"Haud cum Jesu itis qui itis cum Jesuitis?"
"Haud cum Jesu itis qui itis cum Jesuitis?"
A similar play on words was made a few years ago by an Italian professor in the university of Pisa. A large number of Jesuits made their appearance one day in his lecture room, as they believed that he was about to assail some favourite dogma of theirs. He commenced his lecture with the following words—
"Quanti Gesuiti sono all' inferno!"
"Quanti Gesuiti sono all' inferno!"
When remonstrated with, he said that his words were
"Quanti—Gesu!—iti sono all' inferno!"
"Quanti—Gesu!—iti sono all' inferno!"
L. H. J. T.
—Can any of your correspondents inform me the origin of the line "The right divine of kings to govern wrong?" It is in theDunciad, book iv., placed in inverted commas. Is it there used as a quotation? and, if so, whence is it taken, or was Pope the original author of the lines?
SARPEDON.
[Our correspondent is clearly not aware that this line has already been the subject of much discussion in our columns. (See Vol. iii., p. 494.; Vol. iv., pp. 125. 160.) But as the Query has not yet been solved, and many curious points may depend upon its solution, we avail ourselves of SARPEDON'Sinquiry to bring the matter again under the consideration of our readers.]
—The quantity and variety of Valentines which now occupy our stationers' windows suggest the Query as to their first introduction; whether originally so ornamental, and if by hand; when they first became printed, and what early specimens exist?
EXON.
—In Shakspeare's comedy ofTwelfth Night, the following words are used by Sir Toby, Act III. Sc. 2.:
"... Although the sheet were big enough for the Bed of Ware in England."
"... Although the sheet were big enough for the Bed of Ware in England."
Query: What is the history of Bed of Ware?
†
[Nares, in hisGlossary, says, "This curious piece of furniture is said to be still in being, and visible at the Crown or at the Bull in Ware. It is reported to be twelve feet square, and to be capable of holding twenty or twenty-four persons." And he refers to Chauncy'sHertfordshirefor an account of its receiving at once twelve men and their wives, who lay at top and bottom in this mode of arrangement; first two men, then two women, and so on alternately; so that no man was near to any woman but his wife.]
—When did the termMerry Andrewfirst come into use, and what was the occasion of it?
χ. β.
[Although Strutt, in hisSports and Pastimes, has several allusions to Merry Andrews, he does not attempt to explain the origin of the term. Hearne, in hisBenedictus Abbas(tom. i. Præf. p. 50. ed. Oxon. 1735, as quoted by Warton in hisEnglish Poetry, vol. iii. p. 74. ed. 1840), speaking of the well-known Andrew Borde, gives it as his opinion that this facetious physician gave rise to the name of MERRYANDREW, the fool on the mountebank's stage: "'Twas from the Doctor's method of using such speeches at markets and fairs, that in aftertimes those that imitated the like humorous, jocose language, were styled MERRYANDREWS, a term much in vogue on our stages."]
—In reading a curious old book, entitled theStatesmen and Favourites of England since the Reformation, which was written by David Lloyd, and published in 1665, I was at a loss to know what abaron's hearsemight be, and hope therefore that some of your readers may be able to give me some information respecting it. It occurs at page 448., in his observations on the life of Sir Henry Umpton, who, he says, "had allowed him abaron's hearse, because he died ambassadour leiger."
JOHNBRANFILLHARRISON.
Maidstone.
[Although a "baron's hearse" is not particularly specified in the very curiousNote upon Funeralsprefixed by Mr. J. G. Nichols to theDiary of Henry Machyn, edited by him for theCamden Society,—we refer our correspondent to it, as furnishing much curious illustration of thetime and expense formerly bestowed upon these ceremonials. The word "herse," it may be remarked, was not then applied in its modern sense, but to a frame of timber "covered with black, and armes upon the black, ready to receive the corpse when it had arrived within the church," which corresponds to what our French neighbours designate theCatafalque.]
—Can you favour me with a reference to any works in which any further account is given of this saint, than is contained in the four passages of the New Testament in which his name is mentioned?
What representations are there of him in picture, tapestry, or window, in England or on the continent?
REGEDONUM.
[For further particulars we would refer our correspondent to Mrs. Jameson'sSacred and Legendary Art(1st edit.), vol. i. pp. 222. et seq.; and Parker'sCalendar of the Anglican Church illustrated, p. 100.]
—Are the following lines from Walsh'sAristophanesoriginal; and was the translation ever completed? I quote from memory.
"Audi mæstum, Eliza, questum,Nuntium audi horridum;It devota domus tota,Barathrum orci torridum."SimkinFraterdesperatur,Ludit, salit, turpiter;Ridet Jana sacra fana;TabithaRuntdeperditur."Ego, ut ovis, errans quovisScomma nuper omnium,Ter beata, quæ vocataManè sum per somnium;"Nam procero par RogeroSpectrum venit cœlitus:Dicens, Ego amore impleboTe divino penitus."
"Audi mæstum, Eliza, questum,Nuntium audi horridum;It devota domus tota,Barathrum orci torridum.
"Audi mæstum, Eliza, questum,
Nuntium audi horridum;
It devota domus tota,
Barathrum orci torridum.
"SimkinFraterdesperatur,Ludit, salit, turpiter;Ridet Jana sacra fana;TabithaRuntdeperditur.
"SimkinFraterdesperatur,
Ludit, salit, turpiter;
Ridet Jana sacra fana;
TabithaRuntdeperditur.
"Ego, ut ovis, errans quovisScomma nuper omnium,Ter beata, quæ vocataManè sum per somnium;
"Ego, ut ovis, errans quovis
Scomma nuper omnium,
Ter beata, quæ vocata
Manè sum per somnium;
"Nam procero par RogeroSpectrum venit cœlitus:Dicens, Ego amore impleboTe divino penitus."
"Nam procero par Rogero
Spectrum venit cœlitus:
Dicens, Ego amore implebo
Te divino penitus."
J. H. L.
[These lines are by Christopher Anstey, Esq., and will be found in hisNew Bath Guide, letter xiv., where "Miss Prudence B-n-r-d informs Lady Betty that she has been elected to Methodism by a Vision." This metrical epistle consists of five more verses, to which the author has subjoined a Latin translation. See Anstey'sWorks, p. 82. 4to. 1808. Only Vol. I. of Walsh's translation ofThe Comedies of Aristophaneshas been published.]
—Mr. Rogers, in his beautiful poem ofItaly, has a story which is headed "Ginevra," and which he lays the scene of at Modena. It narrates that a young bride on the day of her wedding, to entertain her young friends, proposes that they should amuse themselves at "hide-and-seek;" and thinking to conceal herself where her companions could not discover her, bethought herself of an old oaken chest in the garret of the house. The lid of this chest unfortunately had a clasp lock, which occasioned her to be completely enshrined; and not being discovered at the time, she must have perished miserably. Many years after, upon pulling the house down the chest was forced open, and the skeleton of the unfortunate lady was, to the consternation of all present, brought to light.
Mr. Rogers, in a note, says, "I believe this story to be founded on fact, though I cannot tell when and where it happened;" and adds, "many old housesin this countrylay claim to it."
I should be much obliged to any reader of the "N. & Q." to point out any old seat in England where the above is stated to have happened; if there be any memorial or legend concerning it, or any particulars relating to it.
☞F.
P.S. I have, some years ago, read the counterpart of this story inFrench, when the bride proposesjouer au cache-cache, with exactly the same melancholy result, but I have not any recollection in what work.
[Two versions of the dramatic narrative of "Ginevra, the Lady buried alive," are given by Collet in hisRelics of Literature, p. 186., in neither of which is there any notice of the hide-and-seek game, or of the chest with the clasp-lock. The French account is extracted from theCauses Célèbres; and the Italian, which differs in some particulars, from a work by Dominico Maria Manni.]
—Can any of your readers inform me where the entire translation of this play, from the French of Corneille into English, is to be found?—the first act only, which was translated by Waller, being found in some editions of his works. Also, whether I am right in supposing that this play contains a scene where the dead body of Pompey is discovered on the seashore, and a passage discussing what tomb should be erected to his honour, in deprecation of any monument at all, and ending with: "The eternal substance of his greatness; to that I leave him."
H.
[The title of the play is,Pompey the Great; a Tragedy, as it was acted by the Servants of his Royal Highness the Duke of York. Translated out of French by certain Persons of Honour, 4to. 1664. It consists of five acts. Waller translated the first; the others were translated by the Earl of Dorset, Sir C. Sedley, and Mr. Godolphin. It will be found in the British Museum and the Bodleian.]
MR. FRASER'Serudite researches are well worth the space which they occupy. The conclusions tobe drawn from them appear quite to support my positions:
1.The Three Estates of the Realm are, the Spiritualty, the Nobility, and the Commonalty: on this fact there is no dispute. The last is as certainly thethirdestate (tiers état). But MR. FRASERdemurs to my ranking the Spiritual Estate as thefirst, quoting the Collect in the Service for the fifth of November, which runs, "the Nobility, Clergy, and Commonalty." On this point I am not prepared with a decisive authority; but certainly the language and practice of Parliament is with me. The Lords Spiritual are always namedbeforethe Lords Temporal, and precedence is allotted to them accordingly; the Archbishops rankingabovethe Earls (with the more recent distinctions of Marquess and Duke), and the Bishopsabovethe Temporal Barons [Qy. What was the relative rank of theother"prelates" who were formerly in Parliament?]. To the same effect is the language of the celebrated preamble to the act 24 Henry VIII. c. 12.:—
"This realm of England is an empire ... governed by one supreme head and King ... unto whom a body politic compact of all sorts and degrees of people divided in terms and by names ofSpiritualty and Temporalty, be bounden and owen."
2.The Convocations of the Clergy(which aretwosynods sitting in three houses)are no part of the Parliament. MR.FRASERthinks "this point was settled somewhat late in our history;" but it is proved (I submit) in the very extracts which he produces from ancient statutes. Since there is no doubt that the Clergy satregularlyin Convocation, we should not hear of theiroccasionalpresence in the House of Commons had the Convocation been deemed a part of Parliament. It is certain that Convocation never exercised the powers which belong to a chamber of Parliament; even their own subsidies to the Crown were ratified and passed in Parliament before they becamelegallybinding. [See on the whole of this subject, Burn'sEccl. Law(Phillimore's ed.), tit. "Convocation," vol. ii. pp. 19-23.] MR.FRASERhas certainly adduced instances in which the assent of the Clergy was given toparticularstatutes; he might have added the recital of their submission to the Crown, in the Act of Supremacy, 26 Henry VIII. c. 1. He has shown also that clerical proctors wereoccasionallyintroduced into the House of Commons, like the judges (he says) in the House of Lords. But this is far from making those proctors, or the Convocation which sent them, apartof the Parliament. Indeed it is shown that they werenotby the petition of the Lower House of Convocation (cited by MR. FRASER), in which they desire "to be admitted to sit in Parliamentwith the House of Commons, according to antient usage." It is clear that they who so petitioned did not esteem themselves to be, as a Convocation, already part of the Parliament. The Convocation would indeed have become the Spiritual Estate in Parliament, if the Clergy had acceded to the wise and patriotic design of King Edward I. But they, affecting animperium in imperio, refused to assemble at the King's writ as a portion of the Parliament of their country, and chose to tax themselves apart in their Provincial Synods, where they used the forms of a separate Parliament for the Church.
3. Hencethe Spiritual Estate was, and still is, represented in Parliament by the Spiritual Lords. William the Conqueror having converted their sees into baronies, they were obliged, like other tenantsin capite, to obey the royal summons toParliament. When I called it a mistake to suppose that our Bishops sit in the Upper House only as Barons, I did not mean that they are not so, in the present constitution of Parliament, but that such was not theoriginof the prelates being called to share in the legislation of the realm. The other clergy, however, retained their tenure of frankalmoigne, and stood aloof alike from the councils and from the burdens of the state. Attendance in Parliament being chiefly given for the purpose of votingtaxes, the Commons, as well as the Clergy, looked upon it as a burden more than a privilege. But while the Clergy were quickly compelled to bear their share of the public burdens, their short-sighted policy deprived them of the voice which is now enjoyed by other degrees of Englishmen in the affairs of the country. While Convocation was sitting, the Clergy could make their sentiments known by the Bishops who represented their Estate in Parliament; and we often find the Lower House of Convocation petitioning their lordships to make statements of this kind in their places in Parliament. But in the present suspension of Convocation and the disuse of diocesan synods, the Clergy have lost their weight with the Bishops themselves; and that once formidable Estate of the Realm retains but the shadow of a representation inParliament.
MR. FRASERwill find this account of the matter fully borne out by the extract he has given from Bennet'sNarrative. "The King in full Parliament charged thePrelates, Earls, Barons, and other great men, and the Knights of the shire, and the Commons," to give him counsel. Here we have a description ofParliamentprecisely as it is constituted at this day, and the "Prelates" are the only members of the Spiritualty. Then we read "the Prelatesdeliberated'with the clergy by themselves' (i.e.inConvocation), and the Earls and Barons by themselves, and the Knights and others of the Commons by themselves; and then, 'in full Parliament' (as before), each by themselves, and afterwards all in common answered,"i.e.the Clergy deliberated in Convocation, but answeredin Parliamentby their Prelates.
It is true, as MR. FRASERobserves, that the majority of the Upper House of Parliament binds the Clergy though all the Bishops should be dissentient, as in Queen Elizabeth's Act of Uniformity. This is the result of the Spiritual Estate voting in the same chamber with the Nobility; and to avoid such a result the Commons very early demanded a chamber to themselves. The Spiritualty is thus yet further reduced under the power of the Temporalty; for "the authority of Parliament" (as Elizabeth's Act of Uniformity words it) is and must be supreme, however defective its representative constitution. It were certainly to be wished that those liberal reformers who were so shocked atburgage tenuresand rotten boroughs, would extend their compassion to the disfranchised clergy, some five or six hundred of whom are "represented," without their consent or opinion asked, by a prelate appointed by the Crown.
On the whole, the Convocation is "the true Church of England by representation" (Canon 139) in such matters as belong to theChurchas distinguished from theState; but inParliament, which is the State, the Spiritualty is represented by the Bishops alone.
I am astonished that MR. FRASERshould stumble at my remark, that the Three Estates still assemble in common for the final passing of every act. I had thought that the ceremony of giving the royal assent in full Parliament to bills previously deliberated upon in the two Houses apart, had been sufficiently well known.
CANONEBOR.
P.S.—Since writing the above I have lighted upon the following authorities, confirming the position that the Spiritual Estate is represented in Parliament by the Bishops, and also that it is ranked as the "FirstEstate of the Realm." Can MR.FRASERadduceany authority whateverfor applying that designation to the Clergy in Convocation?
I. InAn Account of the Ceremonies observed at the Coronation of George III.(London, Kearsley, 1791, 4to.), I read that immediately after the enthronement—
"The bishops performed their homage, andthenthe temporal lords, first H. R. H. the Duke of York, and H. R. H. the Duke of Cumberland, each for himself;"—
the Prelates thus taking precedence even of the blood royal. The same fact is distinctly stated in the accounts appended of the coronations of James II., William and Mary (when the Bishops did homage before Prince George); and I presume that this is the regular order in which the Estates of the Realm do homage to the Sovereign upon that most solemn occasion.
II. When the royal assent is given to any act of grace (which emanates from the Crown in the first instance), the form is for the clerk of parliament to acknowledge the royal favour in these words:
III. "Les prélats, seigneurs, et commons, en ce present parliament assemblés au nom de tout vous autre subjects remercient très humblement votre Majesté, et prient à Dieu vous donner en santé bonne vie et longue."
"Strictly speaking, the 'Three Estates of the Realm' consist of, 1st, the Lords Spiritual; 2nd, the Lords Temporal; 3rd, the Commons. Parliament fully assembled consists of the King, with the two estates of the Peerage sitting in one house, and the Commons by their representatives standing below the bar."
Dodd'sManual of Dignities, &c., tit. "Parliament," p. 266.
Your correspondent will find the ample story in theGolden Legend. It is related more succinctly by Roger of Wendover, who has been followed by later chroniclers. In the legend, as related by Roger of Wendover, the murder of Kenelm is said to have been miraculously notified at Rome by a white dove alighting on the altar of St. Peter's church, bearing a scroll in her bill, which she let fall. The scroll contained, among other things, the following lines:
"In Clente cou bacheKenelm kine-bearn,Lith under thorneHavedes bereaved."
"In Clente cou bache
Kenelm kine-bearn,
Lith under thorne
Havedes bereaved."
"Qui Latine sonat (says the Chronicler) in pastum vaccarum Kenelmius regis filius jacet sub spina capite privatus."
MS. Douce, fo. 66.b.
And afterwards he says:
"De hujus quoque sancte martyris quidam sic ait:In Clent, sub spina, jacet inconvalle bovina,Vertice privatus, Kenelmus rege creatus."
"De hujus quoque sancte martyris quidam sic ait:
In Clent, sub spina, jacet inconvalle bovina,
Vertice privatus, Kenelmus rege creatus."
"Cou bache" has been erroneously printed "cou bathe;" and travestied sometimes intocoubage.
Clentis the name of the place, a wood according to theGolden Legend.Bach, or Bache, is a word that had long escaped the glossarists, with the exception of Dr. Whitaker, who says it is "a Mereno-Saxon word, signifyinga bottom, and that it enters into the composition of several local names in the midland counties."
The passage inPiers Ploughman, upon which this is a gloss, occurs at p. 119. of Whitaker's edition:
"Ac ther was weye non so wys (that the way thider coutheBote blostred forth as bestes)over bachesand bulles."
"Ac ther was weye non so wys (that the way thider couthe
Bote blostred forth as bestes)over bachesand bulles."
The word occurs several times inLayamon, and on two occasions the later text readsslade; in one passage we have it thus:
"Ofdalenand ofdunenAnd ofbæcchendeopen."
"Ofdalenand ofdunen
And ofbæcchendeopen."
The cognate languages would have led us to a different interpretation ofBache. In Suevo-Gothic,Backeis "an ascent or descent, extremitas montes, alias crepido vel ora." Wachter hasBacke; collis, tumulus; of whichBühel, collis clivus, is the diminutive still in use. In SwedishBacke, and in DanishBakke, is a hill or rising ground; and Ray, in hisTravels, has "abaich, or languet of land." There has probably been some confusion here, as well as in the two similar wordsduneanddene, forhillandvalley.
S. W. SINGER.
The legend of the sainted King Kenelm is related at great length, and with very precise references to the various chroniclers in which it is to be found, in the 1st vol. (pp. 721-4.) of MacCabe'sCatholic History of England. The Saxon couplet in which his death was announced at Rome is very neatly rendered in Butler'sLives of the Saints:—
"In Clent cow pasture under a thorn,Of head bereft, lies Kenelm king-born."
"In Clent cow pasture under a thorn,
Of head bereft, lies Kenelm king-born."
A. M.
The lady about whom FANNYinquires, was the wife of William Lord Fitz-Warine, who died in 35 Edward III. (1361), as to whom seeDugd. Bar.i. 447. The register of interments and sepulchral inscriptions in the church of the Grey Friars, London, printed in the fifth volume ofCollectanea Topogr. et Geneal.(the entry is at p. 278.), which I presume to be the authority for the statement in Knight'sLondon, does not afford further information as to this lady, who is reckoned amongst the four queens said by Weever (following Stowe) to have been interred in this church. Mr. J. G. Nichols, in his note to the entry referred to, does not add any information about the lady Isabel.
There was a Sybil, who was daughter of William Montacute, Earl of Salisbury and King of Man and Derby, one of the most distinguished characters in the heroic age of Edward III. She married Edmund, the younger of the two sons of Edmund Earl of Arundel, by Alice, sister and heir of John, last Earl of Warren and Surrey, who died in 1347 (Dugd. Bar.i. 82.). William Montacute was created Earl of Salisbury 16th March, 1337, and died in 1343, and was entombed in the church of the Friars Carmelites, London (Weever, 437.). He was connected with the family of John Earl of Surrey, for it appears from a grant made by the king in 11 Edward III. to William Earl of Salisbury, that he was entitled in reversion to certain hereditaments then held by John de Warren, Earl of Surrey, and Joan his wife (Collect. Top. et Gen.vii. 379.). The valiant Montacute, lord of Man, did not die without heirs male, for his son William was his heir; otherwise we might have supposed the dominion of the isle to have devolved on his daughter Sybil or Isabel, who, surviving Edmund her husband, may have married the Lord Fitz-Warine. Can evidence of such connexion be found? I have not met with anything to connect his family with the lordship of the Isle of Man, and am not aware that "Isabel Queen of Man" is mentioned in any record save the sepulchral register of the Grey Friars. I wish some clue could be found to a satisfactory answer.
The other branch of the question proposed by FANNY, viz., when did the Isle of Man cease to be an independent kingdom? can be answered by a short historical statement. So early as the reign of John, its sovereigns rendered fealty and homage to the kings of England. Reginald, styled King of Man, did homage to Henry III., as appears by the extract given from theRot. Pat.3 Hen. III., by Selden. During a series of years previously, the kings of Man, who seem to have held this isle together with the Hebrides, had done homage to the kings of Norway, and its bishops went to Drontheim for consecration. Magnus, last sovereign of Man of the Norwegian dynasty, died in 1265. From that period the shadowy crown of Man is seen from time to time resting on lords of different races, and its descent is in many periods involved in great obscurity. After the death of Magnus, the island was seized by Alexander III. of Scotland. A daughter and heiress of Reginald sued for it against John Baliol before Edward I. of England as lord paramount of Man (Rot. Parl.31 Edw. I.). In 35 Edw. I., we find Anthony Bek, the warlike Bishop and Count Palatine of Durham, in possession of the isle; but the king of England then claimed to resume it into his own hands, as of the ancient right of the crown. Accordingly, from sundry records it appears that Edw. II. and Edw. III. committed its custody to various persons, and the latter king at length conferred his right to it upon William Montacute, Earl of Salisbury, in consideration, probably, of that valiant Earl having by his arms regained the island from the Scots, who had resumed possession, and of the circumstance that his grandmother, the wife of Simon de Montacute, was sister and heiress of one of the former kings of Man, and related to the lady who had claimed it as her inheritance on the death of Magnus. The son and heir of the grantee sold the isle to Scrope, Earl of Wiltshire, about 16 Rich. II. In the time of Hen. IV., Sir William Scrope forfeited his possessions (Dugd. Bar.ii. 250.); and the isle again came to the crown. It was granted to Percy, Earl of Northumberland, by the service of bearing the Lancaster sword on the left shoulder of the king on the day of coronation; was forfeited by Percy; and was thereupon granted by the same king to Sir John Stanley and his heirs, under which grant the Earls of Derby succeededduring many years. It was a subject of a grant to the Stanleys by Queen Elizabeth, and of an act of parliament in the reign of James I., under which the isle became vested in the Duchess Dowager of Athol, as heir of the body of James, seventh Earl of Derby, and ultimately became vested by purchase in the crown. It may be said that during the time of authentic history, the Isle of Man was not an independent kingdom, until the regality was granted by the crown, as already mentioned.
WM. SIDNEYGIBSON.
Newcastle-on-Tyne.
When I wrote my note uponLong Meg of Westminster, I was not aware of the following passage in Fuller'sWorthies(Westminster, edit. 1662, p. 236.):
"As long as Megg of Westminster.—This is applyed to persons very tall, especially if they havehop-pole-height, wantingbreadthproportionable thereunto. That such agyant-womanever was in Westminster, cannot be proved by any good witness (I pass not for a late lyingpamphlet), though some in proof thereof produce her gravestone on thesouth-sideof thecloistures, which (I confess) is as long, and large, and entiremarbleas ever I beheld. But be it known, that nowomanin that age was interred in thecloistures, appropriated to the sepultures of theabbotand hismonkes. Besides, I have read in the records of thatAbbyof an infectious year, wherein many monkes dyed of theplague, and were all buried in one grave; probably in this place, under thismarble monument. If there be any truth in the proverb, it rather relateth to a great gun, lying in the tower, commonly call'dLong Megg; and in troublesome times (perchance uponill May dayin the raigne of KingHenrythe eighth), brought toWestminster, where for a good time it continued. But thisNut(perchance) deserves not the cracking."
Grose, in hisProvincial Glossary, inserts among theLocal Proverbs, "As Long as Megg of Westminster," with the following note:—
"This is applied to very tall slender persons. Some think it alluded to a long gun, called Megg, in troublesome times brought from the tower to Westminster, where it long remained. Others suppose it to refer to an old fictitious story of a monstrous tall virago called Long Megg of Westminster, of whom there is a small penny history, well known to school-boys of the lesser sort. In it there are many relations of her prowess. Whether there ever was such a woman or not, is immaterial; the story is sufficiently ancient to have occasioned the saying. Megg is there described as having breadth in proportion to her height. Fuller says, that the large grave-stone shown on the south side of the cloister in Westminster Abbey, said to cover her body, was, as he has read in an ancient record, placed over a number of monks who died of the plague, and were all buried in one grave; that being the place appointed for the sepulture of the abbots and monks, in which no woman was permitted to be interred."—Edit. 1811, p. 207.
I shall not enter into the question, as to whether any "tall woman" of "bad repute" was or was not buried in the cloisters of Westminster, as it is very likely to turn out, upon a little inquiry, that theoriginal"long Meg" was a "great gun," and not a creature of flesh and blood.
"Long Meg" is also the name of a large gun preserved in the castle of Edinburgh; and, what is somewhat extraordinary, the great bombard forged for the siege of Oudenarde, in 1382, now in the city of Ghent, is called by the towns-people "Mad Meg."
A series of stones, situated upon an eminence on the east side of the river Eden, near the village of Little Salkeld, are commonly known as "Long Meg and her Daughters."
These notices, at any rate, are suggestive, and may be the means of elucidating something perhaps more worth the knowing.
EDWARDF. RIMBAULT.
My enquiry into the use of stops in the early days of typography will, if it prove nothing else, show that theTablet of Memoryis not an authority to be depended upon on that subject. I have arranged the authorities which I have consulted in chronological order.
1480.Epistola F. Philelphi ad Sextum IV., printed at Rome.
1493. Politian's Latin translation ofHerodian, printed at Bologna.
In both these books the colon and period are used, but neither the comma nor semicolon.
1523.Dialogi Platonis, printed at Nuremberg.
Here I find the comma and period, and also the note of interrogation, but not the colon or semicolon.
1523.Ascensius declynsons, with the playne Expositor, without date, place, or printer's name.
This publication is ascribed by Johnson to Wynkyn de Worde, and therefore printed between 1493 and 1534. I find in it the following amusing passage relative to the ancient art of punctuation:—
"Of the Craft of Poynting.
"There be fiue maner poynts, and divisions most uside with cunnyng men: the which, if they be wel usid, make the sentens very light, and esy to understond both to the reder and the herer, and they be these:virgil,come, parenthesis, playne poynt, and interrogatif. Avirgilis a sclender stryke: lenynge forwarde this wyse, betokynynge a lytyl, short rest without any perfetnes yet of sentens: as betwene the five poyntis a forerehersid. Acomeis with tway tittels this wyse: betokynynge a longer reste: and the sentens yet either is imperfet: or els, if it be perfet: ther cummith more after, longyng to it: the which more comynly cannot be perfet by itself without at the lest summat of it: that gothe a fore. Aparenthesisis with tway crokyd virgils: as an olde mone, and a new bely to bely: the whyche be set theton afore the begynyng, and thetother after the latyr ende of a clause; comyng within an other clause: that may be perfet: thof the clause, so comyng betwene: wer awey, and therfore it is sowndyde comynly a note lower, than the utter clause. Yf the sentens cannot be perfet without the ynner clause, then stede of the first crokyde virgil a streght virgil wol do very wel; and stede of the later must nedis be a come. Aplayne poyntis with won tittel this wyse. and it cumeth after the ende of al the whole sentens betokynynge a longe reste. Aninterrogatifis with tway tittels, the upper rysing this wyse? and it cumeth after the ende of a whole reason: wheryn ther is sum question axside. the whiche ende of the reson, triyng as it were for an answere: risyth upwarde. we have these rulis in englishe: by cause they be as profytable, and necessary to be kepte in every mother tonge, as in latyn. Sethyn we (as we wolde to god: every precher wolde do) have kept owre rulis both in owre englishe, and latyn: what nede we, sethyn owre own be sufficient unogh: to put any other exemplis."
It is evident that what the writer of this book calls thevirgil, is our comma: and hiscome, our colon. There is nothing, however, allusive to our semicolon.
1541. Cranmer'sBible. Here we find the comma, colon, and period, and also the note of interrogation, but not the semicolon.
1597. Gerard'sHerbalcontains the comma, colon, semicolon, and period.
1604. First part of Shakspeare'sHenry IV., 4to. Here the comma, colon, and period are used, but not the semicolon.
1631. Baker'sWell-spring of Sciencealso uses the comma, colon, and period, but not the semicolon.
1636. Record'sGround of Arts. Here all the stops now in use are found.
1639. Cockeram'sEnglish Dictionarydefines the comma, colon, and period, but not the semicolon. The latter, however, isusedin the preface.
1650. Moore'sArithmeticemploys all the four common stops.
1670. Blount'sGlossographiadefines the four common stops.
Generally speaking, the stops now in use may be found in books from about 1630. So much concerning punctuation.
P. T.
Your correspondent S. R. will find that in Ireland, as well as in England, the custom prevailed, during the reign of Elizabeth, of inflicting a punishment for various crimes, by the public exposure of the delinquents with papers about their heads. The following "sentence" for adultery, which has been transcribed from theBook of the Commissioners of Ecclesiastical Causes(deposited amongst the records of the Court of Exchequer in Ireland, 1570-1574, p. 22.), goes so fully into detail, that it may supply to S. R. the graphic account which he requires:—
"First, that he (Henry Hunchcliffe) shall not come into, nor kepe, nor use the company of Constance Kyng hereafter, and shalbe bounde to the same effecte in a bond of recognizance of a 100l., otherwise to be committed to prison; there to be kept in such sort that neyther he to hir, nor she to him, shall have access in anywise. Secondlie, that upon Saterdaie next enseweing at ix of the clocke in the mornyng, he, the said Eyland,aliasHunchcliffe, shall come unto the crosse in the highe strete of Dublin, having on a white shete from his sholders downe to the ground, rounde aboute him, and a paper about his head whereupon shalbe writtenfor adultery leavyng his wife in England alyve and marryeng wthan other here, and a white wande in his hand, and then and there goe up unto the highest staire of the crosse, and there sitte duryng all the time of the markette untill yt be ended; and furder decreed that Constance Kyng shall not hereafter in anywise resort or have accesse unto him, or kepe him company, and to performe the same they toke hir othe wchshe gave upon the holie evangelists; and furder, after ytHunchcliffe hath done his penance as above they decreed he shold goe to prison againe, there to remayne and abide untill ytshall please the commissioners to take furder order in this cause."
The book contains other entries of a similar kind.
J. F. F.
Dublin.
—In addition to the sermons enumerated, I possess two more in small quarto:—1. "Preached at the triennial visitation of the R. R. father in God, the Lord Bishop of London, in Christchurch: text, 15 Actes 36: London, 1625." 2. "The holy choice.at the chappell by Guildhall, at the solemnitie of the election of the Rt. Honblethe Lord Maior of London: text, 1 Actes 24. 1625."
E. D.
—John Wiggan, M.D., the editor ofAretæus(Oxon. fol. 1723), was in 1721 a student of Christ Church.
M. D.
—The words
"Poets beware! never compareWomen to aught in earth or in air," &c.
"Poets beware! never compare
Women to aught in earth or in air," &c.
are the first of a song by Thomas Haynes Bayly, written for and arranged to music by T. A. Rawlings, inThe Musical Bijoufor 1830, edited byF. H. Burney, published by Goulding and d'Almaine, 20. Soho Square.
E. B. R.
—It is a well-known fact that the proud Duke of Somerset, and Prince George, his successor as a Knight of the Garter, occupied the space between 1684 and 1820. The anecdote, however, related of George IV. by your intelligent correspondent C. cannot be correct, becausethe blue ribbon was conferred upon Lord Moira by the Prince Regent in June, 1812, who advanced him in 1816 to the Marquisate of Hastings,and George III. did not die till 1820. The story, therefore, must belong to the period of the Regency, and not to the commencement of the reign of George IV.
BRAYBROOKE.
Audley End.
There is some error in the statement of C. George IV. succeeded to the throne 29th January, 1820, and the vacancy in the Order of the Garter occasioned by his accession he gave to the Marquess of Buckingham, who was elected 12th June that year. The Earl of Moira was elected and invested in 1812, upon the vacancy created by the death of William, fifth Duke of Devonshire, and was the third knight made during the Regency. (See Beltz'sSuccession of the Knights, pp. ccxi. and ccxiv.) Lord Moira never occupied the stall of George IV., which before his accession was that of Prince of Wales.
At the time of the death of the Duke of Somerset, in 1748, there were several vacancies; and on the 22d June, 1749, George Prince of Brunswick, afterwards King George III., was elected in the room of John Earl Powlett, and John Earl Granville was elected in the room of the Duke of Somerset. (SeeBeltz, cciii.)
G.
—M—N, in "N. & Q." of the 17th ultimo, wishes to know what became of these valuable MSS. I understand that, just before the auction at Enmore Castle in 1831, these MSS. passed into the possession of the late Sir Matthew Tierney, Bart., by private contract, or some arrangement of the kind. And most likely they now are in the possession of his brother, Sir Edward Tierney, Bart., who for a long period was the confidential friend, as well as the land and law agent of the fourth Earl of Egmont: in any case, he is the only person who can give M—Nthe information he requires respecting them: and, if written to on the subject, I have no doubt will communicate all he knows about him.
E. A. G.
Richmond.
—I am able to afford your correspondent F. RUSSELLbut little information respecting Dr. John Ash; but that is authentic, being taken from an entry in his own handwriting in the Admission Book of Trinity College. It is to the following effect:
"Ego Joannes Ash, Fil Josephi Ash, gen. (generosi) de Coventria in Com. Warwick: natus ibidem annos circiter 16 admissus sum com. infer. ordinis (commersalis inferioris ordinis) sub tutamine magistri Geering 4oDie Martii, 1739-40."
There is no other John Ash admitted between 1737 and 1764; therefore it may be presumed this is the same person.
T. W.
Trin. Coll. Oxon.
P.S.—I find by the corrected list of Oxford graduates, just published, that Dr. Ash took his degrees of B.A. Oct. 21, 1743; M.A. Oct. 17, 1746; B.M. Dec. 6, 1750; D.M. July 3, 1754.
—The words "Inveni portum" remind me of Byron's answer to a friend, who claimed his congratulations upon receiving a valuable appointment; "for," said he, "I may now say with truth, 'Portum inveni.'" "I am very glad to hear it," replied Byron, "for you have finished many bottles of mine."
NOTE.
—Thanks to your sensible correspondent A. E. B.! Atrue poetalways puts the right word in the right place, and A. E. B.'s good taste assured him of Goldsmith's propriety.
We have it upon record, that Burke asked Goldsmith what he meant by the word "slow," in the first line of hisTraveller—