesses, where the person accused is not convicted, but with respect to the conflict between the two Houses, he was convinced the decision of this House was correct; and that it accorded with the general usage throughout the United States. If there was an exception, he did not recollect it. It was true that one or the other House must give way, or the bill would be lost. He would much rather that it should be rejected by the disagreeing votes of the two Houses, than that it should pass as it then stood. If the Senate had offered this bill, it is equally true that the grand jury, who make a bill, have refused it. The two Houses stood on the same ground. One are the triers and the other the hearers. If Congress agree to pay all the expenses of an impeachment, the impeached may run the expenses to such an amount as to prevent a trial. Why pay the expenses in this case, if not in any other? Shall they be paid because this man is a judge, and not a man arraigned before a judge? When a judge is tried he deserves no more indulgence than a private individual, and though he is acquitted, the acquittal is not such as to convince the nation, or any other body of men, that he is innocent. It was not that kind of acquittal which an honest man would wish. It was constitutional, but not by a majority of the Senate. Are we, under these circumstances, obliged to pay the witnesses he has chosen to summon? Believing, as he did, the man guilty, and the charges in many instances supported, the payment of his witnesses appeared to him a very strange thing. In this, as in every other case, he was willing to yield to a constitutional decision, but he could never consent to pay the witnesses of the accused.
Mr.Alstonsaid the amendment went to try the question, whether the House would agree to pay all the witnesses summoned on the trial of Judge Chase. Before it was made, the honorable Speaker ought to have told the House whether they could determine which witnesses were summoned on the part of the United States, and which on the part of Judge Chase. From every thing which he had seen, (and he had examined all the documents on the subject,) he had found no data upon which to determine what witnesses had been summoned on one side or the other, unless from the recollection of gentlemen, by which he supposed the House would not consent to be governed. When the question was before the House the last session, he had expressed his doubts whether they ought to pay the witnesses of an accused man, whether he was acquitted or convicted; but he was now convinced that, until Congress passed a law, prescribing how witnesses are to be paid, they were bound to pay them. No such law had been passed. He would ask gentlemen learned in the law, whether a witness on the part of Judge Chase could demand compensation from him? Have we passed any law, prescribing how much shall be paid, or how it shall be done? No such law has been passed. Mr. A. said he thought gentlemen were carrying their prejudices too far in this instance. He had voted for five out of eight of the articles, but the Senate had acquitted him of all of them. He was contented with this decision, and so far as he was acquainted with the sentiments of those he represented, he believed they too were satisfied. It was not now a question how this principle should be settled. If a general law were brought before them, there was no doubt, but that, if a man so conducted himself as to bring himself to a trial, he should pay his own witnesses, provided such law declared howmuch they should be paid. The honorable Speaker had said there was not a State in the Union in which the witnesses of a person indicted and acquitted were paid by the State. Mr. A. said he believed, in Virginia, when a man was indicted and acquitted, he was not subject to the payment of costs. If this were true, one State at least, and that the largest in the Union, had set a different example; and if precedent was entitled to any influence, it was against the Speaker. Mr. A. said this, however, had no weight with him. The great objection with him was, that they could not discriminate the witnesses of the United States from those of the accused; and if they could ascertain them, there was no law prescribing how the latter should be paid by the accused.
Mr.Jacksonbelieved Congress bound to render compensation to the witnesses on the trial of Judge Chase, on the abstract principle of justice and right, as well as from precedent and practice. The argument of the honorable Speaker militated against the inference drawn by him. He says the accused may multiply witnesses to such an extent as to defeat a prosecution. If the proposition, however, be examined in all its bearings, it will be found to operate most severely, and almost exclusively, on the man impeached by the House of Representatives, no matter for what cause, or whether he is guilty or innocent. If the House are determined to destroy him, it is only necessary to vote an impeachment, which will impose upon him a ruinous burden. Mr. J. said he did not apply these remarks exclusively to the impeachment of Judge Chase. The Journal of the House would show that he was in favor of his impeachment. But as he had been acquitted by the constitutional tribunal, clothed with authority to pronounce him guilty or innocent—the dernier tribunal constituted for such cases—he did not consider himself justified to say, after their decision, that he was guilty. He held himself bound by the judicial decisions and laws of the country, though as an individual he might dissent from some of them. The United States might, in case a person acquitted on an impeachment is compelled to pay his witnesses, multiply charges embracing the whole life of the accused, and tracing him from the district of Maine to Georgia, so as to compel him, in order to refute the charges, to adduce ten times as many witnesses as would otherwise be necessary. The true rule is, that the court shall decide what witnesses are proper to be taxed in the costs, and what are not. The Senate, who in this instance are the court, have decided that all shall be taxed. They were perfectly competent to decide whether any witnesses of the accused were brought forward without sufficient cause, or whether they were essential to the defence. It is manifest, by the bill under consideration, that they have made the latter decision. The gentleman from North Carolina is correct in his statement of precedent. The uniform course in Virginia, is to tax the attendance of witnesses, who are paid out of the public treasury; and those on the part of the defendant in the same way as those on the part of the prosecution. This practice has been extended so far as to embrace the payment of witnesses from another State. In a late case, although as far as the opinion of the court could go, a man was declared guilty of the crime with which he was charged, yet, the jury having pronounced him innocent, a witness on his part, brought from Kentucky, was paid out of the public treasury. This is not the case where the individual is convicted. If he possess sufficient property, that is answerable for the expenses.
The Senate, undoubtedly, possess the right to say whether the witnesses adduced are necessary; and if, in any future case, improper witnesses shall be brought forward, they may refuse to tax them. This bill does not provide for all cases of impeachment, but is confined to the case of Samuel Chase. Mr. J. said he would submit whether it was proper or just to compel men at a great expense to attend at the seat of Government in an inclement season of the year without giving them a compensation. If a law had been previously passed prescribing that the witnesses of the accused should be paid by him, they would have required some assurance from him. But as no discrimination had been made between the witnesses, they came forward in full faith that the Government would allow them a liberal compensation.
Mr.Nicholsonsaid he had but a few observations to make on this subject: indeed, indisposition disabled him from making many. He considered this bill as calculated to establish a great principle—a principle whether, in all cases of impeachment, the United States are to bear the burden. It was not in reference to an individual that he was induced to advocate the amendment of his honorable friend, the Speaker, but because its effect would be to establish a principle that would hereafter govern in similar cases. If the principle were established that in all cases of impeachment the Government is to bear the expense, it will put it in the power of the individual impeached to increase the burden to any extent he pleases. And whenever a man shall be impeached, base enough to hate the Government under which he lives and holds an office, in a case which requires but two witnesses, he may summon two hundred. This bill will establish such a principle, and we shall in all future cases be told that the witnesses of the accused were paid in the case of Chase. It was for this reason, Mr. N. said, he advocated the amendment, and to convince the individual that subjected himself to an impeachment that he must suffer some pains and penalties. For it was not to be presumed that the House of Representatives would impeach any man unless there was some color for it—some reason to induce the nation at large to believe him guilty. An impeachment speaks the language of the nation, expressed through their representatives; and whenever a man in office conducts himselfso as to make the nation believe him guilty, it was not desirable to offer the protection held out in the bill, particularly when a majority in the other branch also believed him guilty.
But, gentlemen say, this is not the practice in the State courts; and we are told in Virginia, when a man is acquitted, the State pays the expense of his witnesses. Mr. N. said this might be so, though he did not know that it was; it was not so, however, in the courts of the United States. Any gentleman who doubted this, had only to refer to the treasurer’s accounts since the Government had been in operation, and he called upon any such gentleman to show a single charge for witnesses in cases of acquittal. It is not the practice in England, nor could it be made to appear by any document, that the witnesses summoned by Warren Hastings, though he was acquitted, had been paid by the Government. But admitting, for argument’s sake, the practice to be such in the United States as it is represented to be in the courts of Virginia, would that meet the present case? No. In Virginia there was a reciprocity. There, if a man was convicted, he paid all the costs, and if acquitted, the State pays them. But, in the United States, do we make the convicted pay the costs? Had the accused judge been convicted, would gentlemen advocate his paying all the costs? No. In that case he would have been scot free as to the payment of money, though he might have sunk in reputation. In Virginia there is a reciprocity; the convicted either pays the expenses of the prosecution or goes to jail; whereas, in this case, the United States are called upon to bear the whole burden. When Judge Pickering was convicted, was he called on to pay the costs? Such a thing was not then dreamed of. It was then considered proper that the United States should pay their own witnesses. The argument, therefore, fails. The only objection of any weight is that raised by the gentleman from North Carolina. It is said to be impossible to discriminate the witnesses. The gentleman says that he has examined the Journals of the Senate, and cannot find any discrimination. But has he looked at the Journals of impeachment, where it appears that such witnesses were sworn on the part of the United States, and such on the part of the accused? Besides, if this evidence were not on the journal, it could be got from the parties themselves, who could swear they were summoned on the part of the United States or the defendant. This was a common thing in the courts of Maryland, and Mr. N. supposed it was likewise so in other courts. He concluded his remarks by expressing a hope that the amendment would be adopted.
Mr.Earlysaid it was his misfortune the last session to differ with a majority of the House, and his present opinion was what it then was. His opinion was not founded either on general principles, or on the practice of the several States, or United States courts. It was founded on the peculiar circumstances of this case. Some of these circumstances had already been stated by gentlemen; but there were some important points of view in which they might be considered, which had not been noticed. It was true, as had been stated by the gentleman from North Carolina, that it could not be distinguished which witnesses were summoned on the part of the prosecution, and which on the part of the respondent, from an omission by the Senate, when they prescribed the form of the subpœna, to distinguish, as it is usual, for which party it was issued. This fact was abundantly proved by the form of the subpœna. How, then, were witnesses to know that they were summoned on the part of the United States, or the respondent? They could not know. There were no circumstances by which they could acquire such knowledge. The party did not serve his subpœnas in person, but they were all sent to the marshal of a given State. A number of them were taken out in blank, and sent to the marshals by post. The gentleman from Maryland has endeavored to obviate the force of this fact, by informing us that a discrimination may be made, by the circumstance of the fact on which side the witnesses were sworn. True; but no gentleman knows better than himself that the witnesses summoned on one side were, in some instances, sworn on the other; and he would call his recollection to the testimony given by Messrs. Tilghman and Rawle.
[Mr.Nicholsonhere explained, and contested the fact. Mr.Earlyagreed that these two witnesses had been summoned both on the part of the prosecution and the respondent.]
Mr.Earlysaid, whether he was correct or not as to the particular cases he had alluded to, he was not mistaken as to the general fact. The gentleman from Maryland had endeavored to obviate the force of this argument in another way, by representing that the witnesses might be called on to swear on which side they were sworn. But this could not be done, but by the passage of some law on the subject. There was no authority which would justify the Secretary of the Senate in demanding such an oath, and if the circumstance could be proved, there was no power, under any existing law, by which the witnesses could recover a compensation for their attendance. They were compelled to attend—by whom? By a branch of this Legislature, on pain of imprisonment in case of disobedience. Whence shall they be indemnified? Will any gentleman say they can recover from the respondent? If so, let them point to the law which authorizes such a recovery. Will they say it can be had under the common law? A majority of this House will not bear them out in the argument. For it is a standing principle with us, that the common law is not in force in the courts of the United States. But put this objection aside—how much shall they recover? Where is the law fixing their per diem allowance? There is a perfect chasm in the subject.
Mr. E. repeated that his opinion was governed by the peculiar circumstances of the case; bythe omission of the Senate to insert in the subpœna, on whose side the witnesses were summoned, or to provide for making any recovery from the accused; or how much, and where the recovery should be made. He considered the witnesses summoned, owing to this omission, as being without a remedy, from which resulted the obligation on the part of the Government, as they made the omission, to provide a remedy. The gentleman from Maryland, in noticing the observations relative to the practice of Virginia, stated, that if a similar reciprocity existed on impeachments, his objection to this bill in whole or in part would be done away. Mr. E. said, that in his opinion, this observation fortified the ground he had taken. If there were no reciprocity in this case, it was for want of a general provision. Let us then pass a law making this provision, and let it operate in all future cases. This would be equitable. But the want of reciprocity which arose with themselves, was no ground for omitting to make the only provision for the witnesses which the case allowed. When at the last session, in consequence of the disagreeing votes of the two Houses, a committee of conference had been appointed, he recollected that a distinguished member of the other branch, now absent in consequence of an unfortunate accident, took this ground—that the subpœna did not distinguish on which side the witnesses were summoned, and made a proposition that the bill should be so modified as to place the allowance made to the witnesses of the respondent on this peculiar ground. This proposition did not then obtain, but Mr. E. was still for taking such a course. He hoped the amendment of the honorable Speaker would not prevail; in which case he would move, by way of preamble to the bill, what would place the allowance on the peculiar ground he had stated, and thus remove the objections of the Speaker.
Mr.Nicholsonmade some explanation of what he had previously stated in regard to the practice of courts, and observed that a witness summoned on one side was not permitted to be sworn on the other, until he had been previously examined by the party summoning him. He also passed over the journal of impeachment, to show that the witnesses on the part of the prosecution had all been examined in the first instance, with a few exceptions, which were specially noted, before those on the part of the respondent were called.
Mr.Smilie, being of opinion that the question was not ripe for decision, moved that the committee should rise and ask leave to sit again.
This motion having prevailed, the committee rose, and the House adjourned.
A new member, to wit,Evan Alexander, returned to serve as a member of this House, for the State of North Carolina, in the place of Nathaniel Alexander, appointed governor of the said State, appeared, produced his credentials, was qualified, and took his seat in the House.
Mr.J. Randolphobserved that some time had elapsed since he gave notice that he should call up his resolution for amending the Constitution of the United States. The state of his health had not admitted of his taking his seat before this day. He therefore availed himself of the first opportunity to move that the House should resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole on the state of the Union, with the view of taking that resolution into consideration.
Mr.Mastersmoved a postponement.
TheSpeakersaid there could be no postponement of a subject referred to a Committee of the Whole on the state of the Union, as it was in order every day to take up business so referred.
Mr.J. Randolphsaid, if gentlemen were unprepared, he had no objection to waive his call until to-morrow.
TheSpeakerremarked that there could be no debate on the priority of business.
Mr.Conradmoved to discharge the Committee of the Whole from the further consideration of the resolution. He said he would briefly assign his reasons for this motion. The session had progressed and the season was fast approaching when every man of agricultural pursuits would be anxious to attend to them, unless detained by important business. He did not believe the proposed amendment to the constitution so important as to require immediate attention. He hoped, therefore, that it would be postponed until the next session, and that the way would thereby be paved for transacting the important national business that claimed their earliest attention.
TheSpeakersaid the first question was on the House resolving itself into a Committee of the Whole.
The question was taken on this motion, and carried—yeas 61.
Mr.Greggwas called to the Chair, and the resolution having been read, as follows: