Stratton Street, Thursday, Dec. 11th, 1788.My dear Lord,I did not receive your kind letter of Dec. 2nd, until my arrival last night from the House of Commons, when it was too late to write, and the conversation which then arose was of so important a nature, that it was not practicable or proper to steal a moment from the debate, or to send a line respecting it ere it was closed, and the subject took a decisive turn, which was after the post hour.To a friendship so dear and honourable to me as yours, and shown me by so many instances of goodness, the best answer I can make is, through life, by a return of grateful attachment, honour, and disinterestedness; and in these, if I aught know myself, I shall never fail.Of the momentous business opened last night, I can only say thatourastonishment is only to be equalled by the spirits we are in, on viewing the grounds Mr. Fox hath abandoned to us and leftour own. Lord Radnor, who breakfasted with me this morning, told me he understands that Fox's doctrine, "that the Prince of Wales was Regent, invested with full regal authority immediately andde jureon the incapacity, however temporary, of the King, and that the two Houses of Parliament had no right to debate thereon even," came fromthat constitutional lawyer, Lord Loughborough. Radnor's further remark, that Fox, having on a former occasion sought to trespass on the royal just prerogative, had now completed his attack on the Constitution, in denying the rights of Lords and Commons, is worthy observation. Talbot, who made one of my morning's levée, told me that at White's last night, all was hurra! and triumph. Charles Sturt and other youngsters took part at the bar, to echo the "Hear, hear," from Fitzpatrick and Burke, ofFox's doctrine; yet the "Hear, hear," was but little caught or repeated, though given loudly. Looking back to the history of this "Man of the People," and to his present conduct, in despite of his talents of logical discrimination, I begin almost to doubt whether his weakness or profligacy is transcendant. Pitt's language was most masterly and decisive; and has been done but little justice to in the papers of this day. The general tenor of subject they will give you, but what I have seen does not touch on the overthrow of Fox's resort to the doctrine that Parliament was of "Kings, Lords, and Commons; that no two branches thereof could makea law," by the just and constitutional distinction between the two Houses making a law, and the providing or giving efficiency to the third executive branch of Legislature in cases of defect, whatever it may be. The report of the physicians being ordered to be printed, will be out to-morrow, when I will send it, with a few remarks. Our great days are to be Monday and Tuesday.It will scarcely escape your Lordship's penetration, that when Fox said recognition of the Prince's claimde jureto be the sole right and province of Parliament, implied an act of the House to debate, and, if to debate, to decide upon. So idle is genius! I see through the motive power: if Parliament has a right to confer power, it has a right to say what sort of power. So far Fox's penetration reached, and so he boldly denied the major of the proposition; and then, in a puzzle for consistency of popular attachment to good old rights of the Lords and Commons, and his subscription to the pillar at Runnymede, run into the contradiction of admitting the major in shape ofrecognitions. It is impossible yet to foresee what tergiversation will take place, or how many will sacrifice their principles to the rising sun; forgetting that apostacy to honest principles requires that there should be a transcendancy of merit of another sort—namely, of great ability to be useful to make that apostacy acceptable or the object of remuneration. Hating thetraitor and loving the treason, is a state maxim to be remembered by those whose treason is scarcely ever to be regarded while themselves are the objects of civil contempt. Yet some hold a language ofdoubt. One or two, whom I will not yet name, I told if they had not made up an opinion, they had better ask their constituents for one. It seems to me, that the business must close in a resort to the sense of the nation. In what shape such resort maypossibly, I think notprobably, be made, is serious indeed. But the violence of the faction of Fox portends every evil. Perhaps, however, and most likely, the resort to a new election, may give us time to grow cool, and close matters there. Adieu, for the day.Ever, my dear Lord, in truth and affection,Your devoted friend and servant,Wm. Young.
Stratton Street, Thursday, Dec. 11th, 1788.My dear Lord,
I did not receive your kind letter of Dec. 2nd, until my arrival last night from the House of Commons, when it was too late to write, and the conversation which then arose was of so important a nature, that it was not practicable or proper to steal a moment from the debate, or to send a line respecting it ere it was closed, and the subject took a decisive turn, which was after the post hour.
To a friendship so dear and honourable to me as yours, and shown me by so many instances of goodness, the best answer I can make is, through life, by a return of grateful attachment, honour, and disinterestedness; and in these, if I aught know myself, I shall never fail.
Of the momentous business opened last night, I can only say thatourastonishment is only to be equalled by the spirits we are in, on viewing the grounds Mr. Fox hath abandoned to us and leftour own. Lord Radnor, who breakfasted with me this morning, told me he understands that Fox's doctrine, "that the Prince of Wales was Regent, invested with full regal authority immediately andde jureon the incapacity, however temporary, of the King, and that the two Houses of Parliament had no right to debate thereon even," came fromthat constitutional lawyer, Lord Loughborough. Radnor's further remark, that Fox, having on a former occasion sought to trespass on the royal just prerogative, had now completed his attack on the Constitution, in denying the rights of Lords and Commons, is worthy observation. Talbot, who made one of my morning's levée, told me that at White's last night, all was hurra! and triumph. Charles Sturt and other youngsters took part at the bar, to echo the "Hear, hear," from Fitzpatrick and Burke, ofFox's doctrine; yet the "Hear, hear," was but little caught or repeated, though given loudly. Looking back to the history of this "Man of the People," and to his present conduct, in despite of his talents of logical discrimination, I begin almost to doubt whether his weakness or profligacy is transcendant. Pitt's language was most masterly and decisive; and has been done but little justice to in the papers of this day. The general tenor of subject they will give you, but what I have seen does not touch on the overthrow of Fox's resort to the doctrine that Parliament was of "Kings, Lords, and Commons; that no two branches thereof could makea law," by the just and constitutional distinction between the two Houses making a law, and the providing or giving efficiency to the third executive branch of Legislature in cases of defect, whatever it may be. The report of the physicians being ordered to be printed, will be out to-morrow, when I will send it, with a few remarks. Our great days are to be Monday and Tuesday.
It will scarcely escape your Lordship's penetration, that when Fox said recognition of the Prince's claimde jureto be the sole right and province of Parliament, implied an act of the House to debate, and, if to debate, to decide upon. So idle is genius! I see through the motive power: if Parliament has a right to confer power, it has a right to say what sort of power. So far Fox's penetration reached, and so he boldly denied the major of the proposition; and then, in a puzzle for consistency of popular attachment to good old rights of the Lords and Commons, and his subscription to the pillar at Runnymede, run into the contradiction of admitting the major in shape ofrecognitions. It is impossible yet to foresee what tergiversation will take place, or how many will sacrifice their principles to the rising sun; forgetting that apostacy to honest principles requires that there should be a transcendancy of merit of another sort—namely, of great ability to be useful to make that apostacy acceptable or the object of remuneration. Hating thetraitor and loving the treason, is a state maxim to be remembered by those whose treason is scarcely ever to be regarded while themselves are the objects of civil contempt. Yet some hold a language ofdoubt. One or two, whom I will not yet name, I told if they had not made up an opinion, they had better ask their constituents for one. It seems to me, that the business must close in a resort to the sense of the nation. In what shape such resort maypossibly, I think notprobably, be made, is serious indeed. But the violence of the faction of Fox portends every evil. Perhaps, however, and most likely, the resort to a new election, may give us time to grow cool, and close matters there. Adieu, for the day.
Ever, my dear Lord, in truth and affection,Your devoted friend and servant,Wm. Young.
LORD BULKELEY TO THE MARQUIS OF BUCKINGHAM.
Stanhope Street, Dec. 11th, 1788.My dear Lord,The scene here is a very busy one, and I never was so interested in any public measures in my life as in the support of Mr. Pitt and the King at this moment, looking upon it as my duty to do all in my power to stem the torrent of profligacy which the Opposition andtheir Kingseem determined to hazard with the good sense, decency, and character of the country. I really do see such things, and hear of such doings, that my tolerant spirit cannot forgive, and if you had not very good information of them, I should think myself bound to treat you with them. The Nevilles, Fortescues, Jemmy, and the General, being in town, we make a very strong corps together; and we are sent to White's every night to gain intelligence for our ladies, who are not a little animated in favour of the good cause. Charles Fox and Pitt were at issue yesterday in theHouse, when the former advanced the most extraordinary doctrines, considering his former opinions in the Whig Club and in Parliament on constitutional points. I hope the nation will see what lengths he is capable of going when it answers his purposes. I do not hear of many rats running as yet, except the Duke of Queensbury, Lord Brudenell, and W. Gerrard, Hamilton, and Sir Robert Smyth, but probably some more dirty dogs will follow them. The Chancellor seems very sour and crusty, and certainly does not like Pitt, but I cannot believe he will do otherwise than right on this momentous occasion.* * * * *We sat yesterday till eight, in the Lords, and thought Lord Camden imprudent in touching upon what had passed in the Commons the day before, as it gave the Opposition an excuse for being violent; it, however, had one good effect, that the Chancellor opened enough of his sentiments to show that he means to stand by his colleagues. His speech was not long, but one of the finest I ever heard, and made so strong an impression, that we gave him a merry "Hear, hear," which you know is not very frequent in the House of Lords. I think we shall carry the question of restrictions very powerfully in the Lords, as I hear of no rats but the Duke of Queensbury, the Duke of St. Albans, and Lord Rodney. In the Commons, a great deal will depend on the state of the King's health at the time the question comes on, and on the previous activity of Pitt and his two secretaries, in talking a little to dubious friends, which they have not time nor inclination to do, notwithstanding so much depends upon it.Adieu, my dear Lord. Our joint and kindest love and remembrance attend you both.Yours ever, &c.Pray order your secretary to send me word of the number and income of the tide-waiters' offices which you can spareme, as I have dependants enough if they are as highly paid in Ireland as in England. In the meantime I give you the name of John Thomas, for one of them. Did you ever promote one Alexander Gammach, tide-waiter at Belfast? Pray do before you quit Ireland.
Stanhope Street, Dec. 11th, 1788.My dear Lord,
The scene here is a very busy one, and I never was so interested in any public measures in my life as in the support of Mr. Pitt and the King at this moment, looking upon it as my duty to do all in my power to stem the torrent of profligacy which the Opposition andtheir Kingseem determined to hazard with the good sense, decency, and character of the country. I really do see such things, and hear of such doings, that my tolerant spirit cannot forgive, and if you had not very good information of them, I should think myself bound to treat you with them. The Nevilles, Fortescues, Jemmy, and the General, being in town, we make a very strong corps together; and we are sent to White's every night to gain intelligence for our ladies, who are not a little animated in favour of the good cause. Charles Fox and Pitt were at issue yesterday in theHouse, when the former advanced the most extraordinary doctrines, considering his former opinions in the Whig Club and in Parliament on constitutional points. I hope the nation will see what lengths he is capable of going when it answers his purposes. I do not hear of many rats running as yet, except the Duke of Queensbury, Lord Brudenell, and W. Gerrard, Hamilton, and Sir Robert Smyth, but probably some more dirty dogs will follow them. The Chancellor seems very sour and crusty, and certainly does not like Pitt, but I cannot believe he will do otherwise than right on this momentous occasion.
* * * * *
We sat yesterday till eight, in the Lords, and thought Lord Camden imprudent in touching upon what had passed in the Commons the day before, as it gave the Opposition an excuse for being violent; it, however, had one good effect, that the Chancellor opened enough of his sentiments to show that he means to stand by his colleagues. His speech was not long, but one of the finest I ever heard, and made so strong an impression, that we gave him a merry "Hear, hear," which you know is not very frequent in the House of Lords. I think we shall carry the question of restrictions very powerfully in the Lords, as I hear of no rats but the Duke of Queensbury, the Duke of St. Albans, and Lord Rodney. In the Commons, a great deal will depend on the state of the King's health at the time the question comes on, and on the previous activity of Pitt and his two secretaries, in talking a little to dubious friends, which they have not time nor inclination to do, notwithstanding so much depends upon it.
Adieu, my dear Lord. Our joint and kindest love and remembrance attend you both.
Yours ever, &c.
Pray order your secretary to send me word of the number and income of the tide-waiters' offices which you can spareme, as I have dependants enough if they are as highly paid in Ireland as in England. In the meantime I give you the name of John Thomas, for one of them. Did you ever promote one Alexander Gammach, tide-waiter at Belfast? Pray do before you quit Ireland.
MR. W. W. GRENVILLE TO THE MARQUIS OF BUCKINGHAM.
Whitehall, Dec. 11th, 1788.My dear Brother,You will, no doubt, be as much surprised as I was, to find that the notion of the Prince of Wales'srightwas brought forward yesterday by Fox in the House of Commons. It was a matter of no less astonishment to many of his own friends, who were by no means prepared for the assertion of such a doctrine. One should lose oneself in conjecture, by attempting to find out what motive can have induced him to take exactly the most unpopular ground on which their side of the question can be rested. I was not in the House; but I find there was an impression on our friends, that in his second speech he had rather seemed desirous of stating the proposition less strongly.Our present idea is, that it will be right, in consequence of this debate, that nothing should be moved on the first day (which, I think, cannot be till Wednesday) beyond the abstract proposition, as maintained by Pitt; namely, that in every case of suspension or interruption of the personal exercise of the royal authority, otherwise than by death, the care of making provision for the emergency rests with the two Houses of Parliament. These are not the words, but the substance. A stronger question we cannot desire.12th.—I intended to have sent this off to you yesterday; but was kept in the House of Lords till it was too late. You will see by the papers, better than I can pretend to retail it, what passed there. The doctrine, as stated by Lord Loughborough, was not quite so strong as Fox's; but is sufficiently so, to bereprobated by every lawyer in the country. Even Erskine says openly, that he cannot go this length.The idea is, and some words which Fox dropped yesterday in the House of Lords seem to confirm it, that whenever the report of our Committee of Precedents is made, which will probably be to-day, or, at latest, to-morrow, he intends to explain away his assertion, into the mere statement, that the Prince has such pretensions to a Regency as Parliament cannot overlook. Be this as it may, we are determined to state the right distinctly, by a resolution of the House, before we proceed to any other measures.Fortescue has this instant been with me, to say that he has heard a report, said to come from a considerable Oppositionist, that they have resolved, in consequence of the examinations and particularly Willis's, to accede to the proposed restrictions, for a short time, reserving to themselves the right of contending for more, should the continuance of the King's illness appear to give grounds to expect that it will be permanent. I do not think this by any means impossible, because the question will clearly go against them in the present moment; and this appearance of moderation may give them grounds at a more distant period. It is difficult, however, to conceive that they can make up their minds to wait so long without a greater struggle.Only think of Fox's want of judgment, to bring himself and them into such a scrape as he has done, by maintaining a doctrine of higher Tory principle than could have been found anywhere, since Sir Robert Sawyer's speeches.I enclose the examination of the physicians before our Committee. I am sorry to say, that the examination before the Lords is infinitely less decent and respectful, and goes into a variety of particulars, which, I am sure it will shock you to read, as it did me to hear them.Ever most affectionately yours,W. W. G.
Whitehall, Dec. 11th, 1788.My dear Brother,
You will, no doubt, be as much surprised as I was, to find that the notion of the Prince of Wales'srightwas brought forward yesterday by Fox in the House of Commons. It was a matter of no less astonishment to many of his own friends, who were by no means prepared for the assertion of such a doctrine. One should lose oneself in conjecture, by attempting to find out what motive can have induced him to take exactly the most unpopular ground on which their side of the question can be rested. I was not in the House; but I find there was an impression on our friends, that in his second speech he had rather seemed desirous of stating the proposition less strongly.
Our present idea is, that it will be right, in consequence of this debate, that nothing should be moved on the first day (which, I think, cannot be till Wednesday) beyond the abstract proposition, as maintained by Pitt; namely, that in every case of suspension or interruption of the personal exercise of the royal authority, otherwise than by death, the care of making provision for the emergency rests with the two Houses of Parliament. These are not the words, but the substance. A stronger question we cannot desire.
12th.—I intended to have sent this off to you yesterday; but was kept in the House of Lords till it was too late. You will see by the papers, better than I can pretend to retail it, what passed there. The doctrine, as stated by Lord Loughborough, was not quite so strong as Fox's; but is sufficiently so, to bereprobated by every lawyer in the country. Even Erskine says openly, that he cannot go this length.
The idea is, and some words which Fox dropped yesterday in the House of Lords seem to confirm it, that whenever the report of our Committee of Precedents is made, which will probably be to-day, or, at latest, to-morrow, he intends to explain away his assertion, into the mere statement, that the Prince has such pretensions to a Regency as Parliament cannot overlook. Be this as it may, we are determined to state the right distinctly, by a resolution of the House, before we proceed to any other measures.
Fortescue has this instant been with me, to say that he has heard a report, said to come from a considerable Oppositionist, that they have resolved, in consequence of the examinations and particularly Willis's, to accede to the proposed restrictions, for a short time, reserving to themselves the right of contending for more, should the continuance of the King's illness appear to give grounds to expect that it will be permanent. I do not think this by any means impossible, because the question will clearly go against them in the present moment; and this appearance of moderation may give them grounds at a more distant period. It is difficult, however, to conceive that they can make up their minds to wait so long without a greater struggle.
Only think of Fox's want of judgment, to bring himself and them into such a scrape as he has done, by maintaining a doctrine of higher Tory principle than could have been found anywhere, since Sir Robert Sawyer's speeches.
I enclose the examination of the physicians before our Committee. I am sorry to say, that the examination before the Lords is infinitely less decent and respectful, and goes into a variety of particulars, which, I am sure it will shock you to read, as it did me to hear them.
Ever most affectionately yours,W. W. G.
I do not know in what manner what Thurlow said about Ireland will be represented in the papers, not having seen them. It was so enveloped, that I, who heard it, could form no notion what his opinion is. In the debate in the House of Commons, I mean, for your sake, to state my principles on that subject distinctly.
Sir William Young, in the next letter, reports what was done on Pitt's motion for the Committee.
SIR WILLIAM YOUNG TO THE MARQUIS OF BUCKINGHAM.
House of Commons, Friday, Half-past Five, Dec, 12th, 1788.My dear Lord,Fox got up, on Mr. Pitt's having moved for a Committee to inquire into the state of the nation on Tuesday. Fox explained away much of the harshness of the doctrine ofrightin the Prince of Wales to assume the royal authority during the temporary incapacity of the King; but left all the substance of the doctrine. He then spoke his sentiments of what ought to be done, whatever the manner; namely, to recognize,or confer, as others might say,full regal authorityon the Prince, for the time of the King's incapacity. He then called on Pitt to relieve the nation from doubt, and give an opening of his plan.Pitt, in reply, stated the point of law and the Constitution yet to be at issue, thesubstanceof difference yet remaining, and that such great question could not be slurred over. It must be decided by Parliament, and should be the first subject of debate and decision; namely, for Tuesday. It was a question for themselves and for posterity. He then said, that the outline of his plan was, asmatter of discretionand conveniency, to appoint the Prince of Wales sole Regent, with no permanent council, with power to remove and make his Ministry at pleasure, and with all other regal powers necessary for giving force, dignity, and vigour to his Administration; but with no powers thatmight be needless, intrench on the Crown, and cause embarrassment on the King's recovery, &c.Our business for Tuesday, therefore, is thequestion of right.Pitt stands higher and higher in general estimation. As I passed the gallery to write this, Marquis of Townsend caught my arm, and said: "A glorious fellow, by G——, Young! His speech is that of an angel."Post bell rings.Yours ever,W. Y.
House of Commons, Friday, Half-past Five, Dec, 12th, 1788.My dear Lord,
Fox got up, on Mr. Pitt's having moved for a Committee to inquire into the state of the nation on Tuesday. Fox explained away much of the harshness of the doctrine ofrightin the Prince of Wales to assume the royal authority during the temporary incapacity of the King; but left all the substance of the doctrine. He then spoke his sentiments of what ought to be done, whatever the manner; namely, to recognize,or confer, as others might say,full regal authorityon the Prince, for the time of the King's incapacity. He then called on Pitt to relieve the nation from doubt, and give an opening of his plan.
Pitt, in reply, stated the point of law and the Constitution yet to be at issue, thesubstanceof difference yet remaining, and that such great question could not be slurred over. It must be decided by Parliament, and should be the first subject of debate and decision; namely, for Tuesday. It was a question for themselves and for posterity. He then said, that the outline of his plan was, asmatter of discretionand conveniency, to appoint the Prince of Wales sole Regent, with no permanent council, with power to remove and make his Ministry at pleasure, and with all other regal powers necessary for giving force, dignity, and vigour to his Administration; but with no powers thatmight be needless, intrench on the Crown, and cause embarrassment on the King's recovery, &c.
Our business for Tuesday, therefore, is thequestion of right.
Pitt stands higher and higher in general estimation. As I passed the gallery to write this, Marquis of Townsend caught my arm, and said: "A glorious fellow, by G——, Young! His speech is that of an angel."
Post bell rings.
Yours ever,W. Y.
MR. W. W. GRENVILLE TO THE MARQUIS OF BUCKINGHAM.
Whitehall, Dec. 13th, 1788.My dear Brother,I must refer you to the papers for an account of our triumphant day in the House of Commons yesterday. You will see by that, that I was not mistaken in my opinion that the doctrine of the Prince's right was not likely to be a very popular one. Fox found that by what he said before he had offended so many people, that he was obliged to take the very first moment of explaining it away; still, however, he has left it in such a shape that we cannot fail of debating it with great advantage. He intends, as you will see by his speech, to move the previous question on Pitt's proposition, which he is afraid to attempt to negative. After this recantation was over, the day was closed by such a blunder of Sheridan's, as I never knew any man of the meanest talents guilty of before. During the whole time that I have sat in Parliament, in pretty warm times, I never remember such an uproar as was raised by his threatening us withthe danger of provoking the Prince to assert his right, which were the exact words he used.You may conceive what advantage all this gives us, especially when coupled with the strong hopes entertained of the King's recovery. The account, as given at St. James's, is rather less favourable this morning. I do not well know how to account forthis circumstance, as the letters from persons immediately about the Queen continue as favourable as ever. I rather guess it to be Warren's malice against Willis, who was yesterday put into possession of many points which they had disputed with him, particularly the right of signing the reports. I imagine he was unwilling the first day of this to contest with Warren about the precise words.There is a report, which I heard yesterday before I went to the House, and which Fox's speech appeared to countenance, of their intending to acquiesce in the limitations, provided they are established only for a short time.The precise mode of carrying our propositions into effect is not yet settled. Our general idea is, that the two Houses should authorize the Chancellor to put the great seal to a Commission, empowering the Prince to open the session. And that then the propositions should then be brought forward in the shape of a Bill, to which the Prince may, by a similar Commission, be authorized to give the royal assent. We shall, however, in the course of two or three days have reduced this to form, and I will then send it over to you.Ever most affectionately yours,W. W. G.
Whitehall, Dec. 13th, 1788.My dear Brother,
I must refer you to the papers for an account of our triumphant day in the House of Commons yesterday. You will see by that, that I was not mistaken in my opinion that the doctrine of the Prince's right was not likely to be a very popular one. Fox found that by what he said before he had offended so many people, that he was obliged to take the very first moment of explaining it away; still, however, he has left it in such a shape that we cannot fail of debating it with great advantage. He intends, as you will see by his speech, to move the previous question on Pitt's proposition, which he is afraid to attempt to negative. After this recantation was over, the day was closed by such a blunder of Sheridan's, as I never knew any man of the meanest talents guilty of before. During the whole time that I have sat in Parliament, in pretty warm times, I never remember such an uproar as was raised by his threatening us withthe danger of provoking the Prince to assert his right, which were the exact words he used.
You may conceive what advantage all this gives us, especially when coupled with the strong hopes entertained of the King's recovery. The account, as given at St. James's, is rather less favourable this morning. I do not well know how to account forthis circumstance, as the letters from persons immediately about the Queen continue as favourable as ever. I rather guess it to be Warren's malice against Willis, who was yesterday put into possession of many points which they had disputed with him, particularly the right of signing the reports. I imagine he was unwilling the first day of this to contest with Warren about the precise words.
There is a report, which I heard yesterday before I went to the House, and which Fox's speech appeared to countenance, of their intending to acquiesce in the limitations, provided they are established only for a short time.
The precise mode of carrying our propositions into effect is not yet settled. Our general idea is, that the two Houses should authorize the Chancellor to put the great seal to a Commission, empowering the Prince to open the session. And that then the propositions should then be brought forward in the shape of a Bill, to which the Prince may, by a similar Commission, be authorized to give the royal assent. We shall, however, in the course of two or three days have reduced this to form, and I will then send it over to you.
Ever most affectionately yours,W. W. G.
The report alluded to above turned out to be true, which could be said of few of the reports that were so industriously circulated during the King's illness. The Prince's party, finding it impossible to get rid of the restrictions, were ready to enter into a compromise, and to agree to them, provided their duration was limited to a certain period. A Bill to that effect was afterwards introduced. But Ministers were not inclined to accept compromises when they had the power in their own hands to dictate conditions; and so the limited Regency scheme came to nothing.
SIR WILLIAM YOUNG TO THE MARQUIS OF BUCKINGHAM.
Stratton Street, Dec. 13th, 1788.My dear Lord,The account at St. James's this morning is, that the King had a quiet night; but that, on awaking, His Majesty was more unquiet than yesterday. Unless something very particular is noted in these official returns of the King's health, shall not in future transmit accounts so inconclusive to such a distance. The disorder in its nature is subject to intervals, and to variations which even a medical inquirer could not build upon, without being a witness to such vicissitudes of malady or having a recital of each minute symptom, and that with comments. Each authentic account, more in detail, as it comes to me you shall have; and then, too, the St. James's note as a corollary.After my note from the House of Commons—which, if your Lordship can read, I do not think I now could, such was the haste of scribble—Sheridan threw out the menace which the papers state, with Pitt's answer; the comment on which is, in the mouth of Opposition: "Pray, for God's sake, don't put a question, and urge it to a division, which will ruin our pretensions as Whigs if we do, as we must do, divide against it."On walking out this morning, the first thing that struck me, was a long row of handbills, stuck from one end to the other of the wall of Devonshire House; in which a few words ofFox for the Prince's prerogative, and of Pitt, in reply for privilege of Parliament and liberties of the nation, were not badly selected.We are likely to have a conversation in Parliament, I am pretty authentically informed, of even a more delicate nature than the last; John Rolle intending to bring forward his old subject of Mrs. Fitzherbert.Rolle and Sheridan had a whispering conference under the gallery for some minutes; the result of which, Sir J. Scott,Solicitor-General, with whom I dined, said he understood to be firmness on the part of Rolle, in his intention at a proper time to come forward.To our question of right, on Tuesday the previous question is expected from Opposition; and that they will be stronger on that point than any other, from having the timidity of some, co-operate with the interestedness of others. The list on that day will be worth marking. I trust we shall yet have a great majority of Parliament who will not submit to be dragooned out of their privileges and freedom by an Irish Brigade.Grattan is every day under the gallery, not admiring, I hope, the Captains Sheridan and Burke. I know not which side he leans to.Adieu, my dear Lord. My wife desires to forward her kindest wishes and best respects to the Marchioness, with your most affectionate and devoted friend's,W. Young.
Stratton Street, Dec. 13th, 1788.My dear Lord,
The account at St. James's this morning is, that the King had a quiet night; but that, on awaking, His Majesty was more unquiet than yesterday. Unless something very particular is noted in these official returns of the King's health, shall not in future transmit accounts so inconclusive to such a distance. The disorder in its nature is subject to intervals, and to variations which even a medical inquirer could not build upon, without being a witness to such vicissitudes of malady or having a recital of each minute symptom, and that with comments. Each authentic account, more in detail, as it comes to me you shall have; and then, too, the St. James's note as a corollary.
After my note from the House of Commons—which, if your Lordship can read, I do not think I now could, such was the haste of scribble—Sheridan threw out the menace which the papers state, with Pitt's answer; the comment on which is, in the mouth of Opposition: "Pray, for God's sake, don't put a question, and urge it to a division, which will ruin our pretensions as Whigs if we do, as we must do, divide against it."
On walking out this morning, the first thing that struck me, was a long row of handbills, stuck from one end to the other of the wall of Devonshire House; in which a few words ofFox for the Prince's prerogative, and of Pitt, in reply for privilege of Parliament and liberties of the nation, were not badly selected.
We are likely to have a conversation in Parliament, I am pretty authentically informed, of even a more delicate nature than the last; John Rolle intending to bring forward his old subject of Mrs. Fitzherbert.
Rolle and Sheridan had a whispering conference under the gallery for some minutes; the result of which, Sir J. Scott,Solicitor-General, with whom I dined, said he understood to be firmness on the part of Rolle, in his intention at a proper time to come forward.
To our question of right, on Tuesday the previous question is expected from Opposition; and that they will be stronger on that point than any other, from having the timidity of some, co-operate with the interestedness of others. The list on that day will be worth marking. I trust we shall yet have a great majority of Parliament who will not submit to be dragooned out of their privileges and freedom by an Irish Brigade.
Grattan is every day under the gallery, not admiring, I hope, the Captains Sheridan and Burke. I know not which side he leans to.
Adieu, my dear Lord. My wife desires to forward her kindest wishes and best respects to the Marchioness, with your most affectionate and devoted friend's,
W. Young.
MR. W. W. GRENVILLE TO THE MARQUIS OF BUCKINGHAM.
Whitehall, Dec. 14th, 1788.My dear Brother,I received this morning your letter of the 8th, and am very sorry that I am so hurried to-day as to make it absolutely impossible for me to enter into the subject which you discuss, in the manner which I should wish. You will collect from a former letter my general notions upon it, but I doubt whether those may not be considerably varied by the consideration which you suggest of being able to carry more for the King by remaining, than otherwise.I have had a good deal of conversation with Pitt on the subject. He promises me that he will, immediately after Tuesday, discuss it thoroughly with me, and enable me to send you his decided opinion how you ought to act. I find, from what he says, that he apprehends Lord Thurlow's opinion to becontrary to ours. This, however, seems immaterial, except with a view to future support, and, probably, cannot easily be brought to a point, as no Cabinet measure or instructions can be grounded upon it. The idea still continues of proceeding by Bill; and as we preface that with an assertion of the right in both Houses, it must still be a considerable time before any measure can come in question with respect to Ireland.I believe we shall word the proposition in a less abstract form, and apply it more particularly to this individual case, still, however, asserting the right.The account is less favourable to-day, notwithstanding that of yesterday. I saw a letter from Willis to Pitt, in which he said that the King "had passed the day calmly, and was, in other respects, much the same as yesterday."Ever most affectionately yours,W. W. G.
Whitehall, Dec. 14th, 1788.My dear Brother,
I received this morning your letter of the 8th, and am very sorry that I am so hurried to-day as to make it absolutely impossible for me to enter into the subject which you discuss, in the manner which I should wish. You will collect from a former letter my general notions upon it, but I doubt whether those may not be considerably varied by the consideration which you suggest of being able to carry more for the King by remaining, than otherwise.
I have had a good deal of conversation with Pitt on the subject. He promises me that he will, immediately after Tuesday, discuss it thoroughly with me, and enable me to send you his decided opinion how you ought to act. I find, from what he says, that he apprehends Lord Thurlow's opinion to becontrary to ours. This, however, seems immaterial, except with a view to future support, and, probably, cannot easily be brought to a point, as no Cabinet measure or instructions can be grounded upon it. The idea still continues of proceeding by Bill; and as we preface that with an assertion of the right in both Houses, it must still be a considerable time before any measure can come in question with respect to Ireland.
I believe we shall word the proposition in a less abstract form, and apply it more particularly to this individual case, still, however, asserting the right.
The account is less favourable to-day, notwithstanding that of yesterday. I saw a letter from Willis to Pitt, in which he said that the King "had passed the day calmly, and was, in other respects, much the same as yesterday."
Ever most affectionately yours,W. W. G.
MR. W. W. GRENVILLE TO THE MARQUIS OF BUCKINGHAM.
Whitehall, Dec. 15th, 1788.My dear Brother,I had yesterday some conversation with Pitt on the subject of your letter, which I had received in the morning.On the best consideration, we agreed that the line I before mentioned to you is the best which you ought to follow; that you should write a letter, to be delivered immediately upon the Prince of Wales being Regent, to state the doubts, to suggest the solution of Lords Justices, to desire His Royal Highness's commands upon the danger of giving offence here, by the appearing to raise difficulties in Ireland. This was agreed to be more proper, even to the King, than leaving them to open the Parliament. Pitt has received a very haughty letter from the Prince of Wales to Thurlow, complaining of his general behaviour to him, and of his not having had Pitt's plan communicated to him, and ordering Thurlow to require him to sendit to him in writing. Pitt has sent a respectful answer, disclaiming any disrespect to him; but saying that he does not think it proper to do this until the question of right has been discussed.It is reported that the four Princes of the blood met yesterday, and agreed to refuse the Regency under any limitations, and this is to be declared in the House of Commons to-morrow. I have reason to believe this to be true. Pitt saw the Queen yesterday; I do not know what passed, though I think he is satisfied.I enclose a letter from Camplin, upon which you must decide. I have not yet seen Captain Nugent, who has sent me a letter from you, but his business is wholly out of our cognizance.Ever most affectionately yours,W. W. G.When Pitt was at Kew he saw Willis, who told him that he did not think the difference in the King's state within these last two days, of the smallest importance. That this sort of fluctuation was naturally to be expected, and did not in any degree diminish his hopes, which are as sanguine as ever.
Whitehall, Dec. 15th, 1788.My dear Brother,
I had yesterday some conversation with Pitt on the subject of your letter, which I had received in the morning.
On the best consideration, we agreed that the line I before mentioned to you is the best which you ought to follow; that you should write a letter, to be delivered immediately upon the Prince of Wales being Regent, to state the doubts, to suggest the solution of Lords Justices, to desire His Royal Highness's commands upon the danger of giving offence here, by the appearing to raise difficulties in Ireland. This was agreed to be more proper, even to the King, than leaving them to open the Parliament. Pitt has received a very haughty letter from the Prince of Wales to Thurlow, complaining of his general behaviour to him, and of his not having had Pitt's plan communicated to him, and ordering Thurlow to require him to sendit to him in writing. Pitt has sent a respectful answer, disclaiming any disrespect to him; but saying that he does not think it proper to do this until the question of right has been discussed.
It is reported that the four Princes of the blood met yesterday, and agreed to refuse the Regency under any limitations, and this is to be declared in the House of Commons to-morrow. I have reason to believe this to be true. Pitt saw the Queen yesterday; I do not know what passed, though I think he is satisfied.
I enclose a letter from Camplin, upon which you must decide. I have not yet seen Captain Nugent, who has sent me a letter from you, but his business is wholly out of our cognizance.
Ever most affectionately yours,W. W. G.
When Pitt was at Kew he saw Willis, who told him that he did not think the difference in the King's state within these last two days, of the smallest importance. That this sort of fluctuation was naturally to be expected, and did not in any degree diminish his hopes, which are as sanguine as ever.
MR W. W. GRENVILLE TO THE MARQUIS OF BUCKINGHAM.
Whitehall, Dec. 17th, 1788.My dear Brother,I have nothing to add to what I said in my last letter, on the interesting subject of your situation and conduct in the events that may most reasonably be expected to arise. It appears, however, to me, to be of the utmost importance that you should not neglect for a moment taking the opinion of the law servants of the Crown in Ireland, with respect to the operation of a new patent granted by a Parliamentary Regent here, under the English Great Seal, previous to any proceeding having beenheld in Ireland. I have a real confidence in Fitzgibbon's honour; but I think this a point of much too great importance to yourself, to be vested on verbal opinions. You may, and I think ought, both to keep these written opinions secret, and to require them to do so; but as soon as you have received them, you should, I think, transmit them to Lord Sydney, to remain in his office. You will observe that the ground is now in some measure cleared for you by the declaration of right, which we came to last night, and which will certainly be agreed to by the House of Lords. I expected to have been able to send you an exact copy of the resolutions, but am disappointed. You will, however, probably see them in the "Morning Chronicle," if that comes out early enough for the post. The first states the fact of the King's present inability to attend to business, "and that thepersonal exerciseof the royal authority by His Majesty is thereby for the present interrupted."The second: "That it is the right and duty of the Lords and Commons (describing them as in the preamble to the Bill of Rights) to provide the means of supplying the defect in the personal exercise, &c., in such manner as the exigency of the case may appear to them to require."The third: "That for the above purpose, and for maintaining entire the constitutional authority of His Majesty, it is necessary that the said Lords and Commons should determine on the means by which the royal assent may be given in Parliament to such Bill as may be passed by the two Houses, respecting the exercise of the royal power, in the name and on the behalf of His Majesty, during the continuance of His Majesty's indisposition."I believe I have given you very nearly the words, which I ought to remember, having employed very near the whole of two days in settling them with Pitt and our lawyers.Our principle is, that the King's authority remains entire. That no legislative act can be done but with the formal sanction of his assent. That no person can take upon him togive that assent, except by the direction and authority of the two Houses, who have the right, in the present emergency, to act for the King; but must, even in doing that, adhere as nearly as possible to the forms of the Constitution.Fox opposed these resolutions, in one of the best speeches I ever heard from him; but I think indiscreetly supporting and enforcing all his old ground of the Prince of Wales's right. Towards the end, he made a violent personal attack on Pitt, intimating that he was desirous, through envy, to weaken the hands of thosewho were to be his successors. This opening was not neglected by Pitt, but laid hold of in a manner which enabled him to speak of his own conduct towards the King and the Prince, and towards the country in the present moment, and to contrast it with that of his opponents. I never heard a finer burst of eloquence, nor witnessed such an impression as it produced. But you will know all this better from the papers.The division exceeded our expectations. All the neutrals, and many of the wavering people, and some of the most timid of our friends, were against us, on the ground of the inexpediency of agitating this question. You will also naturally see that something is to be allowed for the impression of two Princes of the blood speaking; one of them to assure the country that the Prince of Wales would not urge this claim, and both beseeching, as a sort of personal point, that it might not be made necessary to come to a division upon the question. Still, however, the impression which the claim itself had made on the country, was such that it was a point of real duty to quiet people's minds upon it. But it cannot be surprising, that under all these circumstances, and under the fear of some unexplained danger, many people should be caught by a previous question. I was a little mortified at finding our friend Sir P. P. among these. I had no previous intimation of this till I saw him in the division, nor have I had any opportunity of conversing with him since. I am not sure that he did notthink he ought to have been a Lord of the Admiralty instead of Lord Hood. It is either that, or his intercourse with some of the Independents. On the whole, I think it better to leave him to himself, as I do not think I have sufficient influence over him to do any good, and the attempt might do harm. You know best how you stand in that respect. We have certainly no claim upon him beyond friendship and opinion.Lord Lonsdale's people were against us, in consequence of a letter, written by the Prince of Wales himself, soliciting it as a personal favour. This, which I knowfrom authority, may serve to give you an idea of the pains they had taken. They were so confident, that, on Sunday night, Fox assured the whole party, at a general meeting at Burlington House, that he had no doubt of beating us. I imagine that we are now sure of carrying our restrictions, and probably by a larger majority.Lord Loraine has separated himself from the Duke of N.; in consequence of which, Rainsforth has vacated. We do not know who comes in, but Lord Loraine says it is a friend.Gerard Hamilton is among the rats, which is no small amusement to me, who have frequently been abused by Pitt for my bad opinion of him, at the time that he was swallowing toadsà toute outrance. There are one or two more individual members in the House of Commons, but nobody of any consequence but the Duke of Queensbury, which, though everybody expected it, is nevertheless a thing that raises my indignation in no small degree.The popular opinion shows itself every day more and more, and I have no doubt you will hear of addresses, &c. Fox's declaration of the Prince of Wales's right has been of no small service to us. Is it not wonderful that such great talents should be conducted with so little judgment?Our mode of proceeding will now be to communicate theseresolutions to the Lords; and when they have concurred in them, then to bring forward the plan; and lastly, to authorize the Lord Chancellor to put the Great Seal to a commission to His Royal Highness, to empower him to open the Parliament, and afterwards to another (at least,Ithink they should be separate), authorizing him to give the royal assent to the Bill appointing him Regent.You will easily see, that all this will be no very short proceeding. In the meantime, the prospect of the King's recovery is daily growing more favourable. Willis and Addington have both said,separately, that his emotion at seeing the Queen for the first time, and his subsequent agitation, instead of being discouraging, were symptoms highly favourable. He is now quite calm; and at three o'clock yesterday, the account which came from Willis was, that he was better than at any time since his illness.It will be ridiculous if he should recover just in time to give the royaldissentto the Regency Bill—which is not impossible. The more probable supposition is, that they will just have time to parcel out the spoils, to dismiss us, and to hold their offices about a month; and so will end (if this should happen) the third reign of King Charles III.So little was said about Ireland, that it would have been an affectation in me to have talked about it; besides this, I had no opportunity of speaking that pleased me.Ever most affectionately yours,W. W. G.What I mentioned in my last about the four Princes, I nowknownot to be true with respect to the Duke of Gloucester, who has held aloof from all cabal with them, and even declared in the House of Lords that he had done so.
Whitehall, Dec. 17th, 1788.My dear Brother,
I have nothing to add to what I said in my last letter, on the interesting subject of your situation and conduct in the events that may most reasonably be expected to arise. It appears, however, to me, to be of the utmost importance that you should not neglect for a moment taking the opinion of the law servants of the Crown in Ireland, with respect to the operation of a new patent granted by a Parliamentary Regent here, under the English Great Seal, previous to any proceeding having beenheld in Ireland. I have a real confidence in Fitzgibbon's honour; but I think this a point of much too great importance to yourself, to be vested on verbal opinions. You may, and I think ought, both to keep these written opinions secret, and to require them to do so; but as soon as you have received them, you should, I think, transmit them to Lord Sydney, to remain in his office. You will observe that the ground is now in some measure cleared for you by the declaration of right, which we came to last night, and which will certainly be agreed to by the House of Lords. I expected to have been able to send you an exact copy of the resolutions, but am disappointed. You will, however, probably see them in the "Morning Chronicle," if that comes out early enough for the post. The first states the fact of the King's present inability to attend to business, "and that thepersonal exerciseof the royal authority by His Majesty is thereby for the present interrupted."
The second: "That it is the right and duty of the Lords and Commons (describing them as in the preamble to the Bill of Rights) to provide the means of supplying the defect in the personal exercise, &c., in such manner as the exigency of the case may appear to them to require."
The third: "That for the above purpose, and for maintaining entire the constitutional authority of His Majesty, it is necessary that the said Lords and Commons should determine on the means by which the royal assent may be given in Parliament to such Bill as may be passed by the two Houses, respecting the exercise of the royal power, in the name and on the behalf of His Majesty, during the continuance of His Majesty's indisposition."
I believe I have given you very nearly the words, which I ought to remember, having employed very near the whole of two days in settling them with Pitt and our lawyers.
Our principle is, that the King's authority remains entire. That no legislative act can be done but with the formal sanction of his assent. That no person can take upon him togive that assent, except by the direction and authority of the two Houses, who have the right, in the present emergency, to act for the King; but must, even in doing that, adhere as nearly as possible to the forms of the Constitution.
Fox opposed these resolutions, in one of the best speeches I ever heard from him; but I think indiscreetly supporting and enforcing all his old ground of the Prince of Wales's right. Towards the end, he made a violent personal attack on Pitt, intimating that he was desirous, through envy, to weaken the hands of thosewho were to be his successors. This opening was not neglected by Pitt, but laid hold of in a manner which enabled him to speak of his own conduct towards the King and the Prince, and towards the country in the present moment, and to contrast it with that of his opponents. I never heard a finer burst of eloquence, nor witnessed such an impression as it produced. But you will know all this better from the papers.
The division exceeded our expectations. All the neutrals, and many of the wavering people, and some of the most timid of our friends, were against us, on the ground of the inexpediency of agitating this question. You will also naturally see that something is to be allowed for the impression of two Princes of the blood speaking; one of them to assure the country that the Prince of Wales would not urge this claim, and both beseeching, as a sort of personal point, that it might not be made necessary to come to a division upon the question. Still, however, the impression which the claim itself had made on the country, was such that it was a point of real duty to quiet people's minds upon it. But it cannot be surprising, that under all these circumstances, and under the fear of some unexplained danger, many people should be caught by a previous question. I was a little mortified at finding our friend Sir P. P. among these. I had no previous intimation of this till I saw him in the division, nor have I had any opportunity of conversing with him since. I am not sure that he did notthink he ought to have been a Lord of the Admiralty instead of Lord Hood. It is either that, or his intercourse with some of the Independents. On the whole, I think it better to leave him to himself, as I do not think I have sufficient influence over him to do any good, and the attempt might do harm. You know best how you stand in that respect. We have certainly no claim upon him beyond friendship and opinion.
Lord Lonsdale's people were against us, in consequence of a letter, written by the Prince of Wales himself, soliciting it as a personal favour. This, which I knowfrom authority, may serve to give you an idea of the pains they had taken. They were so confident, that, on Sunday night, Fox assured the whole party, at a general meeting at Burlington House, that he had no doubt of beating us. I imagine that we are now sure of carrying our restrictions, and probably by a larger majority.
Lord Loraine has separated himself from the Duke of N.; in consequence of which, Rainsforth has vacated. We do not know who comes in, but Lord Loraine says it is a friend.
Gerard Hamilton is among the rats, which is no small amusement to me, who have frequently been abused by Pitt for my bad opinion of him, at the time that he was swallowing toadsà toute outrance. There are one or two more individual members in the House of Commons, but nobody of any consequence but the Duke of Queensbury, which, though everybody expected it, is nevertheless a thing that raises my indignation in no small degree.
The popular opinion shows itself every day more and more, and I have no doubt you will hear of addresses, &c. Fox's declaration of the Prince of Wales's right has been of no small service to us. Is it not wonderful that such great talents should be conducted with so little judgment?
Our mode of proceeding will now be to communicate theseresolutions to the Lords; and when they have concurred in them, then to bring forward the plan; and lastly, to authorize the Lord Chancellor to put the Great Seal to a commission to His Royal Highness, to empower him to open the Parliament, and afterwards to another (at least,Ithink they should be separate), authorizing him to give the royal assent to the Bill appointing him Regent.
You will easily see, that all this will be no very short proceeding. In the meantime, the prospect of the King's recovery is daily growing more favourable. Willis and Addington have both said,separately, that his emotion at seeing the Queen for the first time, and his subsequent agitation, instead of being discouraging, were symptoms highly favourable. He is now quite calm; and at three o'clock yesterday, the account which came from Willis was, that he was better than at any time since his illness.
It will be ridiculous if he should recover just in time to give the royaldissentto the Regency Bill—which is not impossible. The more probable supposition is, that they will just have time to parcel out the spoils, to dismiss us, and to hold their offices about a month; and so will end (if this should happen) the third reign of King Charles III.
So little was said about Ireland, that it would have been an affectation in me to have talked about it; besides this, I had no opportunity of speaking that pleased me.
Ever most affectionately yours,W. W. G.
What I mentioned in my last about the four Princes, I nowknownot to be true with respect to the Duke of Gloucester, who has held aloof from all cabal with them, and even declared in the House of Lords that he had done so.
MR. W. W. GRENVILLE TO THE MARQUIS OF BUCKINGHAM.
Whitehall, Dec. 19th, 1788.My dear Brother,I am very sorry that this letter must necessarily be so short, as I should have great pleasure if there was time to state to you the particulars of our triumph, and of the effect which it has produced, and which is indeed little less than miraculous. It certainly exceeded my expectations; but it was so infinitely beyond what our opponents had thought possible, that they are beat down by it beyond all description. I hope you will hear all this more particularly from others. I write now only for the purpose of sending you the following paragraph from a letter of Willis's to Pitt last night, which he showed me. W. is speaking of the effect of the blisters. He says: "From this, and from several other little occurrences in the course of these last three days, I am more than ever confirmed in my opinion that there can be no doubt of the King's entire recovery."I know the pleasure which this will give you, and therefore send it, though in great haste.Ever most affectionately yours,W. W. G.
Whitehall, Dec. 19th, 1788.My dear Brother,
I am very sorry that this letter must necessarily be so short, as I should have great pleasure if there was time to state to you the particulars of our triumph, and of the effect which it has produced, and which is indeed little less than miraculous. It certainly exceeded my expectations; but it was so infinitely beyond what our opponents had thought possible, that they are beat down by it beyond all description. I hope you will hear all this more particularly from others. I write now only for the purpose of sending you the following paragraph from a letter of Willis's to Pitt last night, which he showed me. W. is speaking of the effect of the blisters. He says: "From this, and from several other little occurrences in the course of these last three days, I am more than ever confirmed in my opinion that there can be no doubt of the King's entire recovery."
I know the pleasure which this will give you, and therefore send it, though in great haste.
Ever most affectionately yours,W. W. G.
MR. W. W. GRENVILLE TO THE MARQUIS OF BUCKINGHAM.
Whitehall, Dec. 21st, 1788.My dear Brother,I have delayed writing for these two or three last days, in hopes of being able to give you an account of the event of our second division, which has, as you will have seen, been deferred from day to day, and now is finally fixed for to-morrow. The adjournment on Friday was necessary, on account of Pitt's health. He had entirely lost the use of his voice by a cold, sothat he could not have spoken five sentences together, and he was in other respects much exhausted. Our friends were a little chagrined at the delay; but it was unavoidable, and will not, I hope, be productive of any inconvenience.Our next question is not a pleasant one. It turns on an abstruse maxim of law, which makes it necessary for us to take a very circuitous mode of doing a very plain thing. The necessity of it is forced upon us by our lawyers, whom we could not otherwise have satisfied, with regard to the second proposition which we have voted. I am indeed convinced, that, in strict law, they are right, and that the mode now proposed is the regular and proper mode of doing what is required to be done. At the same time, it would have been more agreeable to have had a more familiar and obvious measure to defend in such an assembly as the House of Commons.We shall probably lose some individuals, both on this question, and on the subsequent question of restrictions; but we have some new recruits, who were absent by sickness, or other accidents; so that, on the whole, I hope the difference will not be considerable, though nothing can exceed their industry in canvassing, except the open manner in which they offer every sort of bribe.We have some idea of making the restrictions temporary, by which means they will certainly be much more palatable. You will observe that almost all the physicians seem to point out the probability of his recovering within a year or a year and a half, if at all. This seems to afford a real ground of expediency, besides giving a strong topic of argument for imposing the restrictions only for a similar time. This point is, however, not yet determined.The accounts from Windsor for the last week, though they have varied, are yet, on the whole, less favourable than before. Willis ascribes this entirely to the effect of the blisters, whichgive him great pain; and Willis saysthatis, on the whole, by no means an unfavourable symptom. The effect, however, which these accounts produce here, is injurious to us, and must be the same in Ireland. Our solid ground of hope does not appear to be in the smallest degree weakened.You will see in the Opposition papers that they are beginning to abuse the Queen in the most open and scandalous manner. I collect from this that they have some information, on which they can depend, with respect to her sentiments, and I conjecture that they are such as we could wish.If we were together, I could tell you some particulars of the Prince of Wales's behaviour towards the King and her, within these few days, that would make your blood run cold; but I dare not commit them to paper, because of my informant.
Whitehall, Dec. 21st, 1788.My dear Brother,
I have delayed writing for these two or three last days, in hopes of being able to give you an account of the event of our second division, which has, as you will have seen, been deferred from day to day, and now is finally fixed for to-morrow. The adjournment on Friday was necessary, on account of Pitt's health. He had entirely lost the use of his voice by a cold, sothat he could not have spoken five sentences together, and he was in other respects much exhausted. Our friends were a little chagrined at the delay; but it was unavoidable, and will not, I hope, be productive of any inconvenience.
Our next question is not a pleasant one. It turns on an abstruse maxim of law, which makes it necessary for us to take a very circuitous mode of doing a very plain thing. The necessity of it is forced upon us by our lawyers, whom we could not otherwise have satisfied, with regard to the second proposition which we have voted. I am indeed convinced, that, in strict law, they are right, and that the mode now proposed is the regular and proper mode of doing what is required to be done. At the same time, it would have been more agreeable to have had a more familiar and obvious measure to defend in such an assembly as the House of Commons.
We shall probably lose some individuals, both on this question, and on the subsequent question of restrictions; but we have some new recruits, who were absent by sickness, or other accidents; so that, on the whole, I hope the difference will not be considerable, though nothing can exceed their industry in canvassing, except the open manner in which they offer every sort of bribe.
We have some idea of making the restrictions temporary, by which means they will certainly be much more palatable. You will observe that almost all the physicians seem to point out the probability of his recovering within a year or a year and a half, if at all. This seems to afford a real ground of expediency, besides giving a strong topic of argument for imposing the restrictions only for a similar time. This point is, however, not yet determined.
The accounts from Windsor for the last week, though they have varied, are yet, on the whole, less favourable than before. Willis ascribes this entirely to the effect of the blisters, whichgive him great pain; and Willis saysthatis, on the whole, by no means an unfavourable symptom. The effect, however, which these accounts produce here, is injurious to us, and must be the same in Ireland. Our solid ground of hope does not appear to be in the smallest degree weakened.
You will see in the Opposition papers that they are beginning to abuse the Queen in the most open and scandalous manner. I collect from this that they have some information, on which they can depend, with respect to her sentiments, and I conjecture that they are such as we could wish.
If we were together, I could tell you some particulars of the Prince of Wales's behaviour towards the King and her, within these few days, that would make your blood run cold; but I dare not commit them to paper, because of my informant.
The demands of the Opposition appear to have risen and fallen with the bulletins; and according as the King was better or worse, the resistance to the limitations was faint or violent. The conduct pursued by the Prince's party to obtain votes and strengthen their parliamentary influence, is not shown in a very favourable light.
SIR WILLIAM YOUNG TO THE MARQUIS OF BUCKINGHAM.
Stratton Street,Monday, Dec. 22nd, 1788.My dear Lord,I should scarcely venture to anticipate a subject, the event of which within twenty-four hours may belie any pretensions of political sagacity, might not the difference of one day's post from London eventually delay your receiving a letter for a week, should wind and sea prove perverse, as when I passed my Christmas at Holyhead. This, and the anxiety for intelligence, which must necessarily arise from the suggestion in my note ofSaturday, induces me to pursue the matter I then opened, and the more especially as the circumstance, I foresaw, is now more than likely to occur. As I purpose closing this letter at the House of Commons, and the last moment which the post may allow me, I shall have to transmit fact in lieu of probability; at present, I state briefly my grounds for the latter—namely, that the specific great question, whether the Prince shall be Regent without any limitations, and invested with the full prerogatives of royalty, will be agitated and decided upon this Monday night. The turn of debate and temper of the House on Friday, which induced me to suppose such question might be pressed upon us, have induced others to press it. This morning a printed paper hath been sent to certain members, containing a motion for addressing, and an address at length to the Prince, corroborating what Mr. Steele told me yesterday, thatFox'sparty had some design in view for Monday. Letters having been sent in Fox's name to several members, requesting attendance andan answer; and that Mr. Pitt had written in like manner to such as he apprehended might be withdrawing for the Christmas holidays, with the same unusual requestof answer. Two of these letters (pretty long), to Sir H. Hoghton and to Mr. Pye, I afterwards had the perusal of.The true friendly language, and which I openly hold, is that we shall be stronger on the division than before; such language is proper, because ordinary men consider numbers as a shelter for their opinions and conduct, and some even consider it as the test of truth. But this language hath not its origin in my judgment and feelings. There are circumstances which impress great doubt on my mind, whether the division can be so favourable to our wishes, as was the last. Taking the data of the examination of the physicians, the King's recovery therein presumed, gives a vantage-ground in argument for limitations. But I am sorry to say this ground is now shaken: the public is no longer sanguine in hopes, medical gentlemen have generallyconspired to render the object of recovery much more doubtful at least, and the physicians about the King have had dissensions and disputes amongst themselves. It is now rumoured that Dr. Warren wishes to be re-examined. All this is indeed not before the House of Commons, and the report of the physicians is; I think, therefore, that though not so decisive, we yet shall have a considerable majority on the premises; but even for this dependant on other considerations—namely, how far apprehensions of the King's actual demise may operate from, I believe, the faithful report of the day, that a fever is come on, and that for a day or two past the King has had a constant sweating of the head, to which he was at no time before accustomed. According to wishes or fears, men construe this crisis to portend health or decease; the political effect in the alternative, being in the first case uncertain, in the second case certain. The bent of this is against us, as few narrow motives and personal considerations may extend and favour the active spirit of subornation which stalks in open day, with each hand full of patents of honour and purses of money. Offers have been so prodigal that not fifty years of patronage could accomplish the performance. Those gentlemen who have rejected these kind tenders of service speak openly, and no notice is taken. In these moments of public curiosity, it may not be so well to trust names to a letter. I could give you several.The bearing of this letter is thus unfavourable to this night's debate terminatingfullyas we could wish, though yet I thinkfor us. Having thus far written, I shall pocket my paper for the purpose of adding what I can at the House of Commons.House of Commons,Half-past Five, Monday, Dec. 22nd, 1788.I dined at three, at a coffee-house, with my cousin, old William Lawrence, who called on me; Smith, member for Sudbury, leader of the Dissenters, joined us on the walk, andwas of our dinner party. Lawrence said he wished a compromise, alimited regency for a year, and then to take up the business anew, if the King was not recovered, on the other ground, andheis a leading country gentleman of their party, Smith is in an unqualified manner with us; and Thornton, whose place in the House is next to me, being equally staunch, I augur that we have all the Dissenters' interest with us. Indeed, generally speaking, the House looks better for us than I expected, and I doubt not our majority, yet thinking it will not be great; indeed the House is not nearly so full as it was on the late question, and the apprehensions I set out with of temporizers and shirkers, as we called them at Eton, seem confirmed.Edmund Burke arose a little after four, and is speaking yet. He has been wilder than ever, and laid himself and party open more than ever speaker did. He is Folly personified, but shaking his cap and bells under the laurel of genius; among other things, he said Mr. Pitt's proposals could not be adopted, as gentlemen, ascavaliers: the word will not be forgot.Fox is present, but looks very ill. Pitt looks recovered. Your brother in high glee at Burke. Burke stated the Chancellor to be like to the God Priapus, and Pitt the carpenter. He run his idea to a charming extravagance, and finished by declaring that "he could not be a votary to Priapus, the false God!vid.Horace, &c."The question is an amendment of Dempster's, to follow; the Lords and Commons, &c., determine "to address the Prince of Wales, to take on him the Regency, &c."Adieu, my dear Lord. Your Marchioness in health, and a boy, and yourself in all good that Providence can dispense, is the prayer of your most faithfully affectionate and devoted friend, &c.W. Young.Six o'clock.
Stratton Street,Monday, Dec. 22nd, 1788.My dear Lord,
I should scarcely venture to anticipate a subject, the event of which within twenty-four hours may belie any pretensions of political sagacity, might not the difference of one day's post from London eventually delay your receiving a letter for a week, should wind and sea prove perverse, as when I passed my Christmas at Holyhead. This, and the anxiety for intelligence, which must necessarily arise from the suggestion in my note ofSaturday, induces me to pursue the matter I then opened, and the more especially as the circumstance, I foresaw, is now more than likely to occur. As I purpose closing this letter at the House of Commons, and the last moment which the post may allow me, I shall have to transmit fact in lieu of probability; at present, I state briefly my grounds for the latter—namely, that the specific great question, whether the Prince shall be Regent without any limitations, and invested with the full prerogatives of royalty, will be agitated and decided upon this Monday night. The turn of debate and temper of the House on Friday, which induced me to suppose such question might be pressed upon us, have induced others to press it. This morning a printed paper hath been sent to certain members, containing a motion for addressing, and an address at length to the Prince, corroborating what Mr. Steele told me yesterday, thatFox'sparty had some design in view for Monday. Letters having been sent in Fox's name to several members, requesting attendance andan answer; and that Mr. Pitt had written in like manner to such as he apprehended might be withdrawing for the Christmas holidays, with the same unusual requestof answer. Two of these letters (pretty long), to Sir H. Hoghton and to Mr. Pye, I afterwards had the perusal of.
The true friendly language, and which I openly hold, is that we shall be stronger on the division than before; such language is proper, because ordinary men consider numbers as a shelter for their opinions and conduct, and some even consider it as the test of truth. But this language hath not its origin in my judgment and feelings. There are circumstances which impress great doubt on my mind, whether the division can be so favourable to our wishes, as was the last. Taking the data of the examination of the physicians, the King's recovery therein presumed, gives a vantage-ground in argument for limitations. But I am sorry to say this ground is now shaken: the public is no longer sanguine in hopes, medical gentlemen have generallyconspired to render the object of recovery much more doubtful at least, and the physicians about the King have had dissensions and disputes amongst themselves. It is now rumoured that Dr. Warren wishes to be re-examined. All this is indeed not before the House of Commons, and the report of the physicians is; I think, therefore, that though not so decisive, we yet shall have a considerable majority on the premises; but even for this dependant on other considerations—namely, how far apprehensions of the King's actual demise may operate from, I believe, the faithful report of the day, that a fever is come on, and that for a day or two past the King has had a constant sweating of the head, to which he was at no time before accustomed. According to wishes or fears, men construe this crisis to portend health or decease; the political effect in the alternative, being in the first case uncertain, in the second case certain. The bent of this is against us, as few narrow motives and personal considerations may extend and favour the active spirit of subornation which stalks in open day, with each hand full of patents of honour and purses of money. Offers have been so prodigal that not fifty years of patronage could accomplish the performance. Those gentlemen who have rejected these kind tenders of service speak openly, and no notice is taken. In these moments of public curiosity, it may not be so well to trust names to a letter. I could give you several.
The bearing of this letter is thus unfavourable to this night's debate terminatingfullyas we could wish, though yet I thinkfor us. Having thus far written, I shall pocket my paper for the purpose of adding what I can at the House of Commons.
House of Commons,Half-past Five, Monday, Dec. 22nd, 1788.
I dined at three, at a coffee-house, with my cousin, old William Lawrence, who called on me; Smith, member for Sudbury, leader of the Dissenters, joined us on the walk, andwas of our dinner party. Lawrence said he wished a compromise, alimited regency for a year, and then to take up the business anew, if the King was not recovered, on the other ground, andheis a leading country gentleman of their party, Smith is in an unqualified manner with us; and Thornton, whose place in the House is next to me, being equally staunch, I augur that we have all the Dissenters' interest with us. Indeed, generally speaking, the House looks better for us than I expected, and I doubt not our majority, yet thinking it will not be great; indeed the House is not nearly so full as it was on the late question, and the apprehensions I set out with of temporizers and shirkers, as we called them at Eton, seem confirmed.
Edmund Burke arose a little after four, and is speaking yet. He has been wilder than ever, and laid himself and party open more than ever speaker did. He is Folly personified, but shaking his cap and bells under the laurel of genius; among other things, he said Mr. Pitt's proposals could not be adopted, as gentlemen, ascavaliers: the word will not be forgot.
Fox is present, but looks very ill. Pitt looks recovered. Your brother in high glee at Burke. Burke stated the Chancellor to be like to the God Priapus, and Pitt the carpenter. He run his idea to a charming extravagance, and finished by declaring that "he could not be a votary to Priapus, the false God!vid.Horace, &c."
The question is an amendment of Dempster's, to follow; the Lords and Commons, &c., determine "to address the Prince of Wales, to take on him the Regency, &c."
Adieu, my dear Lord. Your Marchioness in health, and a boy, and yourself in all good that Providence can dispense, is the prayer of your most faithfully affectionate and devoted friend, &c.
W. Young.Six o'clock.
SIR WILLIAM YOUNG TO THE MARQUIS OF BUCKINGHAM.
Tuesday, Dec. 23rd, 1788.My dear Lord,Never did any debate of nice discussion go off better in our eye than that of last night: never was I more agreeably surprised than by the result—having gained nine on our former majority. The House was thinner by forty at twelve at night, than the debate before at three in the morning. The shirkers I alluded to may now come in, and we may augur our future divisions to be yet stronger and more decisive: our rats having all shown their tails on last night's motion to address the Prince.Sir John Aubrey, rat-major, receiving his emoluments of the Treasury for five years, and declaring himself unconnected with any, afforded a subject of general laugh. Master Popham, Sir Samuel Hurmery, James Macpherson, W.G. Hamilton, &c., &c., followed the illustrious Aubrey. Fox, after Pitt's reply, and his own rejoinder, paired off with Stevens of the Admiralty. The Marquis of Lansdowne's friends, Barré, &c., were with us. Masham, voting for the Address, declared himself not precluded thereby from voting for limitations. Drake, on the same head, not to preclude himself, left the House. We shall, therefore, have thosetwo. Sir John Scott spoke with such learning, truth, and uncommon energy of reasoning and language, that he carried the House with him, and extorted from Lord North, in particular, the highest compliments ever paid to a lawyer in the House of Commons. I never heard Fox speak so temperately, or better, in point of argument. Pitt, in reply, was equally great. He stated, to conviction, "the fiction of the law, which admitted the application of the royal political authority, when the personal was disabled, as implicated in the very principles of hereditary succession, which otherwise would suffer interruption fromnonage, infirmity, dotage, and every contingency in the state of man." Sheridan spoke very ill: very hot, injudicious, andill-heard. Rolle, whilst adverting to Sheridan's speech, made use of a remarkable expression, and which seems to hint some future acting up to the rumours of his purpose. He said that in proper time, "He should heartily vote for the Prince's being Regent,ifthe Prince had done no act by which he had forfeited pretensions to executive government in this country."Our resolutions being carried to the Lords, in conference this day, on Friday next the Lords will debate thereon. Lords Townshend, Romney, Radnor, and many other occasional opponents, I understand to be decidedly with us on the second Whig resolution.In speaking of our debate, I had forgot Burke, who, after I finished my last night's letter, finished his wild speech in a manner next to madness. He let out two of the new titles—Fitzwilliam to be Marquis of Rockingham, and Lord G. Cavendish, jun. His party pulled him, and our friends calling "Hear, hear," we lost the rest of the twenty-five new Peers, who would all have come out.For the King's health, the world is yet in expectation of some crisis. The St. James's notes of last night "quiet," or "unquiet," are disregarded, as too general, or as of course; and accounts from ladies about the Queen, and from the physicians themselves, pass in the greater circles, still mentioning violent intermitting fevers, and profuse occasional perspirations. Having generally, in my last, stated that the faculty had conspired to render the public less sanguine, I mention toyour Lordship onlywhat T. Warner, above seventy years of age, and forty years first surgeon of Guy's and St. Thomas's Hospitals, told me, "Being at the head of these city hospitals, he has been often called in to meet the physicians of Bethlem, where a surgeon for scalping, &c., was required, and that a madness after fifty, without a clear assignable cause—and that cause tobe reached by surgery or medicine—did not admit a perfect recovery above one time in an hundred." The opinions of many others of the faculty are bandied about; but, as matter of conversation for your private ear, I give this particular one as authentically coming to my own knowledge.You'll observe in this day's papers, a meeting advertised of the bankers. It is understood to be for the purpose of tendering W. Pitt, on his going out of office, a transfer of £3000 per annum, Bank Stock, or a principal of £50,000, in the name of the commercial world.Adieu, my dear Lord. Health and prosperity be yours, and be assured that you have no one more devotedly attached than your most affectionate and obliged friend and servant,W. Young.
Tuesday, Dec. 23rd, 1788.My dear Lord,
Never did any debate of nice discussion go off better in our eye than that of last night: never was I more agreeably surprised than by the result—having gained nine on our former majority. The House was thinner by forty at twelve at night, than the debate before at three in the morning. The shirkers I alluded to may now come in, and we may augur our future divisions to be yet stronger and more decisive: our rats having all shown their tails on last night's motion to address the Prince.
Sir John Aubrey, rat-major, receiving his emoluments of the Treasury for five years, and declaring himself unconnected with any, afforded a subject of general laugh. Master Popham, Sir Samuel Hurmery, James Macpherson, W.G. Hamilton, &c., &c., followed the illustrious Aubrey. Fox, after Pitt's reply, and his own rejoinder, paired off with Stevens of the Admiralty. The Marquis of Lansdowne's friends, Barré, &c., were with us. Masham, voting for the Address, declared himself not precluded thereby from voting for limitations. Drake, on the same head, not to preclude himself, left the House. We shall, therefore, have thosetwo. Sir John Scott spoke with such learning, truth, and uncommon energy of reasoning and language, that he carried the House with him, and extorted from Lord North, in particular, the highest compliments ever paid to a lawyer in the House of Commons. I never heard Fox speak so temperately, or better, in point of argument. Pitt, in reply, was equally great. He stated, to conviction, "the fiction of the law, which admitted the application of the royal political authority, when the personal was disabled, as implicated in the very principles of hereditary succession, which otherwise would suffer interruption fromnonage, infirmity, dotage, and every contingency in the state of man." Sheridan spoke very ill: very hot, injudicious, andill-heard. Rolle, whilst adverting to Sheridan's speech, made use of a remarkable expression, and which seems to hint some future acting up to the rumours of his purpose. He said that in proper time, "He should heartily vote for the Prince's being Regent,ifthe Prince had done no act by which he had forfeited pretensions to executive government in this country."
Our resolutions being carried to the Lords, in conference this day, on Friday next the Lords will debate thereon. Lords Townshend, Romney, Radnor, and many other occasional opponents, I understand to be decidedly with us on the second Whig resolution.
In speaking of our debate, I had forgot Burke, who, after I finished my last night's letter, finished his wild speech in a manner next to madness. He let out two of the new titles—Fitzwilliam to be Marquis of Rockingham, and Lord G. Cavendish, jun. His party pulled him, and our friends calling "Hear, hear," we lost the rest of the twenty-five new Peers, who would all have come out.
For the King's health, the world is yet in expectation of some crisis. The St. James's notes of last night "quiet," or "unquiet," are disregarded, as too general, or as of course; and accounts from ladies about the Queen, and from the physicians themselves, pass in the greater circles, still mentioning violent intermitting fevers, and profuse occasional perspirations. Having generally, in my last, stated that the faculty had conspired to render the public less sanguine, I mention toyour Lordship onlywhat T. Warner, above seventy years of age, and forty years first surgeon of Guy's and St. Thomas's Hospitals, told me, "Being at the head of these city hospitals, he has been often called in to meet the physicians of Bethlem, where a surgeon for scalping, &c., was required, and that a madness after fifty, without a clear assignable cause—and that cause tobe reached by surgery or medicine—did not admit a perfect recovery above one time in an hundred." The opinions of many others of the faculty are bandied about; but, as matter of conversation for your private ear, I give this particular one as authentically coming to my own knowledge.
You'll observe in this day's papers, a meeting advertised of the bankers. It is understood to be for the purpose of tendering W. Pitt, on his going out of office, a transfer of £3000 per annum, Bank Stock, or a principal of £50,000, in the name of the commercial world.
Adieu, my dear Lord. Health and prosperity be yours, and be assured that you have no one more devotedly attached than your most affectionate and obliged friend and servant,
W. Young.
MR. W. W. GRENVILLE TO THE MARQUIS OF BUCKINGHAM.