Jones—Was she swelled with water?Berry—I did not perceive her swelled; I was amazed at it; and did not so much mind it as I should.Jones—But you remember her eyes were staring open?Berry—Yes.Jones—Did you see any marks or bruises about her?Berry—No.Cowper—Did you see her legs?Berry—No, I did not.Cowper—They were not above the water?Berry—No.Cowper—Could you see them under the water?Berry—I did not so much mind it.Cowper—Did she lie straight or double, driven together by the stream?Berry—I did not observe.Cowper—Did you not observe the weeds and trumpery under her?Berry—There was no weeds at that time thereabouts.Jones—Was the water clear?Berry—No, it was thick water.Jones—Was there anything under her in the water to prevent her sinking?Berry—No, I do not know there was; she lay on her right side, and her right arm was driven between the stakes, which are within a foot of one another.Jones—Did anything hinder her from sinking?Berry—Not that I saw.Cowper—Mr. Berry, if I understand you right, you say her arm was driven between the stakes, and her head between the stakes; could you perceive her right arm, and where was her left arm?Berry—Within a small matter upon the water.Hatsell, Baron—Did you see her head and arm between the stakes?Berry—Yes, her arm by one stake and her head by another.Jones—Did her arm hang down or how?Berry—I did not mind so much as I might have done.
Jones—Was she swelled with water?
Berry—I did not perceive her swelled; I was amazed at it; and did not so much mind it as I should.
Jones—But you remember her eyes were staring open?
Berry—Yes.
Jones—Did you see any marks or bruises about her?
Berry—No.
Cowper—Did you see her legs?
Berry—No, I did not.
Cowper—They were not above the water?
Berry—No.
Cowper—Could you see them under the water?
Berry—I did not so much mind it.
Cowper—Did she lie straight or double, driven together by the stream?
Berry—I did not observe.
Cowper—Did you not observe the weeds and trumpery under her?
Berry—There was no weeds at that time thereabouts.
Jones—Was the water clear?
Berry—No, it was thick water.
Jones—Was there anything under her in the water to prevent her sinking?
Berry—No, I do not know there was; she lay on her right side, and her right arm was driven between the stakes, which are within a foot of one another.
Jones—Did anything hinder her from sinking?
Berry—Not that I saw.
Cowper—Mr. Berry, if I understand you right, you say her arm was driven between the stakes, and her head between the stakes; could you perceive her right arm, and where was her left arm?
Berry—Within a small matter upon the water.
Hatsell, Baron—Did you see her head and arm between the stakes?
Berry—Yes, her arm by one stake and her head by another.
Jones—Did her arm hang down or how?
Berry—I did not mind so much as I might have done.
John VenablesandLeonard Dellcorroborated Berry's account of the position of the body, the latter asserting that the right arm did not reach to the ground.Dellalso helped to carry the body to land, but saw no bruises.
Hatsell, Baron—When you took her out of the water, did you observe her body swelled?Dell—We carried her into the meadow, and laid her on the bank-side, and there she lay about an hour, and then was ordered to be carried into the miller's.Hatsell, Baron—Did you observe that any water was in the body?Dell—None at all that I could see; but there was some small matter of froth came from her mouth and nostrils.Juryman—My lord, I desire to know whether her stays were laced.Dell—Yes, she was laced.Cowper—How was she taken out of the water?Dell—My lord, we stood upon the bridge, I and another man, where she lay, and he laid hold of her and took her out.Jones—And did you not perceive she was hung?Dell—No, my lord.
Hatsell, Baron—When you took her out of the water, did you observe her body swelled?
Dell—We carried her into the meadow, and laid her on the bank-side, and there she lay about an hour, and then was ordered to be carried into the miller's.
Hatsell, Baron—Did you observe that any water was in the body?
Dell—None at all that I could see; but there was some small matter of froth came from her mouth and nostrils.
Juryman—My lord, I desire to know whether her stays were laced.
Dell—Yes, she was laced.
Cowper—How was she taken out of the water?
Dell—My lord, we stood upon the bridge, I and another man, where she lay, and he laid hold of her and took her out.
Jones—And did you not perceive she was hung?
Dell—No, my lord.
John Ulfesaw Mrs. Stout when she was taken out of the water; she lay there on one side; there was nothing at all to hold her up; she lay between a couple of stakes, but the stakes could not hold her up.
Katherine Dew, Edward Blackno, William Edmunds, William Page, William How, and John Meagerall gave the same account of the position and state of the body, Dew and Ulfe adding that her shoes and stockings were not muddy.
Jones—Now, my lord, we will give an account how she was when she was stript, and they came to view the body. Call John Dimsdale, junior. (Who was sworn.)Dimsdale—My lord, I was sent for at night on Tuesday the last assizes.Cowper—My lord, if your lordship pleases, I havesome physicians of note and eminency that are come down from London; I desire that they may be called into Court to hear what the surgeons say.Hatsell, Baron—Ay, by all means.Cowper—My lord, there is Dr. Sloane, Dr. Garth, Dr. Morley, Dr. Gilstrop, Dr. Harriot, Dr. Wollaston, Dr. Crell, Mr. William Cowper, Mr. Bartlett, and Mr. Camlin. [Who respectively appeared in Court.]Jones—Give an account how you found Mrs. Stout.Hatsell, Baron—You are a physician, I suppose, Sir?Dimsdale[45]—A surgeon, my lord. When I was sent for to Mrs. Stout's, I was sent for two or three times before I would go; for I was unwilling after I heard Mrs. Stout was drowned; for I thought with myself, what need could there be of me when the person was dead? but she still sent; and then I went with Mr. Camlin, and found a little swelling on the side of her neck, and she was black on both sides, and more particularly on the left side, and between her breasts up towards the collar-bone; and that was all I saw at that time, only a little mark upon one of her arms, and I think upon her left arm.Jones—How were her ears?Dimsdale—There was a settling of blood on both sides the neck, that was all I saw at that time.Jones—How do you think she came by it?Dimsdale—Truly I only gave an account just as I say now to the gentlemen at that time, I saw no more of it at that time, but about six weeks after the body was opened by Dr. Phillips——Cowper—My lord, he is going to another piece of evidence and I would ask him——Jones—Let us have done first; how was her ears?Dimsdale—There was a blackness on both ears, a settling of blood.Jones—Call Sarah Kimpson.Hatsell, Baron—Mr. Cowper, now you may ask him anything, they have done with him.Cowper—I would ask him, whether he was not employed to view these particular spots he mentions at the Coroner's inquest?Dimsdale—I was desired to look upon the face and arms, and breast, because they said there was a settling of blood there.Cowper—When you returned to the Coroner's inquest, what did you certify as your opinion?Dimsdale—I did certify that there was a settling of blood; but how it came I could not tell.Cowper—I ask you, Sir, did not you say it was no more than a common stagnation usual in dead bodies?Dimsdale—I do not remember a word of it.Cowper—Sir, I would ask you; you say the spot was about the collar-bone; was it above or below?Dimsdale—From the collar-bone downwards.Cowper—Had she any circle about her neck?Dimsdale—No; not, upon my oath.
Jones—Now, my lord, we will give an account how she was when she was stript, and they came to view the body. Call John Dimsdale, junior. (Who was sworn.)
Dimsdale—My lord, I was sent for at night on Tuesday the last assizes.
Cowper—My lord, if your lordship pleases, I havesome physicians of note and eminency that are come down from London; I desire that they may be called into Court to hear what the surgeons say.
Hatsell, Baron—Ay, by all means.
Cowper—My lord, there is Dr. Sloane, Dr. Garth, Dr. Morley, Dr. Gilstrop, Dr. Harriot, Dr. Wollaston, Dr. Crell, Mr. William Cowper, Mr. Bartlett, and Mr. Camlin. [Who respectively appeared in Court.]
Jones—Give an account how you found Mrs. Stout.
Hatsell, Baron—You are a physician, I suppose, Sir?
Dimsdale[45]—A surgeon, my lord. When I was sent for to Mrs. Stout's, I was sent for two or three times before I would go; for I was unwilling after I heard Mrs. Stout was drowned; for I thought with myself, what need could there be of me when the person was dead? but she still sent; and then I went with Mr. Camlin, and found a little swelling on the side of her neck, and she was black on both sides, and more particularly on the left side, and between her breasts up towards the collar-bone; and that was all I saw at that time, only a little mark upon one of her arms, and I think upon her left arm.
Jones—How were her ears?
Dimsdale—There was a settling of blood on both sides the neck, that was all I saw at that time.
Jones—How do you think she came by it?
Dimsdale—Truly I only gave an account just as I say now to the gentlemen at that time, I saw no more of it at that time, but about six weeks after the body was opened by Dr. Phillips——
Cowper—My lord, he is going to another piece of evidence and I would ask him——
Jones—Let us have done first; how was her ears?
Dimsdale—There was a blackness on both ears, a settling of blood.
Jones—Call Sarah Kimpson.
Hatsell, Baron—Mr. Cowper, now you may ask him anything, they have done with him.
Cowper—I would ask him, whether he was not employed to view these particular spots he mentions at the Coroner's inquest?
Dimsdale—I was desired to look upon the face and arms, and breast, because they said there was a settling of blood there.
Cowper—When you returned to the Coroner's inquest, what did you certify as your opinion?
Dimsdale—I did certify that there was a settling of blood; but how it came I could not tell.
Cowper—I ask you, Sir, did not you say it was no more than a common stagnation usual in dead bodies?
Dimsdale—I do not remember a word of it.
Cowper—Sir, I would ask you; you say the spot was about the collar-bone; was it above or below?
Dimsdale—From the collar-bone downwards.
Cowper—Had she any circle about her neck?
Dimsdale—No; not, upon my oath.
Sarah Kimpsonsaw the body examined; shesaw a great bruise behind the ear, as big as her hand, and another under her collar-bone.
Jones—Did you see nothing about her neck?Kimpson—Nothing round her neck; on the side of her neck there was a mark.Jones—Was there any other part bruised?Kimpson—Only her left wrist, and her body was very flat and lank.
Jones—Did you see nothing about her neck?
Kimpson—Nothing round her neck; on the side of her neck there was a mark.
Jones—Was there any other part bruised?
Kimpson—Only her left wrist, and her body was very flat and lank.
She saw the body the day it was found; it was not swollen; she did not see any water about it. She had seen a child which was drowned in the same place about ten weeks before; it was drowned at night and found the next morning; it was found at the bottom of the river, the eyes were shut, and the body was very much swelled.
Sarah Peppercornsaw the body of Sarah Stout when it was brought to Mrs. Stout's house. She saw bruises on the head and near the ear. Mrs. Stout asked her whether her daughter had been with child, and she said she had not; she was a midwife.
Elizabeth Huslerwas sworn.
Jones—Had you the view of the body of Mrs. Sarah Stout the day you heard she was drowned?Husler—She was not drowned, my lord; I went thither and helped to pull off her clothes.Jones—In what condition was her body?Husler—Her body was very lank and thin, and no water appeared to be in it.
Jones—Had you the view of the body of Mrs. Sarah Stout the day you heard she was drowned?
Husler—She was not drowned, my lord; I went thither and helped to pull off her clothes.
Jones—In what condition was her body?
Husler—Her body was very lank and thin, and no water appeared to be in it.
There was no water about her mouth and nose; there were bruises at the top of the collar-bone and upon both her ears.
Ann Pilkingtonsaw the body, and gave the same evidence as to its general condition as the other witnesses.
Cowper—Had she any circle about her neck?Pilkington—No, not that I did see.Cowper—Pray, did you not make some deposition to that purpose that you know of?Pilkington—Sir, I never did, and dare not do it.Cowper—It was read against me in the King's Bench, and I will prove it; was not Mr. Mead with you at the time of your examination?Pilkington—Yes.Cowper—Did he not put in some words, and what were they?Pilkington—Not that I know of.Cowper—But you never swore so, upon your oath?Pilkington—No, I do not believe I did; if I did it was ignorantly.Jones—Here is her examination, it is 'cross her neck.'
Cowper—Had she any circle about her neck?
Pilkington—No, not that I did see.
Cowper—Pray, did you not make some deposition to that purpose that you know of?
Pilkington—Sir, I never did, and dare not do it.
Cowper—It was read against me in the King's Bench, and I will prove it; was not Mr. Mead with you at the time of your examination?
Pilkington—Yes.
Cowper—Did he not put in some words, and what were they?
Pilkington—Not that I know of.
Cowper—But you never swore so, upon your oath?
Pilkington—No, I do not believe I did; if I did it was ignorantly.
Jones—Here is her examination, it is 'cross her neck.'
Mr. Coatsworth, a surgeon, was called and deposed that in April he had been sent for, by Dr. Phillips, to come to Hertford to see the body of Mrs. Stout, who had been six weeks buried. Various parts of the body were examined; the woman had not been with child; the intestines and stomach were full of air, but there was no water in them, or the breast, orlobes of the lungs; there was no water in the diaphragm.
Then I remember I said, this woman could not be drowned, for if she had taken in water, the water must have rotted all the guts; that was the construction I made of it then; but for any marks about the head or neck, it was impossible for us to discover it, because they were so rotten.
Then I remember I said, this woman could not be drowned, for if she had taken in water, the water must have rotted all the guts; that was the construction I made of it then; but for any marks about the head or neck, it was impossible for us to discover it, because they were so rotten.
The inspection was made on the 28th of April, and the woman was drowned on the 13th of March. The doctor had offered to examine the skull, to see if it had been injured, 'but they did not suspect a broken skull in the case, and we did not examine it.' All the other parts were sound.
Jones—Call John Dimsdale.Cowper—My lord, I would know, and I desire to be heard to this point; I think where the Coroner's inquest have viewed the body, and the relations have been heard, and the body buried, that it is not to be stirred afterwards for any private inspection of parties, that intend to make themselves prosecutors; but if it is to be taken up, it is to be done by some legal authority; for if it should be otherwise, any gentleman may be easily trepanned: for instance, if they should have thought fit, after the Coroner's view, to have broken the skull into a hundred pieces, this was a private view altogether among themselves. Certainly, if they intended to have prosecuted me, or any other gentleman upon this evidence, they ought to have given us notice, that we might have had somesurgeons among them, to superintend their proceedings. My lord, with submission, this ought not to be given in evidence.Hatsell, Baron—Mr. Cowper, I think you are not in earnest; there is no colour for this objection: if they did take up the body without notice, why should not that be evidence? unless you think they had a design to forswear themselves.Cowper—Had you aMelius Inquirendum, or any lawful warrant for making this inspection?Coatsworth—No, there was not.Hatsell, Baron—Suppose they did an ill thing in taking up the body without some order, though I do not know any more ill in taking up that body than any other; but, however, is that any reason why we should not hear this evidence?Coatsworth—Mr. Camblin, sir Wm. Cowper's surgeon, was there by.
Jones—Call John Dimsdale.
Cowper—My lord, I would know, and I desire to be heard to this point; I think where the Coroner's inquest have viewed the body, and the relations have been heard, and the body buried, that it is not to be stirred afterwards for any private inspection of parties, that intend to make themselves prosecutors; but if it is to be taken up, it is to be done by some legal authority; for if it should be otherwise, any gentleman may be easily trepanned: for instance, if they should have thought fit, after the Coroner's view, to have broken the skull into a hundred pieces, this was a private view altogether among themselves. Certainly, if they intended to have prosecuted me, or any other gentleman upon this evidence, they ought to have given us notice, that we might have had somesurgeons among them, to superintend their proceedings. My lord, with submission, this ought not to be given in evidence.
Hatsell, Baron—Mr. Cowper, I think you are not in earnest; there is no colour for this objection: if they did take up the body without notice, why should not that be evidence? unless you think they had a design to forswear themselves.
Cowper—Had you aMelius Inquirendum, or any lawful warrant for making this inspection?
Coatsworth—No, there was not.
Hatsell, Baron—Suppose they did an ill thing in taking up the body without some order, though I do not know any more ill in taking up that body than any other; but, however, is that any reason why we should not hear this evidence?
Coatsworth—Mr. Camblin, sir Wm. Cowper's surgeon, was there by.
Mr. Dimsdale, senior, a surgeon, was sworn and deposed that he had been sent for on the 28th of April by Mrs. Stout, to view the body of her daughter.
Finding her head so much mortified, down to her neck, we thought all the parts were seized, and had a consultation, whether we should open her or not; but Mrs. Stout was very enraged, because a great scandal had been raised, that her daughter was with child; and she said she would have her opened to clear her reputation.
Finding her head so much mortified, down to her neck, we thought all the parts were seized, and had a consultation, whether we should open her or not; but Mrs. Stout was very enraged, because a great scandal had been raised, that her daughter was with child; and she said she would have her opened to clear her reputation.
The body was examined, with the same result that the other witness had described, no waterbeing found either in the stomach or the lungs.
After this we had a consultation, to consider whether she was drowned or not drowned; and we were all of opinion that she was not drowned; only Mr. Camblin desired he might be excused from giving his opinion whether she was drowned or not; but all the rest of us did give our opinions that she was not drowned.
After this we had a consultation, to consider whether she was drowned or not drowned; and we were all of opinion that she was not drowned; only Mr. Camblin desired he might be excused from giving his opinion whether she was drowned or not; but all the rest of us did give our opinions that she was not drowned.
The grounds for this opinion were the absence of water from the lungs and intestines; and this was a sign which would show whether she had been drowned or not weeks after her death. In answer to Cowper he admitted that he had never seen a body opened which had been drowned six weeks. If a body had been drowned a fortnight, the bowels would be so rotten that it would be impossible to come near it.
John Dimsdale, junior, believed that the body had not been drowned, and signed a certificate to that effect after looking at the body; he believed it, because he found no water in the body. He had seen the child that was drowned the morning after it was drowned, and had found abundance of water in the body then.
Dr. Dimsdalesaw the body after it was opened, and on finding no water in the thorax or abdomen, signed the certificate. Had the woman been drowned he would have expected to find water in the thorax.
Cowper—Is it possible there should be water in the thorax according to your skill?Dimsdale—Yes, we did think there would have been, if she had been drowned.
Cowper—Is it possible there should be water in the thorax according to your skill?
Dimsdale—Yes, we did think there would have been, if she had been drowned.
He would have expected to find traces of it after six weeks.
Cowper—Pray by what passage does the water go into the thorax?Dimsdale—It will be very difficult for me to describe the manner here; but we should have found some in the stomach and intestines.Cowper—Pray, sir, how should it go into the thorax?Dimsdale—By the lymphæduct, if carried by any means.
Cowper—Pray by what passage does the water go into the thorax?
Dimsdale—It will be very difficult for me to describe the manner here; but we should have found some in the stomach and intestines.
Cowper—Pray, sir, how should it go into the thorax?
Dimsdale—By the lymphæduct, if carried by any means.
No water would come into a body after it was dead, but he questioned whether or not it might come into the windpipe.
Cowper—Sir, I would ask you, was you not angry that Mr. Camblin would not join with you in opinion?Dimsdale—No.Cowper—Did you not tell him that you were a graduate physician, and was angry he would not join you?Dimsdale—Suppose I did?Hatsell, Baron—But did you so or no?Dimsdale—Yes, my lord, we had some words about it.Jones—Swear Dr. Coatsworth. (Which was done.) Now, my lord, we call these gentlemen that are doctors of skill, to know their opinions of them thatare found floating without water in them, how they came by their death.Dr. Coatsworth—I have not seen many drowned bodies to make observation upon; but it is my opinion, that every body that is drowned, is suffocated by water passing down the windpipe into the lungs upon respiration; and at the same time, the water pressing upon the gullet, there will be a necessity of swallowing a great part of it into the stomach; I have been in danger of being drowned myself, and I was forced to swallow a great quantity of water. If a person was drowned, and taken out immediately, as soon as the suffocation was effected, I should not wonder if there were but little water in the stomach and guts; but if it lay in the water several hours, it must be very strange if the belly should not be full of water; but I will not say, it is impossible it should be otherwise.Cowper—I desire to know, whether this gentleman attempted to drown himself, or was in danger of being drowned by accident?Dr. Coatsworth—It was by accident: I was passing up the ship-side, and took hold of a loose rope instead of the entering rope, which failing me, I fell into the water.Cowper—But you struggled to save yourself from drowning?Dr. Coatsworth—I did so; I have seen several persons that have been drowned, and they have lain several days, until by fermentation they have been raised; but I never made my observations of any persons that have been drowned above six hours.Jones—Did you ever hear of any persons that, as soon as they were drowned, had swam above water?Dr. Coatsworth—I have not known such a case.Cowper—Did you ever know, Sir, a body that was otherwise killed, to float upon the water?Dr. Coatsworth—I never made any observation of that.Hatsell, Baron—Dr. Browne has a learned discourse, in hisVulgar Errors, upon this subject, concerning the floating of dead bodies; I do not understand it myself, but he hath a whole chapter about it.[46]
Cowper—Sir, I would ask you, was you not angry that Mr. Camblin would not join with you in opinion?
Dimsdale—No.
Cowper—Did you not tell him that you were a graduate physician, and was angry he would not join you?
Dimsdale—Suppose I did?
Hatsell, Baron—But did you so or no?
Dimsdale—Yes, my lord, we had some words about it.
Jones—Swear Dr. Coatsworth. (Which was done.) Now, my lord, we call these gentlemen that are doctors of skill, to know their opinions of them thatare found floating without water in them, how they came by their death.
Dr. Coatsworth—I have not seen many drowned bodies to make observation upon; but it is my opinion, that every body that is drowned, is suffocated by water passing down the windpipe into the lungs upon respiration; and at the same time, the water pressing upon the gullet, there will be a necessity of swallowing a great part of it into the stomach; I have been in danger of being drowned myself, and I was forced to swallow a great quantity of water. If a person was drowned, and taken out immediately, as soon as the suffocation was effected, I should not wonder if there were but little water in the stomach and guts; but if it lay in the water several hours, it must be very strange if the belly should not be full of water; but I will not say, it is impossible it should be otherwise.
Cowper—I desire to know, whether this gentleman attempted to drown himself, or was in danger of being drowned by accident?
Dr. Coatsworth—It was by accident: I was passing up the ship-side, and took hold of a loose rope instead of the entering rope, which failing me, I fell into the water.
Cowper—But you struggled to save yourself from drowning?
Dr. Coatsworth—I did so; I have seen several persons that have been drowned, and they have lain several days, until by fermentation they have been raised; but I never made my observations of any persons that have been drowned above six hours.
Jones—Did you ever hear of any persons that, as soon as they were drowned, had swam above water?
Dr. Coatsworth—I have not known such a case.
Cowper—Did you ever know, Sir, a body that was otherwise killed, to float upon the water?
Dr. Coatsworth—I never made any observation of that.
Hatsell, Baron—Dr. Browne has a learned discourse, in hisVulgar Errors, upon this subject, concerning the floating of dead bodies; I do not understand it myself, but he hath a whole chapter about it.[46]
Then Dr. Nailor was sworn.
Jones—We ask you the same question that Dr. Coatsworth was asked, What is your opinion of dead bodies? If a body be drowned, will it have water in it or no?Dr. Nailor—My lord, I am of opinion, that it will have a quantity if it be drowned; but if there be no water in the body, I believe that the person was dead before it was put into the water.Cowper—I would ask the doctor one question, my lord, Whether he was not a constant voter against the interest of our family in this corporation?Dr. Nailor—I never did come to give a vote but sir William Cowper, or his son, opposed me, and said I had no right to vote.Cowper—I would have asked the same question of the Dimsdales, if I had remembered it; they are of another party, as this gentleman is.Hatsell, Baron—It is not at all material, as they are witnesses. Then call Mr. Babington. (Who was sworn.)Jones—Pray, what is your opinion of this matter?Babington—I am of opinion, that all bodies that go into the water alive and are drowned, have water in them, and sink as soon as they are drowned, and do not rise so soon as this gentlewoman did.Cowper—Pray, what is your profession, Sir?Babington—I am a surgeon.Cowper—Because Mr. Jones called you doctor.Hatsell, Baron—Did you ever see any drowned bodies?Babington—Yes, my lord, once I had a gentlewoman a patient that was half an hour under water, and she lived several hours after, and in all that time she discharged a great quantity of water; I never heard of any that went alive into the water, and were drowned, that floated so soon as this gentlewoman did; I have heard so from physicians.Hatsell, Baron—I have heard so too, and that they are forced to tye a bullet to dead bodies thrown into the sea, that they might not rise again.Cowper—The reason of that is, that they should not rise again, not that they will not sink without it. But I would ask Mr. Babington, whether the gentlewoman he speaks of went into the water voluntarily, or fell in by accident?Babington—By accident, but I believe that does not alter the case.
Jones—We ask you the same question that Dr. Coatsworth was asked, What is your opinion of dead bodies? If a body be drowned, will it have water in it or no?
Dr. Nailor—My lord, I am of opinion, that it will have a quantity if it be drowned; but if there be no water in the body, I believe that the person was dead before it was put into the water.
Cowper—I would ask the doctor one question, my lord, Whether he was not a constant voter against the interest of our family in this corporation?
Dr. Nailor—I never did come to give a vote but sir William Cowper, or his son, opposed me, and said I had no right to vote.
Cowper—I would have asked the same question of the Dimsdales, if I had remembered it; they are of another party, as this gentleman is.
Hatsell, Baron—It is not at all material, as they are witnesses. Then call Mr. Babington. (Who was sworn.)
Jones—Pray, what is your opinion of this matter?
Babington—I am of opinion, that all bodies that go into the water alive and are drowned, have water in them, and sink as soon as they are drowned, and do not rise so soon as this gentlewoman did.
Cowper—Pray, what is your profession, Sir?
Babington—I am a surgeon.
Cowper—Because Mr. Jones called you doctor.
Hatsell, Baron—Did you ever see any drowned bodies?
Babington—Yes, my lord, once I had a gentlewoman a patient that was half an hour under water, and she lived several hours after, and in all that time she discharged a great quantity of water; I never heard of any that went alive into the water, and were drowned, that floated so soon as this gentlewoman did; I have heard so from physicians.
Hatsell, Baron—I have heard so too, and that they are forced to tye a bullet to dead bodies thrown into the sea, that they might not rise again.
Cowper—The reason of that is, that they should not rise again, not that they will not sink without it. But I would ask Mr. Babington, whether the gentlewoman he speaks of went into the water voluntarily, or fell in by accident?
Babington—By accident, but I believe that does not alter the case.
Dr. Burnetwas called, and expressed an opinion that if a person jumped into the water or fell in by accident they would swallow and inhale water as long as they were alive, but not afterwards; and that they would sink.
Dr. Woodhouseexpressed the same opinion.If a person had swallowed water in drowning, signs of it would be visible some time afterwards.
Jones—Call Edward Clement. (Who was sworn.) Are not you a seaman?Clement—Yes, Sir.Jones—How long have you been so?Clement—Man I have writ myself but six years, but I have used the sea nine or ten years.Jones—Have you known of any men that have been killed, and thrown into the sea, or who have fallen in and been drowned? Pray tell us the difference as to their swimming and sinking.Clement—In the year '89 or '90, in Beachy fight, I saw several thrown overboard during the engagement, but one particularly I took notice of, that was my friend, and killed by my side; I saw him swim for a considerable distance from the ship; and a ship coming under our stern, caused me to lose sight of him, but I saw several dead bodies floating at the same time; likewise in another engagement, where a man had both his legs shot off, and died instantly, they threw over his legs; though they sunk, I saw his body float: likewise I have seen several men who have died natural deaths at sea, they have when they have been dead had a considerable weight of ballast and shot made fast to them, and so were thrown overboard; because we hold it for a general rule, that all men swim if they be dead before they come into the water; and on the contrary, I have seen men when they have been drowned, that they have sunk as soon as the breath was out of their bodies, and I could see no more of them. For instance, a man fell out of theCornwall, and sunk down to rights, and seven days afterwards we weighed anchor, and he was brought up grasping his arm about the cable, and we have observed in several cases, that where men fall overboard, as soon as their breath is out of their bodies they sink downright; and on the contrary, where a dead body is thrown overboard without weight, it will swim.Jones—You have been in a fight; how do bodies float after a battle?Clement—Men float with their heads just down, and the small of their back and buttocks upwards; I have seen a great number of them, some hundreds in Beachy-head fight, when we engaged the French. I was in the oldCambridgeat that time. I saw several (what number I will not be positive, but there were a great number, I cannot guess to a score) that did really swim, and I could see them float for a considerable distance.Jones—Have you seen a shipwreck?Clement—Yes; theCoronation, in September 1691. I was then belonging to theDutchess, under the command of captain Clement; we looked out and see them taking down their masts; we saw the men walking up and down on the right side, and the ship sink down, and they swam up and down like a shoal of fish one after another; and I see them hover one upon another and see them drop away by scores at a time; and there was an account of about nineteen that saved themselves, some by boats, and others by swimming; but there were no more saved out of the ship's complement, which was between five and six hundred, and the rest I saw sinking downright, some twenty at a time. There was a fisherman brought ourcaptain word, that in laying in of his nets he drew up some men close under the rocks that were drowned belonging to theCoronation. We generally throw in bags of ballast with them.Jones—I suppose all men that are drowned, you sink them with weights?Clement—Formerly shot was allowed for that purpose; there used to be threescore weight of iron, but now it is a bag of ballast that is made fast to them.Jones—Then, you take it for a certain rule, that those that are drowned sink, but those that are thrown overboard do not?Clement—Yes; otherwise why should the government be at that vast charge to allow threescore or fourscore weight of iron to sink every man, but only that their swimming about should not be a discouragement to others?
Jones—Call Edward Clement. (Who was sworn.) Are not you a seaman?
Clement—Yes, Sir.
Jones—How long have you been so?
Clement—Man I have writ myself but six years, but I have used the sea nine or ten years.
Jones—Have you known of any men that have been killed, and thrown into the sea, or who have fallen in and been drowned? Pray tell us the difference as to their swimming and sinking.
Clement—In the year '89 or '90, in Beachy fight, I saw several thrown overboard during the engagement, but one particularly I took notice of, that was my friend, and killed by my side; I saw him swim for a considerable distance from the ship; and a ship coming under our stern, caused me to lose sight of him, but I saw several dead bodies floating at the same time; likewise in another engagement, where a man had both his legs shot off, and died instantly, they threw over his legs; though they sunk, I saw his body float: likewise I have seen several men who have died natural deaths at sea, they have when they have been dead had a considerable weight of ballast and shot made fast to them, and so were thrown overboard; because we hold it for a general rule, that all men swim if they be dead before they come into the water; and on the contrary, I have seen men when they have been drowned, that they have sunk as soon as the breath was out of their bodies, and I could see no more of them. For instance, a man fell out of theCornwall, and sunk down to rights, and seven days afterwards we weighed anchor, and he was brought up grasping his arm about the cable, and we have observed in several cases, that where men fall overboard, as soon as their breath is out of their bodies they sink downright; and on the contrary, where a dead body is thrown overboard without weight, it will swim.
Jones—You have been in a fight; how do bodies float after a battle?
Clement—Men float with their heads just down, and the small of their back and buttocks upwards; I have seen a great number of them, some hundreds in Beachy-head fight, when we engaged the French. I was in the oldCambridgeat that time. I saw several (what number I will not be positive, but there were a great number, I cannot guess to a score) that did really swim, and I could see them float for a considerable distance.
Jones—Have you seen a shipwreck?
Clement—Yes; theCoronation, in September 1691. I was then belonging to theDutchess, under the command of captain Clement; we looked out and see them taking down their masts; we saw the men walking up and down on the right side, and the ship sink down, and they swam up and down like a shoal of fish one after another; and I see them hover one upon another and see them drop away by scores at a time; and there was an account of about nineteen that saved themselves, some by boats, and others by swimming; but there were no more saved out of the ship's complement, which was between five and six hundred, and the rest I saw sinking downright, some twenty at a time. There was a fisherman brought ourcaptain word, that in laying in of his nets he drew up some men close under the rocks that were drowned belonging to theCoronation. We generally throw in bags of ballast with them.
Jones—I suppose all men that are drowned, you sink them with weights?
Clement—Formerly shot was allowed for that purpose; there used to be threescore weight of iron, but now it is a bag of ballast that is made fast to them.
Jones—Then, you take it for a certain rule, that those that are drowned sink, but those that are thrown overboard do not?
Clement—Yes; otherwise why should the government be at that vast charge to allow threescore or fourscore weight of iron to sink every man, but only that their swimming about should not be a discouragement to others?
Then Richard Gin was sworn.
Jones—You hear the question; pray what do you say to it?Gin—I was at sea a great while, and all the men that I see turned overboard had a great weight at their heels to sink them.Jones—Then will they swim otherwise?Gin—So they say.Jones—Are you a seaman?Gin—I went against my will in two fights.Jones—Then, gentlemen of the jury, I hope we have given you satisfaction that Mrs. Stout did not drown herself, but was carried into the water after she was killed. That was the first question; for if it be true that all dead bodies when they are put into the water do swim, and the bodies that go alive into the water and aredrowned do sink, this is sufficient evidence that she came by her death not by drowning, but some other way. Now, my lord, as to the second matter, and that is to give such evidence as we have against these gentlemen at the bar. Mr. Cowper, it appears, was the last man that any one give an account of was in her company. What became of her afterwards, or where they went, nobody can tell; but the other witnesses have given you evidence that he was the last man that was with her. I shall only give this further evidence as to Mr. Cowper, that notwithstanding all the civility and kindnesses that passed between him and this family, when the bruit and noise of this fact was spread abroad, Mr. Cowper did not come to consider and consult with old Mrs. Stout what was to be done; but he took no manner of notice of it, and the next day he rode out of town, without further taking notice of it. CallGeorge AldridgeandJohn Archer.
Jones—You hear the question; pray what do you say to it?
Gin—I was at sea a great while, and all the men that I see turned overboard had a great weight at their heels to sink them.
Jones—Then will they swim otherwise?
Gin—So they say.
Jones—Are you a seaman?
Gin—I went against my will in two fights.
Jones—Then, gentlemen of the jury, I hope we have given you satisfaction that Mrs. Stout did not drown herself, but was carried into the water after she was killed. That was the first question; for if it be true that all dead bodies when they are put into the water do swim, and the bodies that go alive into the water and aredrowned do sink, this is sufficient evidence that she came by her death not by drowning, but some other way. Now, my lord, as to the second matter, and that is to give such evidence as we have against these gentlemen at the bar. Mr. Cowper, it appears, was the last man that any one give an account of was in her company. What became of her afterwards, or where they went, nobody can tell; but the other witnesses have given you evidence that he was the last man that was with her. I shall only give this further evidence as to Mr. Cowper, that notwithstanding all the civility and kindnesses that passed between him and this family, when the bruit and noise of this fact was spread abroad, Mr. Cowper did not come to consider and consult with old Mrs. Stout what was to be done; but he took no manner of notice of it, and the next day he rode out of town, without further taking notice of it. CallGeorge AldridgeandJohn Archer.
John Archer was sworn.
Jones—Do you know anything of Mr. Cowper's going out of town about this business of Mrs. Stout's being drowned?Archer—Yes, I did see him go out of town afterwards.Jones—Which way did he go?Archer—He went the way back from the Glove; I suppose he came that way.Cowper—What day was it I went? Is it not the way that I used to go when I go the Circuit into Essex?Archer—Yes, I believe so.Cowper—I lodged at Mr. Barefoot's, and he has aback-door to the Glove, where my horse was, and I went the direct way into Essex, and it was Wednesday morning: What day was it you see me go?Archer—It was on the Wednesday morning.Cowper—That was the very day I went into Essex.
Jones—Do you know anything of Mr. Cowper's going out of town about this business of Mrs. Stout's being drowned?
Archer—Yes, I did see him go out of town afterwards.
Jones—Which way did he go?
Archer—He went the way back from the Glove; I suppose he came that way.
Cowper—What day was it I went? Is it not the way that I used to go when I go the Circuit into Essex?
Archer—Yes, I believe so.
Cowper—I lodged at Mr. Barefoot's, and he has aback-door to the Glove, where my horse was, and I went the direct way into Essex, and it was Wednesday morning: What day was it you see me go?
Archer—It was on the Wednesday morning.
Cowper—That was the very day I went into Essex.
Then George Aldridge was sworn.
Jones—When did Mr. Cowper go out of town the last assizes?Aldridge—On Wednesday.Jones—Which way did he go?Aldridge—He went the way to Chelmsford.Jones—Did you not fetch his horse from Stout's?Aldridge—Yes, sir.Jones—How often did you go for it?Aldridge—Three times.Jones—When?Aldridge—On Tuesday night I sent once, and went twice myself; the first time there was nobody at home to deliver the horse; so I went to Mr. Stout's, and asked him about the horse, and he said he could not deliver him till the maid went home; and then I went about eleven o'clock and had the horse.Hatsell, Baron—Was it eleven at night?Aldridge—Yes, my lord.Cowper—When I sent you to fetch my horse, what directions did I give you?Aldridge—You gave me directions to fetch your horse, because you said you should have occasion to go out next morning betimes with the judge.Cowper—The reason I sent for my horse was this; when I heard she had drowned herself, I think it concerned me in prudence to send a common hostlerfor him, for fear the lord of the manor should seize all that was there as forfeited.[47]Hatsell, Baron—There was no danger of that, for she was foundNon compos mentis.Cowper—No, my lord, I sent before the verdict.Jones—It seems you did not think fit to go and take horse there yourself, though you put your horse there.Now, my lord, we will go on, and give the other evidence that we opened concerning these three other gentlemen that came to town; two of them took lodgings at Gurrey's at five in the afternoon, but did not come in till between eleven and twelve, and then they brought another in with them; and though he had been in town five or six hours, his feet were wet in his shoes, and his head was of a reeky sweat; he had been at some hard labour I believe, and not drinking himself into such a sweat.CallJohn Gurrey,Matthew Gurrey, andElizabeth Gurrey.
Jones—When did Mr. Cowper go out of town the last assizes?
Aldridge—On Wednesday.
Jones—Which way did he go?
Aldridge—He went the way to Chelmsford.
Jones—Did you not fetch his horse from Stout's?
Aldridge—Yes, sir.
Jones—How often did you go for it?
Aldridge—Three times.
Jones—When?
Aldridge—On Tuesday night I sent once, and went twice myself; the first time there was nobody at home to deliver the horse; so I went to Mr. Stout's, and asked him about the horse, and he said he could not deliver him till the maid went home; and then I went about eleven o'clock and had the horse.
Hatsell, Baron—Was it eleven at night?
Aldridge—Yes, my lord.
Cowper—When I sent you to fetch my horse, what directions did I give you?
Aldridge—You gave me directions to fetch your horse, because you said you should have occasion to go out next morning betimes with the judge.
Cowper—The reason I sent for my horse was this; when I heard she had drowned herself, I think it concerned me in prudence to send a common hostlerfor him, for fear the lord of the manor should seize all that was there as forfeited.[47]
Hatsell, Baron—There was no danger of that, for she was foundNon compos mentis.
Cowper—No, my lord, I sent before the verdict.
Jones—It seems you did not think fit to go and take horse there yourself, though you put your horse there.
Now, my lord, we will go on, and give the other evidence that we opened concerning these three other gentlemen that came to town; two of them took lodgings at Gurrey's at five in the afternoon, but did not come in till between eleven and twelve, and then they brought another in with them; and though he had been in town five or six hours, his feet were wet in his shoes, and his head was of a reeky sweat; he had been at some hard labour I believe, and not drinking himself into such a sweat.
CallJohn Gurrey,Matthew Gurrey, andElizabeth Gurrey.
John Gurrey was sworn.
Jones—Do you know any of the gentlemen at the bar?J. Gurrey—Yes.Jones—Name who you know.J. Gurrey—There is Mr. Stephens, Mr. Rogers, and Mr. Marson.Jones—Pray do you remember when they took lodging at your house?J. Gurrey—The last assizes; when they first came, there was only Mr. Stephens and Mr. Rogers.Jones—At what time did they take it?J. Gurrey—I was at church, and cannot tell that, they hired the lodgings of my wife.Jones—What can you say more?J. Gurrey—I was in at night when they came; there came three of them at eleven at night, whereof Mr. Marson was the third person and he said he was destitute of a lodging and he asked for a spare bed; my wife told him she had one, but had let it; whereupon Mr. Stevens and Mr. Rogers said he should lodge with them; so they went up altogether, and they called for a fire to be kindled, and asked for the landlord, which was I, and they asked me to fetch a bottle of wine, and I told them I would fetch a quart, which I did, and then they asked me to sit down and drink with them, which I did; and then they asked me if one Mrs. Sarah Stout did not live in the town, and whether she was a fortune? I said Yes. Then they said they did not know how to come to the sight of her; and I said I would shew them her to-morrow morning, not questioning but I might see her sometime as she was coming down the street; so they said they would go to see her. Mr. Rogers and Mr. Stephens charged Mr. Marson with being her old sweet-heart; saith Mr. Marson, she hath thrown me off, but a friend of mine will be even with her by this time.Hatsell, Baron—What o'clock was it then?J. Gurrey—I reckon eleven of the clock when they came in.Hatsell, Baron—Did you observe in what condition Mr. Marson was in?J. Gurrey—I did not observe, only that he was hot, and put by his wig; I see his head was wet, and he said he was just come from London, and that made him in such a heat.Jones—Had he shoes or boots on?J. Gurrey—I did not observe that.Jones—What did they do the next day?J. Gurrey—The next morning I heard this party was in the water; I sat up all night, and was fain to wait till my daughter came down to look after the shop; and then I went to see her, and she removed into the barn, and they were wiping her face, closing her eyes, and putting up her jaws; and as I came back these persons were walking, and I met Mr. Marson and Mr. Stephens, and told them the news; said I, this person has come to a sad accident: say they, so we hear; but nevertheless we will be as good as our word, and go and see her. I went with them and overtook Mr. Rogers; and Marson said we are going to see Mrs. Stout. 'O landlord!' said Rogers, 'you may take up that rogue' (pointing at Mr. Marson) 'for what he said last night'; but I did not think, they speaking so jocularly, that there was any suspicion of their being concerned in the murder. A second time I went, the barn-door was locked; I knocked, and they opened it, and let us in, and they uncovered her face to let me see her, and I touched her; and looking about for them they were gone, and I cannot say they see her or touched her: Then Mr. Marson and they were consulting how to send a great-coat to London, and I directed them to a coachman at the Bell-inn; but I did not hear he went to enquire after the coachman; then they went to your lordship's chamber, and I went home; and about eleven o'clock I sawMr. Marson and Mr. Stephens coming down with Mr. Spencer Cowper.Marson—I did not go out that night after I came in.Jones—No; we agree that. Did you see Mr. Cowper and these gentlemen together?J. Gurrey—Only at eleven o'clock on Tuesday noon, Mr. Cowper, Mr. Marson, and Mr. Stephens were coming down to the market place.Jones—Did not they take their leave of you when they went away from you that forenoon?J. Gurrey—No; only in the morning they told me they would send me word at noon if they intended to lodge there.Marson—I desire to know of Mr. Gurrey, if his sister was not in the room when we came in?J. Gurrey—She was in our house that day; but whether when they came in I cannot tell.Cowper—Pray, have you not had some discourse with your sister, the widow Davis, concerning some suspicion that you had of Sarah Walker, that hath been produced as a witness?J. Gurrey—I do not remember any such.Cowper—Then did not you say these words, We must not concern ourselves with Sarah Walker, for she is the only witness against the Cowpers?J. Gurrey—I cannot remember any such thing.Hatsell, Baron—You may answer according to the best of what you remember; if you say you have forgot when you have not, you are forsworn.Cowper—If your lordship pleases to give leave to Mr. Gurrey to recollect himself, I ask him, Whether he did not talk with his sister Davis about some suspicion his wife and he had about Sarah Walker, the maid-servant of the deceased?J. Gurrey—I believe there might be some talk of a person that was seen to go into the churchyard at some distance with Sarah Walker.Cowper—Did your wife say that she did suspect that person?J. Gurrey—Yes.Cowper—Did your wife say they behaved themselves strangely, and that she would have persuaded the widow Blewit to have watched her?J. Gurrey—There was something of that.Cowper—Was there not some such words, that they must not meddle with Sarah Walker, for she is the witness against the Cowpers?J. Gurrey—I said, Do not concern yourself with Sarah Walker, for fear of taking off her evidence.Cowper—Pray did not the widow Davis warm the sheets for these gentlemen?J. Gurrey—She was with my wife, but I cannot say whether she warmed the sheets.Cowper—When they came home, had you any lodgers that wanted to come home? Had not you one Gape?J. Gurrey—I cannot say whether he was in before or after them.Cowper—Did not you say to your sister Davis, Now these gentlemen are in bed, if Mr. Gape would come home, our family would be quiet?J. Gurrey—I do not remember that.Cowper—Pray, did not you go to look for Mr. Gape?J. Gurrey—Yes, I went to Hockley's.Cowper—Who did you employ to speak to Mr. Gape?J. Gurrey—Mrs. Hockley.Cowper—When you came home to your own house,and after you had been at Hockley's to speak with Mr. Gape, what account did you give of the time of night, and other particulars?J. Gurrey—I gave no account of the time.Cowper—Not to Mrs. Davis?J. Gurrey—I cannot tell whether I did or no.Cowper—Did not you say, Mr. Gape asked Mrs. Hockley what a-clock it was?J. Gurrey—No, I do not remember that; but Mrs. Hockley went in, and told him what time of night it was; it was eleven or twelve of the clock, which I cannot say.Jones—Call Martha Gurrey. (Who was sworn.) Which of these gentlemen do you know?Mrs. Gurrey—Mr. Marson, Mr. Rogers, and Mr. Stephens.Jones—What time of the night was it when they came to your house? give an account of it, and what you heard them say.Mrs. Gurrey—It was a little after five, or thereabouts that they came.Jones—Who came?Mrs. Gurrey—Mr. Stephens, and Mr. Rogers, and there was one Mr. Gilbert, that married a first cousin of mine; he came and asked me for my husband; and I asked him his business, and he said he wanted to speak to him.Jones—Pray come to these men; when did they come to your house?Mrs. Gurrey—They hired the lodging at five of the clock. When they first came to see them I was not at home; Mr. Gilbert brought them, and as I was coming along the street I saw Mr. Gilbert walking off, and would not look at me.Jones—When did they go out?Mrs. Gurrey—They never staid there.Jones—When did they come in again?Mrs. Gurrey—Between eleven and twelve.Hatsell, Baron—What did they do when they came again?Mrs. Gurrey—I was laying on some sheets two pairs of stairs when they came, and then there was three of them; so they saw me a little after, and begged my excuse for bringing in another, for they said it was so late that they could not get a lodging any where else: and said, if I thought fit, the gentleman should lie with them: And I told them I liked it very well.Jones—What firing had they?Mrs. Gurrey—The firing I laid on in the morning, and they sent for my husband to fetch them some wine.Jones—What did you hear them talk on?Mrs. Gurrey—They discoursed with my husband, and asked him if he knew Mrs. Sarah Stout; and one of them said to Mr. Marson, I think she was an old sweetheart of yours; Ay, said he, but she turned me off, but a friend of mine is even with her: And Mr. Rogers said he was in with her; and afterwards said, her business was done. They had a bundle, that was wrapt up in pure white cloth, like to an apron, but I cannot say it was an apron; and there was a parcel hanging loose by it; and when he laid it down he said, he would pass his word Mrs. Sarah Stout's courting days were over; and I said, I hoped it was no hurt to the gentlewoman; and then I looking upon Mr. Marson, saw him put his peruke aside, and his head reeked, and he told them he was but just come fromLondon that night, which made him disappointed of a lodging.Jones—What did you hear them say about any money?Mrs. Gurrey—I asked them how they would have their bed warmed? And Mr. Marson answered, very hot: With that I went down to send my daughter up, and she could not go presently; I told her then she must go as soon as she could.Hatsell, Baron—Pray, do not tell us what passed between you and your daughter: What do you know of these gentlemen?Mrs. Gurrey—I went to the next room, to see if every thing was as it should be; I hearkened, and they had some discourse about money, and I heard somebody (I do not know who it should be except it were Mr. Stephens) answer and say, the use money was paid to-night; but what money they meant I cannot tell.Jones—What did you find when they were gone?Mrs. Gurrey—Sir, I found a cord at the end of the trunk.Jones—Was it there in the morning, or before they came?Mrs. Gurrey—No, it could not have been, for I swept my room, and wiped down the dust.Jones—Was the cord white?Mrs. Gurrey—No, it was more dirty than it is now, for my husband and I have worn it in our pockets.Cowper—Pray, who brought the cord down from above stairs?Mrs. Gurrey—My daughter that lived with me, and she laid it upon the shelf.Cowper—Did not you hear there was a coroner's inquest sitting?Mrs. Gurrey—The next day at night I did hear of it.Cowper—Why did not you go to the coroner's inquest and give an account of it there?Mrs. Gurrey—I told my husband of it, and I asked my husband if he did not hear what they said concerning Mrs. Sarah Stout? And he answered, yes, they ought to be taken up for the words they said last night: Why, saith I, do not you take notice of it? I think you ought to take them up. But he went out of doors, and I saw no more of him till the afternoon. When I heard the words, I thought somebody had stole away and got to bed to her.Cowper—Pray, if your husband heard these words, why did not he go to the coroner's inquest?Mrs. Gurrey—I did speak to him to have them taken up.Cowper—Why did he not do it?Mrs. Gurrey—He said he would not do it, he did not know but it might cost him his life.Jones—How came you after this to discover it?Mrs. Gurrey—Because I was so troubled in mind I could not rest night nor day; and I told him if he would not tell of it, I would tell of it myself, for I was not able to live.
Jones—Do you know any of the gentlemen at the bar?
J. Gurrey—Yes.
Jones—Name who you know.
J. Gurrey—There is Mr. Stephens, Mr. Rogers, and Mr. Marson.
Jones—Pray do you remember when they took lodging at your house?
J. Gurrey—The last assizes; when they first came, there was only Mr. Stephens and Mr. Rogers.
Jones—At what time did they take it?
J. Gurrey—I was at church, and cannot tell that, they hired the lodgings of my wife.
Jones—What can you say more?
J. Gurrey—I was in at night when they came; there came three of them at eleven at night, whereof Mr. Marson was the third person and he said he was destitute of a lodging and he asked for a spare bed; my wife told him she had one, but had let it; whereupon Mr. Stevens and Mr. Rogers said he should lodge with them; so they went up altogether, and they called for a fire to be kindled, and asked for the landlord, which was I, and they asked me to fetch a bottle of wine, and I told them I would fetch a quart, which I did, and then they asked me to sit down and drink with them, which I did; and then they asked me if one Mrs. Sarah Stout did not live in the town, and whether she was a fortune? I said Yes. Then they said they did not know how to come to the sight of her; and I said I would shew them her to-morrow morning, not questioning but I might see her sometime as she was coming down the street; so they said they would go to see her. Mr. Rogers and Mr. Stephens charged Mr. Marson with being her old sweet-heart; saith Mr. Marson, she hath thrown me off, but a friend of mine will be even with her by this time.
Hatsell, Baron—What o'clock was it then?
J. Gurrey—I reckon eleven of the clock when they came in.
Hatsell, Baron—Did you observe in what condition Mr. Marson was in?
J. Gurrey—I did not observe, only that he was hot, and put by his wig; I see his head was wet, and he said he was just come from London, and that made him in such a heat.
Jones—Had he shoes or boots on?
J. Gurrey—I did not observe that.
Jones—What did they do the next day?
J. Gurrey—The next morning I heard this party was in the water; I sat up all night, and was fain to wait till my daughter came down to look after the shop; and then I went to see her, and she removed into the barn, and they were wiping her face, closing her eyes, and putting up her jaws; and as I came back these persons were walking, and I met Mr. Marson and Mr. Stephens, and told them the news; said I, this person has come to a sad accident: say they, so we hear; but nevertheless we will be as good as our word, and go and see her. I went with them and overtook Mr. Rogers; and Marson said we are going to see Mrs. Stout. 'O landlord!' said Rogers, 'you may take up that rogue' (pointing at Mr. Marson) 'for what he said last night'; but I did not think, they speaking so jocularly, that there was any suspicion of their being concerned in the murder. A second time I went, the barn-door was locked; I knocked, and they opened it, and let us in, and they uncovered her face to let me see her, and I touched her; and looking about for them they were gone, and I cannot say they see her or touched her: Then Mr. Marson and they were consulting how to send a great-coat to London, and I directed them to a coachman at the Bell-inn; but I did not hear he went to enquire after the coachman; then they went to your lordship's chamber, and I went home; and about eleven o'clock I sawMr. Marson and Mr. Stephens coming down with Mr. Spencer Cowper.
Marson—I did not go out that night after I came in.
Jones—No; we agree that. Did you see Mr. Cowper and these gentlemen together?
J. Gurrey—Only at eleven o'clock on Tuesday noon, Mr. Cowper, Mr. Marson, and Mr. Stephens were coming down to the market place.
Jones—Did not they take their leave of you when they went away from you that forenoon?
J. Gurrey—No; only in the morning they told me they would send me word at noon if they intended to lodge there.
Marson—I desire to know of Mr. Gurrey, if his sister was not in the room when we came in?
J. Gurrey—She was in our house that day; but whether when they came in I cannot tell.
Cowper—Pray, have you not had some discourse with your sister, the widow Davis, concerning some suspicion that you had of Sarah Walker, that hath been produced as a witness?
J. Gurrey—I do not remember any such.
Cowper—Then did not you say these words, We must not concern ourselves with Sarah Walker, for she is the only witness against the Cowpers?
J. Gurrey—I cannot remember any such thing.
Hatsell, Baron—You may answer according to the best of what you remember; if you say you have forgot when you have not, you are forsworn.
Cowper—If your lordship pleases to give leave to Mr. Gurrey to recollect himself, I ask him, Whether he did not talk with his sister Davis about some suspicion his wife and he had about Sarah Walker, the maid-servant of the deceased?
J. Gurrey—I believe there might be some talk of a person that was seen to go into the churchyard at some distance with Sarah Walker.
Cowper—Did your wife say that she did suspect that person?
J. Gurrey—Yes.
Cowper—Did your wife say they behaved themselves strangely, and that she would have persuaded the widow Blewit to have watched her?
J. Gurrey—There was something of that.
Cowper—Was there not some such words, that they must not meddle with Sarah Walker, for she is the witness against the Cowpers?
J. Gurrey—I said, Do not concern yourself with Sarah Walker, for fear of taking off her evidence.
Cowper—Pray did not the widow Davis warm the sheets for these gentlemen?
J. Gurrey—She was with my wife, but I cannot say whether she warmed the sheets.
Cowper—When they came home, had you any lodgers that wanted to come home? Had not you one Gape?
J. Gurrey—I cannot say whether he was in before or after them.
Cowper—Did not you say to your sister Davis, Now these gentlemen are in bed, if Mr. Gape would come home, our family would be quiet?
J. Gurrey—I do not remember that.
Cowper—Pray, did not you go to look for Mr. Gape?
J. Gurrey—Yes, I went to Hockley's.
Cowper—Who did you employ to speak to Mr. Gape?
J. Gurrey—Mrs. Hockley.
Cowper—When you came home to your own house,and after you had been at Hockley's to speak with Mr. Gape, what account did you give of the time of night, and other particulars?
J. Gurrey—I gave no account of the time.
Cowper—Not to Mrs. Davis?
J. Gurrey—I cannot tell whether I did or no.
Cowper—Did not you say, Mr. Gape asked Mrs. Hockley what a-clock it was?
J. Gurrey—No, I do not remember that; but Mrs. Hockley went in, and told him what time of night it was; it was eleven or twelve of the clock, which I cannot say.
Jones—Call Martha Gurrey. (Who was sworn.) Which of these gentlemen do you know?
Mrs. Gurrey—Mr. Marson, Mr. Rogers, and Mr. Stephens.
Jones—What time of the night was it when they came to your house? give an account of it, and what you heard them say.
Mrs. Gurrey—It was a little after five, or thereabouts that they came.
Jones—Who came?
Mrs. Gurrey—Mr. Stephens, and Mr. Rogers, and there was one Mr. Gilbert, that married a first cousin of mine; he came and asked me for my husband; and I asked him his business, and he said he wanted to speak to him.
Jones—Pray come to these men; when did they come to your house?
Mrs. Gurrey—They hired the lodging at five of the clock. When they first came to see them I was not at home; Mr. Gilbert brought them, and as I was coming along the street I saw Mr. Gilbert walking off, and would not look at me.
Jones—When did they go out?
Mrs. Gurrey—They never staid there.
Jones—When did they come in again?
Mrs. Gurrey—Between eleven and twelve.
Hatsell, Baron—What did they do when they came again?
Mrs. Gurrey—I was laying on some sheets two pairs of stairs when they came, and then there was three of them; so they saw me a little after, and begged my excuse for bringing in another, for they said it was so late that they could not get a lodging any where else: and said, if I thought fit, the gentleman should lie with them: And I told them I liked it very well.
Jones—What firing had they?
Mrs. Gurrey—The firing I laid on in the morning, and they sent for my husband to fetch them some wine.
Jones—What did you hear them talk on?
Mrs. Gurrey—They discoursed with my husband, and asked him if he knew Mrs. Sarah Stout; and one of them said to Mr. Marson, I think she was an old sweetheart of yours; Ay, said he, but she turned me off, but a friend of mine is even with her: And Mr. Rogers said he was in with her; and afterwards said, her business was done. They had a bundle, that was wrapt up in pure white cloth, like to an apron, but I cannot say it was an apron; and there was a parcel hanging loose by it; and when he laid it down he said, he would pass his word Mrs. Sarah Stout's courting days were over; and I said, I hoped it was no hurt to the gentlewoman; and then I looking upon Mr. Marson, saw him put his peruke aside, and his head reeked, and he told them he was but just come fromLondon that night, which made him disappointed of a lodging.
Jones—What did you hear them say about any money?
Mrs. Gurrey—I asked them how they would have their bed warmed? And Mr. Marson answered, very hot: With that I went down to send my daughter up, and she could not go presently; I told her then she must go as soon as she could.
Hatsell, Baron—Pray, do not tell us what passed between you and your daughter: What do you know of these gentlemen?
Mrs. Gurrey—I went to the next room, to see if every thing was as it should be; I hearkened, and they had some discourse about money, and I heard somebody (I do not know who it should be except it were Mr. Stephens) answer and say, the use money was paid to-night; but what money they meant I cannot tell.
Jones—What did you find when they were gone?
Mrs. Gurrey—Sir, I found a cord at the end of the trunk.
Jones—Was it there in the morning, or before they came?
Mrs. Gurrey—No, it could not have been, for I swept my room, and wiped down the dust.
Jones—Was the cord white?
Mrs. Gurrey—No, it was more dirty than it is now, for my husband and I have worn it in our pockets.
Cowper—Pray, who brought the cord down from above stairs?
Mrs. Gurrey—My daughter that lived with me, and she laid it upon the shelf.
Cowper—Did not you hear there was a coroner's inquest sitting?
Mrs. Gurrey—The next day at night I did hear of it.
Cowper—Why did not you go to the coroner's inquest and give an account of it there?
Mrs. Gurrey—I told my husband of it, and I asked my husband if he did not hear what they said concerning Mrs. Sarah Stout? And he answered, yes, they ought to be taken up for the words they said last night: Why, saith I, do not you take notice of it? I think you ought to take them up. But he went out of doors, and I saw no more of him till the afternoon. When I heard the words, I thought somebody had stole away and got to bed to her.
Cowper—Pray, if your husband heard these words, why did not he go to the coroner's inquest?
Mrs. Gurrey—I did speak to him to have them taken up.
Cowper—Why did he not do it?
Mrs. Gurrey—He said he would not do it, he did not know but it might cost him his life.
Jones—How came you after this to discover it?
Mrs. Gurrey—Because I was so troubled in mind I could not rest night nor day; and I told him if he would not tell of it, I would tell of it myself, for I was not able to live.
Elizabeth Gurrey was sworn.