The Hudson's Bay Posts—to-day.
In their Report of 28th June, 1872, the Governor and Committee report the details of the varied posts from Ocean to Ocean of the Hudson's Bay Company, as follows:—
Statement of Land belonging to the HUDSON'S BAY COMPANY, exclusive of their claim to one-twentieth of the Land set out for settlement in the "Fertile Belt," or the district coloured green in the accompanying Map [in front of this volume].
———————————————————————————————— | | Acres District | Post | of | | Land ———————————————————————————————— LAKE HURON | 1 | La Cloche | 6,400 TEMISCAMINQUE | 2 | Kakababeagino | 10 SUPERIOR | 3 | Long Lake | 10 UNITED STATES | 4 | Georgetown | 1,133 MANITOBA, or }| 5 | Fort Garry | 500 RED RIVER SETTLEMENT }| 6 | Lower Fort | 500 }| 7 | White Horse Plains | 500 MANITOBA LAKE | 8 | Oak Point | 50 PORTAGE LA PRAIRIE | 9 | | 1,000 LAC LA PLUIE | 10 | Fort Alexander | 500 | 11 | Fort Frances | 500 | 12 | Eagles Nest | 20 | 13 | Big Island | 20 | 14 | Lac du Bennet | 20 | 15 | Rat Portage | 50 | 16 | Shoal Lake | 20 | 17 | Lake of the Woods | 50 | 18 | White Fish Lake | 20 | 19 | English River | 20 | 20 | Hungry Hall | 20 | 21 | Trout Lake | 20 | 22 | Clear Water Lake | 20 | 23 | Sandy Point | 20 SWAN RIVER | 24 | Fort Pelly | 3,000 | 25 | Fort Ellice | 3,000 | 26 | Qu'Appelle Lakes | 2,500 | 27 | Touchwood Hills | 500 | 28 | Shoal River | 50 | 29 | Manitobah | 50 | 30 | Fairford | 100 | | | CUMBERLAND | 31 | Cumberland House | 100 | 32 | Fort la Corne | 3,000 | 33 | Pelican Lake | 50 | 34 | Moose Woods | 1,000 | 35 | The Pas | 25 | 36 | Moose Lake | 50 | 37 | Grand Rapid Portage | 100 | | |50 Acres | | |at each | | |end of | | |Portage SASKATCHEWAN | 38 | Edmonton House | 3,000 | 39 | Rocky Mountain House | 500 | 40 | Fort Victoria | 3,000 | 41 | St Paul | 3,000 | 42 | Fort Pitt | 3,000 | 43 | Battle River | 3,000 | 44 | Carlton House | 3,000 | 45 | Fort Albert | 3,000 | 46 | Whitefish Lake | 500 | 47 | Lac la Biche | 1,000 | 48 | Fort Assiniboine | 50 | 49 | Lesser Slave Lake | 500 | 50 | Lac St Anne | 500 | 51 | Lac la Nun | 500 | 52 | St Albert | 1,000 | 53 | Pigeon Lake | 100 | 54 | Old White Mud Fort | 50 | | | ENGLISH RIVER | 55 | Isle a la Crosse | 50 | 56 | Rapid River | 5 | 57 | Portage da Loche | 20 | 58 | Green Lake | 100 | 59 | Cold Lake | 10 | 60 | Deers Lake | 5 | | | YORK | 61 | York Factory | 100 | 62 | Churchill | 10 | 63 | Severn | 10 | 64 | Trout Lake | 10 | 65 | Oxford | 100 | 66 | Jackson's Bay | 10 | 67 | God's Lake | 10 | 68 | Island Lake | 10 | | | NORWAY HOUSE | 69 | Norway House | 100 | 70 | Berens River | 25 | 71 | Grand Rapid | 10 | 72 | Nelson's River | 10 | | | ALBANY 73 | Albany Factory | 100 | 74 | Martin's Falls | 10 | 75 | Osnaburg | 25 | 76 | Lac Seul | 500 | | | EASE MAIN | 77 | Little Whale River | 50 | 78 | Great Whale River | 50 | 79 | Fort George | 25 | | | MOOSE | 80 | Moose Factory | 100 | 81 | Hannah Bay | 10 | 82 | Abitibi | 10 | 83 | New Brunswick | 25 | | | RUPERT'S RIVER | 84 | Rupert's House | 50 | 85 | Mistassing | 10 | 86 | Temiskamay | 10 | 87 | Woswonaby | 10 | 88 | Meehiskun | 10 | 89 | Pike Lake | 10 | 90 | Nitchequon | 10 | 91 | Kamapiscan | 10 | | | KINOGUMISSEE | 92 | Matawagauinque | 50 | 93 | Kuckatoosh | 10 | | | LABRADOR | 94 | Fort Nascopie | 75 | 95 | Outposts do. | 25 | 96 | Fort Chimo (Ungava) | 100 | 97 | South River, Outposts | 30 | 98 | George's River | 50 | 99 | Whale River | 50 |100 | North's River | 25 |101 | False River | 25 | | | ATHABASCA |102 | Fort Chippewyan | 10 |103 | Fort Vermilion | 500 |104 | Fort Dunvegan | 50 |105 | Fort St John's | 20 |106 | Forks of Athabasca River | 10 |107 | Battle River | 5 |108 | Fond du Lac | 5 |109 | Salt River | 5 | | | MCKENZIE RIVER |110 | Fort Simpson | 100 |111 | Fort Liard | 300 |112 | Fort Nelson | 200 |113 | The Rapids | 100 |114 | Hay River | 20 |115 | Fort Resolution | 20 |116 | Fort Rae | 10 |117 | Fond du Lac | 10 |118 | Fort Norman | 10 |119 | Fort Good Hope | 10 |120 | Peel's River | 10 |121 | Lapierre's House | 10 |122 | Fort Halkett | 100 ————————————————————————————————
————————————————————————————————VANCOUVER'S ISLAND |123 | Victoria, including || | Town Lots, about | 70|124 | Esquimault (Puget's Sound || | Company Land | 2,300|125 | Uplands Farm | 1,125|126 | North Dairy Farm | 460| | |BRITISH COLUMBIA |127 | Fort Alexander | 100|128 | Fort George | 100|129 | Fraser's Lake | 100|130 | Stuart's Lake | 100|131 | McLeod's Lake | 100|132 | Connolly's Lake | 100|133 | Babine | 100|134 | Chilcotin | 100| | Five other places | 100|135 | Fort Dallas | 50|136 | Fort Berens | 50|137 | Fort Shepherd | 100|138 | Fort Simpson | 100|139 | Salmon River | 50|140 | Langley and Langley Farm | 2,220|141 | Yale, sundry small blocks ||142 | Hope | 5|143 | Kamloops | 1,976|144 | Similkameen | 1,140| | Barkerville ) | Town| | Quesnel ) | Lots————————————————————————————————
"Uncertain Sounds"
I may illustrate the consequences of vacillation and delay in the vigorous government of the Hudson's Bay territory, and in all distant parts of the Empire, by giving a verbatim copy of a Bill ordered to be "printed and introduced" in July, 1866, into the "House of Representatives" of the United States, at Washington, providing for relieving the Queen of her sovereign rights in the British territories between the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans. The only excuse—an excuse far from valid for so monstrous a proposal—was that no one knew what the British Government were inclined to do; and at Washington no one believed that John Bull would "make a fight of it;" while everyone knew that if a similar Bill, with the object of enabling the Southern States to come under the dominion of the Queen, had been introduced into the British House of Commons, the United States Ambassador "to the Court of St. James'" would have been recalled—to begin with. The British Ambassador took no notice, made no remonstrance; but the advent of Mr. Disraeli to power discouraged such outrages, and led in the following year to the passing of the Act for Confederation. In printing this Bill, my object is to show the mischief, mischief which half-a-dozen times in my lifetime has placed before my countrymen the alternative of ignominious concessions or war between English-speaking people, of "uncertain sounds." It is essential to continued peace, trade and prosperity, that it should be known to all the world that the broad lands between the two great oceans are an integral part of the Empire; that they will never be parted with without a struggle, in which all our forces will be amply used; and that either invasion, or the insidious agitations which from time to time are hatched in the United States with an eye to rebellion, will be put down by force.
Here is this insulting document printed verbatim. I challenge the quotation of any similar outrage on the part of any civilized nation at peace with the Empire attacked:—
"[Printer's No., 266."39TH CONGRESS, 1ST SESSION."H. R. 754."IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES."JULY 2, 1866."Read twice, referred to the Committee on Foreign Affairs, and orderedto be printed."Mr. BANKS, on leave, introduced the following Bill:"A BILL
"For the admission of the States of Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, CanadaEast, and Canada West, and for the organization of the Territories ofSelkirk, Saskatchewan, and Columbia.
"Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That the President of the United States is hereby authorized and directed, whenever notice shall be deposited in the Department of State that the Governments of Great Britain and the Provinces of New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, Prince Edward Island, Newfoundland, Canada, British Columbia, and Vancouver's Island have accepted the proposition hereinafter made by the United States, to publish by proclamation that, from the date thereof, the States of Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Canada East, and Canada West, and the Territories of Selkirk, Saskatchewan, and Columbia, with limits and rights as by this Act defined, are constituted and admitted as States and Territories of the United States of America.
"SEC. 2.And be it further enacted, That the following articles are hereby proposed, and from the date of the proclamation of the President of the United States shall take effect, as irrevocable conditions of the admission of the States of Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Canada East, and Canada West, and the future States of Selkirk, Saskatchewan, and Columbia, to wit:
"All public lands not sold or granted; canals, public harbors, light- houses, and piers; river and lake improvements, railway stocks, mortgages, and other debts due by railway companies to the provinces; custom-houses and post-offices, shall vest in the United States; but all other public works and property shall belong to the State governments respectively, hereby constituted, together with all sums due from purchasers or lessees of lands, mines, or minerals at the time of the union.
"In consideration of the public lands, works, and property vested as aforesaid in the United States, the United States will assume and discharge the funded debt and contingent liabilities of the late provinces, at rates of interest not exceeding five per centum, to the amount of eighty-five million seven hundred thousand dollars, apportioned as follows: to Canada West, thirty-six million five hundred thousand dollars; to Canada East, twenty-nine million dollars; to Nova Scotia, eight million dollars; to New Brunswick, seven million dollars; to Newfoundland, three million two hundred thousand dollars; and to Prince Edward Island, two million dollars; and in further consideration of the transfer by said provinces to the United States of the power to levy import and export duties, the United States will make an annual grant of one million six hundred and forty-six thousand dollars in aid of local expenditures, to be apportioned as follows: To Canada West, seven hundred thousand dollars; to Canada East, five hundred and fifty thousand dollars; to Nova Scotia, one hundred and sixty-five thousand dollars; to New Brunswick, one hundred and twenty-six thousand dollars; to Newfoundland, sixty-five thousand dollars; to Prince Edward Island, forty thousand dollars.
"For all purposes of State organization and representation in the Congress of the United States, Newfoundland shall be part of Canada East, and Prince Edward Island shall be part of Nova Scotia, except that each shall always be a separate representative district, and entitled to elect at least one member of the House of Representatives, and except, also, that the municipal authorities of Newfoundland and Prince Edward Island shall receive the indemnities agreed to be paid by the United States in Article II.
"Territorial divisions are established as follows:—(1) New Brunswick, with its present limits; (2) Nova Scotia, with the addition of Prince Edward Island; (3) Canada East, with the addition of Newfoundland and all territory east of longitude eighty degrees and south of Hudson's Strait; (4) Canada West, with the addition of territory south of Hudson's Bay and between longitude eighty degrees and ninety degrees; (5) Selkirk Territory, bounded east by longitude ninety degrees, south by the late boundary of the United States, west by longitude one hundred and five degrees, and north by the Arctic circle; (6) Saskatchewan Territory, bounded east by longitude one hundred and five degrees, south by latitude forty-nine degrees, west by the Rocky Mountains, and north by latitude seventy degrees; (7) Columbia Territory, including Vancouver's Island, and Queen Charlotte's Island, and bounded east and north by the Rocky Mountains, south by latitude forty-nine degrees, and west by the Pacific Ocean and Russian America. But Congress reserves the right of changing the limits and subdividing the areas of the western territories at discretion.
"Until the next decennial revision, representation in the House ofRepresentatives shall be as follows:—Canada West, twelve members;Canada East, including Newfoundland, eleven members; New Brunswick, twomembers; Nova Scotia, including Prince Edward Island, four members.
"The Congress of the United States shall enact, in favour of the proposed Territories of Selkirk, Saskatchewan, and Columbia, all the provisions of the Act organizing the Territory of Montana, so far as they can be made applicable.
"The United States, by the construction of new canals, or the enlargement of existing canals, and by the improvement of shoals, will so aid the navigation of the Saint Lawrence river and the great lakes that vessels of fifteen hundred tons burden shall pass from the Gulf of Saint Lawrence to Lakes Superior and Michigan:Provided, That the expenditure under this article shall not exceed fifty millions of dollars.
"The United States will appropriate and pay to 'The European and North American Railway Company of Maine' the sum of two millions of dollars upon the construction of a continuous line of railroad from Bangor, in Maine, to Saint John's, in New Brunswick:Provided, That said 'The European and North American Railway Company of Maine' shall release the Government of the United States from all claims held by it as assignee of the States of Maine and Massachusetts.
"To aid the construction of a railway from Truro, in Nova Scotia, to Riviere du Loup, in Canada East, and a railway from the city of Ottawa, by way of Sault Ste. Marie, Bayfield, and Superior, in Wisconsin, Pembina, and Fort Garry, on the Red River of the North, and the valley of the North Saskatchewan river, to some point on the Pacific Ocean north of latitude forty-nine degrees, the United States will grant lands along the lines of said roads to the amount of twenty sections, or twelve thousand eight hundred acres, per mile, to be selected and sold in the manner prescribed in the Act to aid the construction of the Northern Pacific Railroad, approved July two, eighteen hundred and sixty-two, and Acts amendatory thereof; and in addition to said grants of lands, the United States will further guarantee dividends of five per centum upon the stock of the Company or Companies which may be authorized by Congress to undertake the construction of said railways:Provided, That such guarantee of stock shall not exceed the sum of thirty thousand dollars per mile, and Congress shall regulate the securities for advances on account thereof.
"The public lands in the late provinces, as far as practicable, shall be surveyed according to the rectangular system of the General Land Office of the United States; and in the Territories west of longitude ninety degrees or the western boundary of Canada West, sections sixteen and thirty-six shall be granted for the encouragement of schools; and after the organization of the Territories into States, five per centum of the net proceeds of sales of public lands shall be paid into their treasuries as a fund for the improvement of roads and rivers.
"The United States will pay ten millions of dollars to the Hudson BayCompany in full discharge of all claims to territory or jurisdiction inNorth America, whether founded on the charter of the Company or anytreaty, law, or usage.
"It shall be devolved upon the Legislatures of New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, Canada East, and Canada West, to conform the tenure of office and the local institutions of said States to the Constitution and laws of the United States, subject to revision by Congress.
"SEC. 3.And be it further enacted, That if Prince Edward Island and Newfoundland, or either of those provinces, shall decline union with the United States, and the remaining provinces, with the consent of Great Britain, shall accept the proposition of the United States, the foregoing stipulations in favour of Prince Edward Island and Newfoundland, or either of them, will be omitted; but in all other respects the United States will give full effect to the plan of union. If Prince Edward Island, Newfoundland, Nova Scotia, and New Brunswick shall decline the proposition, but Canada, British Columbia, and Vancouver Island shall, with the consent of Great Britain, accept the same, the construction of a railway from Truro to Riviere du Loup, with all stipulations relating to the maritime provinces, will form no part of the proposed plan of union, but the same will be consummated in all other respects. If Canada shall decline the proposition, then the stipulations in regard to the Saint Lawrence canals and a railway from Ottawa to Sault Ste. Marie, with the Canadian clause of debt and revenue indemnity, will be relinquished. If the plan of union shall only be accepted in regard to the north western territory and the Pacific Provinces, the United States will aid the construction, on the terms named, of a railway from the western extremity of Lake Superior, in the State of Minnesota, by way of Pembina, Fort Garry, and the valley of the Saskatchewan, to the Pacific coast, north of latitude forty-nine degrees, besides securing all the rights and privileges of an American territory to the proposed territories of Selkirk, Saskatchewan, and Columbia."
So much for an outrage of a character unheard of and unparalleled. It was the result of "uncertain sounds;" of "duffer" government.
Let me give some illustrations. Before we began the, finally successful, movement for the Intercolonial Railway, the confederation of the Provinces of North America, and the final completion of a railway binding the coasts of the Atlantic and Pacific together, the Right Hon. C. B. Adderley, M.P., wrote a "letter to the Right Hon. B. Disraeli, M.P., on the present relations of England with the Colonies." It was a skinflint document, and here are a couple of quotations:—
Page 57.—"I would have the Canadian Government, in the right time and manner, informed that after a. certain date, unless war were going on, they would have to provide for their own garrisons, as well as all their requisite peace establishments, as they might deem fit; and that they should be prepared to hold their own in case of foreign attack, at least till the forces of the Empire could come to their aid."
Page 50.—"Let Canada, however, by all means look to England in the hour of peril also; but if the sight of English red-coats, at all times, has become a needful support of Canadian confidence, and English pay has ceased to be resented as a symptom of dependence, we must bow humbly under the conviction that Canada is no longer inhabited by men like those who conquered her."
Then I must quote my revered friend, Mr. Cobden, who, addressing his relative, Colonel Cole (at one time administrator of New Brunswick), on the 20th March, 1865, only thirteen days before his ever-to-be-lamented death, wrote about Canada: "We are two peoples to all intents and purposes, and it is a perilous delusion to both parties to attempt to keep up a sham connection and dependence, which will snap asunder if it should ever be put to the strain of stem reality. It is all very well for our cockney newspapers to talk of defending Canada at all hazards. It would be just as possible for the United States to sustain Yorkshire in a war with England as for us to enable Canada to contend against the United States. It is simply an impossibility. We must not forget that the only serious danger of a quarrel between these two neighbours arises from the connection of Canada with this country. In my opinion it is for the interest of both that we should, as speedily as possible, sever the political thread by which we are, as communities, connected, and leave the individuals on both sides to cultivate the relations of commerce and friendly intercourse as with other nations." … "There is, I think, an inherent weakness in the parody of our old English constitution, which is performed on the miniature scenes of the Colonial capitals, with their speeches from the throne, votes of confidence, appeals to the country, changes of ministry, &c., and all about such trumpery issues that the game at last becomes ridiculous in the eyes of both spectators and actors."
Speaking in the House of Commons on the second reading of the British North America Bill, in 1867, Mr. Bright said: "Is this new State—or this new nation, as I think Lord Monck described it—to be raised up under the authority of an Act of Parliament—is everything to be done for it? Is it intended to garrison its fortresses by English troops? At present there are, I believe, in the Province 12,000 or 15,000 men. There are persons in this country, and there are some also in the North American Provinces, who are ill-natured enough to say that not a little of the loyalty that is said to prevail in Canada has its price. I think it is natural and reasonable to hope that there is in that country a very strong attachment to this country. But if they are constantly to be applying to us for guarantees for railways, and for fortresses, and for works of defence; if everything is to be given to a nation independent in everything except Lord Monck and his successors, and except in the contributions we make for these public objects, then I think it would be far better for them, and for us—cheaper for us, and less demoralising for them—that they should become an independent State, and maintain their own fortresses, fight their own cause, and build up their own future, without relying upon us. And when we know, as everybody knows, that the population of Canada, family for family, is in a much better position as regards the comforts of home than family for family are in the great bulk of the population of this country—I say the time has come when it ought to be clearly understood that the taxes of England are no longer to go across the ocean to defray expenses of any kind within the confederation which is about to be formed. The Right Honorable gentleman the Under-Secretary of the Colonies (Mr. Adderley) has never been an advocate for great expenditure in the Colonies by the Mother Country. On the contrary, he has been one of the members of this House who have distinguished themselves by what I will call an honest system to the Mother Country, and what I believe is a wise system to the Colonies. But I think that when a measure of this kind is being passed, having such stupendous results upon the population of these great Colonies, we have a right to ask that there should be some consideration for the Revenue and for the taxpayers of this country."
In speaking on the Canada Railway Loan Bill in the House on the 28th March, 1867, Mr. Gladstone, alluding to Canada, said: "We have carried it to this point, that as far as regards the Administration, I believe it may be said that the only officer appointed by the Colonial Secretary is the Governor; and I believe there cannot be a doubt that if it were the well-ascertained desire of the Colonies to have the appointment of their own Governor, the Imperial Parliament would at once make over to them that power."
I may, perhaps without presumption, here add two short speeches of mine in the House of Commons: one, in reply to Mr. Bright in the discussion on the Confederation, or British North America Bill, on the 28th February, 1867; the other, in reply to Mr. Lowe, on the Canada Loan Bill, on the 28th March, 1867.
Language affecting the relations between the Mother Country and the Colonies, such as I have quoted, does infinite mischief—more mischief than those who do not mix with the people can understand. It is as bad in its consequences as the unfortunate policy of Mr. Gladstone: the "Majuba Hill" policy.
[Hansard, vol. 185, page 1187, Feb. 28, 1867.]
"Mr. Watkin said he fully concurred in the statement of the right hon. gentleman (Sir John Pakington), that the House of Representatives and the Senate of Nova Scotia had approved the scheme of Confederation. The representative body approved it in 1861—not 1862, as the right hon. gentleman the First Lord of the Admiralty had stated.
"There was a general election in 1863, and the Prime Minister (Mr. Tupper) went through the country preaching this Confederation of the Provinces. It was brought under the notice of the electors at every polling-booth, and at every hustings the issue was distinctly raised. Well, after that general election, the plan of the Government was sustained by an enormous majority in the House of Representatives, and delegates were sent to the Conference to carry out the plan. If there was any question on which the British North American Provinces not only had enjoyed an opportunity of expressing, but had actually expressed, opinion, it was on this very question of Confederation.
"Mention having been made of the name of Mr. Howe, whose acquaintance he had the honour of possessing, he might state his own conviction that a man of purer patriotism, or one who had rendered more able and distinguished service to the Crown of this country, did not exist. He remembered the speech delivered by Mr. Howe some years ago at Detroit on the question of whether the Reciprocity Treaty should be continued or not; and he believed it was in no small degree owing to that remarkable speech—one of the most eloquent ever heard—that the unanimous verdict in favour of continuing the treaty had been arrived at. It was matter of surprise and regret to him that the valuable and life-long services of Mr. Howe had not received recognition at the hands of either the late or the present Government.
"The hon. member for Birmingham seemed dissatisfied with the phrase used by Lord Monck respecting the establishment of a new nation. Now he (Mr. Watkin) supported the Confederation, not as the establishment of a new nation, but as the confirmation of an existing nation. It meant this, that the people of the confederated colonies were to remain under the British Crown—or it meant nothing. He joined issue with those who said, 'Let the Colonies stand by themselves.' He dissented from the view that they were to separate from the control of the British Crown the territory of this enormous Confederation. But there was a vast tract beyond Canada, extending to the Pacific; and the House should bear in mind that more than half of North America was under British dominion.
"Did the hon. member (Mr. Bright) think that it was best for civilization and for public liberty that this half of the Continent should be annexed to the United States? If that were the opinion of the hon. gentleman, he did not think it was the opinion of that House. Every man of common sense knew that these territories could not stand by themselves; they must either be British or American—under the Crown or under the Stars and Stripes. The hon. member for Birmingham (Mr. Bright) might think that we should be the better for losing all territorial connection with Canada; but he could not agree with that doctrine. Extent and variety were amongst the elements of Imperial greatness.
"Descending to the lowest and most material view of the subject, he did not believe that, as a mere money question, the separation would be for our interest.
"Take, again, the question of defence. Our North American possessions had a coast line of 1,000 miles on the east, and 800 on the west, and possessed some of the finest harbours on that Continent, and a mercantile marine entitling it to the third rank among maritime nations. The moment these advantages passed into the hands of the United States, that country would become the greatest naval power in the world. In preserving commercial relations with the United States, the Canadian frontier line of 3,000 miles was likewise extremely useful.
"As long as British power and enterprise extended along one side of this boundary line, and as long as the tariff of extremely light duties was kept up by us, and that imposed only for the purposes of revenue, it would be impossible for the United States to pursue what might be called a Japanese policy.
"If England, therefore, desired to maintain her trade, even apart from other considerations, it was desirable for her to maintain her North American possessions.
They had lately had to pass through a cotton famine, and they had been taught the inconvenience of the prohibition of the export of cotton by the American Government.
"A large proportion of the corn imported into this country was brought from America, and in what state would England find herself if all the food exports of North America were placed under the control of the Government of Washington? If the frontier line became the sea coast, what might be looked for then? Scarcely three years had elapsed since Mr. Cobden declared that if there had not been a plentiful harvest in America he did not know where food could have been procured for the people of this country.
"Now, the corn-growing fields of Upper Canada alone ranked fifth in point of productiveness. Did England not wish to preserve this vast storehouse? Suppose that Canada belonged to America: in the event of a quarrel with England there was nothing to prevent the United States from declaring that not an ounce of food should leave its territories, which would then extend from the Arctic regions to the Gulf of Mexico. He had hoped that upon this Bill, not only both sides of the House, but every section of the House, might have been found in unison.
"It was no use blinking the question. This would not be a decision affecting Canada merely. We had sympathies alike with Australia and the other Colonies. If it were seriously proposed that England should denude herself of her possessions—give up India, Australia, North America, and retire strictly within the confines of her own Islands, to make herself happy there,—the same result might be brought about much more easily by those who wished it. They might become citizens of some small country like Holland, and realize their ideas of happiness in a moment. But he hesitated to believe that the people of England did really favour any such policy.
"If any one were to hoist the motto, 'Severance of the Colonies from the Crown,' he did not believe that one per cent. of the people would adopt it. He believed that the people of England felt a deep attachment to their Empire, and that not a barren rock over which the flag of England had ever waved would be abandoned by them without a cogent and sufficient reason. Every argument used in support of the necessity of giving up the Provinces, which lay within eight days of our own shores, would apply with equal force in the case of Ireland, if the people of the United States chose to demand possession.
"Was this country prepared to give up Gibraltar, Malta, Heligoland, all its outlying stations, merely because some strong power took a fancy to them? He did not believe that the people of England would ever act in such a spirit.
"As to the argument of expense, if Canada chose to pick a quarrel on her own account, clearly she ought to pay the bill; but if she were involved in war on Imperial considerations, then he maintained that the Imperial revenues might properly be resorted to.
"The British Empire was one and indivisible, or it was nothing. And what was the principle upon which the United States acted? If any portion of the territory of the Union was touched, were there one of its citizens who would not be ready and forward to defend it? Should we then be less determined to maintain intact the greatness and the glory of the British Empire?
"He, for one, would not give up the opinion that Englishmen wereprepared to maintain, in its integrity, the greatness and glory of theEmpire; and that such a feeling would find a hearty response in thatHouse."
"[March28, 1867.]
"In reply to Mr. Lowe and others, "Mr. Watkin said that, in following the right hon. gentleman (Mr. Lowe), he felt very much as a quiet Roman citizen must have done on passing the chief gladiator in the street— inclined to pass over to the other side, and to have nothing to say to him, for fear of the consequences.
"But some years ago he was requested by the late Duke of Newcastle to make inquiries, which convinced him that the hobgoblin fears expressed that night in regard to the construction of this 375 miles of railway were unfounded.
"Let hon. members remember that Her Majesty's American dominions extended over an area equal to one-eighth of the habitable globe. This Railway gave us communication, not only with Canada and with 10,000 miles of American railways, but with the vast tract of British territory extending across to the Pacific. The consequence of making this Railway would be, that two days would be saved in going from England to the northern continent of America, including the great corn- growing district of the West.
"If the House had seen, as he had seen, the Canadian volunteers turn out in bitter winter to repel a threatened invasion, without a red-coat near them, they would think that the right hon. gentleman's taunts might have been spared.
"The British Provinces had taxed themselves 360,000_l_. a-year for the execution of these works, which Lord Durham had proposed in 1838, with the object of binding together, by the means of physical communication, the varied sections of the Queen's American dominions.
"The evidence of every military man, including Sir John Michell, the present Commander-in-Chief in Canada, was that this Railway was absolutely necessary for the military defence of the Colonies. It was, however, to be defended not only on that ground, but upon the ground of its great commercial advantages.
"There were now in the Government offices memorials from many of the large towns in the three kingdoms, concurring in the commercial necessity and advantages of the measure which the House was now asked to agree to. Therefore, originating as it did with Lord Durham,— sanctioned as it was by Lord Grey's proposals of 1851—adopted by the late and present Governments,—demanded for purposes of defence, as also for the more genial and generous objects of commerce and peace,— he hoped the House would support the construction of the Railway by a guarantee, which would not cost this country a shilling."
The motion for giving the guarantee was carried by 247 votes to 67—or by a majority of 180.
"Governor Dallas."
I should do injustice to my own loving memory of the man, if I did not publish some letters from the late Governor Dallas, which are, to my mind, especially interesting. Though some of his views, in 1863, as to the value of the Hudson's Bay lands, and their settlement, did not accord with my own, yet his experience should plead against mine. No one was more pleased than he to find that the country was in process— after many delays, over which he and I used to groan in concert—of successful colonization.
"MONTREAL, "17th August, 1863.
"With reference to our late conversations upon various matters connected with the past and future of the Hudson's Bay Company, I take the liberty of calling your attention to several points of the business requiring immediate attention, in a more explicit manner than I may have done in desultory conversation.
"The government of the territory is come almost to a dead-lock in the Red River Settlement, and nothing short of direct administration under the authority of the Crown will, in my opinion, remedy the evil. Two prisoners have been, in separate instances, forcibly rescued from jail, and they, with about thirty to fifty others implicated in the riots, are still at large, fostering discontent, and creating great disquiet. Their secret instigator controls the only paper published in the settlement, and its continued attacks upon the Company find a greedy ear with the public at large, both in the settlement and in Canada. The position of those in authority is so disagreeable that I have had great difficulty in persuading the magistrates to continue to act. Mr. William Mactavish, Governor of Assiniboin, has resigned his post, and I have only been restrained from following his example, for a short time, in the hope that a remedy would speedily be applied, and that I should be relieved from the unfair position in which I find myself placed, with all the responsibility, and the semblance of authority over a vast territory, but unsupported, if not ignored, by the Crown. In the absence of a just grievance, the cry of 'the Company' is quite a sufficient watchword amongst the ignorant and discontented.
"The open malcontents are few in number, and I had ample volunteer force at my back to protect the jail and support my authority, but, as I have already explained to you, I could exercise but little control over my friends, who were keen for what would have ended in a free fight, with the certain death of the sheriff and ringleaders on both sides, and led to endless animosities. It required more resolution on my part to follow the course I did, than to have resisted the rioters. For details of the transactions I refer you to my official letters to the Board, which you will find in the Hudson's Bay House.
"Of the settlers, the greater number, including the French Canadians, are our staunch personal friends, while the openly disaffected are but few. There is still, however, a considerable portion of the people who, though taking no open part, are yet dissatisfied. Some of these last named have real or imaginary grievances, of long standing to complain of, and nothing but the extinction of the governing powers of the Company will satisfy them. I came amongst them as free from prejudice as you can be, and determined to redress every grievance and meet their wishes in every reasonable way, but to no avail. I have already transmitted to the Board evidence in the 'Nor' Wester,' that our unpopularity arises entirely from thesystemof government, and not from any faults in its administrators.
"A continuance of this state of matters may lead to the formation of a provisional government by the people themselves, and to annexation to the United States, as have been threatened. With the opening up of the St. Paul's route, there has been a large increase of the 'American' element in the settlement; and in the enclosed copy of the 'Nor' Wester' of the 22nd July, you will observe that the United States Government is quietly recruiting for its army in British territory. This matter, I trust, may be in the meantime brought to the notice of the proper authorities pending further information upon my return to Red River.
"The trust which the Board has placed in my hands, and the confidence reposed in my ability to guide you in forming your plans for the future, impose on me no little responsibility and anxiety. I must relieve my shoulders of this weight by stating plainly my belief that the opening up of the country by waggon road and telegraph, and by the encouragement of settlement, must prove so far detrimental to the current commercial business of the Company as to render it difficult, if not impossible, to provide a fair dividend upon the portion of its capital embarked in the trade. I do not, however, the less recognize the necessity of opening up the country and its communications. It is not at all clear to my mind how you are to secure a remunerative dividend upon the extra sum to be embarked in the erection of the telegraph, formation of roads, &c., &c. In a commercial point of view, I do not consider it safe to enter upon these extended operations till secure of a sufficient subsidy from the different Governments interested.
"Upon a mature consideration of the whole subject, I entirely concur in the views expressed by Mr. Johnstone in his letter, of which I have already sent only anextractto Sir Edmund Head, viz., that with the government of the country the territorial right should also revert to the Crown, upon whatever terms might be arranged. Anything short of a full measure of this sort would fail to satisfy the settlers and the public at large, who seem inclined to view with distrust the present position of Her Majesty's Government in its supposed alliance with the new Board of Direction.
"It is a question for consideration whether the northern region of the country beyond the limits of probable settlement should not still remain under the control of the Company, with such a monopoly of trade as would induce them to undertake the responsibility of managing the Indian tribes, and excluding the introduction of ardent spirits. I make this suggestion solely on behalf of the Indians, upon whom free intercourse with white men will, in my opinion, be ultimately destructive.
"Having already impressed upon you the necessity of procuring from Her Majesty's Secretary of State for the Colonies such instructions to the Governors of Vancouver's Island and British Columbia as may put an end to all proceedings against us in the local courts, and place us in possession of proper titles to our lands, I have now, in reminding you of the importance of the matter, to hand you the enclosed extract of a private letter which I received yesterday from Mr. D. Mactavish, senior member of our Board of Management in Victoria, which speaks for itself.
"Though I have marked this communication 'private,' I shall be obliged by your laying it before Sir Edmund Head, as I am so very hurried that I have not time at present to write officially to the Board.
"I remain, dear Sir, yours faithfully,"A. G. DALLAS.
"E. WATKIN, Esq., London.
"P.S.—The undoubted discoveries of gold diggings in the Saskatchewan and other portions of the territory is another strong reason why the land should revert to and be administered by the Crown. Large grants to the Company would be looked upon with great disfavour by the public.
Extract private letter from D. Mactavish, Esq., to A. G. Dallas, datedVictoria, Vancouver's Island, 13th July, 1863:—
"We hear nothing of our land question from the Governor, and there is no getting him to give titles for the Company's lands at Hope, Yale, and Langley. Orders have come out for the Royal Engineers to go to England immediately after the new year, so that Colonel Moodie and his staff of surveyors will do no more work, their time being so nearly up—this is worrying, but cannot be helped. The Governor has so much to do, making roads and so forth in British Columbia, that there is no drawing his attention to our matters, and when we do call on him to act, his invariable answer is, that he cannot get Moodie to do anything, and I daresay there is some truth in it, as it is shrewdly surmised that His Excellency has had more to do with the recall of the Engineers home than anyone else, and they all feel that they are leaving under a cloud."
"MONTREAL, "17_th Augt._ 1863.
"Along with this I send you a letter which, though marked private, treats only of our affairs, in such a manner that it may be laid before the Duke of Newcastle. It ought, I think, also to be laid before Sir Edmund Head, and I shall refer him to it for my views. It is very important thatthe wholeof Johnstone's letter, and of my account of affairs at Red River, in regard to the Corbett riots, addressed to the Board, should be read along with the above letter. I do not think that we can ever make anything out of our lands, [Footnote: Experience has shown that this was an error.] and I am therefore strongly of opinion that they should be transferred to the Government upon certain terms, excepting only such lands around our forts as may be necessary for our business, and our farms, &c. in actual occupation.
"Although a great outcry has been raised against us on account of our being a 'stop in the way,' and enjoying a monopoly of trade, the cry is groundless. It may, therefore, be well for you to know that for a number of years past we have enjoyedno monopolyof trade whatever, and that there is no impediment to the settlement of the country by any one who pleases. A settler may squat wherever he thinks fit, without question, or being called upon to pay for lands yet unsurveyed, and of which the Indian titles are not yet extinguished. The small portion of surveyed land in the district of Assiniboin has been all long since occupied, though not paid for. With a recognized Government, there would be no difficulty in obtaining payment for these lands from the occupiers.
"In erecting the telegraph, the Indian titles to the land ought to be extinguished by annual payments; but the absence of a recognized and respected Government will be of itself a great bar to the successful erection of the apparatus, and the preserving it and the various stations in good order. Though, by increased energy and supervision, the fur trademayfor a time be maintained, yet you must notcount uponincreased profits, as with the opening up of the country the furs are costing us more, and many of our posts are so distant that they cannot, from that and a variety of causes, be placed all at once upon a proper footing, and it is very difficult to exercise a proper supervision over them. It behoves the Company, therefore, to look out for other sources of profit. One of these is that of banking operations, both here and at Red River, and probably also at Victoria and at St. Paul, or other suitable locality in the U. S. On this head I may again address you from Red River, and Mr. Hopkins will afford you every information in regard to the prospects at this place, which are represented to bevery great, when you come out in September.
"I am just about starting for Lake St. John's on the Saguenay River, and shall be absent about ten days. Upon my return I shall be ready to return to Red River—say, about the 1st September.
"Hoping you have had a pleasant passage, believe me,"Yours very truly,"E. WATKIN, Esq., London.
"P.S.—I do not see how the Company can make anything out of placer gold diggings in such a country. The miners must be encouraged, and mining licences cannot be expected to do more than pay the cost of collection, magistracy, police, &c. The surrender of all this territory to the Crown, however, is a question to be dealt with by the Board. My aim is to disabuse you of the idea that the Company can of itself turn the territory to profit by sale of lands, mining rights, making roads, telegraph, &c.
"MONTREAL, "18_th August,_ 1863.
"I left New York the evening of the day I parted from you, and reached this place on the Saturday night,viaBoston and Portland, quite done up, having travelled two nights without undressing. The crowds were such as they were on the Hudson, and my mind often reverted to the good things I left at the door of the steward's pantry in the 'Scotia,'
"Brydges is not yet back from Quebec, and Hopkins and I start to-morrow for the Saguenay and St. John's Lake, where affairs require to be looked after.
"I have a letter to-day from St. Paul, in which Kittson says that the railroad gentry were anxiously expecting you, and making much capital out of the expected visit. He adds, 'The people of the State will not be so blind to their own interest as to decline to undertake to complete the portion of telegraph required. I have no doubt that a company could immediately be formed to accomplish the object.'
"Reverting tomy grievanceagainst the old Board, I wish to state what I complain of, viz., that I am charged with my passage across the Atlantic, and with a sum of L50, drawn to cover travelling expenses to Montreal. These were charged against me in February, 1862, andhave borne interest against mesince then.
"2ndly. I complain that I am charged interest on all sums drawn by me in each year—thoughwithinthe amount of that year's salary. I surely am entitled to draw my pay from time to time to cover my expenditure? Officers in this country manage under the existing system of accounts to get the benefit of funds, even in excess of their pay, for two years without interest.
"3rdly. I had charge of the Puget Sound Company's affairs, which, with great labour, I placed upon a satisfactory footing—including the recovery of large sums from Government, and the terminating complicated and ruinous engagements with bailiffs or tenants and partners. I paid my expenses to Vancouver's Island, and devoted my whole time to the above matters, from 1st January, 1857, to the period of my leaving the Island in 1861, without having received one shilling of recompense. For the latter portion of the time I was paid by the H. B. Co., when I had the sole charge of its affairs during a most anxious and harassing period—constantly involved with all around me defending the rights of both companies.
"I say nothing as to my scale of pay under the old Board, but in making the changes which they did I think they ought not to have assumed that I should continue to act for the same remuneration.
"The pay was not my inducement to come to the country, but when overtures were first made to me, nothing being said to the contrary, I expected that I should at least receive the same pay and be placed on an equally good footing with the late Sir George Simpson, who for a number of years past lived at his ease at Lachine, and attended more, apparently, to his own affairs than to those of the Company. The latter bear evidence in every district of having been left entirely to themselves, while extreme discontent prevails in consequence of favouritism having regulated the promotions.
"Though not a ground of complaint, or a matter requiring redress—yet I may call attention to the inadequacy of my pay hitherto, when it is taken into account, that, from the unsettled life I have led in the Company's service, I have been obliged to neglect my private affairs. I have never received anything for outfit, and I was unlucky enough on my way out to have the most of our traps burnt the night before we embarked at Liverpool, in the Adelphi Hotel. The clothes ordered to replace these have all gone to the bottom in the 'Anglo Saxon.'
"I do not allude to these matters now with the view of obtaining higher pay for the future, as you know my intention is to return to England in the spring, and with the business in fair working order I can be of more avail there.
"It so happens that the fruits of my labours in America, both as regards the Hudson's Bay and Puget Sound Companies, will be reaped mainly by the present proprietors. At the same time, all such claims as the above ought to have been settled up to 31st May last by the old Board.
"A grumbling fellow is, I know, looked upon with great disfavour, especially when there is nothing more to be got out of him. This, therefore, is intended for your own eye alone. The substance of my complaint you may make use of as you see fit.
"Excuse this scrawl, and believe me in haste,"Very truly yours,"A. G. DALLAS.
"E. WATKIN, Esq., London."
"FORT GARRY, RED RIVER, "16th October, 1863.
"I arrived here on the 9th instant, after a wet, cold, and very miserable ride on horseback, of 520 miles, from St. Cloud, and was not sorry to gethomeagain.
"After parting from you I went to the Saguenay River and Lake St. John's, where I need say no more than that my presence was very much wanted. No practical supervision had ever been exercised over the posts in that district, so far as I could learn.
"Brydges accompanied me to St. Paul; but I could not induce him to come any further, as he said he had a wife, eleven hundred children, and six miles of railway (more or less of either) to look after.
"You will doubtless have seen what I have written to the Board in regard to the telegraph across the Continent. The more I consider the subject the more satisfied I am that next year's operations ought to be confined to a survey of the line, and to bring the material to Fort Garry. In addition to sending a practical man, I would recommend that Mr. Wood himself come to Fort Carry. By following the 'Crow Wing' route he will get a perfect idea of the difficulties to be encountered along the whole line, as perfectly as a pinch of flour would represent the contents of the whole sack.
"I wish to call your particular attention to a letter which I have this day addressed to the Board, upon the subject of Indian claims to lands, and the officious part taken by the editor of the 'Nor' Wester,' in the hope that you may be able to exercise some influence over the Duke of Newcastle in prevailing upon him to discourage such men in some marked manner. As my residence in that country will now be a very short one, and as I have no pecuniary interest in the Company or the country, I write disinterestedly, and this knowledge may induce his Grace to pay some attention to my warnings. There will be serious trouble hereafter with the Indians and half-breeds, unless the local government is better supported, and such men as Ross and others are discountenanced.
"My interest in the old Company was a nominal one, merely sufficient to qualify myself for a seat on the Direction. That interest I sold out on accepting my present appointment. During my residence at Vancouver Island and on this side, I have been working forhonorary occupation—my pay having formed no inducement, and being quite inadequate in countries where, in matters of expenditure, a dollar passes for little more than a shilling in England, and liable, as I was, from my wandering life, and with a family—to the losses incurred by a frequent breaking up of establishment. I allude to these matters, not for the purpose of complaint, but in support of the position that, as a disinterested and impartial administrator of the affairs entrusted to my charge, I was actuated by no selfish or pecuniary motives.
"The formation of the colony of British Columbia could not have been carried on as it was but for the assistance rendered by the H. B. Co., and I considered I was acting as much for the Government as for the Company, in the services then rendered, which, being unofficial, have not been in any way recognized. The unscrupulous way in which Douglas wished to saddle all expenses on the Company, and his attempts to deprive us of the lands which he himself made over to me as Company's property, led to serious differences between him and me, and which may have caused me to be looked on with probably a hostile eye by the Government, when I was actuated by the most impartial motives, and did at the same time everything I could to help the local government in its elections and other views, where our influence was overwhelming.
"Since assuming office on this side, I have been thoroughly disheartened, in the midst of very trying and difficult circumstances, between the Americans, Sioux Indians, and local disturbances on one hand, and the want of any encouragement or support by Government on the other hand. We have been not only ignored, but the worst enemies of the country have direct access to the Colonial Office, and though, probably, not attended to, are yet encouraged, from the fact of their petitions being received. No temptation would induce me to continue longer in office, even were it considered desirable that I should continue to hold my appointment, which for the good of the country I ought not. At the same time. Her Majesty's Government cannot continue much longer to ignore this territory. By such a course they are only sowing the seeds of further trouble, which I shall not be sorry to escape.
"I am afraid I have let my pen run away with me; but in our isolation local matters absorb our whole energies, and we look upon the affairs of Europe, or even the fall of Charleston, as of minor importance.
"Believe me, yours very truly,"A. G. DALLAS.
"EDWARD WATKIN, Esq., London."
The extract from the "Grit" paper, the "Nor 'Wester" was as follows:—
["From the 'Nor' Wester.']
"A few weeks ago, the venerable Chief of the Red River Indians, William King, or 'Pegowis,' left his home at the Indian Settlement—a most unusual thing for him—and came up to Fort Carry to make a formal statement, once for all, of the arrangement made by the late Earl of Selkirk with the Indians of this region in regard to their land. This statement, which he made voluntarily and deliberately, for the benefit of all whom it may concern, and for future reference if necessary, he desired to be published in this journal, and a copy thereof to be forwarded to the Duke of Newcastle. His immediate reason for doing this at present, is, he says, because he is now the only surviving Chief of the five who treated with Lord Selkirk, and as there have been many misrepresentations, he desires to see the facts placed on record before he passes off the earthly stage.
"The following is his account, taken down at his own request, by one of the editors of this journal:—
"'This transaction happened a long long time ago. I am now a very old man—I was then in the prime and vigour of manhood. We were taken by surprise when, all of a sudden, those who came before, disembarked. We had not been apprised of the coming of the foreigners—when they landed, we were greatly surprised and wondered what they meant. We were in this neighbourhood at the time. They only spoke among themselves, while the agents of the North-west Company were here. We did not know what it meant, when they asked the North-westers into the plain. As soon as they were done speaking among themselves the cannons were fired. We said, "What can it mean? It must be some great affair." The apparent harmony of the two Companies did not last long. The same summer differences arose which led to fighting: they fought twice that summer. We wondered at their proceedings—meeting in friendly council together, and then, immediately after, taking each others' lives!
"'As soon as the fighting was over, the report came that Lord Selkirk had arrived at Fort William. The ensuing winter, I called together all the Indians round here—those at Red Lake, at the Manitobah, and at the mouth of the Red River; I also invited the Crees on the Upper Assiniboine. "Come," said I—"assemble here—come and listen—this great man cannot be coming for nothing." A large multitude had gathered here early in the spring, when the Earl arrived with 30 canoes.
"'The day after he arrived, about noon, he sent for us. There were many of us, and we all left our tents at his call, and marched to the place of conference. There lay before us six kegs. He said—"Friends, I salute you." Immediately after the salutations, a day was fixed for a Council. Two personages were appointed to meet us. On the day named, one gentleman arrived, the other did not. He said—"Let us do without him who did not come." But the other soon came.
"'As soon as we had taken our seats, he said—"Friends, I have come to ask you about the lands, if you will give them to me. I do not want much—give what you choose. Will you give me as far from the river as you can distinguish the belly of a horse? It is to put settlers here— people far off, who have misery in their own country. This is why I want it. They will not trespass upon or spoil your lands that you retain outside of the limits I have named. I wish to put inhabitants upon it to cultivate the soil. I will endeavour to make the country like my own country. If I succeed in accomplishing what I intend, there will be merchants and traders from one end of the Settlement to the other, who will furnish you with goods. They will be at a little distance from each other, and you will have a chance of seeking out the best places for trading. All this I will do, if we can arrange about the land."
"'We were five Chiefs. I represented this district, the other Chiefs, other districts. The Earl said to me—"Speak you first—how much land will you give me?" I said—"I will speak last: let the others speak before me." KITCHE OTTAWA (Grand Courte-Oreille) spoke first. He mentioned Riviere aux Rose Aux. The Earl made no reply to this; whereupon the Chief mentioned as far as Pembina. The Earl said—Yes. Then he appealed to Mahkatayihkoonaya,Le Grand Noir, and asked whathewould give. He said, from Pembina to Red Lake. Then he turned toLa Robe Noir, who said as far as Portage Laprairie. At this the gentlemen hummed among themselves for a little, and the end was a question from the Earl. Is there no stream about there which you could mention as a limit? Mahkatayihkoonayai replied—Yes, there is la Riviere Champignon, a little beyond. The Earl said—There, that will be the limit. Then he asked Senna the Cree Chief, who said—No, I do not want agriculturists, I only want traders! The Earl said—Do you think you will ever see your trader again? (referring to the North-West Company). Never: he (the N. W. Co.) has done a bad thing—he has killed people. The Earl added—Then you do not wish to get a load of powder, a knife or a steel fromsettlers?Well, work diligently at the furs, and you will find a trader (meaning the H. B. Co.). The nobleman then said to me—Your turn, speak. I said—This is my place. How much will you give me for the part between this and the Rapids? I will then go below that. He said—a little further down, if you will. I replied— Yes, I will give you to the bend of the river above Sugar Point. That point I like very much—I cannot part with it—it is for my children. This satisfied the Earl, and he said further—Fear not: the people I plant here will not trouble your wild animals—they will merely work the soil. If they pass beyond the two-miles limit, do not allow them: they have no right there. At present we cannot conclude the arrangement, for I have nothing to pay you with. Let us leave the matter as it stands. I will come back, and then we will close the negociations. I am in a hurry, and cannot remain longer, but I will be sure to return. I want to go to the States and get cattle, that we may eat. That is the meatweeat. Perhaps evenyoumay desire to get some of our cattle when you see them with the inhabitants here. But before I leave, I would like to give you something in consideration of the arrangement, which is to be made when I come back. What would you like to have? I said—Powder is useful to Indians, and tobacco they like—rum, too, they would fain have. We got what we asked. When we were done speaking, the Earl said—I want you to put your names to a paper, to show in England what we propose to do. We all said, No—wait till you come back. He asked us again to sign, but we refused, saying it would be time enough when the arrangement was completed. The Earl said—If your names were down, it would be easier for me to conclude the affair when I get back; besides, your young men would see, in the event of your deaths, what you had proposed to do. So we consented. Our names and marks were put down. We did not see why he pressed us to sign; but I now think it was in order to have us in his power, should he not do what he promised. He did not tell us what was in the paper, and I regret to say we did not even ask him what was in it. That was our ignorance. It was a great mistake, as after events showed; Lord Selkirk never came back, and never completed the arrangements about the lands. Our lands have not been bought from us—we have not received payment for them. We got some things from time to time—small supplies—but less and less as time rolled along, until we got nothing. These little presents we looked upon as a consideration for the use of our land until a bargain should be properly made. Besides, we were friendly to the settlers, and often saved them from harm. We thought this also a reason why we got things. For my part, there was a great reason why I should receive something, irrespective of the land. I was the means one time of saving Lord Selkirk's life. When he was going off, some half- breeds wished to kill him—they asked us to take pemican to an ambush ahead. I refused, and prevented them doing it. The Earl thanked me for this. The things we got, I repeat, were not in payment for our lands. We never sold them. We only proposed to do so; but the proposal was never carried out, as Lord Selkirk never came back. At the time we held council with him, there was no mention of the Hudson's Bay Company. They were not spoken of, or taken into account at all. All of a sudden, some years afterwards, it turned out that they were claiming to be masters here.