Englefield Green, Nov. 6, 1821.My dear Lord,You may depend upon it there is no truth whatever in the supposed difference between the chief and his love. I know it has been said, but the attachment is as strong as ever, and the influence as great. He is expected in the course of a few days, and I have no doubtstillthat the arrangement will take place soon, and that he will not have courage to change his Government. He is to come to the Cottage here for a few days, and it is said is then to go to Brighton. Lord St. Helens is now passing a few days with me, and his language is, the necessity of strengthening the Government, and the impossibility of changing it, and if one could believe him, the impossibility of the latter. I see, however, Lord Lansdowne is just arrived from Paris, and none of his friends or anything but the actual Mountains have subscribed to Wilson.What a horrid circumstance the death of Lady Elz. Stanhope: she was walking in the garden with Mrs. Arthur Stanhope, and dropped down—never spoke afterwards. They were going the next day to Fawsley.Ever most truly yours,W. H. Fremantle.
Englefield Green, Nov. 6, 1821.
My dear Lord,
You may depend upon it there is no truth whatever in the supposed difference between the chief and his love. I know it has been said, but the attachment is as strong as ever, and the influence as great. He is expected in the course of a few days, and I have no doubtstillthat the arrangement will take place soon, and that he will not have courage to change his Government. He is to come to the Cottage here for a few days, and it is said is then to go to Brighton. Lord St. Helens is now passing a few days with me, and his language is, the necessity of strengthening the Government, and the impossibility of changing it, and if one could believe him, the impossibility of the latter. I see, however, Lord Lansdowne is just arrived from Paris, and none of his friends or anything but the actual Mountains have subscribed to Wilson.
What a horrid circumstance the death of Lady Elz. Stanhope: she was walking in the garden with Mrs. Arthur Stanhope, and dropped down—never spoke afterwards. They were going the next day to Fawsley.
Ever most truly yours,
W. H. Fremantle.
CHAPTER VI.[1821.]
THE GOVERNMENT. RUMOURED CHANGES. PROPOSALS. MR. CANNING. NEGOTIATIONS COMMENCED BY THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON FOR THE JUNCTION OF THE GRENVILLES WITH THE MINISTRY. REPORT OF CONVERSATION WITH LORD LIVERPOOL ON THE SUBJECT. PROPOSAL OF THE GOVERNMENT TO RAISE LORD BUCKINGHAM TO A DUKE. MARQUIS WELLESLEY AS LORD LIEUTENANT OF IRELAND. HIS OPINIONS ON THE CATHOLIC QUESTION. MR. W. C. PLUNKET ON IRISH AFFAIRS. LORD GRENVILLE ON THE PROPOSED ARRANGEMENTS. NEGOTIATIONS RESPECTING THE CATHOLIC QUESTION. THE MARQUIS OF HASTINGS.
CHAPTER VI.
The King returned from his Continental dominions about the middle of November. On the 16th his Majesty held a Court at Carlton Palace, to receive addresses from the Lord Mayor of London, the Court of Aldermen, and the Common Council. With his return recommenced the usual round of rumours affecting the stability of the Government; but, although there is no doubt it might have claimed the merit of being the best abused one in the world, the principal members of it, at least, held a perfectly secure position. Their conduct, particularly with respect to Sir Robert Wilson, excited Mr. Grenville's severe animadversions.
RIGHT HON. THOS. GRENVILLE TO THE MARQUIS OF BUCKINGHAM.
Cleveland Square, Nov. 7, 1821.My dear Lord B——,Your appropriation of the 5l.to the purchase of Strutt's "Engravers" was too late, as I had already paid the money to your account at Coutts's; moreover, that book can only be had by the chance of some sale, and I believe is worth about eight guineas when it is a tolerable good copy; mine, which is large paper, and therefore most commodious for illustrating, cost me sixteen guineas. I see you suppose me to carry my objections to the apologetic language of theCourierto a greater extent than is in my contemplation. Undoubtedly, the abstract right of Parliament to call upon Ministers as responsible for their advice in the exercise of the Royal prerogative, cannot be denied; but the more or less apologetic tone taken by them upon such questions is often of the highest importance. Their wretched fears for themselves—their unworthy submission to insult and indignity of every kind put upon them by the highest as well as the lowest—their abandonment of all that is due to the dignity and authority of the Executive Government, provided they are allowed to continue in the offices of it; all these circumstances have so lowered and degraded the Executive power that it would be difficult, even for a new administration of the most vigorous character, to restore all that is lost; and instead of any present effort to recover it, every day is a day of some new disgrace and indignity, and every topic of debate where Ministers should hold a high tone, and challenge the responsibility of their situations as advisers of the Crown, exhibits them crouching under the feet of the Radicals, and shrinking from the eminence on which they are placed, in the mean endeavour of interposing the authority of Parliament to shelter them from dangers which it is incumbent upon them to meet manfully; and this question of Sir R. W——, if timidly and apologetically met by them as it will be, may prove to be of the most dangerous importance, if it shall teach the officers and the privates of the army to look up to Sir F. B—— and to Sir R. W——, instead of looking up to the military authorities by which the army of a limited monarchy must be governed.No news of the K—— had arrived yesterday of later date than the 24th, and therefore all sort of reports were circulated of illness of every description, &c. &c.; but I have no reason to believe these reports have any foundation, as I have seen three or four persons who must, I think, have been informed if there had been any foundation for these strange rumours.
Cleveland Square, Nov. 7, 1821.
My dear Lord B——,
Your appropriation of the 5l.to the purchase of Strutt's "Engravers" was too late, as I had already paid the money to your account at Coutts's; moreover, that book can only be had by the chance of some sale, and I believe is worth about eight guineas when it is a tolerable good copy; mine, which is large paper, and therefore most commodious for illustrating, cost me sixteen guineas. I see you suppose me to carry my objections to the apologetic language of theCourierto a greater extent than is in my contemplation. Undoubtedly, the abstract right of Parliament to call upon Ministers as responsible for their advice in the exercise of the Royal prerogative, cannot be denied; but the more or less apologetic tone taken by them upon such questions is often of the highest importance. Their wretched fears for themselves—their unworthy submission to insult and indignity of every kind put upon them by the highest as well as the lowest—their abandonment of all that is due to the dignity and authority of the Executive Government, provided they are allowed to continue in the offices of it; all these circumstances have so lowered and degraded the Executive power that it would be difficult, even for a new administration of the most vigorous character, to restore all that is lost; and instead of any present effort to recover it, every day is a day of some new disgrace and indignity, and every topic of debate where Ministers should hold a high tone, and challenge the responsibility of their situations as advisers of the Crown, exhibits them crouching under the feet of the Radicals, and shrinking from the eminence on which they are placed, in the mean endeavour of interposing the authority of Parliament to shelter them from dangers which it is incumbent upon them to meet manfully; and this question of Sir R. W——, if timidly and apologetically met by them as it will be, may prove to be of the most dangerous importance, if it shall teach the officers and the privates of the army to look up to Sir F. B—— and to Sir R. W——, instead of looking up to the military authorities by which the army of a limited monarchy must be governed.
No news of the K—— had arrived yesterday of later date than the 24th, and therefore all sort of reports were circulated of illness of every description, &c. &c.; but I have no reason to believe these reports have any foundation, as I have seen three or four persons who must, I think, have been informed if there had been any foundation for these strange rumours.
MR. HENRY W. WYNN TO THE MARQUIS OF BUCKINGHAM.
Llanwnda, Nov. 11, 1821.My dear Lord B——,I take joy on the King's safe return, and I trust that he will now give himself time to settle something respecting his Administration. If report be true, he was not in the best of humours when he started from Hanover, and this is not likely to have been improved by German schwagers and roads, unless, indeed, he spent the whole of it on his cousin of Hesse Cassel. I fear that there was not time for his Majesty to find a German countess with more patient ears and sounder form than the Marchioness, and till then I cannot conceive that her influence is on the decline, particularly as no quarrel or coldness is likely to have taken place by letter. Her folly and rapacity will sooner or later have their effect.If Ministers are sincere in their professions to you, they cannot allow any further delay on the part of the King, and a fortnight will show what his determination is.Ever yours, most affectionately,H. W. W.
Llanwnda, Nov. 11, 1821.
My dear Lord B——,
I take joy on the King's safe return, and I trust that he will now give himself time to settle something respecting his Administration. If report be true, he was not in the best of humours when he started from Hanover, and this is not likely to have been improved by German schwagers and roads, unless, indeed, he spent the whole of it on his cousin of Hesse Cassel. I fear that there was not time for his Majesty to find a German countess with more patient ears and sounder form than the Marchioness, and till then I cannot conceive that her influence is on the decline, particularly as no quarrel or coldness is likely to have taken place by letter. Her folly and rapacity will sooner or later have their effect.
If Ministers are sincere in their professions to you, they cannot allow any further delay on the part of the King, and a fortnight will show what his determination is.
Ever yours, most affectionately,
H. W. W.
MR. W. H. FREMANTLE TO THE MARQUIS OF BUCKINGHAM.
Englefield Green, Nov. 16, 1821.My dear Lord,I must preach patience to you, and be assured it is no indisposition to you, or intentional affront or slight, that the thing rests at present as it is. I know that they cannot yet bring the King to any determination, and they are yet firmly resolved to adhere to their decision of resisting the nomination of Lord Conyngham, and of strengthening their Government. You must give them credit for doing the thing eventually, but they are obliged to judge the best manner. He will resist to the last moment, but I am fully persuaded he will and must ultimately give way. You have no right to feel indignant as long as you are not exclusively neglected; and my own opinion is, that Canning will not be recommended without you and your friends. I see he is in town, and sees Lord Liverpool constantly.The Verulams are here, and have been so some days. Her [Lady V——] language is, that Lord Liverpool will not remain in office if Lord Conyngham is appointed Chamberlain, or if his other arrangements are resisted; and she is loud in her abuse of the King's flirtations with the Opposition.He is come back disgusted with Germany; but the insults are all denied. He was bored to death at Hanover, and his pretended gout was a bore and a wish to get rid of his subjects. The Verulams are come from Lord Maryborough's, and their language is also his. Again I say that things look just the same towards you as they ever did, and you have the game in your hands. If the Government are foolish enough to try and tide through another session, I perfectly agree with you that your line should be to form a junction with Canning, who will no doubt then feel as indignant as you will do.The King has seen Lord Wellesley, and I have no doubt is trying to hatch up something through him, but it is quite impossible he can belong to the present Cabinet, and I therefore judge he is looking to a household employment; and there could be no objection to such an arrangement. But this is not the point; the point of the Government is the increase to their strength, and Lady Verulam told me (not knowing that I had heard the same thing from the Duke of W——) that Lord Liverpool, the Duke of Wellington, and Lord Londonderry were united and decided on this, and would not meet the Parliament without it. All this, you see, confirms our histories. If, after all, they surrender, one can only say what shabby fellows they are.As to the Opposition coming in, I don't believe the King will attempt it. Lord Lansdowne is gone out of town; Lord Londonderry is still in favour. The King does not come here, but goes to Brighton. I shall go to town for a day, and whatever I pick up you shall hear; but I earnestly recommend you not to push the thing, or to move one step, or to show your offence, but suffer the whole thing to proceed from themselves, and see the result. You will then stand on much better ground, and have the strongest complaint against the conduct of the Duke of Wellington.Believe me, ever yours,W. H. F.
Englefield Green, Nov. 16, 1821.
My dear Lord,
I must preach patience to you, and be assured it is no indisposition to you, or intentional affront or slight, that the thing rests at present as it is. I know that they cannot yet bring the King to any determination, and they are yet firmly resolved to adhere to their decision of resisting the nomination of Lord Conyngham, and of strengthening their Government. You must give them credit for doing the thing eventually, but they are obliged to judge the best manner. He will resist to the last moment, but I am fully persuaded he will and must ultimately give way. You have no right to feel indignant as long as you are not exclusively neglected; and my own opinion is, that Canning will not be recommended without you and your friends. I see he is in town, and sees Lord Liverpool constantly.
The Verulams are here, and have been so some days. Her [Lady V——] language is, that Lord Liverpool will not remain in office if Lord Conyngham is appointed Chamberlain, or if his other arrangements are resisted; and she is loud in her abuse of the King's flirtations with the Opposition.
He is come back disgusted with Germany; but the insults are all denied. He was bored to death at Hanover, and his pretended gout was a bore and a wish to get rid of his subjects. The Verulams are come from Lord Maryborough's, and their language is also his. Again I say that things look just the same towards you as they ever did, and you have the game in your hands. If the Government are foolish enough to try and tide through another session, I perfectly agree with you that your line should be to form a junction with Canning, who will no doubt then feel as indignant as you will do.
The King has seen Lord Wellesley, and I have no doubt is trying to hatch up something through him, but it is quite impossible he can belong to the present Cabinet, and I therefore judge he is looking to a household employment; and there could be no objection to such an arrangement. But this is not the point; the point of the Government is the increase to their strength, and Lady Verulam told me (not knowing that I had heard the same thing from the Duke of W——) that Lord Liverpool, the Duke of Wellington, and Lord Londonderry were united and decided on this, and would not meet the Parliament without it. All this, you see, confirms our histories. If, after all, they surrender, one can only say what shabby fellows they are.
As to the Opposition coming in, I don't believe the King will attempt it. Lord Lansdowne is gone out of town; Lord Londonderry is still in favour. The King does not come here, but goes to Brighton. I shall go to town for a day, and whatever I pick up you shall hear; but I earnestly recommend you not to push the thing, or to move one step, or to show your offence, but suffer the whole thing to proceed from themselves, and see the result. You will then stand on much better ground, and have the strongest complaint against the conduct of the Duke of Wellington.
Believe me, ever yours,
W. H. F.
MR. W. H. FREMANTLE TO THE MARQUIS OF BUCKINGHAM.
Gorhambury, Nov. 21, 1821.My dear Lord,I am just arrived here, and only write three lines to say that the Verulams and all in the House speak of the change of the situations of Ministers as a thing decided, though not yet distinctly known. Canning certainly goes to the Admiralty, as is said, and Melville and Sidmouth move—but how or when is differently stated. You are to be offered Ireland, and I take it for granted, C. Wynn your secretary. They are outrageous with Grant for keeping them in ignorance with regard to the state of Ireland. He has been all along saying he wanted no troops, and now he is calling for them at all risks. Lord Sidmouth has positively refused to let a battalion of Guards go, saying he cannot spare another man. For some reason, which I suppose refers to Liverpool politics, Canning's appointment is not instantly brought forward. My wife saw the Duchess of Gloucester yesterday, who told her she had seen the King, who was never in better spirits or health; that he told her he had had an explanation with his Ministers, that all was now arranged, and he was more happy and comfortable than he had been for some time. Lord Cholmondeley has resigned, and Lord Conyngham is Lord Steward; Lord Rocksavage to be called up to the House of Lords.I have only written theon ditwhich I collect here. Lady Verulam saw her brother, Lord Liverpool, in town on Saturday last, who, she says, was in excellent spirits, and appeared to be much more at his ease and satisfied with the K—— than he had before been, I have no doubt but that the arrangements are settled, and I have none also that you will be sent to. I only hope you will not be fastidious. My principle is to take situation, and my advice would be, to accept Ireland if offered. Be assured it must lead to all you can desire.If you are not at the Admiralty, remember I would not wish to go there; nothing but acting with you would induce me;—otherwise, either the Treasury or India Board.W. H. F.
Gorhambury, Nov. 21, 1821.
My dear Lord,
I am just arrived here, and only write three lines to say that the Verulams and all in the House speak of the change of the situations of Ministers as a thing decided, though not yet distinctly known. Canning certainly goes to the Admiralty, as is said, and Melville and Sidmouth move—but how or when is differently stated. You are to be offered Ireland, and I take it for granted, C. Wynn your secretary. They are outrageous with Grant for keeping them in ignorance with regard to the state of Ireland. He has been all along saying he wanted no troops, and now he is calling for them at all risks. Lord Sidmouth has positively refused to let a battalion of Guards go, saying he cannot spare another man. For some reason, which I suppose refers to Liverpool politics, Canning's appointment is not instantly brought forward. My wife saw the Duchess of Gloucester yesterday, who told her she had seen the King, who was never in better spirits or health; that he told her he had had an explanation with his Ministers, that all was now arranged, and he was more happy and comfortable than he had been for some time. Lord Cholmondeley has resigned, and Lord Conyngham is Lord Steward; Lord Rocksavage to be called up to the House of Lords.
I have only written theon ditwhich I collect here. Lady Verulam saw her brother, Lord Liverpool, in town on Saturday last, who, she says, was in excellent spirits, and appeared to be much more at his ease and satisfied with the K—— than he had before been, I have no doubt but that the arrangements are settled, and I have none also that you will be sent to. I only hope you will not be fastidious. My principle is to take situation, and my advice would be, to accept Ireland if offered. Be assured it must lead to all you can desire.
If you are not at the Admiralty, remember I would not wish to go there; nothing but acting with you would induce me;—otherwise, either the Treasury or India Board.
W. H. F.
MR. CHARLES W. WYNN TO THE MARQUIS OF BUCKINGHAM.
I have postponed from day to day, my dear B——, thanking you for your letter, in the expectation of hearing from you again something more decisive. From this not being the case, I conclude that you have heard nothing more than common reports, and that the King and his Ministers have left town, again postponing any arrangement till January, just as at the opening of last session till Easter, at Easter till the recess, at the recess till the return from Ireland, and then till the return from Hanover. The feebleness and vacillation they continue to show is at least a consolation to those who have not been called upon to embark in the same boat with them. But how can it be possible for that boat, as at present manned, I will not say to weather any breeze, but to swim through the smoothest water? You have seen last year the indisposition of the House to support Vansittart even in the common business of his office, and it cannot be expected that this will be diminished after it is publicly known that they have failed in making any arrangement to strengthen themselves, owing to the want of the King's confidence and support. For myself, if they attempt to go on thus, I decidedly wish their fall, as I do not apprehend any calamity from a Whig administration equal to that of the House of Commons taking into its own hands the executive administration of the country. To this we are every day making rapid progress, and I fear that if we go much further, our return to the practice of the English Constitution will be impracticable, and convulsion ultimately the inevitable consequence. Till Ministers shall again guide, instead of following the House of Commons, I have no hope.The last report I hear is that the dispute about Canning is to be compromised by his being appointed to succeed Lord Hastings; and I feel little doubt that this would completely satisfy him, though it could only strengthen Ministers inasmuch as it delivers them from the dread of his turning against them. I should regret anything which takes him from the House of Commons, for though I have no respect for his character, yet he is of great use to check Burdett, Hobhouse, Lambton, &c. &c.If Ministers admit of Lord Conyngham's appointment to be Lord Steward, it seems as complete a victory to the King as if he were at once made Chamberlain, and will produce a lasting disgust in all the quiet and decent from one end of the country to the other, who have hitherto been the chief supports of Administration. Lord Cholmondeley's promise of the next blue ribbon is not worth much, since he is just as likely to drop as any one of your noble brotherhood.If one is to believe the newspapers, Lord Londonderry is to go into Norfolk on a shooting-party before Henry could reach town from Askrig. At all events, I have little hope that he will not put him off with the same sort of postponements as he has hitherto used. I quite agree with you that they at present consider us as hackney-coaches bound to remain on the stand whatever the weather may be, till they shall make up their minds to call us; and I hope that you will be disposed to reject any continuation of similar communication to that which they have already made to you, unless it is accompanied with a direct and intelligible proposal.As things are, I feel no temptation to quit the comforts of my own fireside. When we know the time and complexion of the meeting of Parliament, it may be advisable to discuss further what will then be to be done.Adieu.Ever most affectionately yours,C. W. W.
I have postponed from day to day, my dear B——, thanking you for your letter, in the expectation of hearing from you again something more decisive. From this not being the case, I conclude that you have heard nothing more than common reports, and that the King and his Ministers have left town, again postponing any arrangement till January, just as at the opening of last session till Easter, at Easter till the recess, at the recess till the return from Ireland, and then till the return from Hanover. The feebleness and vacillation they continue to show is at least a consolation to those who have not been called upon to embark in the same boat with them. But how can it be possible for that boat, as at present manned, I will not say to weather any breeze, but to swim through the smoothest water? You have seen last year the indisposition of the House to support Vansittart even in the common business of his office, and it cannot be expected that this will be diminished after it is publicly known that they have failed in making any arrangement to strengthen themselves, owing to the want of the King's confidence and support. For myself, if they attempt to go on thus, I decidedly wish their fall, as I do not apprehend any calamity from a Whig administration equal to that of the House of Commons taking into its own hands the executive administration of the country. To this we are every day making rapid progress, and I fear that if we go much further, our return to the practice of the English Constitution will be impracticable, and convulsion ultimately the inevitable consequence. Till Ministers shall again guide, instead of following the House of Commons, I have no hope.
The last report I hear is that the dispute about Canning is to be compromised by his being appointed to succeed Lord Hastings; and I feel little doubt that this would completely satisfy him, though it could only strengthen Ministers inasmuch as it delivers them from the dread of his turning against them. I should regret anything which takes him from the House of Commons, for though I have no respect for his character, yet he is of great use to check Burdett, Hobhouse, Lambton, &c. &c.
If Ministers admit of Lord Conyngham's appointment to be Lord Steward, it seems as complete a victory to the King as if he were at once made Chamberlain, and will produce a lasting disgust in all the quiet and decent from one end of the country to the other, who have hitherto been the chief supports of Administration. Lord Cholmondeley's promise of the next blue ribbon is not worth much, since he is just as likely to drop as any one of your noble brotherhood.
If one is to believe the newspapers, Lord Londonderry is to go into Norfolk on a shooting-party before Henry could reach town from Askrig. At all events, I have little hope that he will not put him off with the same sort of postponements as he has hitherto used. I quite agree with you that they at present consider us as hackney-coaches bound to remain on the stand whatever the weather may be, till they shall make up their minds to call us; and I hope that you will be disposed to reject any continuation of similar communication to that which they have already made to you, unless it is accompanied with a direct and intelligible proposal.
As things are, I feel no temptation to quit the comforts of my own fireside. When we know the time and complexion of the meeting of Parliament, it may be advisable to discuss further what will then be to be done.
Adieu.
Ever most affectionately yours,
C. W. W.
Several intimations have been given in Mr. Fremantle's letters, of a negotiation on the part of the Ministers for an increase of strength; the following letter brings this more tangibly before the reader, and shows something like earnestness in the intention.
THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON TO MR. W. H. FREMANTLE.
Teddesley, Nov. 21, 1821.My dear Fremantle,The period is now arrived at which Lord Liverpool thinks he can make his arrangements for strengthening his Government, and according to what I stated to Lord Buckingham by his desire last summer, he is very desirous of communicating with him. I don't know where Lord Buckingham is at present; and I think that you had better come to town if not inconvenient to you, and see Lord Liverpool, who wishes to speak to you.I shall be in town myself on Tuesday evening.Ever yours most sincerely,Wellington.
Teddesley, Nov. 21, 1821.
My dear Fremantle,
The period is now arrived at which Lord Liverpool thinks he can make his arrangements for strengthening his Government, and according to what I stated to Lord Buckingham by his desire last summer, he is very desirous of communicating with him. I don't know where Lord Buckingham is at present; and I think that you had better come to town if not inconvenient to you, and see Lord Liverpool, who wishes to speak to you.
I shall be in town myself on Tuesday evening.
Ever yours most sincerely,
Wellington.
The long pending arrangement of the junction of Lord Buckingham and his friends with Ministers, was now drawing to a close; a sense of its necessity induced Lord Liverpool to renew the negociation, and Mr. W. H. Fremantle was invited by the Premier to a discussion with him on the subject. The result of the interview is given by him in the following report, and the effect of the official arrangements proposed, will appear in the correspondence which it precedes.
MR. W. H. FREMANTLE'S REPORT OF CONVERSATION WITH LORD LIVERPOOL.
He begun by saying, that the situation of the Government at the end of the last session was such that he did not know how far its stability could be depended upon; that a variety of untoward circumstances had arisen which made their situation precarious, and under these impressions he did not feel himself authorized or justified in proposing a connexion with the Government to any person or party at that time. The case was now altered, for he had to say that there was no doubt or question as to the continuance of the Government, and as to the complete confidence and support of the King, and therefore he wished to make known to me, for the information of Lord Buckingham and his friends, what steps the Government were enabled to take with a view of forming a connexion with them.The great and material point to which the Government looked was strength in the House of Commons, and therefore whatever changes would take place in the Cabinet were to be grounded on this consideration alone. The vacancies that would take place in the Cabinet arose from the retirement of Lord Sidmouth, and by the opening of the Presidentship of the Board of Control. It was intended, in the event of Lord Hastings' return from India, that Mr. Canning should succeed him, but not belong to the Cabinet previous thereto. That Mr. Peel should hold a very prominent situation (which I took for granted meant Lord Sidmouth's office), and that the Board of Control or the Secretaryship of War, with a seat in the Cabinet, could be offered to Mr. Charles Wynn; that knowing Lord Buckingham's and Lord Grenville's anxious wishes for Mr. Henry Wynn, the appointment to Switzerland was now open to him, and a seat at one of the principal Boards for any friend whom Lord Buckingham might recommend. That it was right to advert to the situation of Ireland, and I must be aware of the confidential communication he had had with Mr. Plunket when he was last in England; that since that time the King had satisfied himself that measures might be pursued which would keep the Catholic question in a state in which neither of the contending parties would preponderate, and that in this spirit of conciliation he had communicated lately with Mr. Plunket, and had reason to think he was satisfied with the views of Government on this subject, and would be disposed to accede to an arrangement which was now in progress for making him Attorney-General of Ireland, retaining his seat in Parliament, and taking an active part in the House of Commons. That in his communications with the King, knowing what had been the object of the late Marquis of Buckingham and of the present, and also the conditional engagement which had been made by the late King of a Dukedom in case any Duke were created, the King had authorized him to tell Lord Buckingham, that although he had not meant to grant that dignity, and did not now mean to create any other person, he was willing to grant the dignity to Lord Buckingham on the present occasion. These were the principal points and engagements held out by Lord Liverpool. In the course of stating them he added a variety of observations, which chiefly rested on the difficulties of an arrangement, but always adverting to his wish to meet the objects of Lord Grenville and Lord Buckingham by bringing forward Mr. Charles Wynn.Without entering into the state of the country, or of the Government, or the difficulties of the House of Commons, I said I feared such an arrangement would not be satisfactory to Lord Buckingham; that I knew his object was office; that whatever might be his feelings with regard to a Dukedom, I was quite satisfied he would not connect himself with a Government unless he formed a part of it; that his habits were those of active employment, and by accepting a Dukedom he was placed on the shelf; and therefore, though I should feel it my duty to convey the offer, I thought it right to tell Lord Liverpool what I considered would be the result—namely, that it would not lead to a connexion with the Grenville party. That I thought Lord Buckingham's talents were such as would essentially serve a Government in times like the present, even if his rank, and station, and influence, were out of the question; but without entering into a discussion on these points, I was only expressing my own opinion, but it would be for Lord Liverpool to receive from Lord Buckingham his answer. To these observations, which were short, Lord Liverpool only dwelt on his high opinion of Lord Buckingham, and in the course of further discussion I said that the Admiralty or Ireland were situations suitable to the dignity and to the pretensions of Lord Buckingham. He observed that Lord Talbot had nearly served his time in Ireland; he had been there near four years, but at the present moment there were insurmountable objections to removing him; by which observation it strikes me that he meant to imply that Lord Buckingham could succeed him, but this was never said. After a few more observations immaterial, he asked me when I should communicate with Lord Buckingham; I said I should go to Avington to-morrow, and as he said he was going next week to Bath, he should be happy to receive a communication from Lord Buckingham any day the end of this week, and that if Lord Buckingham would honour him by an interview, much more could be done, and more explained, than by letter, and he should be happy to see him.
He begun by saying, that the situation of the Government at the end of the last session was such that he did not know how far its stability could be depended upon; that a variety of untoward circumstances had arisen which made their situation precarious, and under these impressions he did not feel himself authorized or justified in proposing a connexion with the Government to any person or party at that time. The case was now altered, for he had to say that there was no doubt or question as to the continuance of the Government, and as to the complete confidence and support of the King, and therefore he wished to make known to me, for the information of Lord Buckingham and his friends, what steps the Government were enabled to take with a view of forming a connexion with them.
The great and material point to which the Government looked was strength in the House of Commons, and therefore whatever changes would take place in the Cabinet were to be grounded on this consideration alone. The vacancies that would take place in the Cabinet arose from the retirement of Lord Sidmouth, and by the opening of the Presidentship of the Board of Control. It was intended, in the event of Lord Hastings' return from India, that Mr. Canning should succeed him, but not belong to the Cabinet previous thereto. That Mr. Peel should hold a very prominent situation (which I took for granted meant Lord Sidmouth's office), and that the Board of Control or the Secretaryship of War, with a seat in the Cabinet, could be offered to Mr. Charles Wynn; that knowing Lord Buckingham's and Lord Grenville's anxious wishes for Mr. Henry Wynn, the appointment to Switzerland was now open to him, and a seat at one of the principal Boards for any friend whom Lord Buckingham might recommend. That it was right to advert to the situation of Ireland, and I must be aware of the confidential communication he had had with Mr. Plunket when he was last in England; that since that time the King had satisfied himself that measures might be pursued which would keep the Catholic question in a state in which neither of the contending parties would preponderate, and that in this spirit of conciliation he had communicated lately with Mr. Plunket, and had reason to think he was satisfied with the views of Government on this subject, and would be disposed to accede to an arrangement which was now in progress for making him Attorney-General of Ireland, retaining his seat in Parliament, and taking an active part in the House of Commons. That in his communications with the King, knowing what had been the object of the late Marquis of Buckingham and of the present, and also the conditional engagement which had been made by the late King of a Dukedom in case any Duke were created, the King had authorized him to tell Lord Buckingham, that although he had not meant to grant that dignity, and did not now mean to create any other person, he was willing to grant the dignity to Lord Buckingham on the present occasion. These were the principal points and engagements held out by Lord Liverpool. In the course of stating them he added a variety of observations, which chiefly rested on the difficulties of an arrangement, but always adverting to his wish to meet the objects of Lord Grenville and Lord Buckingham by bringing forward Mr. Charles Wynn.
Without entering into the state of the country, or of the Government, or the difficulties of the House of Commons, I said I feared such an arrangement would not be satisfactory to Lord Buckingham; that I knew his object was office; that whatever might be his feelings with regard to a Dukedom, I was quite satisfied he would not connect himself with a Government unless he formed a part of it; that his habits were those of active employment, and by accepting a Dukedom he was placed on the shelf; and therefore, though I should feel it my duty to convey the offer, I thought it right to tell Lord Liverpool what I considered would be the result—namely, that it would not lead to a connexion with the Grenville party. That I thought Lord Buckingham's talents were such as would essentially serve a Government in times like the present, even if his rank, and station, and influence, were out of the question; but without entering into a discussion on these points, I was only expressing my own opinion, but it would be for Lord Liverpool to receive from Lord Buckingham his answer. To these observations, which were short, Lord Liverpool only dwelt on his high opinion of Lord Buckingham, and in the course of further discussion I said that the Admiralty or Ireland were situations suitable to the dignity and to the pretensions of Lord Buckingham. He observed that Lord Talbot had nearly served his time in Ireland; he had been there near four years, but at the present moment there were insurmountable objections to removing him; by which observation it strikes me that he meant to imply that Lord Buckingham could succeed him, but this was never said. After a few more observations immaterial, he asked me when I should communicate with Lord Buckingham; I said I should go to Avington to-morrow, and as he said he was going next week to Bath, he should be happy to receive a communication from Lord Buckingham any day the end of this week, and that if Lord Buckingham would honour him by an interview, much more could be done, and more explained, than by letter, and he should be happy to see him.
LORD GRENVILLE TO THE MARQUIS OF BUCKINGHAM.
Dropmore, Dec. 2, 1821.The two facts which your two letters have successively communicated have in the first instance highly delighted, and in the second proportionably dispirited me. Wellesley's appointment I verily believe to be the best that could be made. But what can I say of that of his secretary?—a man who may, for what I know, have virtues and talents of which it never fell in my way to hear a word, but who is known to the public here, and in Ireland, by nothing but the having made in the Catholic debates in the very last year, the most absurd speech and motion that could have come from the lips of Duigenan himself.If one could laugh on such a subject, and when such interests are at stake, what can exceed the ridicule of thus systematically coupling together a friend and an enemy to toleration, like fat and lean rabbits, or the man and his wife in a Dutch toy, or like fifty other absurdities made to be laughed at, but certainly never before introduced into politics as fixed and fundamental systems for the conduct of the most difficult and dangerous crisis of a country.What is to result from this disheartening folly? Is Wellesley a man likely to submit, like some of his predecessors, to be made a cypher in his Government? Is Plunket disposed to see the whole detail of daily business, and the whole character and temper of the Secretary's office fall back into the old channels; and that after the nomination of Grant, and his conduct since he went to Ireland, had both been among the principal inducements to him to look at a situation so far beneath his just pretensions? And what, I might ask, would be Wellesley's own situation between the Secretary at home from whom he receives orders, and the Secretary at Dublin to whom he is to give orders, if I did not believe that with all his failings he possesses a high and independent spirit, which will lead him to assert himself decisively in the very first moment of the counteraction, which is thus studiously and systematically provided to embarrass him in all his operations.But above all, what a picture does it present of the councils to which you are invited to unite yourself!I really had, after receiving your first letter, begun to accustom myself to look at the bright side of the question alone, and to indulge soothing visions of honour and happiness to you both in the new course which is opened to you. And I will endeavour, and for my own peace of mind Imustendeavour, still so to do.But the decision must rest, where it ought to rest, with yourself and with Charles; and I can have no other sentiment or feeling on the subject, but that which leads me to offer up the most earnest wishes and prayers that it may be such as shall be most honourable and happy to yourselves, and through you to the country.I have shown this to my brother, who desires me only to add on his part, that Wellesley's nomination had made the same impression on him, as offering a new and most important change in thefaceof the Government, andthat(as Lord Londonderry would say) in one of its largestfeatures; and that this feeling is with him, as with me, more thanneutralizedby a measure to which, forming, as it will do, a part of the new proposed arrangements, you and yours are directly made parties.
Dropmore, Dec. 2, 1821.
The two facts which your two letters have successively communicated have in the first instance highly delighted, and in the second proportionably dispirited me. Wellesley's appointment I verily believe to be the best that could be made. But what can I say of that of his secretary?—a man who may, for what I know, have virtues and talents of which it never fell in my way to hear a word, but who is known to the public here, and in Ireland, by nothing but the having made in the Catholic debates in the very last year, the most absurd speech and motion that could have come from the lips of Duigenan himself.
If one could laugh on such a subject, and when such interests are at stake, what can exceed the ridicule of thus systematically coupling together a friend and an enemy to toleration, like fat and lean rabbits, or the man and his wife in a Dutch toy, or like fifty other absurdities made to be laughed at, but certainly never before introduced into politics as fixed and fundamental systems for the conduct of the most difficult and dangerous crisis of a country.
What is to result from this disheartening folly? Is Wellesley a man likely to submit, like some of his predecessors, to be made a cypher in his Government? Is Plunket disposed to see the whole detail of daily business, and the whole character and temper of the Secretary's office fall back into the old channels; and that after the nomination of Grant, and his conduct since he went to Ireland, had both been among the principal inducements to him to look at a situation so far beneath his just pretensions? And what, I might ask, would be Wellesley's own situation between the Secretary at home from whom he receives orders, and the Secretary at Dublin to whom he is to give orders, if I did not believe that with all his failings he possesses a high and independent spirit, which will lead him to assert himself decisively in the very first moment of the counteraction, which is thus studiously and systematically provided to embarrass him in all his operations.
But above all, what a picture does it present of the councils to which you are invited to unite yourself!
I really had, after receiving your first letter, begun to accustom myself to look at the bright side of the question alone, and to indulge soothing visions of honour and happiness to you both in the new course which is opened to you. And I will endeavour, and for my own peace of mind Imustendeavour, still so to do.
But the decision must rest, where it ought to rest, with yourself and with Charles; and I can have no other sentiment or feeling on the subject, but that which leads me to offer up the most earnest wishes and prayers that it may be such as shall be most honourable and happy to yourselves, and through you to the country.
I have shown this to my brother, who desires me only to add on his part, that Wellesley's nomination had made the same impression on him, as offering a new and most important change in thefaceof the Government, andthat(as Lord Londonderry would say) in one of its largestfeatures; and that this feeling is with him, as with me, more thanneutralizedby a measure to which, forming, as it will do, a part of the new proposed arrangements, you and yours are directly made parties.
THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON TO MR. W. H. FREMANTLE.
London, Dec. 3, 1821.My dear Fremantle,Since I saw you this morning I have learned that Lord Sidmouth is to remain in the Cabinet by the King's particular desire. I have not seen Lord Liverpool, but I conclude that he omitted to mention this from forgetfulness. Indeed, I had myself forgotten that the King had in the discussions of last summer, desired it.I beg you, however, to recollect that ours is not, nor never has been, acontroversialCabinet upon any subject; and that a man more or less of any particular opinion will not have the slightest influence on the decision of any question.Believe me, ever yours most sincerely,Wellington.
London, Dec. 3, 1821.
My dear Fremantle,
Since I saw you this morning I have learned that Lord Sidmouth is to remain in the Cabinet by the King's particular desire. I have not seen Lord Liverpool, but I conclude that he omitted to mention this from forgetfulness. Indeed, I had myself forgotten that the King had in the discussions of last summer, desired it.
I beg you, however, to recollect that ours is not, nor never has been, acontroversialCabinet upon any subject; and that a man more or less of any particular opinion will not have the slightest influence on the decision of any question.
Believe me, ever yours most sincerely,
Wellington.
THE MARQUIS WELLESLEY TO THE MARQUIS OF BUCKINGHAM.
Richmond, Dec. 3, 1821.My dear Lord,I received your kind note just as I was going to dinner. I will not detain your servant longer than to return you my sincere thanks. I will write more fully in the course of the evening, and will take care that you shall receive my letter early to-morrow. In the meantime I beg leave to inform you that I wrote to Lord Grenville as soon as I was authorized to write to any person, and I wrote to your Lordship at the same period of time. In my letter to Lord Grenville I requested an interview previous to my departure, for the purpose of receiving his inestimable advice; at that moment I had no idea of any other object. I could have attended Lord Grenville to-morrow, but I have received the King's commands to wait on him at Brighton, and I must depart early. On my return I shall be happy to pay my duty at Dropmore or in London, according to Lord Grenville's convenience.I was very insufficiently informed of the circumstances mentioned by you, and was not aware even of their general tenor until yesterday.I need not state what my ardent wishes are. The Duke of Wellington did not know of the commands which I had received from Brighton when he spoke of the possibility of my visiting Dropmore to-morrow.Ever, my dear Lord, yours most faithfully,Wellesley.
Richmond, Dec. 3, 1821.
My dear Lord,
I received your kind note just as I was going to dinner. I will not detain your servant longer than to return you my sincere thanks. I will write more fully in the course of the evening, and will take care that you shall receive my letter early to-morrow. In the meantime I beg leave to inform you that I wrote to Lord Grenville as soon as I was authorized to write to any person, and I wrote to your Lordship at the same period of time. In my letter to Lord Grenville I requested an interview previous to my departure, for the purpose of receiving his inestimable advice; at that moment I had no idea of any other object. I could have attended Lord Grenville to-morrow, but I have received the King's commands to wait on him at Brighton, and I must depart early. On my return I shall be happy to pay my duty at Dropmore or in London, according to Lord Grenville's convenience.
I was very insufficiently informed of the circumstances mentioned by you, and was not aware even of their general tenor until yesterday.
I need not state what my ardent wishes are. The Duke of Wellington did not know of the commands which I had received from Brighton when he spoke of the possibility of my visiting Dropmore to-morrow.
Ever, my dear Lord, yours most faithfully,
Wellesley.
THE MARQUIS WELLESLEY TO THE MARQUIS OF BUCKINGHAM.
Richmond, Dec 3, 1821.My dear Lord,In my short note this evening I stated to your Lordship generally the restraints which precluded my earlier communication with you and Lord Grenville; my desire, expressed to him, of receiving the great benefit of his advice previously to my departure for Ireland; and my earnest and anxious hope that Lord Grenville, your Lordship, and your friends, might concur in acting with the Government which had called me to the administration of the affairs of Ireland.I was informed a few days ago (but in no distinct statement) that it was probable that your Lordship and Lord Grenville might give your countenance to the Government, and that some of your friends might accept office; but it was not until yesterday that I understood the arrangements for that desirable object to be in any advanced state, and from what I then collected, I had hoped that all difficulties had been removed.My desire to see Lord Grenville rested entirely on my sense of the advantage of receiving his opinions, which I was satisfied he would impart to me with all the freedom and confidence of long-established friendship, and of mutual esteem and affection; but I should not have presumed, without his express injunction, to suggest any opinion respecting the conduct of his friends or his own in the present crisis. With regard to the settlement of the Roman Catholic grievances, my general opinions are unalterable; but the course to be pursued by the Executive Government in Ireland in the existing state of the law, and in the present condition of that country, must be regulated by practical considerations, in which persons may cordially concur whose sentiments may greatly differ on the great and final question. My view of the present state of affairs in Ireland would lead me to think that an impartial, equitable, and mild administration of the law (of which the alteration cannot be effected or attempted by a Lord Lieutenant), is the only safe course which can now be pursued, and the only channel through which we can ever reach a happy and permanent settlement.With this view I entertain no apprehension of interruption in my government from the influence mentioned by your Lordship, as the subject of alarm in some most respectable minds. I really do not believe that any person now in high office, or likely to be in high office in either country, would attempt to contravene the liberal and benevolent spirit of the King's gracious and conciliatory admonitions to Ireland; and I trust that, by general consent, the system of government is abolished by which the laws respecting the Catholics were administered in a spirit much more severe than their letter. This is a step towards more substantial improvement, and every step in this salutary career must advance us still more near the complete attainment of general union and harmony. This is my plan, from which I cannot deviate, and in the execution of which I apprehend no interruption.I understand from the Government here, and I most ardently hope, that our highly respectable and admirable friend Mr. Plunket is likely to hold a high official station in Ireland, where I shall place the most firm confidence in him, and receive the constant benefit of his council and assistance. This will be a great comfort and strength to me in a situation of great and arduous exertion; where, however, the course to be observed cannot be doubtful, whatever doubt the uncertainty of all human affairs must cast over the prospect of success.If your Lordship had desired my opinion, I should certainly have declared, that as your junction with the Government cannot fail to be of great advantage to the country, so it could not be injurious to the Catholic cause, which can prosper only by the regular and steady progress of a prudent and temperate system. On this point, however, I repeat that I would not venture to obtrude my weak judgment. I am obliged to attend the King to-morrow, otherwise I should have endeavoured to see your Lordship and Lord Grenville; on my return I hope for that advantage.Believe me always, my dear Lord,With true esteem and regard,Yours most faithfully,Wellesley.My brother Arthur has mentioned Lieut.-Col. Fremantle to me with great regard. I shall be very happy, if it should be in my power, to promote his wishes; but, in the very extended state of my old engagements, I cannot make any decision before my arrival in Ireland.
Richmond, Dec 3, 1821.
My dear Lord,
In my short note this evening I stated to your Lordship generally the restraints which precluded my earlier communication with you and Lord Grenville; my desire, expressed to him, of receiving the great benefit of his advice previously to my departure for Ireland; and my earnest and anxious hope that Lord Grenville, your Lordship, and your friends, might concur in acting with the Government which had called me to the administration of the affairs of Ireland.
I was informed a few days ago (but in no distinct statement) that it was probable that your Lordship and Lord Grenville might give your countenance to the Government, and that some of your friends might accept office; but it was not until yesterday that I understood the arrangements for that desirable object to be in any advanced state, and from what I then collected, I had hoped that all difficulties had been removed.
My desire to see Lord Grenville rested entirely on my sense of the advantage of receiving his opinions, which I was satisfied he would impart to me with all the freedom and confidence of long-established friendship, and of mutual esteem and affection; but I should not have presumed, without his express injunction, to suggest any opinion respecting the conduct of his friends or his own in the present crisis. With regard to the settlement of the Roman Catholic grievances, my general opinions are unalterable; but the course to be pursued by the Executive Government in Ireland in the existing state of the law, and in the present condition of that country, must be regulated by practical considerations, in which persons may cordially concur whose sentiments may greatly differ on the great and final question. My view of the present state of affairs in Ireland would lead me to think that an impartial, equitable, and mild administration of the law (of which the alteration cannot be effected or attempted by a Lord Lieutenant), is the only safe course which can now be pursued, and the only channel through which we can ever reach a happy and permanent settlement.
With this view I entertain no apprehension of interruption in my government from the influence mentioned by your Lordship, as the subject of alarm in some most respectable minds. I really do not believe that any person now in high office, or likely to be in high office in either country, would attempt to contravene the liberal and benevolent spirit of the King's gracious and conciliatory admonitions to Ireland; and I trust that, by general consent, the system of government is abolished by which the laws respecting the Catholics were administered in a spirit much more severe than their letter. This is a step towards more substantial improvement, and every step in this salutary career must advance us still more near the complete attainment of general union and harmony. This is my plan, from which I cannot deviate, and in the execution of which I apprehend no interruption.
I understand from the Government here, and I most ardently hope, that our highly respectable and admirable friend Mr. Plunket is likely to hold a high official station in Ireland, where I shall place the most firm confidence in him, and receive the constant benefit of his council and assistance. This will be a great comfort and strength to me in a situation of great and arduous exertion; where, however, the course to be observed cannot be doubtful, whatever doubt the uncertainty of all human affairs must cast over the prospect of success.
If your Lordship had desired my opinion, I should certainly have declared, that as your junction with the Government cannot fail to be of great advantage to the country, so it could not be injurious to the Catholic cause, which can prosper only by the regular and steady progress of a prudent and temperate system. On this point, however, I repeat that I would not venture to obtrude my weak judgment. I am obliged to attend the King to-morrow, otherwise I should have endeavoured to see your Lordship and Lord Grenville; on my return I hope for that advantage.
Believe me always, my dear Lord,
With true esteem and regard,
Yours most faithfully,
Wellesley.
My brother Arthur has mentioned Lieut.-Col. Fremantle to me with great regard. I shall be very happy, if it should be in my power, to promote his wishes; but, in the very extended state of my old engagements, I cannot make any decision before my arrival in Ireland.
MR. W. C. PLUNKET TO THE MARQUIS OF BUCKINGHAM.
Dublin, Dec. 3, 1821.My Lord,The mails have arrived here after a continuance of eight or nine days of storm, and I have just received your Lordship's letter of the 30th. I hasten to acknowledge it, and to express the strong sense I entertain of your Lordship's kindness and confidence. When I was in town last March, I took the liberty of asking Lord Grenville's advice, with reference to an overture which had been made to me on the part of his Majesty's Ministers, and on which I had declined to act, until I should have the opportunity of learning his sentiments; finding that he had formed a decided (and I must say most unfortunate) resolution not to become a member of administration, but knowing, at the same time, how entirely his views and opinions on the state of public affairs coincided with those of the Government, I felt disposed to accede to the proposal which had been made, of resuming my former office of Attorney-General in Ireland. Your Lordship was not then in town, or I should certainly have availed myself of your confidence and friendly interest in my affairs, and have asked the benefit of your advice. Lord Grenville agreed with me that there wasno possible objection to the proposed arrangement; at the same time he suggested the propriety of holding myself free as to the time and mode of dealing with the Roman Catholic question.The business has hung over from that time to the present, and though the measure was understood, nothing effectual has been done towards its accomplishment till within this few days. On the subject of the Roman Catholics, or as to the policy to be pursued respecting the bringing forward this question, I never have given, or indeed formed, any definite opinion, and with respect to it I hold myself just in the same situation as if I were to remain utterly unconnected with Administration. It appears to me that great advantages may be derived to that cause from the introduction of its known and steady friends to some share in his Majesty's counsels, and I own I should grieve if any circumstance was to withhold your Lordship's services, and those of some of your near friends, at this critical period.That the Roman Catholic question cannot, for any great length of time, be kept back, appears to me evident; but it seems equally clear that there is great occasion for caution, and much room for accommodation, as to the time of bringing it forward; nothing could be more injurious than the risking the loss of the vantage ground which we have taken possession of during the last session; and one cannot but apprehend that such might be the consequence of bringing the measure forward, without some better prospect of good sense and good temper on the part of the Roman Catholic clergy, than they displayed on the late occasion. Of some improvement in that quarter I am led to entertain hopes, as well as on the part of those of the laity who were least manageable. All these are arguments for delay; at the same time, this should be entirely kept open for discretion, and above all, should not be liable to be considered as the result of contract or stipulation, especially with any portion of the Government, which would unavoidably tend to throw the Roman Catholic body into dangerous hands. Under these circumstances, and reserving this perfect freedom, I am quite disposed to attend in Parliament, and render whatever services I can to the general measures of Administration.I write to your Lordship, as you desire it, fully, my opinions on a subject, when I should be much more disposed to ask yours, were I on the spot or the time admitted it. Will you have the goodness to communicate what I write to Mr. Wynn, and to him only. I trust I shall soon learn that the public cause has been strengthened by your Lordship's accession, and by his.We are in a state of extreme agitation and disturbance here; the accounts are much exaggerated, however,as I believe, for I have not had the honour of the slightest communication from any person connected with the Irish Government. The state of this country, whilst it furnishes the fullest proof of the necessity of disposing of the question to which I have adverted, does not, perhaps, afford strong encouragement for bringing it forward just at present; but on this and all other matters connected with it, I shall look with great anxiety to learn the opinion of Lord Grenville.I beg your Lordship to believe how sensible I am of the honour you do me by consulting me on the present occasion, and that I am with great truth and regard always my Lord,Your Lordship's much obligedAnd very faithful humble servant,W. C. Plunket.
Dublin, Dec. 3, 1821.
My Lord,
The mails have arrived here after a continuance of eight or nine days of storm, and I have just received your Lordship's letter of the 30th. I hasten to acknowledge it, and to express the strong sense I entertain of your Lordship's kindness and confidence. When I was in town last March, I took the liberty of asking Lord Grenville's advice, with reference to an overture which had been made to me on the part of his Majesty's Ministers, and on which I had declined to act, until I should have the opportunity of learning his sentiments; finding that he had formed a decided (and I must say most unfortunate) resolution not to become a member of administration, but knowing, at the same time, how entirely his views and opinions on the state of public affairs coincided with those of the Government, I felt disposed to accede to the proposal which had been made, of resuming my former office of Attorney-General in Ireland. Your Lordship was not then in town, or I should certainly have availed myself of your confidence and friendly interest in my affairs, and have asked the benefit of your advice. Lord Grenville agreed with me that there wasno possible objection to the proposed arrangement; at the same time he suggested the propriety of holding myself free as to the time and mode of dealing with the Roman Catholic question.
The business has hung over from that time to the present, and though the measure was understood, nothing effectual has been done towards its accomplishment till within this few days. On the subject of the Roman Catholics, or as to the policy to be pursued respecting the bringing forward this question, I never have given, or indeed formed, any definite opinion, and with respect to it I hold myself just in the same situation as if I were to remain utterly unconnected with Administration. It appears to me that great advantages may be derived to that cause from the introduction of its known and steady friends to some share in his Majesty's counsels, and I own I should grieve if any circumstance was to withhold your Lordship's services, and those of some of your near friends, at this critical period.
That the Roman Catholic question cannot, for any great length of time, be kept back, appears to me evident; but it seems equally clear that there is great occasion for caution, and much room for accommodation, as to the time of bringing it forward; nothing could be more injurious than the risking the loss of the vantage ground which we have taken possession of during the last session; and one cannot but apprehend that such might be the consequence of bringing the measure forward, without some better prospect of good sense and good temper on the part of the Roman Catholic clergy, than they displayed on the late occasion. Of some improvement in that quarter I am led to entertain hopes, as well as on the part of those of the laity who were least manageable. All these are arguments for delay; at the same time, this should be entirely kept open for discretion, and above all, should not be liable to be considered as the result of contract or stipulation, especially with any portion of the Government, which would unavoidably tend to throw the Roman Catholic body into dangerous hands. Under these circumstances, and reserving this perfect freedom, I am quite disposed to attend in Parliament, and render whatever services I can to the general measures of Administration.
I write to your Lordship, as you desire it, fully, my opinions on a subject, when I should be much more disposed to ask yours, were I on the spot or the time admitted it. Will you have the goodness to communicate what I write to Mr. Wynn, and to him only. I trust I shall soon learn that the public cause has been strengthened by your Lordship's accession, and by his.
We are in a state of extreme agitation and disturbance here; the accounts are much exaggerated, however,as I believe, for I have not had the honour of the slightest communication from any person connected with the Irish Government. The state of this country, whilst it furnishes the fullest proof of the necessity of disposing of the question to which I have adverted, does not, perhaps, afford strong encouragement for bringing it forward just at present; but on this and all other matters connected with it, I shall look with great anxiety to learn the opinion of Lord Grenville.
I beg your Lordship to believe how sensible I am of the honour you do me by consulting me on the present occasion, and that I am with great truth and regard always my Lord,
Your Lordship's much obliged
And very faithful humble servant,
W. C. Plunket.
LORD GRENVILLE TO THE MARQUIS OF BUCKINGHAM.
Dropmore, Dec. 4, 1821.We have had a full talk with Charles, and have laid before him the good and the bad, as far as I can judge of it. His decision and yours (not ours) must ultimately regulate your conduct.I have strongly recommended to him to see Lord Liverpool and Lord Londonderry, and also Lord Wellesley, who has written to me in very kind terms to announce his appointment, and to whom I write to offer to go to Richmond to see him, if it is inconvenient to him to come here. I hope you and Charles will endeavour to learn from him the plain English of this metaphor about balances, and what it is that he understands himself to be sent to Ireland to do.It is a bad feature of this business, that every day presents some new difficulty not previously announced to you.TheCouriernow informs us,—1, That Lord Sidmouth is to continue of the Cabinet; and 2, That Canning isnotto go to India; or, in other words, that Charles is to go alone into the Cabinet at the very moment that is studiously chosen for making itmoreorange in its complexionthan it was before; and secondly, that what is calledstrengtheningGovernment in the House of Commons consists in driving Canning into opposition, who was before the best speaker on the Government side, and having Peel in Government, who was before a speaker also on their side.I wish I could sayIapproved all these things, because I seeyouwish it; but I must speak the truth or hold my tongue, and my affection to you both makes me very reluctant to do the latter, though for your sake I have certainly expressed myself much less strongly to Charles on some of these points than I should otherwise have done.As for saying of each of these things separately, that there are personal objections to A—— and B—— and C——, and that they are each and all of them individuals of too little consequence for you to hang your decisions upon, of what does a discussion of this nature consist, except first, of measures, the explanation of the most important of which is now wrapped up in metaphorical ambiguity; and secondly, of the men who are to execute them; and if these really are severally as insignificant as you deem them, what better argument can be found against putting them or keeping them in the first ranks of a new arrangement, the professed object of which is to supply strength which was confessed to be wanting?But I have done, and have only as before most earnestly to wish that you may do what is best, whether I am able ultimately to think it so or not.
Dropmore, Dec. 4, 1821.
We have had a full talk with Charles, and have laid before him the good and the bad, as far as I can judge of it. His decision and yours (not ours) must ultimately regulate your conduct.
I have strongly recommended to him to see Lord Liverpool and Lord Londonderry, and also Lord Wellesley, who has written to me in very kind terms to announce his appointment, and to whom I write to offer to go to Richmond to see him, if it is inconvenient to him to come here. I hope you and Charles will endeavour to learn from him the plain English of this metaphor about balances, and what it is that he understands himself to be sent to Ireland to do.
It is a bad feature of this business, that every day presents some new difficulty not previously announced to you.
TheCouriernow informs us,—1, That Lord Sidmouth is to continue of the Cabinet; and 2, That Canning isnotto go to India; or, in other words, that Charles is to go alone into the Cabinet at the very moment that is studiously chosen for making itmoreorange in its complexionthan it was before; and secondly, that what is calledstrengtheningGovernment in the House of Commons consists in driving Canning into opposition, who was before the best speaker on the Government side, and having Peel in Government, who was before a speaker also on their side.
I wish I could sayIapproved all these things, because I seeyouwish it; but I must speak the truth or hold my tongue, and my affection to you both makes me very reluctant to do the latter, though for your sake I have certainly expressed myself much less strongly to Charles on some of these points than I should otherwise have done.
As for saying of each of these things separately, that there are personal objections to A—— and B—— and C——, and that they are each and all of them individuals of too little consequence for you to hang your decisions upon, of what does a discussion of this nature consist, except first, of measures, the explanation of the most important of which is now wrapped up in metaphorical ambiguity; and secondly, of the men who are to execute them; and if these really are severally as insignificant as you deem them, what better argument can be found against putting them or keeping them in the first ranks of a new arrangement, the professed object of which is to supply strength which was confessed to be wanting?
But I have done, and have only as before most earnestly to wish that you may do what is best, whether I am able ultimately to think it so or not.
LORD GRENVILLE TO THE MARQUIS OF BUCKINGHAM.
Dropmore, Dec. 5, 1821.I return you Wellesley's letter, with which I am much pleased. I wish I could say the same of the other parts of the business; but I am old-fashioned enough to be thoroughly scandalized at the want of the common forms of civility and respect so singularly shown in Lord L——'s sending up for Charles from Wales to receive a proposal of coming into the Cabinet, and in the interim taking himself off to Bath, and leaving behind him not even a letter, but amessagethat he is not to be back till near the meeting of Parliament.Of the substance of the matters now depending, I have nothing more to add; but do not take it ill if an old man tells you plainly that if you do not on such an occasion so express and conduct yourself as to ensure the attention and respect which is due to you, it will be in vain to attempt to claim it afterwards, and that if you abandon it, you give up with it the hope of being really useful.I have known many such discussions, some ending well, others ill. But I never yet witnessed one in which such arrangements were (as in this case) presentedcrudely, to be accepted or refused, without any previous discussion as to the mode of shaping them, or any facility offered, or even intimated, for softening down such difficulties as such proposals are always more or less attended with.I must say there appears to be, with respect to both of you, a total misunderstanding of your real rank and station in the country, and in its public estimation.Do not think that I wish your acceptance or refusal to be influenced by feelings of temper or personal offence. Far from it. The question involves much higher considerations, both public and private; but what I do most earnestly wish is that you should maintain your own dignity against aggressions which are never neglected without leading to future inconvenience, but least of all in such cases as these.
Dropmore, Dec. 5, 1821.
I return you Wellesley's letter, with which I am much pleased. I wish I could say the same of the other parts of the business; but I am old-fashioned enough to be thoroughly scandalized at the want of the common forms of civility and respect so singularly shown in Lord L——'s sending up for Charles from Wales to receive a proposal of coming into the Cabinet, and in the interim taking himself off to Bath, and leaving behind him not even a letter, but amessagethat he is not to be back till near the meeting of Parliament.
Of the substance of the matters now depending, I have nothing more to add; but do not take it ill if an old man tells you plainly that if you do not on such an occasion so express and conduct yourself as to ensure the attention and respect which is due to you, it will be in vain to attempt to claim it afterwards, and that if you abandon it, you give up with it the hope of being really useful.
I have known many such discussions, some ending well, others ill. But I never yet witnessed one in which such arrangements were (as in this case) presentedcrudely, to be accepted or refused, without any previous discussion as to the mode of shaping them, or any facility offered, or even intimated, for softening down such difficulties as such proposals are always more or less attended with.
I must say there appears to be, with respect to both of you, a total misunderstanding of your real rank and station in the country, and in its public estimation.
Do not think that I wish your acceptance or refusal to be influenced by feelings of temper or personal offence. Far from it. The question involves much higher considerations, both public and private; but what I do most earnestly wish is that you should maintain your own dignity against aggressions which are never neglected without leading to future inconvenience, but least of all in such cases as these.
The negotiation, like various others that had preceded it, had obstacles to surmount. One of the most active members of the party invited to strengthen the Government insisted upon an understanding on certain great political questions, on which a perfect Ministerial understanding had more than once before been extremely difficult to establish. The letters sent and received will speak for themselves.
MR. CHARLES W. WYNN TO THE MARQUIS OF BUCKINGHAM.
Whitehall, Dec. 13, 1821.My dear B——,The post has brought me no letter from Lord Liverpool. Perhaps the reservation in writing of my right to originate any measure which may appear to me desirable for the amelioration of the state of Ireland, either in Parliament or in Council, and of declaring that as the hope of contributing to that object is my principal inducement to accept office, so I should not hesitate at any time to relinquish it, if that would more effectually assist the object; and also of stating that Goulburn's appointment could not have had my concurrence—which are the three points insisted on in my letter—may, though agreed to by Lord Londonderry most readily, be of more difficult digestion to the Earl, particularly if, as begins to be reported, there is at the same time some hitch on the part of Peel, and that the Earl may find himself somewhat embarrassed between conflicting reservations. Still, I do not myself think that it is possible for him now to go back, as he is too deeply committed. Henry in to be in town to-night, which I am glad of, for, as Lord Londonderry goes a-shooting into Norfolk on Saturday, to-morrow will be his only opportunity of seeing him. I wish much, if Liverpool's answer is affirmative, to press forward the appointment as much as I can, in order that I may have the more time to work quietly at learning the business of the Board before I am called up to town to attend the Councils before the meeting of Parliament.Upon sending to the Foreign Office, I find that Lord Londonderry is not expected there till to-morrow. Whatever Liverpool's answer is, it will be desirable that I should see Londonderry; and if it is in the affirmative, I should also wish to see Courtenay to learn the state of the office.One o'clock,p.m.Liverpool's answer has just arrived by a messenger, accepting all my scruples and reservations most amply. I enclose to you copies of both letters. I must see Henry to-night, and Lord Londonderry to-morrow, but will come down to you afterwards—if I can, in the evening; but I think that hardly can be done, and therefore I will say next morning, by the earliest coach, if you will send some conveyance to meet me. I think that there can be no reason for your delaying to send your letter to the King. I am inclined to think that both for the general interests of the Government and my own convenience, it would be far better that it should be at once distinctly understood that Plunket's appointment should take place before the meeting of Parliament, which you will find is eight weeks hence, so that his writ may be moved the first day, and his assistance secured at the earliest possible moment in Parliament; and that the other arrangements should not wait for his.Liverpool's letter is, I think, a weak one, particularly on the subject of the appointment of Goulburn. I will write a few lines of acknowledgment to him, informing him that I have transmitted his letter to you, and expressing satisfaction in his explanation. If you like to write a letter of acceptance before I come down, I think there can be no objection; but probably you will think that we had better talk over the other arrangements before you write to him upon them. I wish I could come down to-morrow; but I really feel anxiety to see both Londonderry and Courtenay before I leave town, as I think it probable they may both be absent next week.Ever affectionately yours,C. W. W.I have written a line to inform Wellesley of our acceptance, in the event of no difficulty arising on your part, and desiring to be allowed to see him, in order to communicate to him my letter to Liverpool.
Whitehall, Dec. 13, 1821.
My dear B——,
The post has brought me no letter from Lord Liverpool. Perhaps the reservation in writing of my right to originate any measure which may appear to me desirable for the amelioration of the state of Ireland, either in Parliament or in Council, and of declaring that as the hope of contributing to that object is my principal inducement to accept office, so I should not hesitate at any time to relinquish it, if that would more effectually assist the object; and also of stating that Goulburn's appointment could not have had my concurrence—which are the three points insisted on in my letter—may, though agreed to by Lord Londonderry most readily, be of more difficult digestion to the Earl, particularly if, as begins to be reported, there is at the same time some hitch on the part of Peel, and that the Earl may find himself somewhat embarrassed between conflicting reservations. Still, I do not myself think that it is possible for him now to go back, as he is too deeply committed. Henry in to be in town to-night, which I am glad of, for, as Lord Londonderry goes a-shooting into Norfolk on Saturday, to-morrow will be his only opportunity of seeing him. I wish much, if Liverpool's answer is affirmative, to press forward the appointment as much as I can, in order that I may have the more time to work quietly at learning the business of the Board before I am called up to town to attend the Councils before the meeting of Parliament.
Upon sending to the Foreign Office, I find that Lord Londonderry is not expected there till to-morrow. Whatever Liverpool's answer is, it will be desirable that I should see Londonderry; and if it is in the affirmative, I should also wish to see Courtenay to learn the state of the office.
One o'clock,p.m.
Liverpool's answer has just arrived by a messenger, accepting all my scruples and reservations most amply. I enclose to you copies of both letters. I must see Henry to-night, and Lord Londonderry to-morrow, but will come down to you afterwards—if I can, in the evening; but I think that hardly can be done, and therefore I will say next morning, by the earliest coach, if you will send some conveyance to meet me. I think that there can be no reason for your delaying to send your letter to the King. I am inclined to think that both for the general interests of the Government and my own convenience, it would be far better that it should be at once distinctly understood that Plunket's appointment should take place before the meeting of Parliament, which you will find is eight weeks hence, so that his writ may be moved the first day, and his assistance secured at the earliest possible moment in Parliament; and that the other arrangements should not wait for his.
Liverpool's letter is, I think, a weak one, particularly on the subject of the appointment of Goulburn. I will write a few lines of acknowledgment to him, informing him that I have transmitted his letter to you, and expressing satisfaction in his explanation. If you like to write a letter of acceptance before I come down, I think there can be no objection; but probably you will think that we had better talk over the other arrangements before you write to him upon them. I wish I could come down to-morrow; but I really feel anxiety to see both Londonderry and Courtenay before I leave town, as I think it probable they may both be absent next week.
Ever affectionately yours,
C. W. W.
I have written a line to inform Wellesley of our acceptance, in the event of no difficulty arising on your part, and desiring to be allowed to see him, in order to communicate to him my letter to Liverpool.
MR. CHARLES W. WYNN TO THE EARL OF LIVERPOOL.
Dropmore, Dec. 11, 1821.My dear Lord,Although I understood from Lord Londonderry that he had fully detailed to your Lordship the conversations which have passed between us, and stated the difficulties which pressed upon my mind respecting the flattering proposal conveyed to me through Lord Buckingham, I feel it due to your Lordship, both as the head of his Majesty's Government and also one of those members of it from whom I differ on the Catholic question, that before any final determination be taken I should explain without reserve the feelings and opinions by which my conduct must be actuated in the event of my acceding to the proposed arrangement.Regretting, as I do, the difference of sentiment to which I have already adverted, I must premise distinctly, and in terms which cannot be misunderstood, that it would be impossible for me to form a part of any Government without reserving to myself, in the most ample manner, the full liberty not only of supporting and advocating, but of originating, either in Parliament or in Council, any proposition which may appear to me desirable to promote the amelioration of the general state of Ireland; and it is scarcely necessary for me to add, that in my judgment concession to the Catholics is a primary step towards the accomplishment of this inestimable object. It would be moreover essential that I should not only posses, but also, at my own discretion, avow the perfect liberty of speaking and acting, which I retain on this subject; and it is probable that I might feel myself called upon to declare publicly that as the hope of contributing to the success of this measure had been my principal inducement to accept of office, so I should not hesitate one moment to relinquish it from the time of my being convinced that this purpose might be more effectually assisted by my resignation. The circumstance which mainly encouraged me to act upon this hope is the intended appointment of Lord Wellesley and Mr. Plunket. This appears to hold out to Ireland in general the fairest prospect of a firm, impartial, and conciliatory Administration, while their known sentiments with regard to the Catholics in particular will, I trust, excite in that great body of his Majesty's subjects, a confidence from which the most beneficial results may be expected. These nominations are, however, accompanied by that of another gentleman as Chief Secretary, whose opinions are known to be directly at variance with those of Lord Wellesley and Mr. Plunket on this most momentous subject. To Mr. Goulburn's merits and general character every man must do justice who has observed his conduct in the department which he has hitherto filled, but I am so deeply impressed with the inconvenience and irritation which may arise from the apprehension in the public mind of counteraction and opposition between the Lord Lieutenant and his Secretary at a period of so much disturbance as the present, that if this should be made the subject of Parliamentary discussion, I may, besides referring to my not having participated in his Majesty's councils when the appointment took place, find it necessary to declare that it is one in which I could not have concurred. Lord Londonderry has already, I have no doubt, fully stated to your Lordship the various discussions which have taken place on public measures in my conversations with him; but the points I have adverted to in this letter are of such paramount importance that I am sure you will agree with me in thinking them fit to be the subject of a direct and specific communication to your Lordship. Upon these points, therefore, as upon that of the confident expectation which I collected from Lord Londonderry of Lord Wellesley's and Mr. Plunket's appointments being both completed before the meeting of Parliament, I shall hope to hear from your Lordship as soon as is consistent with your convenience.I have the honour to be my dear Lord,Your Lordship's most faithful and obedient servant,C. W. Williams Wynn.
Dropmore, Dec. 11, 1821.
My dear Lord,
Although I understood from Lord Londonderry that he had fully detailed to your Lordship the conversations which have passed between us, and stated the difficulties which pressed upon my mind respecting the flattering proposal conveyed to me through Lord Buckingham, I feel it due to your Lordship, both as the head of his Majesty's Government and also one of those members of it from whom I differ on the Catholic question, that before any final determination be taken I should explain without reserve the feelings and opinions by which my conduct must be actuated in the event of my acceding to the proposed arrangement.
Regretting, as I do, the difference of sentiment to which I have already adverted, I must premise distinctly, and in terms which cannot be misunderstood, that it would be impossible for me to form a part of any Government without reserving to myself, in the most ample manner, the full liberty not only of supporting and advocating, but of originating, either in Parliament or in Council, any proposition which may appear to me desirable to promote the amelioration of the general state of Ireland; and it is scarcely necessary for me to add, that in my judgment concession to the Catholics is a primary step towards the accomplishment of this inestimable object. It would be moreover essential that I should not only posses, but also, at my own discretion, avow the perfect liberty of speaking and acting, which I retain on this subject; and it is probable that I might feel myself called upon to declare publicly that as the hope of contributing to the success of this measure had been my principal inducement to accept of office, so I should not hesitate one moment to relinquish it from the time of my being convinced that this purpose might be more effectually assisted by my resignation. The circumstance which mainly encouraged me to act upon this hope is the intended appointment of Lord Wellesley and Mr. Plunket. This appears to hold out to Ireland in general the fairest prospect of a firm, impartial, and conciliatory Administration, while their known sentiments with regard to the Catholics in particular will, I trust, excite in that great body of his Majesty's subjects, a confidence from which the most beneficial results may be expected. These nominations are, however, accompanied by that of another gentleman as Chief Secretary, whose opinions are known to be directly at variance with those of Lord Wellesley and Mr. Plunket on this most momentous subject. To Mr. Goulburn's merits and general character every man must do justice who has observed his conduct in the department which he has hitherto filled, but I am so deeply impressed with the inconvenience and irritation which may arise from the apprehension in the public mind of counteraction and opposition between the Lord Lieutenant and his Secretary at a period of so much disturbance as the present, that if this should be made the subject of Parliamentary discussion, I may, besides referring to my not having participated in his Majesty's councils when the appointment took place, find it necessary to declare that it is one in which I could not have concurred. Lord Londonderry has already, I have no doubt, fully stated to your Lordship the various discussions which have taken place on public measures in my conversations with him; but the points I have adverted to in this letter are of such paramount importance that I am sure you will agree with me in thinking them fit to be the subject of a direct and specific communication to your Lordship. Upon these points, therefore, as upon that of the confident expectation which I collected from Lord Londonderry of Lord Wellesley's and Mr. Plunket's appointments being both completed before the meeting of Parliament, I shall hope to hear from your Lordship as soon as is consistent with your convenience.
I have the honour to be my dear Lord,
Your Lordship's most faithful and obedient servant,
C. W. Williams Wynn.
THE EARL OF LIVERPOOL TO MR. CHARLES W. WYNN.