"'Mary did not herself prepareWith cradle-clothes to her hand there,In which her dear child to wind.Soon as Joseph this did find,His hosen from his legs he drew,Which to this day at Aix they show,And with them those holy clothes did makeIn which God first man's form did take.'
"'Mary did not herself prepare
With cradle-clothes to her hand there,
In which her dear child to wind.
Soon as Joseph this did find,
His hosen from his legs he drew,
Which to this day at Aix they show,
And with them those holy clothes did make
In which God first man's form did take.'
"It is true that we look upon these descriptions with modern eyes, not taking into consideration that our manners and customs, that our general views, in short, are not at all times in unison with those of the fifteenth century. But even if we are always right in these and similar cases, still we cannot deny that there often lies in these old poems what we, notwithstanding we are in the possession of the most exquisite skill, cannot at all reach,—an infinitenaïveté, a touching simplicity. Especially rich in this respect are the songs which describe the flight of the Holy Family into Egypt:
"'Joseph he did leap and run,Until an ass's foal he won,Whereon he set the maiden mild,And with her that most blessed child.'
"'Joseph he did leap and run,
Until an ass's foal he won,
Whereon he set the maiden mild,
And with her that most blessed child.'
"The whole idyllic life which they led in that country is told to us in a few unpretending traits:
"'Joseph he led the ass,The bridle held he;What found they by the way,But a date tree?Oh! ass's foal thou must stand still,To gather dates it is our will,So weary are we.The date tree bowed to the earth,To Mary's knee;Mary would fill her lapFrom the date tree.Joseph was an old man,And wearied was he;Mary, let the date tree bide,We have yet forty miles to ride,And late it will be.Let us pray this blessed childGrant us mercie.'
"'Joseph he led the ass,
The bridle held he;
What found they by the way,
But a date tree?
Oh! ass's foal thou must stand still,
To gather dates it is our will,
So weary are we.
The date tree bowed to the earth,
To Mary's knee;
Mary would fill her lap
From the date tree.
Joseph was an old man,
And wearied was he;
Mary, let the date tree bide,
We have yet forty miles to ride,
And late it will be.
Let us pray this blessed child
Grant us mercie.'
"Nay, these simple songs even inform us how the Holy family laboured for their subsistence in this 'strange countree:'
"'Mary, that maiden dear,Well could she spin;Joseph as a carpenter,Could his bread win.When Joseph was grown old,That no longer work he could,The thread he wound,And Jesus to rich and poorCarried it round.'"
"'Mary, that maiden dear,
Well could she spin;
Joseph as a carpenter,
Could his bread win.
When Joseph was grown old,
That no longer work he could,
The thread he wound,
And Jesus to rich and poor
Carried it round.'"
WILLIAMJ. THOMS.
—I believe that a likeness always exists in members of the same family, though it maynot alwaysbe seen, and, even then, not byeverybody. I have seen at times a striking likeness in a pretty face to that of a plain one in the same family.
In one of theEdinburgh Journals(Chambers') a stranger is said to have remarked the likenessto the portraits of Sir William Wallace of a passer-by, and was then informed by his companion that he was adescendant.
I am witness of a strong likeness in a young man, born in 1832, to the portrait of his great-great-uncle, born in 1736,—which carries back the inherited likeness to the latter's father, who was born in 1707, and married 1730. It is no mere fancy of my own, but has been noticed by several on seeing the portrait.
A. C.
—Happening to pitch upon the following extract, I forward it to you in the belief that it may, at the present time, have an interest for some of your readers:—
"I have met with some of these trulles in London so disguised that it hath passed my skills to discerne whether they were men or women."—Hollinshed,Description of England.
X. X. X.
—Carved in a beam over the town hall of Much Wenlock, in Shropshire, stands (or perhaps stood, for the building was very old thirty years since) the following curious verses:
"Hic locus odit, amat, punit, conservat, honorat,Nequitiam, pacem, crimina, jura, bonos."
"Hic locus odit, amat, punit, conservat, honorat,
Nequitiam, pacem, crimina, jura, bonos."
I am not aware if they have appeared previously in your publication; but they are worthy of preservation, I think, if for nothing else, for the oddity of linking one line with another.
There is also a couple of lines on the town hall, Windsor, underneath a miserable statue of Queen Anne:
"Arte tuâ, sculptor, non est imitabilis Anna,Annæ vis similem sculpere? sculpe Deam."
"Arte tuâ, sculptor, non est imitabilis Anna,
Annæ vis similem sculpere? sculpe Deam."
The unintentional satire conveyed in the first line is very appropriate, as the statue is a thing of wood, and forcibly reminds one of thecharmingstatue of George IV. formerly at King's Cross.
PROCURATOR.
The question of the age of trees, introduced to your notice by your very able correspondent L. (Vol. iv., p. 401.), and touched upon by several others, is a subject of peculiar interest, and yet I scarcely know any ancient memorials which have been so much neglected by antiquarian inquirers. How seldom has any systematic attempt been made to collect the existing historical evidence relating to them, and of the few weak efforts which have been put forth in that direction, how insignificant have been the results! Such evidence exists in a great variety of quarters, and if your correspondents could be persuaded to adopt L.'s suggestion, and take up the matter in a really serious spirit, the nature of your publication, and the wide extent of your circulation, render your pages singularly well adapted for doing really effective service in a cause which is equally interesting to the naturalist and the antiquary. What is wanted is, that antiquarian students should bring forward the facts respecting historical trees which are to be found in ancient evidences of all kinds, and that local knowledge should be applied to the identification of such trees wherever it is possible. If this were done—done, that is, thoroughly and carefully—I cannot doubt that an antiquity would be satisfactorily established in reference to many trees and clumps of trees still existing throughout the kingdom, which it would now be thought supremely wild and fanciful even to imagine. I would not go the length of anticipating that we might establish the identity of some grove in which druidical mysteries have been celebrated, or (to adopt the words of Sir Walter Scott) of some "broad-headed, short-stemmed, wide-branched" monarchs of the forest, "which had witnessed the march of the Roman soldiery;" I should almost despair even of identifying the thorns on Ash Down (a place itself named from some celebrated tree), around which the battle raged between Alfred and the Danes: but every one at all acquainted with ancient documents knows how frequently they contain allusions to celebrated trees; and it is perfectly possible that trees which sheltered King John in his continual wild, impulsive, Arab-like flights from place to place, or under which the Edwards halted in their marches to Scotland or Wales, may yet be pointed out. I have no doubt that Evelyn saw evidence that the Tortworth Great Chestnut was a boundary tree in the days of King Stephen; and if such evidence is not now forthcoming, I by no means despair of its re-discovery, if any one will set himself seriously to search for it. We learn in Pepys,[3]that in his time, in the forest of Dean, there were still standing the old "Vorbid" or "forbid" trees of the time of Edward III.; that is (I presume), the trees which were left standing as marks or boundaries when there was a great felling of timber in the reign of Edward III. Perhaps some of your correspondents can tell us whether there are any such trees known in the forest of Dean now.
[3]Pepys's Diary, ii. 18.
The recurrence of the mention of celebrated trees in early charters, is far more frequent than any one who has not examined the subject would suppose. There was no kind of "mark" or "bound" more common amongst ancient people, or more frequently mentioned in their written evidences, than large or celebrated trees. Any one may satisfy himself upon this point by asimple reference to Mr. Kemble's invaluableCodex Diplomaticus. I have just taken down the third volume of that work, and, dipping into it at random, at p. 448. I find the following, in the enumeration of the bounds of some lands at Brokenborough, in Wilts:—
"From thence to the mark which is called the Apple-Thorn, and from the same apple-bearing tree, by the public street, to Woubourne, and along the same water by a straight course to Geresbourne, and along the same stream in a straight course to Ordwoldes wood, which is now called Bradene, and through the same wood for about three miles to the boundary mark, which is called holehoke" [Holy Oak].
Here are intimations which must have been recognizable in the spot for centuries afterwards.
At p. 343. of the same volume, we read of "Kentwines Tree" at Shipford, and "Adulfes Tree" and "Hysemannes Thorn" at Mickleton. At p. 336. is mention of "the single thorn" by Ellenford, and the "Kolan Tree" and "Huredes Tree," near the same place. At p. 328. we read of "the Hundred Tree" at Winchendon. At p. 174. of "Dunemannes Tree" at Bladen.
In vol. v. at p. 297. we have a remarkable description of boundaries at Blewbury, in Berkshire, in which we read, if I interpret correctly:—
"From Hawkthorn [now Hackthorn] to the Long Thorn on the Ikenild way; thence to the Third Thorn at Wirhangran; thence to the Fourth Thorn which stands forward on Wrangan Hill; thence to the Fifth Thorn; thence to the Olive Tree; thence west along the bye road to the Thorn"—and so forth.
In the same description we read of several "Treowstealls," which mean, I suppose, clumps of trees, and amongst them of "Athelstanes Treowsteal."
In vol. vi. at p. 8. we read of "Frigedæges Tree," at Ginge, in Berkshire; at p. 60., of "Wiggerdes Tree," at Plush, in Dorsetshire; and innumerable other instances may be found throughout the book. These have occurred to me on just opening the volumes here and there, and are adduced merely to explain to persons unacquainted with theCodex Diplomaticus, the nature of the information upon this subject which it contains; and there are many other books from which similar facts may be derived.
The examples I have given exhibit the various parts which conspicuous trees were made to play in ancient times. The Holy Oak and Frigedæges Tree had, no doubt, been consecrated to superstition; the Hundred Tree marked a place for the general assembly of the people of a district; the trees distinguished by the prefixed names of individuals, indicated that they stood on the properties of private owners,—on lands, that is, which the owners had "called after their own names." The memory of many historical trees is probably preserved to the present day in the names of the fields in which they stood. How many Mickle Thorn coppices, and Broad Oak pastures, and Long Tree meadows, and Old Yew pieces are scattered over the country. How many hundreds, and other larger divisions of counties, are named after ancient trees. How many of the old Saxon names of our towns and hamlets indicate that they grew up around a well-known oak, or ash, or thorn, or yew; in like manner as, in later periods, when strength rather than law was the ruler, the people crowded together their hovels under the protective shadow of the castle of some powerful chieftain, or within the privileged precincts of some consecrated fane.
Having thus indicated, or rather enforced, a subject which I think well deserves the attention of your correspondents all over the world, allow me to conclude with a Query relating to a celebrated tree, of a comparatively modern date, which once existed in the neighbourhood of the metropolis.
THEGREATELM ATHAMPSTEAD.—Where did it stand? What was its ultimate fate? When and how was it compelled to yield to the great leveller? It is delineated in a very scarce engraving by Hollar, which bears the date of 1653, and which is found on a poetical commemorative broadside, printed in that year. This tree, although then in full leaf, or so represented in Hollar's engraving, was entirely hollow. A staircase of forty-two steps had been contrived within its stem, by means of which visitors ascended to a turret erected on the top, which was capacious enough to give seats to six persons, and to contain twenty persons in the whole. The stem of the tree was twenty-eight feet in compass on the ground, and the ascent to the turret was thirty-three feet. The tree must have stood on some of the highest ground at Hampstead, for it is said that six neighbouring counties could be seen from the top of it. The Thames is mentioned as visible from it, with its shipping; and the following lines indicate the wide expanse which it commanded. The lines were written just at the time when Cromwell was about to assume the Protectorate.
"Those stately structures where the courtHad late their mansions, when our kings would sport;Of whom deprived they mourn, and, desolate,Like widows, look on their forlorn estate:'Tis not smooth Richmond's streams, nor Acton's mill,Nor Windsor Castle, nor yet Shooter's Hill,Nor groves, nor plains, which further off do stand,Like landscapes portray'd by some happy hand:But a swift view, which most delightful shows,And doth them all, and all at once, disclose."[4]
"Those stately structures where the court
Had late their mansions, when our kings would sport;
Of whom deprived they mourn, and, desolate,
Like widows, look on their forlorn estate:
'Tis not smooth Richmond's streams, nor Acton's mill,
Nor Windsor Castle, nor yet Shooter's Hill,
Nor groves, nor plains, which further off do stand,
Like landscapes portray'd by some happy hand:
But a swift view, which most delightful shows,
And doth them all, and all at once, disclose."[4]
[4]These lines are by Robert Codrington, respecting whom a reference may be made to Wood'sAthenæ, iii. 699. Bliss's ed.
Such was the entire command of the country which this tree enjoyed, that it is said that
"Only Harrow on the Hill plays Rex,And will have none more high in Middlesex."
"Only Harrow on the Hill plays Rex,
And will have none more high in Middlesex."
"Essex Broad Oak" [where did that stand?] from which more than twenty miles could be seen, is poetically declared to have been "but a twig" in comparison with his relative at Hampstead; to find whose equal it is stated that
"You must as far as unto Bordeaux go."
"You must as far as unto Bordeaux go."
There are other things worth remembering in connexion with this wonder of Hampstead: but I have occupied already more than enough of your space, and will only express my hope that some one will tell us where the Hampstead tree stood, and what was its fate; and what is known about the Essex Broad Oak; and what also about the Bordeaux compeer of the tree monarch of Hampstead.
JOHNBRUCE.
—You will much oblige me by permitting me to ask, through the medium of your entertaining publication, from whence the two following quotations were cited:
"Inveni portum.—Spes et fortuna valete:Sat me lusistis; ludite nunc alios.""Forthey, 'twasthey, unsheath'd the ruthless blade,And Heav'n shall ask the havock it has made."
"Inveni portum.—Spes et fortuna valete:Sat me lusistis; ludite nunc alios."
"Inveni portum.—Spes et fortuna valete:
Sat me lusistis; ludite nunc alios."
"Forthey, 'twasthey, unsheath'd the ruthless blade,And Heav'n shall ask the havock it has made."
"Forthey, 'twasthey, unsheath'd the ruthless blade,
And Heav'n shall ask the havock it has made."
The first will be found inGil Blas, livre 10ième, chapitre 10ième; and the second is used by the renegade Paul Jones in his mock-heroic epistle to the Countess of Selkirk, in extenuation of his having plundered the family seat in Scotland of the plate, on the 23rd April, 1778.
I should not trouble you, but I have asked many, of extensive reading and retentive memories, for solution of these Queries ineffectually.
AMICUS.
—Can any of your correspondents, learned in naval antiquities and biographies, give any account of Matthew Walker, whose knot (described and figured in Darcy Lever'sSheet Anchor) is known by his name all over the world; and truly said to be "a handsome knot for the end of a Lanyard?"
REGEDONUM.
—The east gate of the town of Bury St. Edmund's, which was always under the exclusive control of the abbot, is sometimes mentioned as "the Aleclenegate." What is the origin of the word?
BURIENSIS.
—I can recollect, when I was a boy, to have been much surprised and horrified with the accounts that old people gave me, that it was the practice in decided cases ofrabies caninato suffocate the unfortunate patient between feather beds. The disease being so suddenly and so invariably fatal, where it appeared unequivocally to attack the sufferer, might dispose the world to ascribe the death to what surely may be termed foul play; but perhaps some of your readers may be able to state where mention is made of such treatment, or what could give rise to such an opinion in the public mind.
INDAGATOR.
—In Haydn'sBook of Dignities, p. 475., there is the following note on the name of the prelate:—
"Sir James Ware, or, more properly, the subsequent editors of his works, narrate some very extraordinary circumstances that rendered the close of the life of this prelate very remarkable and unfortunate; but we feel unwilling to transcribe them, though there seems to be no doubt of their truth."
As Sir James Ware died in 1666, and the latest edition of his work on the Bishops of Ireland (by Walter Harris) was published in 1736, it is impossible that either he, or his subsequent editors, could have recorded anything of the last days of a prelate who died Nov. 2, 1752.
Mr. Haydn, however, speaks as if he had actually before him the mysterious narrative which he has gone so far out of his way to allude to, and which for some equally mysterious reason he was "unwilling to transcribe," although he thought it necessary to call attention to it, and to express his inclination to believe in its truth.
If this should meet his eye, would Mr. Haydn have the kindness to say where he found the story in question, as it is certainly not in Ware? I know of two stories, one of which is probably that to which Mr. Haydn has called the attention of his readers; but I have never seen them stated with such clearness, or on such authority, as would lead me to the conclusion that "there seemed no doubt of their truth."
JAMESH. TODD.
Trinity College, Dublin.
—I am in possession of a copy of the above work, presented to my father by the late amiable authoress, Miss Porter. It is, as you are no doubt aware, a journal of adventure in the Carribean Sea and its islands, between 1733 and 1749; but on the publication of the first edition its authenticity was questioned, and a suggestion made by some of the critics that the editor was also the author. This, Miss Porter assured me was not the fact, and that the work is a genuine diary, placed in her hands for publication by the family, still existing, of the original writer. The name I think she intimated was notSeaward, but she expressed some hesitation to detail the circumstances of its coming into her possession. She makes, in a preface to the second edition, an assuranceto the same effect as to the genuineness of the Narrative, and says the author diedat his seat in Gloucestershire in the year 1774.
Can any of your readers throw further light on this story, or inform who the hero of the Narrative really was?
W.W.E.T.
Warwick Square, Belgravia.
—In a note in p. 4. ofThe Lexington Papers, recently published, mention is made of a Mr. Robert Sutton, who, after having taken deacon's orders, and having accompanied his relative, Lord Lexington, to Vienna, in the joint capacity of chaplain and secretary, was, on his recall in 1697, appointed resident minister at the Imperial Court; was subsequently sent as envoy extraordinary to the Ottoman Porte; in 1720, succeeded Lord Stair as British minister at Paris; in 1721, was elected M.P. for Notts; and in 1725, was created Knight of the Bath. The editor adds this remark:
"It is well known that holy orders were not at that time considered any disqualification for civil employments, but I do not recollect any other instance of a clerical Knight of the Bath."
Do you, Mr. Editor, or any of your readers, recollect any other instance since the Reformation, of aclerical member of parliament, before the celebrated one of Horne Tooke? Were any such instances quoted in the debates on the bill for excluding clergymen from Parliament?
CLERICUS.
—Can any of you correspondents furnish me with the arms borne by the Allens of Rossull and Redivales, Lancashire? Of this family was the celebrated Cardinal Allen. Also the arms borne by the Pendleburys, another Lancashire family?
J.C.
—In Exod. xii. 37. it is stated that the numbers of the children of Israel constituting the Exodus was "600,000 men," "besides children." No specific mention is made ofwomen: it will be diminishing the difficulty if the 600,000 are considered the aggregate of the adults of both sexes. It is said that the time the Israelites remained in Egypt was 430 years (Ex. xii. 40.). The number who were located in Egypt was seventy (Gen. xlvi. 27.). I wish to ascertain from some competent statistician what, under the most favourable circumstances, would be the increase of seventy people in 430 years? I am aware that Professor Lee, in his invaluable translation of the Book of Job, is of opinion that 215 years is the time the Israelites actually remained in Egypt; and the remainder must be considered the previous time they were in Canaan. If the Professor's calculation be adopted, the statistician could easily show the difference at 215 and 430 years.
ÆGROTUS.
—In Bishop Burnet's "Hist. of the Reform.," vol. ii. of first folio edition, London, 1679,Coll. of Records, b. ii. p. 100. No. XL. is "An instrument of the speech of the Archbishop of Canterbury (Chicheley) made to the House of Commons about it," scilicet, Statute of Provisors. It begins as follows:—
"Die Veneris, penultimo mensis Januarii,A.D.secundum cursum et computationem Ecclesiæ Anglicanæmillesimo quadringentesimodecimo septimo, indictione sexta, pontificatus.... Martini Papæ quinti anno undecimo."
Now as Martin V. was chosen Pope by the Council of Constance, November 11, 1417, his eleventh year would extend over January, 1428, and the sixth indiction answers to the same year, which would, however, be styled 1427 in ecclesiastical documents till March 25. Can the Computatio Eccles. Anglic. mean anything more than a reference to the distinction between the ecclesiastical and historical times of commencing the year? If it does not, decimo septimo must be an error for vicesimo septimo, made in transferring the numeral letters into words. Has this error been corrected in subsequent editions of Burnet?
H.W.
—Will any of your correspondents, acquainted with the history of the French islands, inform me why was the island of Martinique so called? English writers style the islandMartinico, but none have gone so far as to give the derivation or meaning of the word.
W.J.C.
St. Lucia.
—Will some of your intelligent readers deign to enlighten a merely physical ignoramus as to the precise meaning (always supposing therebea meaning) of the oft-recurring words "objective" and "subjective" ("omjective" and "sumjective," according to Mr. Carlyle) in the Highgate "talk", supposed by sundry transcendental sages of our day to be the expression of an almost inspired wisdom.Isthis exoteric jargontranslateableinto intelligible English? or is it not (as Chalmers called it, speakingScottice) "all buff?" Most assuredly he who really understands it (notaffectsto understand it) need not, as Southey used to say, be afraid of cracking peach-stones.
X.
—The master of a ship of war has the charge of navigating her from port to port, under the direction of the captain; and he is moreover charged to make what improvements he can in the charts. Now the masters were sometimes rather slack in the latter department, in which case they procured certificates from their captains to the Navy Board, stating that they had seen nothing but what was already in the general "Quarter Waggoner."
Can any of your correspondents describe this Quarter Waggoner? And, as the master keeps the officiallog-book, can you kindly tell me how that recondite volume came to be so designated?
W. H. SMYTH.
—Can any of your antiquarian readers favour me with the armorial ensigns of Sir Roger Wilcock, knight, whose daughter and heiress, Agnes, was wife to Sir Richard Turberville, of Coyty Castle, in Glamorganshire, and by him mother of two sons, Sir Payn, afterwards Lord of Coyty, and Wilcock Turberville, who by his wife Maud, heiress of Tythegstone, in the same county, was ancestor of the Turbervilles of that place, and of Penlline Castle.
The lineage of this ancient and knightly family of Turberville is not given correctly in Burke'sDictionary of the Landed Gentryfor the year 1847. The marriage of Christopher Turberville of Penlline (sheriff for Glamorgan in 1549 and 1568) with Agnes Gwyn,[5]heiress of Ryderwen in the county of Caermarthen, and widow of Henry Vaughan, Esq., is altogether omitted in Burke, and for the correctness of which see Lewis Dwnn'sHeraldic Visitation into Wales and its Marches, vol. ii. (near the commencement) title "Ryderwen;" and in vol. i. of the same work, p. 140., title "Ystradcorwg," Catherine, the issue of that marriage, and one of the daughters and coheiresses of Christopher Turberville, is mentioned as the wife of David Lloyd of that place, in the parish of Llanllawddog, co. Caermarthen, sheriff in 1590 and 1601. In further corroboration of this, we find that the Lloyds of Glanguelly and Ystradcorwg, descendants of the said marriage, ever afterwards quartered the arms of Turberville, viz. "chequy or and gu. a fesse ermine," with their own paternal shield. It is not improbable that the marriage of Christopher Turberville with the aforementioned Agnes,kinswoman of the Rices, may have had some influence in allaying the deadly animosity which had previously existed between the rival houses of Dynevor and Penlline.
[5]According to Lewis Dwnn, this Agnes Gwyn was daughter and coheiress (by Margaret his wife, daughter of Sir Rhys ab Thomas, K.G.) of Henry ab John of Ryderwen, son and heir (by Mabli, or Eva, his wife, daughter and coheiress of Henry ab Guilym, of Curt Henri and Llanlais, in the vale of Llangathen, Caermarthenshire) of John ab Henry (otherwise Penry), kinsman to the aforesaid Sir Rhys ab Thomas, and a branch of the Penrys of Llanelli, derived from a common origin with the ancient and noble house of Dynevor.
Again, in vol. iv. of Burke'sHistory of the Commonersfor the year 1838, Jenkyn Turberville of Tythegstone, fourth in descent from Wilcock Turberville, is stated to have wedded Florence, daughter of Watkyn ab Rasser Vaughan, and to have had issue by her two sons, Richard,[6]who continued the line at Tythegstone, and Jenkyn, father of the said Christopher, of Penlline Castle, Glamorgan. By reference to Lewis Dwnn's work, edited by the late talented and much lamented antiquary, Sir Samuel Rush Meyrick, article "Vaughan of Bretwardine, co. Hereford, and Pembrey Court, Caermarthenshire," we find that Jenkyn Turberville married Denis, daughter of Watkyn ab Sir Roger Vaughan, knight, with the following remark in Welsh: "Ag ni bu dim plant o Derbil iddi ag wedi guraig Morgan ab Jenkyn gur Tre Dineg;" that is to say, "She had no children by Turberville, and she afterwards became the wife of Morgan ab Jenkyn,"—I presume, of Tredegar, in Monmouthshire. Is it not, therefore, likely that he married twice; that his first wife was Cecil Herbert, and the mother of his two sons?
[6]This gentleman had an ode addressed to him by the celebrated Welsh bard, Lewis of Glyn Cothi.—Vide Burke's work.
A correct lineage of the Turbervilles, with the ensigns they were entitled to quarter, down to Christopher Turberville's co-heiress Catherine, the wife of David Lloyd, would greatly oblige.
W. G. T. T.
Caermarthen.
—At what time did the fashion of wearing ruffles come in? and when did it go out?
Many persons living at the present time remember their being generally worn in respectable, and occasionally in what may be called minor life.
The clergy did not wear them.
So general was their use in the early part of the reign of George III., that the Rev. William Cole, of Milton, in the account of his Journey to France, in 1765, says he was taken for an English clergyman because he did not wear them, and in consequence addressed "M. l'Abbé."
—I should feel exceedingly obliged by information respecting the birth-place and early history of Dr. John Ash, formerly an eminent physician practising in Birmingham, and the founder of the General Hospital in that town. He was a graduate of Trinity College, Oxford; his doctor's degree was taken in 1764. He died at Brompton, Knightsbridge, in 1798. Every available source has been searched in vain for information on this subject. It is required for literary purposes.
F. RUSSELL.
—Upon the books at Stationers' Hall, Lib. C., under the year 1597, 20th April, Thomas Creed enteredA Treatise of the Mutabilitie of Fraunce from the yeare of ourLorde 1460 untill the yeare of our Lorde 1595. Can any of your readers say in what library a copy of this treatise can be found?
INDAGATOR.
[A copy is in the Bodleian library. The full title is, "The Mutable and Wavering Estate of France, from 1460 to 1595; together with an Account of the Great Battles of the French Nation both at Home and Abroad. 4to. Lond. Tho. Creede, 1597."]
—A copy of the Latin Bible of Junius and Tremellius, now in my possession, has on the title:
"Sancti Gervasii, 1607."Sumptibus Caldorianæ Societatis."
"Sancti Gervasii, 1607.
"Sumptibus Caldorianæ Societatis."
Will you kindly inform me who constituted this body, and why they were so called?
QUIDAM.
[Cotton, in hisTypographical Gazetteer, has given the following notices of this body:—
"Caldoriana Societas, qu. at Basle or Geneva? An edition of Calepine'sLexicon, fol. 1609, bears for imprintSumptibus Caldorianæ Societatis." "An edition of the controversies between Pope Paul V. and the Venetians, bears for imprint, 'In Villa Sanvincentiana apud Paulum Marcellum, sumptibus Caldorianæ Societatis, anno 1607,' but is by no means of Spanish workmanship. I rather judge that the whole of the tracts connected with this business, which profess to have been printed at various places, as Augsburg, Saumur, Rome, Venice, &c., have their origin in the Low Countries, and proceeded from the presses of Antwerp, Rotterdam, or the Hague."]
—The millers of the county of Meath, in Ireland, keep St. Martin's day as a holiday. Why?
Ω.
[Because of the honour paid to St. Martin in the Western Church, whose festival had an octave. Formerly it was denominated Martinalia, and was held with as much festivity as the Vinalia of the Romans. Among old ecclesiastical writers, it usually obtained the title of the Second Bacchanal:
"Altera Martinus dein Bacchanalia præbet;Quem colit anseribus populus multoque Lyæo."Thomas Naogeorgus,De Regno Pont.
"Altera Martinus dein Bacchanalia præbet;
Quem colit anseribus populus multoque Lyæo."
Thomas Naogeorgus,De Regno Pont.
Thus translated by Barnabie Googe:
"To belly cheare yet once again doth Martin more encline,Whom all the people worshippeth with rosted geese and wine."]
"To belly cheare yet once again doth Martin more encline,
Whom all the people worshippeth with rosted geese and wine."]
—What is the origin of kissing under the mistletoe?
ANM.D.
[Why Roger claims the privilege to kiss Margery under the mistletoe at Christmas, appears to have baffled our antiquaries. Brand states, that this druidic plant never entered our sacred edifices but by mistake, and consequently assigns it a place in the kitchen, where, says he, "it was hung up in great state, with its white berries; and whatever female chanced to stand under it, the young man present either had a right, or claimed one, of saluting her, and of plucking off a berry at each kiss." Nares, however, makes it rather ominous for the fair sex not to be saluted under the famedViscum album. He says, "The custom longest preserved was the handing up of a bush of mistletoe in the kitchen, or servants' hall, with the charm attached to it, that the maid who was not kissed under it at Christmas, would not be married in that year."]
—Was Trinity Chapel, Knightsbridge, which has been rebuilt several times, ever parochial? Can I be referred to any memoir of the Rev. —— Gamble, Chaplain to H. R. H. the Duke of York, who in the early part of the present century was minister of it?
H. G. D.
[The chapel, dedicated to the Holy Trinity, belonged originally to an ancient hospital, or lazar-house, under the patronage of the abbot and convent of Westminster. It was rebuilt in 1629, at the cost of the inhabitants, by a license from Dr. Laud, then Bishop of London, as a chapel of ease to St. Martin's-in-the-Fields, within the precincts of which parish it was situated; but the site was subsequently assigned to the parish of St. George, Hanover Square, and at present forms a part of that of Kensington. The Rev. J. Gamble was minister of this chapel in 1794-5; in 1796 he was appointed chaplain of the forces, and in 1799 rector of Alphamstone, and also of Bradwell-juxta-Mare, in Essex. In 1805 he was married to Miss Lathom of Madras, by whom he had a son. His death took place at Knightsbridge, July 27, 1811.]
—Whence have we this veryfreetranslation of Deo Volente?
PORCUS.
[This colloquial phrase is generally supposed to be a corruption of "Please thePyx," a vessel in which the Host is kept. By an easy metonymy, the vessel is substituted for the Host itself, in the same manner as when we speak, in parliamentary language, of "the sense of theHouse,"—we refer not to the bricks and stones, but to the opinion of its honourable members.]
—Can any of your readers throw any light on the term "barnacles," which is constantly used for "spectacles"? I need not say that the word in the singular number is the name of a shell-fish.
PISCATOR.
[Phillips, in hisWorld of Words, tells us that "among farriers,barnacles,horse-twitchers, orbrakes, are tools put on the nostrils of horses when they will not stand still to be shoed," &c.; and the figure of the barnacle borne in heraldry (not barnacle goose, which is a distinct bearing), as engraved in Parker'sGlossary of Heraldry, sufficiently shows why the term has been transferred to spectacles, which it must be remembered were formerly only kept on by the manner in which they clipped the nose.]
—As an enthusiastic lover of curling, I have been trying for some time past to discover any traces of the origin of the game, and the earliest mention made of it: but, I am sorry to say, without success.
I should therefore feel much obliged to any ofyour correspondents who could inform me concerning the origin of this game, and also any works which may treat of it.
"JOHNFROST."
Paisley.
[Appended to Dr. Brewster's account of curling, quoted in theEncyclopædia Metropolitana, vol. xvii. p. 469., occurs the following historical notice of this winter amusement:—"Curling is a comparatively modern amusement in Scotland, and does not appear to have been introduced till the beginning of the sixteenth century, when it probably was brought over by the emigrant Flemings. It was originally known under the name ofkuting, which perhaps is a corruption of the Teutonickleuyten,kalluyten, rendered by Kilian in hisDictionary,ludere massis sive globulis glaciatis, certare discis in æquore glaciatâ. In Canada it has become a favourite amusement, on account of the great length of the winters."]
Your correspondentΣasks for information about St. Irene or St. Erini, from whom he thinks the Island of Santorin in the Grecian Archipelago acquired its name; and in reply, you have referred him to Smith'sDictionary of Greek and Roman Biography, for particulars of the canonized Empress Irene.
ButΣis, I suspect, mistaken in supposing Santorin to be indebted either to saint or empress for its present appellation; although he errs in company with Tournefort and a succession of later geographical etymologists, who in this instance have trusted too much to theirearas an authority. Another correspondent in the same number, F. W. S. (p. 470.), has directed attention to a peculiarity in the formation of the modern names of places in Greece, the theory of which will guideΣto the real derivation of the word Santorin. F. W. S. states truly that many of the recent names have been constructed by prefixing the prepositionεἰςto the ancient one; thus ATHENS,εἰς τὰς Ἀθήνας, becameSatines, and COS,εἰς τὴν Κῶν,Stanco. Lord Byron has explained this origin of the alteration in one of the notes toChilde Harold, I think; but I apprehend that the barbarism is to be charged less upon the modern Greeks themselves, than upon the European races, Sclavonians, Normans, and Venetians, and later still the Turks, who seized upon their country on the dismemberment of the Lower Empire. The Greeks themselves no doubt continued to spell their proper names correctly; but their invaders, ignorant of their orthography, and even of their letters, were forced to write the names of places in characters of their own, and guided solely by the sound.Negropont, the modern name of Eubœa, is a notable instance of this. In the desolation which followed the Roman conquest, Eubœa, as described by Pausanias and Dion, had become almost deserted, and, on its partial revival under the Eastern Empire, the old name of Eubœa was abandoned, and the whole island took the name of Euripus, from a new town built on the shore of that remarkable strait. This, pronounced by the Greeks, Evripos, the Venetians, on their arrival in the thirteenth century, first changed into Egripo andNegripo, and next into Negro-ponte, after they had built a bridge across the Euripus. This last name, the island retains to the present time. Another familiar example is the modern name of Byzantium,Stamboul, by which both Greeks and Turks now speak of Constantinople. The Romans called their capital par excellence "the city" (in which, by the way, we ourselves imitate them when speaking of London). Among the ancient Jews, in like manner, to "go to the city,"ὑπάγετε εἰς τὴν πόλιν, meant to go to Jerusalem (Matt., xxvi. 18., xxviii. 11.; Mark, xiv. 13.; Luke, xxii. 10.; John, iv. 18.; Acts, ix. 16.). The Greeks of the Lower Empire followed the example in speaking of Constantinople; and the Turks, on their conquest in the fifteenth century, adopting the provincialism, wroteεἰς τὴν πόλιν,Istampoli, and thence followed Istambol and Stamboul. The same theory will explain the modern word Santorin, about which your correspondentΣrequests information. The ancient name wasThera, and by this the island is described both by Herodotus and Strabo, and later still by Pliny.Thera, submitted to the usual process, became, fromεἰς τὴν Θήραν,Stantheran,Santeran, and finallySantorin. In the latter form it almost invited a saintly pedigree, and accordingly "Richard," a Jesuit, whose work I have seen, but cannot now consult, wrote, about two centuries ago, hisRelation de l'Isle de St. Erini, in which, for the glory of the Church, he explains that the island obtained its name, not from the Empress Irene, but from a Saint Erine, whom he describes as the daughter of a Macedonian prefect, and from whom he says it was calledΝῆσος τῆς Ἁγίας Εἰρήνης. I incline, however, to etymology rather than hagiology for the real derivation.
J. EMERSONTENNENT.
My "NOTES ANDQUERIES" coming to me monthly, I am as yet in ignorance whether any of your numerous correspondents have answered my inquiry (Vol. iv., p. 306.): "Whether the portraits of 'the old Countess of Desmond,' at Knowle, Bedgebury, or Penshurst, correspond with mydescription of that in the possession of the Knight of Kerry?" I have since met a painter of eminence, who assures me that Horace Walpole's criticism is correct, and that the portraits commonly known as those of the Countess are really the likeness of "Rembrandt's mother." If they be identified with that I have described, the idea that we possess a "counterfeit presentment" of this ancient lady, must, I fear, be given up as a delusion.
But the lady herself remains a "great fact," and a physiological curiosity; and there is yet a subject for inquiry respecting her. We may identify her on the herald's tree, if not on the painter's board or canvas.Who was she?In attempting to discuss this question, I must not take a merit which does not belong to me in any thing. I may say I am but following out the original research of an accurate and accomplished antiquary, Mr. Samthell of Cork, of whose curiousOlla Podrida(privately printed) I possess, by his favour, a copy, which contains a paper on this subject originally read before "The Cork Cuvierian Society." This paper, together with some MSS. notes of Sir William Betham, Ulster king-at-arms, furnish my text-book; and I have little more to do than correct some mistakes, which appear to me so obvious, that I think they must arise from slips of the pen, orslopsof that most teasing confounder of dates and figures,the printer,—who can so often, by merely dipping into a wrong cell of type, set us wrong by a century or two in a calculation.
All authorities are agreed in fixing on "Margret O'Bryen, wife of James, 9th Earl of Desmond," as the long-lived individual in question. Sir Walter Raleigh, by calling her "The old Countess of Desmond, ofInchiquin," determines the fact of her being of the O'Bryen race,—Inchiquin being the feudal territory of the O'Bryens. There was more than one intermarriage between the Desmond earls and the O'Bryen family; but none of them include all the conditions for identifying the "old Countess," except that I have specified.
We now come todates: and here it is that I have the presumption to question the conclusions of the two eminent antiquaries on whose researches I am remarking.
"James Fitzgerald, ninth Earl of Desmond, was murdered by John Montagh Fitzgerald, of Clenglish,A.D.1467, ætat 29," says one of my authorities. "The old Countess bore the title only for a few months, for she became dowager on the murder of her husband in 1467 (not1487)," adds my second authority. These are formidabledicta, coming from such sources; and if I venture to question them, it is only under pressure of such circumstances and authorities, as at least demand a hearing.
I think both these gentlemen confound themurderof James, the ninth Earl of Desmond, with theexecutionof his father, Thomas, the eighth Earl, who, according to all annals and authorities, was beheaded at Drogheda in the year 1467. Of this fact there can be no question. Ware gives it in hisAnnals, stating that "John Tiptoft, Earl of Worcester, called a parliament at Drogheda, and passed a certain enactment, in virtue of which "the great Earl of Desmond was beheaded, 15th of February, 1467." We find the very act itself (in theCotton MSS. Titus, B. xi. 373.) headed and running as follows:—"VII. Edw. Quarti" (1467). "Pur diverses causes, horribles treisons et felonies prepensez, et faitez perThomasCount de Desmond, et Thomas Count de Kildar," &c. &c.
We now proceed withWareto the date 1487, and he writes thus:—"On the 7th of December, James Fitz-Thomas, a Geraldine, and Earl of Desmond, who, for almost twenty-eight(?) years flourished in wealth and power, was suddenly and cruelly murdered by his servants in his house at Rathkeale in the county of Limerick." "This James dying without issue, at least issue male, his brother Morrish succeeded him; by whom,John Mantagh, the chief contriver of that murder, was soon after taken and slain." Here is a distinct statement from an annalist which may be contradicted by facts, but cannot be misunderstood as to meaning.
The more I look at Mr. Samthell's account, the more I am disposed to consider the date he gives as a slip of the pen, or the result of that kind of confusion into which the most accurate mind will sometimes fall, fromtoo longandintenseconsideration of the same point. I say this, because his own statements furnish at every step matter to confute his own conclusions: thus, he says, "Supposing the old Countess to have beeneighteenat her husband's death (and the Irish marry young), she would have been 140 years old in 1589." This calculation plainlyassumesthe death to have taken place in 1467; but in a passage further on he says, "It will be remembered, that Thomas,eighthEarl of Desmond,father to Margret O'Bryen's husband, was Lord Deputy of Ireland for the Duke Clarence, brother to Edw. IV., from 1462 to 1467!" And again, giving some brief notices of the earls from "A Pedigree of Sir William Betham's," he sets down, "8th earl, Thomas, beheadedA.D.1467; 9th earl, James (son of Thomas), murderedA.D.1467;"—overlooking the fact, which would have been in itselfmemorable, that he makes the beheading of the father, and the murder of the son, to have taken place in the same year! Although I cannot ascertain whence Mr. Pelham took the dates which he has given in his print, I have no hesitation in adopting them, as agreeing best with all the probable circumstances of the case; he places Margret O'Bryen's birth in 1464, her deathsomewherefrom 1620 to 1626; this would sufficiently tally with theopinion, that she was left a young widow at her husband's death in 1487, and agree with Sir Walter Raleigh's statement, that she "was living in 1589," and "many years afterwards." Lord Bacon's express words are, "Certainly they report that within these few yearsthe Countess of Desmond lived to an hundred and forty years of age." These words occur in hisHistory of Life and Death, published in 1623, and add to the probability that the old lady was either lately dead, or that possibly, in the little intercourse between London and remote parts of the empire at that period, she might beeven thenalive, without his knowledge.
I submit these speculations to correction; and in venturing to dispute the conclusions of the authorities I have named, I feel myself somewhat in the position of a dwarf, who, climbing on the shoulder of a giant, should assume the airs of a tall man; but for the encouragement and assistance of the gentlemen I have named, I should probably never have known how even to state a genealogical or antiquarian question. I shall conclude by committing myself to your printer's mercy, trusting that he will be too magnanimous to take notice of my remarks on the "slip-slop" printing of figures, which will sometimes occur in the best offices; if he should misprint my figures, all my facts will fall to the ground.
A. B. R.
Belmont.
In the Birch Collections at the British Museum there is a transcript of a Table-Book of Robert Sydney, second Earl of Leicester, made by Birch (Add. MSS. 4161.), the following extract from which, P. C. S. S. believes will not be unacceptable to the readers of "NOTES ANDQUERIES:"
"The olde Countess of Desmond was a marryed woman in Edward IV.'s time, of England, and lived till towards the end of Queen Elizabeth, soe as she needes must be 140 yeares old: shee had a newe sett of teeth not long before her death, and might have lived much longer, had shee not mett with a kind of violent death; for she must needes climb a nutt-tree to gather nutts, soe falling downe, shee hurt her thigh, which brought a fever, and that fever brought death. This my cosen Walter Fitzwilliam told me. This olde lady, Mr. Harnet told me, came to petition the Queen, and landing at Bristol, shee came on foote to London, being then soe olde that her doughter was decrepit, and not able to come with her, but was brought in a little cart, their poverty not allowing them better provision of meanes. As I remember, Sir Walter Rowleigh, in some part of hisHistory, speakes of her, and says that he saw her in England, anno 1589. Her death was as strange and remarkable as her long life was,—having seene the deaths of so many descended from her; and both her own and her husband's house ruined in the rebellion and wars."
P. C. S. S.
In my communication to you in August, 1850, and inserted as above, I stated that I was uncertain whether the collar of SS. was worn by the Chief Baron of the Exchequer previously to the reign of George I., as I had no portrait of that functionary of an earlier date.
I have since found, and I ought to have sent you the fact before, that the Chief Baron, as well as the two Chief Justices, was decorated with this collar in the reign of Queen Elizabeth. In the church of St. Stephen's, near Canterbury, is the monument of Sir Roger Manwood, who died Lord Chief Baron on December 14, 1592, on which his bust appears in full judicial robes (colored proper), over which he wears the collar in its modern form.
EDWARDFOSS.
Was the collar of SS. worn by persons under a vow to make a pilgrimage to the Holy Land, or to join a crusade, the S. being the initial letter of Sépulcre, or SS. for Saint Sépulcre? The appearance of the above-mentioned collar on the effigy of a person in the habit of a pilgrim in the church of Ashby-de-la-Zouch (see "NOTES ANDQUERIES," Vol. iv., p. 345.), so strongly confirms the idea, that I beg leave to offer it to the consideration of any readers of the "NOTES ANDQUERIES" who may be interested in the question.
E. J. M.
—Noble mentions two engravings of this gentleman in theContinuation to Granger, vol. ii. p. 387., from a portrait by J. Wootton; the oldest, by J. Faber, describes him as "Royal Studkeeper at Newmarket;" the other, dated 1791, by J. Jones, styles him "the Father of the Turf;" and his death in 1728, æt. eighty-six, is recorded on a monument in the parish church of All Saints, Newmarket, as well as the circumstance of his having been keeper of the running horses to King William III. and his three royal successors.
Frampton, according to Noble, who quotes from some other author, was a thorough good groom only, yet would have made a good minister of state had he been trained to it, and no one in his day was so well acquainted with the pedigrees of race-horses. I am not aware of there being any reference to Tregonwell Frampton in theRambler, but he has frequently been denounced as the author of an unparalleled act of barbarity to a race-horse, which is detailed in theAdventurer, No. 37., as delicately as such a subject would permit. In justice to the accused I must say, that I always considered the story as physically impossible; and had this not been the case, it cannot be creditedthat the author of so great an enormity could have been continued in the service of the Crown. Still the essayist, who wrote nearly a century ago, thus closes his recital:—
"When I had heard this horrid narrative,which indeed I remembered to be true, I turned about in honest confusion, and blushed that I was a man."
I hope some of your correspondents may be able to clear Frampton from the dreadful imputation.
B.
—This collection (of 187 volumes) is better known by the name of theYelverton MSS., from having belonged to Sir Christopher Yelverton, Bart., who died in 1654, and whose son Henry (by Susan, Baroness Grey of Ruthin) was created Viscount Longueville in 1690. From him (who died in 1704) these MSS. descended to his grandson, Henry, third Earl of Sussex, who deceased in 1799 without male issue. In April, 1781, this collection of MSS. (then stated to consist of 179 volumes, and eight wanting to complete the series) was offered for purchase to the trustees of the British Museum for 3000 guineas, and declined. The loss of these eight volumes is accounted for by a note of Gough (written in 1788), in Nichols'Literary Anecdotes, vol. iii. p. 622., by which it appears, that in 1784 the collection was submitted to sale by public auction; but "after the sale of a few lots, the sale was stopped." Gough adds, "They were all given by Lord Sussex to Lord Calthorpe, whose mother was of that family [Barbara, eldest daughter of Henry, Viscount Longueville], and at his death had not been opened, nor perhaps since." These MSS. are now, I believe, in the possession of the present Lord Calthorpe.
F. MADDEN.
—The miniature of Oliver Cromwell, inquired for by LORDBRAYBROOKE, I think was shown to me at a party in London, about five or six years since, by Mr. Macgregor, M.P.,—at least I suppose it to be the same, though I had forgotten the name of the painter; but Mr. Macgregor prized it very highly, as being the only original miniature of Cromwell, and I think he said it was the one that had belonged to Sir Joshua Reynolds. This slight recollection of having seen it, is almost too vague to be worth alluding to, but as no one appears to have replied to the inquiry, it may lead to connecting the true history to the miniature, and thereby enhance its value.
R.N.
—Your readers will probably be tired of the subject, still MR. BREENmay like to know that the resembling passages in the two copies in question, are quoted with the names of the authors in the sixty-third number ofThe Adventurer, datedJune 12, 1753, and Pope is directly accused ofhaving copied from one of the vilest Pindaric writers, in the time of Charles II.
The same paper, and a subsequent one, No. 95., contain some excellent remarks upon the allegation of resemblance between authors, and the charge of plagiarism so frequently raised upon it, but not always to be allowed with equal readiness.
In conclusion, let me express a wish, that the essays which I have pointed out could be perused by some of your correspondents, because I am convinced that we should in future have fewer discussions on parallel passages, which seldom possess much real interest, and frequently have a tendency to injure the fair fame of our most gifted writers, by calling in question their literary honesty without establishing the charge brought against them.
B.
—Your correspondent J. R. is quite correct as to the name "Voltaire" being an anagram of "Arouet L. J." The fact, however, was first made public by M. Lepan in theDétails Préliminaires sur les Biographies de Voltaire, prefixed to hisVie Politique, Littéraire et Morale de Voltaire, many years before the communications to theGentleman's Magazineand theDublin Review, referred to by your correspondent.
Your correspondent states that "Voltairewas a little partialto his paternal name,"[7]and oddly enough gives two extracts from his letters to L'Abbé Moussinot, which prove the very contrary. Those extracts arealsoto be found in M. Lepan's work, who has adduced them to show "sonméprispour son nom de famille."Vie de Voltaire, p. 11. edit. 1817.
JAMESCORNISH.
[7]This was a misprint for "so little partial."—ED.
—Your correspondent A STUDENTwill findninepoems by Tudur Aled, including the famous description of the Horse, in a 4to. collection of ancient Kymric poetry, published at Amwythig, in 1773, by Rhys Jones. It is entitledGorchestion Beirdd Cymrit. Should A STUDENTwish to extend his acquaintance with this old bard, he will find other poems of his among the Welsh MSS. in the British Museum, in vols. 14,866.et seq.
T. S.
—The verse "Eripuit cœlo," &c., seems to be a parody of the following lines of Manilius (Astronom.I. 105.):—