Replies.

"If at least I were not prevented by some abler hand, particular by the author of that letter which first gave rise to this debate; and who, it was expected, would have appeared once more upon it, and freed what he had advanced from all exceptions."

W. Fraser.

[According to the Bodleian Catalogue, it was written by Sir Bartholomew Shower; but we have seen it attributed to William Binkes, the Prolocutor to the Convocation of 1705.]

Nicholas Thane.—Dr. Browne Willis, in hisHistory of the Town of Buckingham, published London, 1755, says (p. 49.):

"About the year 1545, as we are told in thePeerage of England, in the account of the Earl of Pomfret's family, his ancestor Richard Fermour of Easton Neston in Northamptonshire, Esq., had his estate seized on and taken away from him upon his having incurred apræmunire, by relieving one Nicholas Thane, an obnoxious Popish priest, who had been committed a close prisoner to the gaol in the town of Buckingham."

Can any of your readers inform me what crime or offence this "obnoxious priest" had been guilty of, as to be committed a "close prisoner;" and thatRichard Fermour, Esq., who had relieved him during his incarceration, should, for this apparently simple act of charity, have incurred apræmunire, for which he was subjected to so heavy a fine as the forfeiture of his estate? I should be glad of any further particulars respecting him, or to be referred to any work in which an account of him is recorded; and also to be informed by whom thePeerage of England, quoted by Dr. Willis, was compiled, when published, and whether it contains a more copious account of this reprehensible ecclesiastic.

Arthur R. Carter.

Camden Town.

[Richard Fermor was a merchant of the staple at Calais, and having acquired a considerable fortune, located himself at Easton Neston, co. Northampton. Being a zealous Romanist he refused to conform to the Reformed faith, and thus rendered himself obnoxious to the court; and being accused of administering relief to Nicholas Thane, formerly his confessor, who was then a prisoner in Buckingham Castle for denying the supremacy of the king, he was committed to the Marshalsea in July, 1540, and was afterwards arraigned in Westminster Hall, though nothing could be proved against him, except that he had sent 8d.and a couple of shirts to the imprisoned priest. He was adjudged to have incurred apræmunire, whereby all his lands and goods became forfeited, and the rapacious monarch enforced the sentence with the most unrelenting severity. See Baker'sHist. of Northamptonshire, vol. ii. p. 142.; Collins'sPeerage, edit. Brydges, vol. iv. p. 199.; and Lipscomb'sBuckinghamshire, vol. ii. p. 570.]

Churchwardens, Qualification of.—Can any of your correspondents give the title and price of any work which will define the qualifications requisite for filling the office of churchwarden? The case on which the question has arisen is that of a country parish divided into two townships, each township naming a warden. One of these is a dissenter, and seldom or never attends church; the other is said not to be a householder. Both of these are, by many of the parishioners, considered ineligible, owing to these circumstances. Should any one send the required information, you would oblige by allowing it to appear in the next Number of "N. & Q.," where it would be sure to be seen, and thankfully acknowledged by

B. B. F. F. T. T.

[Our correspondent will find the required information in Prideaux'sChurchwarden's Guide, 5th edit. 1850, price 6s., who has devoted sect. ii. "to the persons liable to be chosen to the office of churchwarden, and the persons disqualified and exempt from serving that office." (Pp. 4-17.) Consult also Cripps'sPractical Treatise on the Law relating to the Church and the Clergy, 8vo. 1850, pp. 176-201., price 26s.]

Sir John Powell.—In Vol. vii., p. 262., of "N. & Q." is an inquiry respecting Sir John Powell, and an answer given, in which there must surely be some mistake, or there must have been two Sir John Powells.

I beg to give the following extract from Britton'sHistory and Antiquities of the Abbey Church of Gloucester:

"A full-length marble statue, in judicial robes, erected by John Snell, Esq., to the memory of his uncle, Judge Powell, who in 1685 represented this city, his native place, in parliament. He was successively a Justice of Common Pleas and the King's Bench, and was one of the Judges who tried the seven Bishops, and joined in the declaration against the King's dispensing power. For this, James II. deprived him of his office, July 2, 1688; but William III. created him, first a Baron of the Exchequer, then a Judge in the Common Pleas, and on June 18, 1702, advanced him to the King's Bench, where he sat till his death, June 14, 1713."

I will add, that on the floor near the above monument are inscribed the names, &c., of various members of his family.

Sir John Powell is traditionally said to have lived at an old house called Wightfield in this county, which certainly belonged, at one time, to the above John Snell, who had married the judge's niece, and from whose descendants it was purchased by the grandfather of the present possessor.

Allow me to ask, by-the-bye, if the place, as spelt in your paper, should not be Langharne, or more correctly still, Llangharne?

F. S.

Gloucestershire.

[There were not only two, but three judges of the name of Powell, who were cotemporaries, viz.—1. Sir John Powell, mentioned in "N. & Q." (Vol. vii., p. 262.), whose burial-place should have been printed Llangharne, as our correspondent suggests. He was made a Judge of the Common Pleas on April 26, 1686, and a Judge of the King's Bench on April 16, 1687. He was removed on June 29, 1688, on consequence of the resolution he displayed on the trial of the seven bishops; but was restored to the Bench, as a Judge of the Common Pleas, in May, 1689, and continued to sit till his death in 1696.2. Sir Thomas Powell became a Baron of the Exchequer on April 22, 1687, and was transferred into the King's Bench in June, 1688, to take the seat there left vacant by the removal of the above Sir John Powell. He himself was removed in May, 1689.3. Sir John Powell, or, as he was then called, John Powell, junior, was made a Baron of the Exchequer on November 10, 1691, removed into the Common Pleas on October 29, 1695, and into the King's Bench in June, 1702, where he sat till his death in 1713. He it was who was buried at Gloucester.Britton has evidently, as Chalmers and Noble had done before him, commingled and confused the histories of the two Sir Johns.]

[There were not only two, but three judges of the name of Powell, who were cotemporaries, viz.—

1. Sir John Powell, mentioned in "N. & Q." (Vol. vii., p. 262.), whose burial-place should have been printed Llangharne, as our correspondent suggests. He was made a Judge of the Common Pleas on April 26, 1686, and a Judge of the King's Bench on April 16, 1687. He was removed on June 29, 1688, on consequence of the resolution he displayed on the trial of the seven bishops; but was restored to the Bench, as a Judge of the Common Pleas, in May, 1689, and continued to sit till his death in 1696.

2. Sir Thomas Powell became a Baron of the Exchequer on April 22, 1687, and was transferred into the King's Bench in June, 1688, to take the seat there left vacant by the removal of the above Sir John Powell. He himself was removed in May, 1689.

3. Sir John Powell, or, as he was then called, John Powell, junior, was made a Baron of the Exchequer on November 10, 1691, removed into the Common Pleas on October 29, 1695, and into the King's Bench in June, 1702, where he sat till his death in 1713. He it was who was buried at Gloucester.

Britton has evidently, as Chalmers and Noble had done before him, commingled and confused the histories of the two Sir Johns.]

S. N.'s "Antidote," &c.—I have just purchased an old book, in small quarto, of which the title is—

"An Antidote or Soveraigne Remedie against the pestiferous Writings of all English Sectaries, and inparticular against Dr. Whitaker, Dr. Fulke, Dr. Bilson, Dr. Reynolds, Dr. Sparkes, and Dr. Field, the chiefe upholders, some of Protestancy, some of Puritanisme; divided into three Parts, &c., &c., &c. By S. N., doctour of divinity. Permissu superiorum,MDCXV."

Who is the author S. N., and what other particulars are known respecting it?

Lewis Kelly.

Leeds.

[Sylvester Norris is the author. There is an edition published in 1622, 4to.]

Beads.—When was the use of beads, for the purpose of counting prayers, first introduced into Europe?

C. W. G.

[For the repose of a bishop, by Wilfrid'sCanons of Cealcythe,A.D.816, can.X., seven belts of paternosters were to be said; the prayers being numbered probably by studs fixed on the girdle. But St. Dominic invented the rosary, which contains ten lesser beads representing Ave Marias, to one larger standing for a paternoster.]

(Vol. iv., p. 412.)

With reference to my Note, ascribing a Celtic origin to this symbol, I have just met with somewhat of a curious coincidence, to say the least of it. In Richardson'sTravels in the Sahara, &c., vol. i. p. 420., speaking of the camel, he says:

"The camels have all public and private marks, the former for their country, the latter for their owner; and, strange enough, the public mark of the Ghadames camel is the English broad R." &c. [Arrow, he should have said.]

Now, the Celtic↑(as before mentioned) is typical of superior holiness, &c. &c.; and it is singular that a city of Marabouts (saints or holy men, such as the Ghadamsee are described to be) should have adopted this symbol as their public (or government) mark. The population of Ghadames is a strange medley of Arabs, Touaricks, negroes, half-breeds of all kinds, &c., and whence their claim to superior sanctity does not appear.

That Celtic tribes once sojourned in Northern Africa is attested by Druidical remains in Morocco and elsewhere. Mr. Richardson mentions the frequent occurrence of pyramidal stones in the Sahara, incidentally, without specifying whether they are rocksin sitû, or supposed to be the work of man's hand. The language of Ghadames is one of the Berber dialects; and according to Mr. Urquhart (Pillars of Hercules, vol. i. p. 383.), these, or some of them, are said to contain so much of the Celtic element, that Highlanders from the garrison of Gibraltar, and the natives about Tangier, can mutually understand each other.

The above, however, are mere speculations; and I would suggest that, previous to further research as to the origin of the broad arrow, it would be as well to ascertain how long it has been used as "the King's mark." I should incline to believe that the earliest mark upon government stores was the royal cipher—ER (with a crown above) perhaps. On old guns of Henry VIII. and Elizabeth, we find the rose and crown, but no broad arrow; more frequently Elizabeth's bear her cipher. A few articles I have seen of William III. are stamped withWR(with a crown above): no broad arrow. Nor do I remember having ever seen it upon anything older than George III. This, however, is a question which may interest some gentleman of the Ordnance Department, and induce him to make research where success is most likely to reward his trouble, viz. in the Tower, in the Royal Arsenal at Woolwich, or amongst the ancient records in the Ordnance Office; for I presume there be such.

P. C. S. S. (Vol. iv., p. 371.) says that "he always understood" the broad arrow represented the "Pheon" in the arms of the Sydney family; but, as he quotes no authority, we are at liberty to doubt the adoption and perpetuation of a bearing appertaining to any particular master-general of ordnance as a "king's mark," howsoever illustrious or distinguished he might be.

A. C. M.

Exeter

(Vol. ii., pp. 184. 459.; Vol. iii., p. 21.; Vol. vii., p. 114.)

Returning to this question, I will communicate a few extracts from the Gerechtsdagboeken (Minutes of the Council) of the city of Leyden:—

Sept. 30, 1604.—"Die van de Gerechte opt voorschryven van Zÿne Exeen versouc van Jan Woodtss, Engelsman, hebben toegelaten ende geconsenteert dat hy geduyrende deze aenstaende jaermarct met zyn behulp zal mogen speelen zeecker eerlick camerspel tot vermaeckinge van der gemeente, mits van yder persoen (comende om te bezien) nyet meer te mogen nemen nochte genyeten dan twaelf penn., ende vooral betaelen tot een gootspenning aen handen van Jacob van Noorde; bode metter roede, vier guld. om ten behouve van de armen verstrect te worden."Translation.The magistrates, on the command of his Excellence, and on the request of John Woodtss, an Englishman, have permitted and consented that he, with his company, during the approaching fair, may play certain decent pieces for the amusement of the people, provided he take no more than twelve pennings from each person coming to see, and, above all, pay to Jacob van Noorde four guilders, to be applied to the use of the poor.

Translation.

The magistrates, on the command of his Excellence, and on the request of John Woodtss, an Englishman, have permitted and consented that he, with his company, during the approaching fair, may play certain decent pieces for the amusement of the people, provided he take no more than twelve pennings from each person coming to see, and, above all, pay to Jacob van Noorde four guilders, to be applied to the use of the poor.

And again:

Jan. 6, 1605.—"Op't versouck aen die van de Gerechte gedaen by de Engelsche Comedyanten om te mogen spelen: staet geappostilleert. Die van de Gerechte deser stadt Leyden gesien in haer vergaderinge opt Raedthuys der voors. stede, defavorable brievenvan Recommandatie ende testimoniael vandenForstvanBrandenburchvan deXAugustij des jaers XVIcvier, mitsgaders t consent by Zyne ExievanNassauverleent den xxij Decembris laest verleden, Es disponerende opt versouc int blanc van dezen, hebben voor zoo veel in hem is, de Engelsche Commedianten ende musicyns toonders in dezen, conform haer versouc toegelaten binnen deser stede te mogen spelen en haer consten doen ouffenen ende vertoonen ter gewoenlycke plaetse te weten opten groten hoff onder de bibliotecque, dewelcke hem toonders mits dezen ten eynde voorseyt, belast wert te werden ingeruymt, Ende dit al voor den tyt van veertien dagen eerstcomende, en mits, voor den jegenwoordigegracieuse toelatinge, gevende ten behouve van de gemeene huysarmen dezer stede een somme van twaelf gulden van xl groot tstuck. Aldus, gedaen opten vi January XVIcen̄ vyff. My jegenwoordich en is get. J. van Hout."Translation.On the request to the magistrates of the English comedians to be allowed to perform, was decided: The magistrates of this city of Leyden, having seen in their assembly in the Town-House of the aforesaid city, the favourable letters of recommendation and testimonial of the Prince of Brandenberg of the 10th Aug., 1604, as well as the consent granted by his Excellence of Nassau, the 22nd of Dec. last, have permitted the English comedians and musicians, according to their request, to perform and exercise and exhibit their arts in the accustomed place, namely, in the great court under the library; and this for the space of fourteen days, provided they, for thisgraciouspermission, give twelve guilders of forty groats a-piece to the poor of this city. Done on the 6th Jan., 1605. Me present; and signed "J. van Hout."

Translation.

On the request to the magistrates of the English comedians to be allowed to perform, was decided: The magistrates of this city of Leyden, having seen in their assembly in the Town-House of the aforesaid city, the favourable letters of recommendation and testimonial of the Prince of Brandenberg of the 10th Aug., 1604, as well as the consent granted by his Excellence of Nassau, the 22nd of Dec. last, have permitted the English comedians and musicians, according to their request, to perform and exercise and exhibit their arts in the accustomed place, namely, in the great court under the library; and this for the space of fourteen days, provided they, for thisgraciouspermission, give twelve guilders of forty groats a-piece to the poor of this city. Done on the 6th Jan., 1605. Me present; and signed "J. van Hout."

Elsevier.

Constanter has communicated the following lines of G. A. Brederode, confirming the statements of Heywood and Tieck:

"Ick mach soo langh oock by geen reden-ryckers zijn:Want dit volckje wil steets met allen menschen gecken,En sy kunnen als d'aep haer afterst niet bedecken;Sy seggen op haer les, soo stemmigh en soo stijf,Al waer gevoert, gevult met klap-hout al haer lijf!Waren 'tde Engelsche, of andere uytlandtscheDie men hoort singen, en soo lustigh siet dantseDat sy suyse-bollen, en draeyen als een tol:Sy spreken 't uyt eaer geest, dees leeren 't uyt een rol.'t Isser weer na (seyd ick) als 't is, sey Eelhart schrander,Dat verschil is te groot, besiet men 't een by 't ander!D'uytheemsche die zijn wuft, dees raden tot het goedt,En straffen alle het quaet bedecklelijck en soet."Translation.To stay with rhetoricians I've no mind:The fool they'll play with men of every kind,And, like the ape, exhibit what's behind.With gests so stiff their lesson they repeat,You'd swear with staves their bodies were replete!Heard you themenfrom merryEnglandsing?Saw you their jolly dance, their lusty spring?How like a top they spin, and twirl, and turn?And from the heart they speak—ours from a roll must learn....—From the Navorscher.

"Ick mach soo langh oock by geen reden-ryckers zijn:

Want dit volckje wil steets met allen menschen gecken,

En sy kunnen als d'aep haer afterst niet bedecken;

Sy seggen op haer les, soo stemmigh en soo stijf,

Al waer gevoert, gevult met klap-hout al haer lijf!

Waren 'tde Engelsche, of andere uytlandtsche

Die men hoort singen, en soo lustigh siet dantse

Dat sy suyse-bollen, en draeyen als een tol:

Sy spreken 't uyt eaer geest, dees leeren 't uyt een rol.

't Isser weer na (seyd ick) als 't is, sey Eelhart schrander,

Dat verschil is te groot, besiet men 't een by 't ander!

D'uytheemsche die zijn wuft, dees raden tot het goedt,

En straffen alle het quaet bedecklelijck en soet."

Translation.

To stay with rhetoricians I've no mind:The fool they'll play with men of every kind,And, like the ape, exhibit what's behind.With gests so stiff their lesson they repeat,You'd swear with staves their bodies were replete!Heard you themenfrom merryEnglandsing?Saw you their jolly dance, their lusty spring?How like a top they spin, and twirl, and turn?And from the heart they speak—ours from a roll must learn....—From the Navorscher.

To stay with rhetoricians I've no mind:

The fool they'll play with men of every kind,

And, like the ape, exhibit what's behind.

With gests so stiff their lesson they repeat,

You'd swear with staves their bodies were replete!

Heard you themenfrom merryEnglandsing?

Saw you their jolly dance, their lusty spring?

How like a top they spin, and twirl, and turn?

And from the heart they speak—ours from a roll must learn....—From the Navorscher.

(Vol. v., p. 372.)

A. N. asks for some historical notices of the above fanatics: as he may not be satisfied with Timperley's meagre allusion, allow me to refer him to theMemoirs of the Lord Viscount Dundee: London, 1714. The author of this, "An Officer of the Army," speaking of the stiff-necked Presbyterians, says:

"At this time (1681), about thirty of these deluded people left their families and business, and went to the hills, where they lived in rocks and caves for some weeks. John Gib, sailor in Borrowstowness, Walter Ker, in Trafritham,—— Gemmison, in Linlithgow, were their chief leaders. They called themselves theSweet Singersof Israel, eat nothing that there was salt in or paid tax to the king, blotted the name of king out of their Bibles, and cohabited all together. When a party of dragoons took them at the Ouffins, in Tweeddale, they were all lying on their faces, and jumped up in a minute, and called out with an audible voice, that God Almighty would consume the party with fire from heaven, for troubling the people of God. On the road, as they went to Edinburgh, when any of their relations or acquaintances came to visit them, they spit at them, and threw themselves on their faces, and bellowed like beasts, whereof his Highness (the Duke of York, then in Scotland) being informed, ordered them immediately to be set at liberty."

A more detailed account of these Gibbites will be found in the curious Presbyterian biographies "collected by, and printed for Patrick Walker, in the Bristo-Port of Edinburgh," the early part of last century. In that entitled "Some remarkable Passages in the Life, &c. of Mr. Daniel Cargill:" 12mo. Edin. 1732, A. N. will find the original story of the crazy skipper and his band of "three men and twenty-six women," whom worthy Mr. Cargill endeavoured unsuccessfully to reclaim. From this it would appear that thesweet singerswent far greater lengths than above described, and that Gib, after the dispersion of his followers, took himself off to America, "where," says the aforesaid Patrick, "he was much admired by the blindIndians for his familiar converse with the devil." For the further information of your correspondent, I would add that Walker's account of the Gibbites is very well condensed in that more accessible bookBiographia Scoticana, better known as theScots Worthies, where the deluded Gib figures under the head of "God's Justice exemplified in his Judgments upon Persecutors."

J. O.

(Vol. vii., p. 303.)

Mr. F. F. Spenser published the results of his researches relative to Spenser in theGentleman's Magazinefor August, 1842; and towards the end of his communication promised to record "many further interesting particulars," through the same medium, but failed to do so. Mr. Craik has made special reference to Mr. F. F. Spenser's paper in a little work upon which he must have bestowed a vast deal of labour, and which contains the completest investigation of all that has been discovered concerning the life, works, and descendants of the poet that I have met with: I refer toSpenser and his Poetry: by George L. Craik, M.A.: 3 vols. London, 1845. The appendix to vol. iii., devoted to an account of the descendants of Spenser, among other interesting matter, contains the history of the family descended from Sarah Spenser, a sister of Edmund Spenser, which is still represented. To which I may add that Spenser's own direct descendants are living in the city of Cork, and, I regret to say, in reduced circumstances. This should not be. A pension might well be bestowed on the descendants of Spenser, the only one of our four great poets whose posterity is not extinct.

J. M. B.

Tunbridge Wells.

I have read with much curiosity and surprise a paragraph engrafted into "N. & Q." (Vol. vii., p. 33.) fromThe Timesnewspaper, June 16, 1841, announcing that a Mr. F. F. Spenser, of Halifax, had ascertained that the ancient residence of his own family, at Hurstwood, near Burnley, Lancashire, was the identical spot where the great Elizabethan poet, Edmund Spenser, is said to have retired, when driven by academical disappointments to his relations in the north of England.

I confess all this appears to me very like a hoax, there is such a weight of negative testimony against it. Dr. Whitaker, the learned historian of Whalley, describes Hurstwood Hall as a strong and well-built old house, bearing on its front, in large characters, the name of "Barnard Townley," its founder, and that it was for several descents the property and residence of a family branched out from the parent stock of Townley, in the person of John Townley, third son of Sir Richard Townley, of Townley—died Sept. 1562. His son, Barnard Townley, died 1602, and married Agnes, daughter and coheiress of George Ormeroyd, of Ormeroyd, who died 1586.

It must be remembered that Hurstwood is in the immediate neighbourhood of Dr. Whitaker's ancient patrimonial estate of Holme; and he must have been familiar with all the traditionary history of that locality. Yet he is silent on this subject, and does not allude either to the occasional residence of the poet Spenser in those parts, or to the family of Spensers, who are stated in this paragraph to have resided at Hurstwood about four hundred years.

Clivigee.

(Vol. vii., p. 305.)

Sir John Maundeville says:

"Also, seven miles from Nazareth is Mount Cain, under which is a well; and beside that well Lamech, Noah's father, slew Cain with an arrow. For this Cain went through briars and bushes, as a wild beast; and he had lived from the time of Adam, his father, unto the time of Noah; and so he lived nearly two thousand years. And Lamech was blind for old age."—Travels, chap. x., Bohn'sEarly Travels in Palestine, p. 186.

To which is appended the following note by Mr. Thomas Wright, the editor:

"This legend arose out of an interpretation given to Gen. iv. 23, 24. See, as an illustration, the scene in theCoventry Mysteries, pp. 44. 46.

Zeus.

J. W. M. will find this question discussed at length in theDictionnaire de Bayle, art. "Lamech," and more briefly inPol. Synopsis Criticorum, Gen. iv. 23.

The subject has been engraved by Lasinio in hisPitture a fresco del Campo Santo di Pisa(tom. xvii.), after the original fresco by Buonamico Buffalmacco, whose name is so familiar to readers of theDecameron.

F. C. B.

Bayle relates this legend in his account of Lamech as follows:

"There is a common tradition that Lamech, who had been a great lover of hunting, continued the sport even when, by reason of his great age, he was almost blind. He took with him his son, Tubal-Cain, who not only served him as a guide, but also directed him where and when he ought to shoot at the beast. One day, as Cain was hid among the thickets, Lamech's guide seeing something move in that place, gave him notice of it; whereupon Lamech shot an arrow, and slew Cain. He was extremely concerned at it, and beat his guide so much as to leave him dead upon the place."

One of the frescos of the Campo Santo at Pisa gives the whole subject, from the offering of Abel's and Cain's sacrifice, to the death of the young manby the hand of Lamech, painted by Pietre da Orvieto about 1390. In one corner of the fresco, Cain is depicted as a wild and shaggy figure, crouched in a thicket, at which Lamech, at the suggestion of his guide, shoots an arrow. Below, the homicide is represented as murdering the cause of his error by blows on the head inflicted with his bow.

Cheverells.

The following note upon the name of Lamech may perhaps serve to throw a little light upon the difficult passage in Genesis iv. 23, 24.—Lamech, in CelticLamaich, orLaimaig, means a slinger of stones; and Lamech being dextrous in the use of that weapon the sling, wantonly slew two young men, and boasted of the bloody deed to his two wives, Adah and Zillah, blasphemously maintaining that as Cain for one murder should be avenged sevenfold, so he, for his wanton act, would be avenged seventy and seven fold upon whoever should slay him. It may be considered strange that the name of Lamech should be Celtic, and that it should signify a slinger; but I am strengthened in my opinion by reference to the Hebrew alphabet, in which the letterlis calledlamed; but why it is so named the Hebrews cannot say. Now, if any one examines the Hebrewלhe will perceive that it is by no means a rude representation of a human arm, holding a sling with a stone in it. The wordLamechis derived fromlam, the hand; and the termination signifies dexterity in shooting or discharging missiles therewith.

It is curious to notice that the remaining names in the passage of Scripture are Celtic: thus Cain is compounded ofcend, first, andgein, offspring,—pronouncedKayean,i. e.first begotten. Adah means a fair complexioned, red-haired woman; and Zillah, peace, fromsiotlad, pronouncedshieta.

Francis Crossley.

Photographic Notes.—G. H. P. has communicated (Vol. vii., p. 186.) a very excellent paper in reference to our numerous failures in the collodion process; but the remedies he proposes are not, as he is aware, infallible. He gives the recommendation you find in every work on the subject, viz. to lift the plate up and down in the bath to allow evaporation of ether. I have made experiments day after day to ascertain the value of this advice, and I am convinced, as far as my practice goes, that you gain nothing by it; indeed, I am sure that I much oftener get a more even film when the plate is left in the bath for about two minutes without lifting it out. I should be glad of other photographers' opinion on the point.

I have never found any benefit, but much the contrary, from re-dipping the plate in the bath; and I may observe the same of mixing a drop or two of silver solution with the developing fluid.

I think with G. H. P. that the developing solution should be weak for positives.

I omitted, in my description of a new head-rest, to say that it is better to have all the parts in metal; and that the hole, through which the arm runs, should be a square mortice instead of a round one, as is usual. A screw at the side sets it fast; the lower portion of the upright piece being round, and sliding up and down in a tube of metal, as it does in the best rests, allowing the sitter to be placed in different positions. All this is very difficult to describe, but a slight diagram would explain it easily, which I would willingly, as I have before said, send to any one thinking it worth writing to me for.

J. L. Sisson.

Edingthorpe Rectory.

On some Difficulties in Photographic Practice.—Being desirous to have a glass bath for the silver, I was glad to find you had given (in "Notices to Correspondents") directions for making one, viz. two parts best red sealing-wax to one part of Jeffries' marine glue. I tried this, but found the application of it to the glass impossible, as it set immediately. Now, can you afford room for the means by which this may be remedied; as my wish to substitute glass for gutta percha remains?

Now I am addressing you, may I offer one or two hints which may be of service to beginners? If, after what has been considered a sufficient washing of the glass, after the hypo., during the drying, crystals from hypo. remaining appear, and which would most certainly destroy the picture, I have found that bybreathing wellover these parts, and immediately repeating the washing, all ill effects are thoroughly prevented. To substitute hot water instead of breathing does not destroy the hyposulphite, and therefore will not do.

When the plate shall be dry after the washing process, if a leaden, dim, grey appearance occurs, I have found that by tenderly rubbing it with fine cotton, and applying with a good-sized camel's hair pencil a varnish of about 8-10ths spirits of turpentine and 2-10ths mastic varnish, and then, before this gets dry, putting on the black varnish, the grey effect will have been removed.

I have found the protonitrate of iron, as also the protosulphate, and not seldom the pyrogallic, so difficult of application, that I have stained and spoiled very good pictures. I have therefore used, and with perfect success, a tray of gutta percha a little longer than the glass (say one-fourth of an inch), and one-fourth of an inch deep; sliding from one end the glass into the tray (supplied immediately before using it), by which means the glass is all covered at once.

I think theRev. Mr. Sisson'ssuggestion, viz. to send you some of our specimens with collodion,a very proper one, if not declined on your own part, and shall, for one, feel great pleasure in acting in accordance with it.

You will, I trust, pardon any foregoing hints for beginners, as I well know that I have lost several pictures by hypo-crystals, and very many by the difficulty in developing.

L. Merritt.

Maidstone.

P.S.—I always find collodion byDr. Diamond'sformula capital, and with it from five to ten seconds is time enough.

Mr. Weld Taylor's cheap Iodizing Process.—I have no doubtMr. Weld Taylorwill be kind enough to explain to me two difficulties I find in his cheap iodizing process for paper.

In the first place, whence arises the caustic condition of his solution, unless it be through the decomposition of the cyanide of potassium which is sometimes added? and if such caustic condition exists, does it not cause a deposition of oxide of silver together with the iodide, thereby embrowning the paper?

Why does the caustic condition of the solution require a larger dose of nitrate of silver, and does not this larger quantity of nitrate of silver more than outbalance the difference between the new process and the old, as regards price? I pay 1s.3d.for an ounce of iodide of potassium of purest quality; the commoner commercial quality is cheaper.

F. Maxwell Lyte.

Somersetshire Ballad(Vol. vii., p. 236.).—

"Go vind the vicar of Taunton Deane," &c.

S. A. S. will find the above inThe Aviary, or Magazine of British Melody, a square volume published about the middle of last century; or in a volume bearing the running title—A Collection of diverting Songs, Airs, &c., of about the same period—both extensive depôts of old song; the first containing 1344, and the last, as far as my mutilated copy goes, extending to nearly 500 pages quarto.

J. O.

Family of De Thurnham(Vol. vii., p. 261.).—In reply to Θ. I send a few notes illustrative of the pedigree, &c. of the De Thurnhams, lords of Thurnham, in Kent, deduced from Dugdale, public records, and MS. charters in my possession, namely, the MS. Rolls of Combwell Priory, which was founded by Robert de Thurnham the elder; from which it appears that Robert de Thurnham, who lived tempore Hen. II., had two sons, Robert and Stephen. Of these, Robert married Joan, daughter of William Fossard, and died 13 John, leaving a daughter and sole heir Isabel, for whose marriage Peter de Maulay had to pay 7000 marks, which were allowed him in his accounts for services rendered to the crown. Stephen, the other son, married Edelina, daughter of Ralph de Broc, and, dying circiter 16 John, was buried in Waverley Abbey, Surrey. He seems to have left five daughters and coheirs; viz. Mabilia, wife of Ralph de Gatton, and afterwards of Thomas de Bavelingeham; Alice, wife of Adam de Bending; Alianore, wife of Roger de Leybourne; Beatrice, wife of Ralph de Fay; and Alienore, wife of Ralph Fitz-Bernard. Dugdale and the Combwell Rolls speak of only four daughters, making no mention of the wife of Ralph Fitz-Bernard; but an entry on the Fine Rolls would seem almost necessarily to imply that she was one of the five daughters and coheiresses. If not adaughter, she was insome waycoheiress with the daughters; which is confirmed by an entry inTesta de Nevill: and, by a charter temp. Edw. I., I find Roger de Northwood, husband of Bona Fitz-Bernard, in possession of the manor of Thurnham, with every appearance of its having been by inheritance of his wife. With this explanation, I have ventured to include Alianore, wife of Ralph Fitz-Bernard, as among the daughters and coheiresses of Stephen de Thurnham. The issue of all of these marriages, after a few years, terminated in female representatives—among them the great infanta Juliana de Leybourne—mingling their blood with the Denes, Towns, Northwoods, Wattons, &c., and other ancient families of Kent.

I have two beautiful seals of Sir Stephen de Thurnham temp. John,—a knight fully caparisoned on horseback, but not a trace of armorial bearings on his shield; nor, in truth, could we expect to find any such assigned to him at that early period.

L. B. L.

Major-General Lambert(Vol. vii., pp. 237. 269.).—Lambert did not survive his sentence more than twenty-one years. His trial took place in 1661, and he died during the hard winter of 1683.

The last fifteen years of his life were spent on the small fortified island of St. Nicholas, commonly called Drake's Island, situated in Plymouth Sound, at the entrance to the Hamoaze.

Lambert's wife and two of his daughters were with him on this island in 1673. (See "N. & Q.," Vols. iv. and v.)

J. Lewelyn Curtis.

Loggerheads(Vol. v., p. 338.; and Vol. vii., pp. 192-3.).—Your correspondentCambrensis, whose communication on this subject I have read with much interest, will excuse my correcting him in one or two minor points of his narrative. The little wayside inn at Llanverres, rendered famous by the genius of the painter Wilson, is still standing in its original position, on theleft-hand of the road as you pass through that village to Ruthin. Woodward, who was landlord of the inn at the time Wilson frequented it, survived his friendabout sixteen years, leaving six children (two sons and four daughters), none of whom however, asCambrensissurmises, succeeded him as landlord. His widow shortly afterwards married Edward Griffiths, a man many years her Junior, and who, at the periodCambrensisalludes to, and for a lone time previous, was "mine host" of the "Loggerheads." Griffiths died about three years ago, after amassing a large property by mining speculations in the neighbourhood. There are, I believe, several fine paintings by Wilson in the new hall of Colomendy, now the residence of the relict of Col. Garnons. The old house, where Wilson lived, was taken down about thirty years ago, to make way for the present structure.

T. Hughes.

Chester.

Grafts and the Parent Tree(Vol. vii., p. 261.).—In reply to J. P. of this town, I beg to say that the belief, that "the graft perishes when the parent tree decays," is merely one among a host of superstitions reverently cherished by florists. The fact is, that grafts, after some fifteen years, wear themselves out. Of course there cannot be wanting many examples of the almost synchronous demise of parent and graft. From such cases, no doubt, the myth in question took its rise.

C. Mansfield Ingleby.

Birmingham.

The Lisle Family(Vol. vii., pp. 236. 269.).—Mr. Garland'sQuery has induced me to inquire, through the same channel, whether anything is known about a family of this name, some of whom are buried at Thruxton in Hampshire. There are four monuments in the church, two of which are certainly, the others probably, erected to members of the family. The first is a very fine brass (described in the OxfordCatalogue of Brasses), inscribed to Sir John Lisle, Lord of Boddington in the Isle of Wight, who diedA.D.1407. The next in date, and I suppose of much the same period, is an altar-tomb under an arch, which seems to have led into a small chantry. On this there are no arms, and no inscription. The tomb is now surmounted by the figure of a Crusader, which once lay outside the church, and is thought to be one of the Lisles, and the founder of the original church. On the north side of the chancel two arches looked into what was once a chantry chapel. In the eastern arch is an altar-tomb, once adorned with shields, which are now torn off. This chantry stood within the memory of "the oldest inhabitant;" but it was pulled down by the owner of the land appertaining to the chantry, and of its materials was built the church tower. One of its windows forms the tower window, and its battlements and pinnacles serve their old purpose in their new position. A modern vestry occupies part of the site of the chantry, and shows one side the altar-tomb I have last mentioned. This side has been refaced in Jacobian style, and the arms of Lisle and Courtenay, and one other coat (the same which occur on the brass), form part of the decoration. Two figures belonging to this later work lie now on the altar-tomb, and many more are remembered to have existed inside the chantry. The mixture of this late Jacobian work with the old work of the chantry is very curious, and can be traced all over what remains of it. The initials T. L. appear on shields under the tower battlements.

I should be glad to find that these Lisles would throw any light on the subject ofMr. Garland'sinquiry; and if they do not, perhaps some of your readers can give some information about them.

The coat of arms of this family is—Or, on a chief gules, three lioncels rampant of the first.

R. H. C.

The Dodo in Ceylon(Vol. vii., p. 188.).—The bird whichSir J. Emerson Tennentidentifies with the dodo is common on Ceylonese sculpture. The natives say it is now extinct, and call it theHangsiya, or sacred goose; but whether deemed sacred for the same reason as the Capitoline goose, or otherwise, I must leave the author ofEleven Years in Ceylonto explain, he being the person in this country most conversant with Ceylonese mythology.

I now wish to callSir Emerson'sattention to a coincidence that may be worthy his notice in connexion with his forthcoming work on Ceylon.

If he will take the trouble to examine the model of the Parthenon, in the Elgin Marble room of the British Museum, he cannot fail, to be struck with its resemblance to the beautiful building he visited at Polonaroowa, called the Jaitoowanarama. The dimensions of the respective buildings I cannot at present ascertain; but the ground-plans are precisely similar, and each was roofless. But the most striking resemblance is in the position and altitude of the statues: that of the gigantic Bhoodho is precisely similar, even in the posture of the right arm and hand, to that of Minerva, the masterpiece of Phidias. On consulting his notes, he may find the height of the statues to correspond. That of Phidias was thirty-nine feet.

Ol. Mem. Ju.

Glen Tulchan.

Thomas Watson, Bishop of St. David's, 1687-99(Vol. vii., p. 234.).—This harshly-treated prelate died at Great Wilbraham, near Cambridge, on June 3, 1717, æt. eighty years; and, from a private letter written at the time, seems to have been buried in haste in the chancel of that church, "but without any service," which may perhaps imply that there was not a funeral sermon, and the ordinary ceremony at a prelate's burial. It is, however intimated that he died excommunicated. In Paulson'sHistory of Holdernessis a notice of Bishop Watson, and of his relatives the Medleys, who are connected with my family by marriage; but the statement that the bishop "died in the Tower" is incorrect (vol. i. Part II. p. 283.; vol. ii. Part I. p. 47.; Part II. p. 542., 4to., 1840-1).

F. R. R.

Milnrow Parsonage.

He died in retirement at Wilburgham, or Wilbraham, in the county of Cambridge, June 3, 1717, ætat. eighty.—See Gough'sCamden, vol. ii. p. 140., andGentleman's Magazine, vols. lix. and lx.

Bishop Gobat was born in 1799, at Cremine, in the perish of Grandval, in Switzerland. His name is not to be found in the list of graduates of either Oxford or Cambridge. His degree of D. D. was probably bestowed on him by the Archbishop of Canterbury.

Tyro.

Dublin.

Etymology of Fuss(Vol. vii., p. 180.).—

"Fuss,n. s., a low, cant word, Dr. Johnson says. It is, however, a regularly-descended northern word: Sax.Ƒuſ, prompt, eager; Su. Goth. and Cimbr.f u s, the same; hence the Sax.Ƒẏſan, to hasten, and the Su. Goth.f y s a, the same."—Todd'sJohnson.

Richardson gives the same etymology, referring to Somner. Webster says, "allied, perhaps, to Gr.φυσαω, to blow or puff."

Zeus.

A reference to the word in Todd'sJohnson's Dictionarywill show, and I think satisfactorily, that its origin isfus(Anglo-Saxon), prompt or eager; hencefysan, to hasten. The quotation given is from Swift.

C. I. R.

Palindromical Lines(Vol. vii., p. 178.).—The sotadic inscription,

"ΝΙΨΟΝ ΑΝΟΜΗΜΑ ΜΗ ΜΟΝΑΝ ΟΨΙΝ,"

is stated (Gentleman's Magazine, vol. xl. p. 617.) to be on a font at Sandbach in Cheshire, and (Gentleman's Magazine, vol. lxiii. p. 441.) to be on the font at Dulwich in Surrey, and also on the font at Harlow in Essex.

Zeus.

Nugget(Vol. vi., pp. 171. 281.; Vol. vii., pp. 143. 272.).—Furvusis persuaded that the wordnuggetis of home growth, and has sprung from a root existing under various forms throughout the dialects at present in use. The radical appears to besnag,knag, ornag(Knoge, Cordylus, cf.Knuckle), a protuberance, knot, lump; being a term chiefly applied to knots in trees, rough pieces of wood, &c., and in its derivatives strongly expressive of (so to speak) misshapenlumpiness.

Every one resident in the midland counties must be acquainted with the wordnog, applied to the wooden ball used in the game of "shinney," the corresponding term of which,nacket, holds in parts of Scotland, where also a short, corpulent person is called anuget.

So, in Essex,nigsignifies a piece; asnagis a well-known word across the Atlantic;nogsare ninepins in the north of England; anogginof bread is equivalent to ahunchin the midland counties; and in the neighbourhood of the Parret and Exe the word becomesnug, bearing (besides its usual acceptation) the meaning ofknot,lump.

This supposed derivation is by no means weakened by the fact, that miners and others have gone to the "diggins" from parts at no great distance from the last-mentioned district; and we may therefore, although the radical is pretty generally diffused over the kingdom, attribute its better known application tothem.

It is no objection that the word, in many of its forms, is used of rough pieces ofwood, as instances show that it merely refers to arudis indigestaque molescharacteristic of any article in question.

Furvus.

St. James's.

Hibernis ipsis Hiberniores(Vol. vii., p. 260.).—This, which is no doubt the proper form, will be found in Southey'sNaval History of England, vol. iv. p. 104., applied to "those of old English race who, having adopted the manners of the land, had become more Irish than the Irishry." The expression originally was applied to these persons in some proclamation or act of parliament, which I think is quoted in theHistory of Englandin Lardner'sCabinet Cyclopædia: but that work has so bad an index as to make it very difficult to find any passage one may want. Probably Southey would mention the source whence he had it, in his collections for hisNaval Historyin his Commonplace Book.

E. G. R.

The Passame Sares (mel. Passamezzo) Galliard(Vol. vi., pp. 311. 446.; Vol. vii., p. 216.).—Will you allow me to correct a mistake into which both the correspondents who have kindly answered my questions respecting this galliard seem to have fallen, perhaps misled by an ambiguity in my expression?

My inquiry was not intended to refer togalliards in general, the tunes of which, I am well aware, must have been very various, but to thisonegalliard in particular; and was made with the view of ascertaining whether the air is ever playedat the present dayduring the representation of the Second Part ofKing Henry IV.

C. Forbes.

Temple.

Swedish Words current in England(Vol. ii., p. 231.).—I beg to inform your correspondent that the following words, which occur in his list, are pure Anglo-Saxon, bearing almost the same meaning which he has attributed to them:—wÿrm;by,bya, to inhabit,becc;dioful;dobl, equivalent todoalig:gœpung, a heap;lacan;loppe;nebb;smiting, contagion;stæth, a fixed basis.

Eldonis Icelandic, fromelldr, fire: hence we have "At slá elld úr tinnu," to strike fire from flint; which approaches very near to a tinder-box.Ling, Icel., the heath or heather plant:ljungI take to be the same word.Gat, Icel. for way or opening; hencestrand-gata, the opening of the strand or creek.Tjarn,tiorn, Icel., well exemplified in Malham Tarn in Craven.

C. I. R.

Gotch(Vol. vi., p. 400.).—Thegotch cup, described by W. R., must have been known in England before the coming of the present royal family, as it is given in Bailey'sDictionary(1730) as a south country word: it is not likely to have become provincial in so short a time, nor its origin, if German, to have escaped the notice of oldΦιλὁλογος. The A.-S. verbgeotanseems to have had the sense of to cast metals, asgiessenhas in German. In Bosworth'sAnglo-Saxon Dictionaryisleadgota, a plumber. In modern Dutch this islootgieter. Thus, fromgeotanis derivedingot(Germ.einguss), as well as the following words in Halliwell'sDictionary: yete, to cast metals (Pr. Parv.),belleyetereandbellyatere, a bell-founder (Pr. Parv.);geat, the hole through which melted metal runs into a mould; andyote, to pour in. Grose hasyoted, watered, a west country word.

E. G. R.

Passage in Thomson: "Steaming"(Vol. vii., pp. 87. 248.).—This word, and notstreaming, is clearly the true reading (as is remarked by the former correspondents), and is so printed in the editions to which I am able to refer. The object of my Note is to point out a parallel passage in Milton, and to suggest thatsteamingwould there also be the proper reading:

Back to Index Next