Material breadnot found in Scripture.
William.And I said, "Sir, I tell you truly that I touched nothing there of the Sacrament of the Altar, but in this wise, as I will, with GOD's grace, tell you here.
"As I stood there in the pulpit, busying me to teach the commandment of GOD, there knelled a sacring-bell; and therefore mickle people turned away hastily, and with great noise ran from towards me. And I seeing this, say to them thus, 'Good men! ye were better to stand here full still and to hear GOD's Word. For, certes, the virtue and the mede of the most holy Sacrament of the Altar standeth much more in the Belief thereof that ye ought to have in your soul, than it doth in the outward Sight thereof. And therefore ye were better to stand quietly to hear GOD's Word, because that through the hearing thereof, men come to very true belief.' And otherwise, Sir, I am certain I spake not there, of the worthy Sacrament of the Altar."
Archbishop.And the Archbishop said to me, "I believe thee not! whatsoever thou sayest, since so worshipful men have witnessed against thee. But since thou deniest that thou saidest thus there, what sayest thou now? Resteth there, after the consecration, in the [h]ost, material bread or no?"
William.And I said, "Sir, I know of no place in Holy Scripture, where this term,material bread, is written: and therefore, Sir, when I speak of this matter, I use not [am not accustomed] to speak of material bread."
Archbishop.Then the Archbishop said to me, "How teachest thou men to believe in this Sacrament?"
William.And I said, "Sir, as I believe myself, so I teach other men."
Archbishop.He said, "Tell out plainly thy belief hereof!"
William.And I said, with my Protestation, "Sir,I believe that the night before thatChrist Jesuwould suffer wilfully Passion for mankind on the morn after, he took bread in his holy and most worshipful hands, lifting up his eyes, and giving thanks to GOD his Father, blessed this bread and brake it, and gave it to his disciples, saying to them, Take, and eat of this, all of you! This is my body!
"And that this is, and ought to be all men's belief,Matthew,Mark,Luke, andPaulwitnesseth.
"Other belief, Sir, have I none, nor will have, nor teach: for I believe that this sufficeth in this matter. For in this belief, with GOD's grace, I purpose to live and die: [ac]knowledging as I believe and teach other men to believe,thatthe worshipful Sacrament of the Altar is the Sacrament ofChrist's flesh and his blood, in form of bread and wine."
Archbishop.And the Archbishop said to me, "It is sooth, that this Sacrament is veryChrist's body in form of bread: but thou and thy sect teachest it to be the substance of bread! Think you this true teaching?"
William.And I said, "Neither I nor any other of the sect that ye damn [condemn], teach any otherwise than I have told you, nor believe otherwise, to my knowing.
St. Paul, a Doctor of Holy Church.
"Nevertheless, Sir, I ask of you, for charity! that will ye tell me plainly, how ye shall understand this text of SaintPaul, where he saith thus,This thing feel you in yourselves, that is, inChrist Jesu, while he was in the form of GOD.Sir, calleth notPaulhere,the form of GOD, the substance or kind of GOD? Also, Sir, saith not the Church, in theHoursof the most blessed Virgin, accordingly hereto, where it is written thus,Thou Author of Health! remember that some time thou took, of the undefiled Virgin, the form of our body!Tell me, for charity! therefore, Whetherthe form of our bodybe called here,the kind of our body, or no?"
Archbishop.And the Archbishop said to me, "Wouldst thou make me declare this text after thy purpose, since the Church hath now determined that 'there abideth no substance of bread after the consecration in the Sacrament of the Altar!' Believest thou not, on this Ordinance of the Church?"
William.And I said, "Sir, whatsoever Prelates have ordained in the Church, our Belief standeth ever whole. I have not heard that the ordinance of men under Belief, should be put into Belief."
Archbishop.And the Archbishop said to me, "If thou hast not learned this before, learn now, to know that thou art out of belief, if, in this matter, and others, thou believest not as Holy Church believeth! What say Doctors treating of this Sacrament?"
The Faith of the Church for 1,000 years.
William.And I said, "Sir, SaintPaul, that was a great Doctor of Holy Church, speaking to the people and teaching the right belief of this most holy Sacrament, calleth itbread that we break. And also in the Canon of theMasse, after the consecration, this most worthy Sacrament is calledholy bread. And every priest in this land, after he hath received this Sacrament, saith to this wise,That thing which we have taken withour mouth, we pray GOD, that we may take it with a pure and clean mind: that is, as I understand, 'We pray GOD, that we may receive, through very belief, this holy Sacrament worthily.' And, Sir, SaintAugustinesaith,That thing that is sense is bread, but that men's faith asketh to be informed of, is veryChrist's body.And alsoFulgentius, an ententif Doctor, saith,As it were an error to say thatChristwas but a substance, that is Very Man and not Very GOD, or to say thatChristwas Very GOD and not Very Man; so is it, this Doctor saith,an error to say that the Sacrament of the Altar is but a substance. And also, Sir, accordingly hereto, in theSecretof the mid-Massof Christmas day, it is written thus,Idem refulsit DEUS, sic terrena substantia nobis conferat quod divinum est; which sentence, with theSecretof the fourth feryequatuor temporum Septembris, I pray you, Sir, declare here openly in English!"
Archbishop.And the Archbishop said to me, "I perceive well enough whereabout thou art! and how the Devil blindeth thee, that thou maist not understand the ordinance of Holy Church, nor consent thereto! But I command thee now, answer me shortly, 'Believest thou that, after the consecration of this foresaid Sacrament, there abideth substance of bread or not?'"
William.And I said, "Sir, as I understand, it is all one to grant or to believe that there dwelleth substance of bread, and to grant or to believe that this most worthy Sacrament ofChrist's own body is one Accident without Subject. But, Sir, for as mickle as your asking passeth mine understanding, I dare neither deny it nor grant it, for it is a School matter [a subject for debate in the University Schools], about which I busied me never for to know it: and therefore I commit this termaccidens sine subjecto, to those Clerks which delight them so in curious and subtle sophistry, because they determine oft so difficult and strange matters, and wade and wander so in them, from argument to argument, withproandcontra, till they wot not where they are! nor understand not themselves! But the shame that these proud sophisters have to yield them to men and before men, maketh them oft fools, and to be concluded shamefully before GOD."
Archbishop.And the Archbishop said to me, "I purpose not to oblige thee to the subtle arguments of Clerks, sincethou art unable thereto! but I purpose to make thee obey to the determination of Holy Church."
William.And I said, "Sir, by open evidence and great witness, a thousand years after the Incarnation ofChrist, that determination which I have, here before you, rehearsed was accepted of Holy Church, as sufficient to the salvation of all them that would believe it faithfully, and work thereafter charitably. But, Sir, the determination of this matter, which was brought in since the Fiend was loosed by FriarThomas[Acquinas,d.1274] again, specially calling the most worshipful Sacrament ofChrist's own body, anAccident without Subject; which term, since I know not that GOD's law approveth it in this matter, I dare not grant: but utterly I deny to make this friar's sentence [enunciation] or any such other my belief; do with me, GOD! what Thou wilt!"
Archbishop.And the Archbishop said to me, "Well, well! thou shalt say otherwise ere that I leave thee!"
The 2nd charge of the Shrewsbury men.
But what sayest thou to this second point that is recorded against thee, by worthy men of Shrewsbury, saying that thou preachedst openly there thatthe images ought not to be worshipped in any wise?"
William.And I said, "Sir, I preached never thus, nor, through GOD's grace, I will not, any time, consent to think nor to say thus; neither privily, nor apertly. For, lo, the LORD witnesseth by Moses, that the things which He made wereright good, and so then they were, and yet are, and shall be good and worshipful in their kind. And thereto, to the end that GOD made them to, they are all preisable [valuable] and worshipful; and specially man that was made after the image and likeness of GOD is full worshipful in his kind: yea, this holy image, that is man, GOD worshippeth [respecteth]. And herefore every man should worship others in kind, and also for heavenly virtues that men use charitably. Also I say, wood, tin, gold, silver, or any other matter that images are made of; all these creatures [created things] are worshipful in their kind, and to the end that GOD made them for.
How Image-carvers shrive themselves first.
"But the carving, casting, nor painting of any imagery made with man's hands (albeit that this doing be accepted of men of highest state and dignity, and ordained of them to be a calendar [horn book] to lewd men that neither can nor willbe learned to know GOD in His Word, neither by His creatures, nor by His wonderful and divers workings); yet this imagery ought not to be worshipped in the form, nor in the likeness of man's craft: nevertheless that every matter that painters paint with, since it is GOD's creature, ought to be worshipped in the kind and to the end that GOD made and ordained it to serve man."
Archbishop.Then the Archbishop said to me, "I grant well that nobody oweth [ought] to do worship to any such images for themselves; but a crucifix ought to be worshipped for the Passion ofChristthat is painted therein, and so brought therethrough to man's mind: and thus the images of the blessed Trinity and of [the] VirginMary,Christ's mother, and other images of the saints ought to be worshipped. For, lo, earthly kings and lords, which use to send their letters ensealed with their arms or with their privy signet, to men that are with them, are worshipped of these men. For when these men receive their lord's letters, in which they see and know the wills and biddings of their lords, in worship of their lords, they do off their caps to these letters: why not, then, since in images made with man's hands, we may read and know many divers things of GOD and of His saints, shall we not worship their images?"
William.And I said, with my foresaid Protestation, "I say that these worldly usages of temporal lords that ye speak now of, may be done in case without sin: but this is no similitude to worship images made by man's hand, since thatMoses,David,Solomon,Baruch, and other saints in theBible, forbid so plainly the worshipping of all such images."
Archbishop.Then the Archbishop said to me, "Lewd losell! In the Old Law, before thatChristtook mankind [human nature], was no likeness of any person of the Trinity neither shewed to man nor known of man; but now sinceChristbecame man, it is lawful to have images to shew His manhood. Yea, though many men which are right great Clerks, and others also, hold it an error to paint the Trinity; I say, it is well done to make and to paint the Trinity in images. For it is a great moving of devotion to men, to have and to behold the Trinity and other images of Saints carved, cast, and painted. For beyond the sea, are the best painters that ever I saw. And, sirs! I tell you, this is theirmanner; and it is a good manner! When that an image-maker shall carve, cast in mould, or paint any images; he shall go to a priest, and shrive him as clean as if he should die, and take penance, and make some certain vow of fasting, or of praying, or of pilgrimages doing: praying the priest specially to pray for him, that he may have grace to make a fair and a devout image."
Great boldness of the Lollard Apostle.
William.And I said, "Sir, I doubt not, if these painters that ye speak of, or any other painters understood truly the text ofMoses, ofDavid, of the Wise Man [i.e.,Solomon], ofBaruch, and of other Saints and Doctors, these painters should be moved to shrive them to GOD, with full inward sorrow of heart; taking upon them to do right sharp penance for the sinful and vain craft of painting, carving, or casting that they had used; promising GOD faithfully never to do so after, [ac]knowledging openly before all men, their reprovable earning. And also, sir, these priests, that shrive, as ye do say, painters, and enjoin them to do penance, and pray for their speed, promising to them help of their prayers for to be curious [cunning] in their sinful crafts, sin herein more grievously than the painters. For these priests do comfort and give them counsel to do that thing, which of great pain (yea, under the pain of GOD's curse!) they should utterly forbid them. For, certes, Sir, if the wonderful working of GOD, and the holy living and teaching ofChristand of his Apostles and Prophets were made known to the people by holy living and true and busy teaching of priests; these things, Sir, were sufficient books and kalendars to know GOD by, and His Saints: without any images made with man's hand: but, certes, the vicious living of priests and their covetousness are [the] chief cause of this error and all other viciousness that reigneth among the people."
Archbishop.Then the Archbishop said to me, "I hold thee a vicious priest, and a curst! and all them that are of thy sect! for all priests of Holy Church and all images that move men to devotion; thou and such others go about to destroy! Losell! were it a fair thing to come into a church, and see therein none image?"
There is no miracle in an Image.
William.And I said, "Sir, they that come to the church, for to pray devoutly to the LORD GOD, may in their inward wits be the more fervent [when] that all their outward witsbe closed from all outward seeing and hearing and from all distroublance and lettings [hindrances]. And sinceChristblessed them that saw him not bodily, and have believed faithfully in him: it sufficeth then, to all men, through hearing and knowing of GOD's Word, and to do thereafter, for to believe in GOD, though they see never images made with man's hands, after any Person of the Trinity, or of any other Saint."
Archbishop.And the Archbishop said to me with a fervent spirit, "I say to thee, losell! that it is right well done to make and to have an image of the Trinity! Yea, what sayest thou? Is it not a stirring thing to behold such an image?"
William.And I said, "Sir, ye said, right now, that in the Old Law, ere Christ took mankind, no likeness of any Person of the Trinity was shewed to men; wherefore, Sir, ye said it was not then lawful to have images: but now ye say, sinceChristis become man, it is lawful to make and to have an image of the Trinity, and also of other saints. But, sir, this thing would I learn of you! Since the Father of heaven, yea, and every Person of the Trinity was, without beginning, GOD Almighty, and many holy prophets, that were dedely [deathly, i.e., liable to death] men, were martyrized violently in the Old Law, and also many men and women then died holy Confessors: why was it notthen, as lawful and necessary as now, to have made an image of the Father of heaven, and to have made and had other images of martyrs, prophets, and holy confessors to have been kalendars to advise men and move them to devotion, as ye say that images now do?"
Archbishop.And the Archbishop said, "The Synagogue of Jews had not authority to approve these things, as the Church of Christ hath now."
William.And I said, "Sir, SaintGregorywas a great man in the New Law, and of great dignity; and as the Common [?Canon] Law witnesseth, he commended greatly a Bishop, in that he forbade utterly the images made with man's hand, should be worshipped."
In what image, may GOD be shewed?
Archbishop.And the Archbishop said, "Ungracious losell! thou favourest no more the truth, than a hound! Since at the Rood[s] at the North Door [of Saint Paul's Church] at London, at our Lady at Walsingham, and many other divers places in England, are many great and preisable[precious] miracles done: should not the images of such holy saints and places, at [on account of] the reverence of GOD, and our Lady, and other saints, be more worshipped, than other places and images where no such miracles are done?"
William.And I said, "Sir, there is no such virtue in any imagery, that any images should herefore be worshipped; wherefore I am certain that there is no miracle done of GOD in any place in earth, because that any images made with man's hand, should be worshipped. And herefore, Sir, as I preached openly at Shrewsbury and other places, I say now here before you: that nobody should trust that there were any virtue in imagery made with man's hand, and herefore nobody should vow to them, nor seek them, nor kneel to them, nor bow to them, nor pray to them, nor offer anything to them, nor kiss them, nor incense them. For, lo, the most worthy of such images, the Brazen Serpent, byMosesmade, at GOD's bidding! the good KingHezekiahdestroyed worthily and thankfully; for because it was incensed. Therefore, Sir, if men take good heed to the writing and to the learning of SaintAugustine, of SaintGregory, and of Saint JohnChrysostom, and of other Saints and Doctors, how they speak and write of miracles that shall be done now in the last end of the world; it is to dread that, for the unfaithfulness of men and women, the Fiend hath great power for to work many of the miracles that now are done in such places. For both men and women delight now, more for to hear and know miracles, than they do to know GOD's Word or to hear it effectuously. Wherefore, to the great confusion of all them that thus do, Christ saith,The generation of adulterers requireth tokens, miracles, and wonders.Nevertheless, as divers Saints say, now, when the faith of GOD is published in Christendom, the Word of God sufficeth to man's salvation, without such miracles; and thus also the Word of GOD sufficeth to all faithful men and women, without any such images.
"But, good Sir, since the Father of heaven, that is GOD in His Godhead, is the most unknown thing that may be, and the most wonderful Spirit, having in it no shape or likeness of any members of any dedely [deadly, i.e., liable to death] creature: in what likeness, or what image, may GOD the Father be shewed or painted?"
Archbishop.And the Archbishop said, "As Holy Church hath suffered, and yet suffereth the images of all the Trinity, and other images to be painted and shewed, sufficeth to them that are members of Holy Church. But since thou art a rotten member cut away from Holy Church, thou favourest not the ordinance thereof! But since the day passeth, leave we this matter!"
The 3rd charge of the Shrewsbury men.
Archbishop.And then he said to me, "What sayest thou, to the third point that is certified against thee, preaching openly in Shrewsbury thatPilgrimage is not lawful? And, over this, thou saidest thatthose men and women that go on pilgrimages to Canterbury, to Beverley, to Carlington, to Walsingham, and to any such other places, are accursed; and made foolish, spending their goods in waste."
William.And I said, "Sir, by thisCertification, I am accused to you, that I should teach thatno pilgrimage is lawful. But I never said thus. For I know that there be true pilgrimages, and lawful and full pleasant to GOD; and therefore, Sir, howsoever mine enemies have certified you of me, I told at Shrewsbury of two manner of pilgrimages."
Archbishop.And the Archbishop said to me, "Whom callest thou true pilgrims?"
Every good thought is a step heavenward.
William.And I said, "Sir, with my Protestation, I call them true pilgrims travelling towards the bliss of heaven, which (in the state, degree, or order that GOD calleth them) do busy them faithfully for to occupy all their wits bodily and ghostly, to know truly and keep faithfully the biddings of GOD, hating and fleeing all the seven deadly sins and every branch of them, ruling them virtuously, as it is said before, with all their wits, doing discreetly wilfully and gladly all the works of mercy, bodily and ghostly, after their cunning and power abling them to the gifts of the HOLY GHOST, disposing them to receive in their souls, and to hold therein the right blessings ofChrist; busying them to know and to keep the seven principal virtues: and so then they shall obtain herethrough grace for to use thankfully to GOD all the conditions of charity; and then they shall be moved with the good Spirit of GOD for to examine oft and diligently their conscience, that neither wilfully nor wittingly they err in any Article of Belief, having continually (as frailty willsuffer) all their business to dread and to flee the offence of GOD, and to love over all things and to seek ever to do His pleasant will.
"Of these pilgrims, I said, 'Whatsoever good thought that they any time think, what virtuous word that they speak, and what fruitful work that they work; every such thought, word, and work is a step numbered of GOD towards Him into heaven. These foresaid pilgrims of GOD delight sore, when they hear of saints or of virtuous men and women, how they forsook wilfully the prosperity of this life, how they withstood the suggestion of the Fiend, how they restrained their fleshly lusts, how discreet they were in their penance doing, how patient they were in all their adversities, how prudent they were in counselling of men and women, moving them to hate all sin and to flee them and to shame ever greatly thereof, and to love all virtues and to draw to them, imagining howChristand his followers (by example of him) suffered scorns and slanders, and how patiently they abode and took the wrongful menacing of tyrants, how homely they were and serviceable to poor men to relieve and comfort them bodily and ghostly after their power and cunning, and how devout they were in prayers, how fervent they were in heavenly desires, and how they absented them from spectacles of vain seeings and hearings, and how stable they were to let [hinder] and to destroy all vices, and how laborious and joyful they were to sow and plant virtues. These heavenly conditions and such others, have the pilgrims, or endeavour them for to have, whose pilgrimage GOD accepteth.'
The singing and jangling of pilgrims.
"And again I said, 'As their works shew, the most part of men or women that go now on pilgrimages have not these foresaid conditions; nor loveth to busy them faithfully for to have. For (as I well know, since I have full oft assayed) examine, whosoever will, twenty of these pilgrims! and he shall not find three men or women that know surely a Commandment of GOD [i.e., one of the Ten Commandments], nor can say theirPater nosterandAveMaria! nor theirCredo, readily in any manner of language. And as I have learned, and also know somewhat by experience of these same pilgrims, telling the cause why that many men and women go hither and thither now on pilgrimages, it is more for the health of their bodies, than of their souls! more for to have richesse andprosperity of this world, than for to be enriched with virtues in their souls! more to have here worldly and fleshly friendship, than for to have friendship of GOD and of His saints in heaven. For whatsoever thing a man or woman doth, the friendship of GOD, nor of any other Saint, cannot be had without keeping of GOD's commandments.'
"For with my Protestation, I say now, as I said at Shrewsbury, 'though they that have fleshly wills, travel for their bodies, and spend mickle money to seek and to visit the bones or images, as they say they do, of this saint and of that: such pilgrimage-going is neither praisable nor thankful to GOD, nor to any Saint of GOD; since, in effect, all such pilgrims despise GOD and all His commandments and Saints. For the commandments of GOD they will neither know nor keep, nor conform them to live virtuously by example ofChristand of his Saints.'
"Wherefore, Sir, I have preached and taught openly, and so I purpose all my lifetime to do, with GOD's help, saying that 'such fond people waste blamefully GOD's goods in their vain pilgrimages, spending their goods upon vicious hostelars [innkeepers], which are oft unclean women of their bodies; and at the least, those goods with the which, they should do works of mercy, after GOD's bidding, to poor needy men and women.'
"¶These poor men's goods and their livelihood, these runners about offer to rich priests! which have mickle more livelihood than they need: and thus those goods, they waste wilfully, and spend them unjustly, against GOD's bidding, upon strangers; with which they should help and relieve, after GOD's will, their poor needy neighbours at home. Yea, and over this folly, ofttimes divers men and women of these runners thus madly hither and thither into pilgrimage, borrow hereto other men's goods (yea, and sometimes they steal men's goods hereto), and they pay them never again.
"Also, Sir, I know well, that when divers men and women will go thus after their own wills, and finding out one pilgrimage, they will ordain with them before[hand] to have with them both men and women that can well sing wanton songs; and some other pilgrims will have with them bagpipes: so that every town that they come through, what with the noise of their singing, and with the sound of their piping, and with the jangling of their Canterbury bells, and with thebarking out of dogs after them, they make more noise than if the King came there away, with all his clarions and many other minstrels. And if these men and women be a month out in their pilgrimage, many of them shall be, a half year after, great janglers, tale-tellers, and liars."
The Archbp.'s cure for a toeache.
Archbishop.And the Archbishop said to me, "Lewd losell! thou seest not far enough in this matter! for thou considerest not the great travail of pilgrims; therefore thou blamest that thing that is praisable! I say to thee, that it is right well done; that pilgrims have with them both singers and also pipers: that when one of them that goeth barefoot striketh his toe upon a stone and hurteth him sore and maketh him to bleed; it is well done, that he or his fellow, begin then a song or else take out of his bosom a bagpipe for to drive away with such mirth, the hurt of his fellow. For with such solace, the travail and weariness of pilgrims is lightly and merrily brought forth."
William.And I said, "Sir, SaintPaulteacheth men,to weep with them that weep."
Archbishop.And the Archbishop said, "What janglest thou against men's devotion? Whatsoever thou or such other say, I say, that the pilgrimage that now is used, is to them that do it, a praisable and a good mean[s] to come the rather to grace. But I hold thee unable to know this grace! for thou enforcest thee to let [hinder] the devotion of the people, since by authority of Holy Scripture, men may lawfully have and use such solace as thou reprovest! ForDavidin his lastPsalm, teacheth me to have divers instruments of music for to praise therewith GOD."
William.And I said, "Sir, by the sentence [opinions] of divers Doctors expounding thePsalmsofDavid, the music and minstrelsy thatDavidand other Saints of the Old Law spake of, owe [ought], now, neither to be taken nor used by the letter; but these instruments with their music ought to be interpreted ghostly [spiritually]: for all those figures are called Virtues and Grace, with which virtues men should please GOD and praise His name. For SaintPaulsaith,All such things befell to them in figure.Therefore, Sir, I understand that the letter of thisPsalmofDavidand of such otherPsalmsand sentences, doth slay them that taken them now literally. This sentence, I understand, Sir,Christapproveth himself, putting out the minstrels, ere that he would quicken the dead damsel."
Archbishop.And the Archbishop said to me, "Lewd losell! is it not lawful for us to have organs in the church, for to worship therewithal GOD?"
William.And I said, "Yea, Sir, by man's ordinance; but, by the ordinance of GOD, a good sermon to the people's understanding, were mickle more pleasant to GOD!"
Archbishop.And the Archbishop said that "organs and good delectable songs quickened and sharpened more men's wits, than should any sermon!"
William.But I said, "Sir, lusty men and worldly lovers delight and covet and travail to have all their wits quickened and sharpened with divers sensible solace: but all the faithful lovers and followers ofChristhave all their delight to hear GOD's Word, and to understand it truly, and to work thereafter faithfully and continually. For, no doubt, to dread to offend GOD, and to love to please Him in all things, quickeneth and sharpeneth all the wits ofChrist's chosen people, and ableth them so to grace, that they joy greatly to withdraw their ears, and all their wits and members from all worldly delight, and from all fleshly solace. For SaintJerome, as I think, saith,Nobody may joy with this world, and reign withChrist."
Archbishop.And the Archbishop, as if he had been displeased with mine answer, said to his Clerks, "What guess ye this idiot will speak there, where he hath none dread; since he spaketh thus now, here in my presence? Well, well, by God! thou shalt be ordained for!"
The 4th charge of the Shrewsbury men.
And then he spake to me, all angerly, "What sayest thou to this fourth point that is certified against thee, preaching openly and boldly in Shrewsbury,That priests have no title to tithes?"
Christ & his Apostles took no tithes.
William.And I said, "Sir, I named there no word of tithes in my preaching. But, more than a month after [?June, 1407] that I was arrested, there in prison [at Shrewsbury], a man came to me into the prison, asking me 'What I said of tithes?'
"And I said to him, 'Sir, in this town, are many Clerks and Priests; of which some of them are called Religious Men, though many of them be Seculars. Therefore, ask ye of them this question!'
"And this man said to me, 'Sir, our prelates say that we are also obliged to pay our tithes of all things that renew to us; and that they are accursed that withdraw any part wittingly from them of their tithes.'
"And I said, Sir, to that man, as with my Protestation, I say now here before you, that 'I had wonder[ed] that any priest dare saymen to be accursed, without ground of GOD's Word.'
"And the man said, 'Sir, our priests say that they curse men thus, by authority of GOD's Law.'
"And I said, 'Sir, I know not where this sentence of cursing is authorized now in theBible. And therefore, Sir, I pray you that ye will ask the most cunning Clerk of this town, that ye may know where this sentence, "cursing them that tythe not now," is written in GOD's Law: for if it were written there, I would right gladly be learned [informed] where.'
"But, shortly, this man would not go from me, to ask this question of another body; but required me, there, as I would answer before GOD! if, in this case, the cursing of priests were lawful and approved of GOD?
"And, shortly, therewith came to my mind the learning of SaintPeter, teaching priests especially,to hallow the LORDChristin their hearts, being evermore ready, as far as in them is, to answer through faith and hope, to them that ask of them a reason. And this lessonPeterteacheth me to use, with a meek spirit, and with dread of the LORD.
"Wherefore, Sir, I said to this man, in this wise, 'In the Old Law, which ended not fully till the time thatChristrose up again from death to life, GOD commanded tithes to be given to the Levites for the great business and daily travail that pertained to their office: but Priests, because their travail was mickle more easy and light than was the office of the Levites, GOD ordained that Priests should take for their lifelode [livelihood] to do their office, the tenth part of those tithes that were given to the Levites.
Apostle Paul worked with his hands.
"'But now,' I said, 'in the New Law, neitherChristnor any of his Apostles took tithes of the people, nor commanded the people to pay tithes, neither to Priests nor to Deacons. ButChristtaught the people to do almesse [alms], that is, works of mercy to poor needy men, of surplus that is superfluouse [superfluity] of their temporal goods whichthey had more than them needed reasonably to their necessary livelihood. And thus,' I said, 'not of tithes, but of pure alms of the peopleChristlived and his Apostles, when they were so busy in teaching of the Word of GOD to the people, that they might not travail otherwise for to get their livelihood. But afterChrist's Ascension, and when the Apostles had received the HOLY GHOST, they travailed with their hands for to get their livelihood when that they might thus do for [on account of] busy preaching. Therefore, by example of himself, St.Paulteacheth all the priests ofChristfor to travail with their hands, when for busy teaching of the people, they might thus do. And thus all these priests (whose priesthood GOD accepteth now, or will accept; or did [accept] in the Apostles' time, and after their decease) will do, to the world's end.
"'But asCisterciensistelleth, in the thousand year of our LordJesus Christ, two hundred and eleventh year, one Pope, the tenthGregory, ordained new tithes first to be given to priests now in the New Law. But SaintPaulin his time (whose trace or example, all priests of GOD enforce them to follow), seeing the covetousness that was among the people (desiring to destroy this foul sin, through the grace of GOD, and true virtuous living and example of himself) wrote and taught all priests forto follow him, as he followedChrist, patiently, willingly, and gladly in high poverty. WhereforePaulsaith this,The LORD hath ordained, that they that preach the Gospel shall live by the Gospel. But we,saithPaul,that covet and busy us to be faithful followers ofChrist, use not this power.For, lo, asPaulwitnessed afterward, when he was full poor and needy, preaching among the people, he was not chargeous [chargeable] unto them, but with his hands he travailed, not only to get his own living, but also the living of other poor and needy creatures. And since the people were never so covetous nor so avarous [avaricious], I guess, as they are now; it were good counsel that all priests took good heed to this heavenly learning ofPaul: following him here, in wilful poverty, nothing charging the people for their bodily livelihood.
Priests spend the parish offerings.
"'But because that many priests do contraryPaulin this foresaid doctrine,Paulbiddeth the people take heed to those priests, that follow him, as he had given them example: as ifPaulwould say thus to the people, "Accept ye none other priests, than they that live after the form that I have taught you!" For, certain, in whatsoever dignity or order that any priest is in, if he conform him not to followChristand his Apostles in wilful poverty and in other heavenly virtues, and specially in true preaching of GOD's Word; though such a one be named a Priest, yet he is no more but a Priest in name: for the work of a very Priest such a one wanteth! This sentence [opinion] approvethAugustine,Gregory,Chrysostom, and [Grossetête,Bishop of]Lincolnplainly.'"
Archbishop.And the Archbishop said to me, "Thinkest thou this wholesome learning for to sow openly, or yet privily among the people! Certain, this doctrine contrarieth plainly the ordinance of Holy Fathers: which have ordained, granted, and licensed priests to be in divers degrees; and to live by tithes and offerings of the people, and by other duties."
William.And I said, "Sir, if priests were now in measurable measure and number; and lived virtuously, and taught busily and truly the Word by the example ofChristand of his Apostles, without tithes offerings and other duties that priests now challenge and take: the people would give them freely sufficient livelihood."
A Clerk.And a Clerk said to me, "How wilt thou make this good, that the people will give freely to priests their livelihood; since that now, by the law, every priest can scarcely constrain the people to give them their livelihood?"
Christ lived wholly upon alms.
William.And I said, "Sir, it is now no wonder, though the people grudge to give the priests the livelihood that they ask! for mickle people know, now, how that priests should live; and how that they live contrary toChristand His Apostles. And therefore the people are full heavy to pay, as they do, their temporal goods to Parsons and to other Vicars and Priests; which should be faithful dispensators of the parish's goods, taking to themselves no more but a scarce living of tithes nor of offerings by the Ordinance of the Common Law. For whatsoever priests take of the people, be it tithes or offering, or any other duty or service, the priests ought not to have thereof no more but a bare living: and to depart [give away] the residue to the poor men and women, specially of the parish of whom they take this temporal living.But the most deal [greater portion] of priests now waste their parish's goods, and spendeth them at their own will, after the world in their vain lusts: so that in few places poor men have duly, as they should have, their own sustenance, neither of tithes nor of offerings, nor of other large wages and foundations that priests take of the people in divers manners, above that they need for needful sustenance of meat and clothing. But the poor needy people are forsaken and left of priests, to be sustained of the paroshenis [parishioners]; as if the priests took nothing of the parishioners, for to help the poor people with. And thus, Sir, into over great charges of the parishioners, they pay their temporal goods twice; where once might suffice, if priests were true dispensators.
"Also, Sir, the parishioners that pay their temporal goods, be they tithes or offerings, to priests that do not their office among them justly, are partners of every sin of those priests: because that they sustain those priests' folly in their sin, with their temporal goods. If these things be well considered, what wonder is it then, Sir, if the parishioners grudge against these dispensators?"
Archbishop.Then the Archbishop said to me, "Thou that shouldest be judged and ruled by Holy Church, presumptuously, thou deemest Holy Church to have erred in the ordinance of tithes and other duties to be paid to priests! It shall be long ere thou thrive, losell! that thou despisest thy ghostly Mother! How darest thou speak this, losell! among the people? Are not tithes given to priests for to live by?"
William.And I said, "Sir, SaintPaulsaith that tithes were given in the Old Law to Levites and to Priests, that came of the lineage ofLevi. Butour priest, he saith,came not of the lineage ofLevi, but of the lineage ofJudah; to whichJudah, no tithes were promised to be given. And thereforePaulsaith,Since the priesthood is changed from the generation ofLevito the generation ofJudah, it is necessary that changing also be made of the Law. So that priests live now without tithes and other duties that they now claim; followingChristand his Apostles in wilful poverty, as they have given them example. For sinceChristlived all the time of His preaching by pure [the simple] alms of the people, and (by example of him) his Apostles lived in the same wise, or else by the travail of their hands, as it is said above; every priest, whosepriesthoodChristapproveth, knoweth well, and confesseth in word and in work thata disciple oweth[ought]not to be above his Master, but it sufficeth to a disciple to be as his Master, simple and pure, meek and patient: and by example specially of his MasterChrist, every priest should rule him in all his living; and so, after his cunning and power, a priest should busy him to inform and to rule whomsoever he might charitably."
Archbishop.And the Archbishop said to me, with a great spirit, "GOD's curse have thou and thine for this teaching! for thou wouldest hereby make the Old Law more free and perfect than the New Law! For thou sayest it is lawful for Levites and to Priests to take tithes in the Old Law, and so to enjoy their privileges; but to us priests in the New Law, thou sayest it is not lawful to take tithes! And thus, thou givest the Levites of the Old Law more freedom, than to priests of the New Law!"
William.And I said, "Sir, I marvel, that ye understand this plain text ofPaulthus! Ye wot well, that the Levites and Priests in the Old Law, that took tithes, were not so free nor so perfect asChristand his Apostles that took no tithes! And, Sir, there is a Doctor, I think that it is SaintJerome, that saith thus,The priests that challenge now in the New Law, tithes, say, in effect thatChristis not become Man, nor that he hath yet suffered death for man's love.Whereupon, this Doctor saith this sentence,Since tithes were the hires and wages limited to Levites and to Priests of the Old Law, for bearing about of the Tabernacle, and for slaying and flaying of beasts, and for burning of sacrifice, and for keeping of the Temple, and for trumping of battle before the host of Israel, and other divers observances that pertained to their office; those priests, that will challenge or take tithes, deny thatChristis comen in flesh, and do the Priest's office of the Old Law, for whom tithes were granted: for else, as the Doctor saith,priests take now tithes wrongfully."