The Disputation between John Knox and the Secretary.
John Knox.If such as fear God have occasion to praise Him because idolatry is maintained, the servants of God are despised, wicked men are placed again in honour and authority, and, finally, because vice and impiety overflow this whole realm without punishment, then have we occasion to rejoice and to praise God. But if those and the like actions are wont to provoke God's vengeance against realms and nations, then, in my judgment, the godly within Scotland ought to lament and mourn; and so to prevent[234]God's judgments, lest He, finding all in a like security, strike in His hot indignation, perchance beginning at such as think they offend not.
Lethington.That is a head wherein ye and I never agreed; for how are ye able to prove that ever God struck or plagued a nation or people for the iniquity of their prince, if they themselves lived godly?
Knox.I looked, my Lord, to have audience, until I had absolved the other two parts; but seeing that it pleases your Lordship to cut me off before the midst, I will answer your question. The Scripture of God teaches me that Jerusalem and Judah were punished for the sin of Manasseh; and if ye will allege that they were punished because they were wicked, and offended with their king, and not because their king was wicked, I answer that, albeit the Spirit of God makes for me, saying in express words, "For the sin of Manasseh," yet will I not be so obstinate as to lay the whole sin, and the plagues that followed, upon the king, and utterly absolve the people. I will grant you that the whole people offended with the king: but how, and in what fashion, I fear that ye and I shall not agree. I doubt not but that thegreat multitude accompanied him in all the abominations which he did; for idolatry and a false religion have ever been, are, and will be pleasing to the most part of men. To affirm that all Judah committed really the acts of his impiety, is but to affirm that which neither has certainty, nor yet appearance of truth. Who can think it possible that all those of Jerusalem should so shortly turn to external idolatry, considering the notable reformation in the days of Hezekiah, a short time before? But yet, the text says, "Manasseh made Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem to err." True it is; for the one part willingly followed him in his idolatry, and the other, by reason of his authority, suffered him to defile Jerusalem, and the temple of God, with all abominations. So were they all criminal for his sin; the one by act and deed, the other by suffering and permission. Even so, all Scotland is guilty this day of the Queen's idolatry, and ye, my Lords, especially, above all others.
Lethington.Well, that is the chief head wherein we never agreed; but of that we shall speak hereafter. What will ye say as touching the moving of the people to have a good opinion of the Queen's Majesty, and as concerning obedience to be given to her authority, as also of the form of the prayer which commonly ye use, and so on?
Knox.My Lord, a good conscience will not suffer me to move the people more earnestly, or to pray otherwise than heretofore I have done. He who knows the secrets of hearts knows that, privately and publicly, I have called to God for the Queen's conversion, and have willed the people to do the same, showing them the dangerous estate wherein not only she herself stands, but also the whole realm, by the reason of her indurate blindness.
Lethington.That is exactly wherein we find greatest fault. Your extremity against the Queen's Mass, in particular, passes measure. Ye call her a slave to Satan; ye affirm that God's vengeance hangs over the realm by reason of her impiety; and what is this else but to rouse up the heart of the people against Her Majesty, and against them that serve her?
There was heard an exclamation from the rest of the flatterers that such extremity could not profit. The Master of Maxwell said in plain words, "If I were in the Queen's Majesty's place, I would not suffer such things as I hear."
Knox.If the words of preachers shall always be wrested to the worst construction, then will it be hard to speak of anything so circumspectly (provided that the truth be spoken) that it shall not escape the censure of the calumniator. The most vehement, and, as ye put it, excessive manner of prayer that I use in public is this, "O Lord, if it be Thy pleasure, purge the heart of the Queen's Majesty from the venom of idolatry, and deliver her from the bondage and thraldom of Satan in which she has been brought up, and yet remains, for the lack of true doctrine; and let her see, by the illumination of Thy Holy Spirit, that there is no means to please Thee but by Jesus Christ, Thy only Son, and that Jesus Christ cannot be found but in Thy holy Word, nor yet received but as it prescribes; which is, to renounce our own wisdom and preconceived opinion, and worship Thee as Thou commandest; that in so doing she may avoid that eternal damnation which abides all who are obstinate and impenitent unto the end; and that this poor realm may also escape that plague and vengeance which inevitably follow idolatry, maintained against Thy manifest Word and the open light thereof." This, said he, is the form of my common prayer, as yourselves can witness. Now, I would hear what is worthy of reprehension in it.
Lethington.There are three things that I never liked. The first is that ye pray for the Queen's Majesty with a condition, saying, "Illuminate her heart, if it be Thy good pleasure." It may appear from these words that ye doubt of her conversion. Where have ye the example of such prayer?
Knox.Wheresoever the examples are, I am assured of the rule, which is this, If we shall ask anything according to His will, He shall hear us; and our Master, Christ Jesus, commanded us to pray unto our Father, "Thy will be done."
Lethington.But where do ye ever find one of the Prophets so to have prayed?
Knox.It sufficeth me, my Lord, that the Master and Teacher of both Prophets and Apostles has taught me so to pray.
Lethington.But, in so doing, ye put a doubt in the people's head concerning her conversion.
Knox.Not I, my Lord. Her own obstinate rebellion causes more than me to doubt of her conversion.
Lethington.Wherein rebels she against God?
Knox.In all the actions of her life, but in these two heads especially; firstly, she will not hear the preaching of the blessed Evangel of Jesus Christ; and, secondly, she maintains that idol, the Mass.
Lethington.She does not think that rebellion, but good religion.
Knox.So thought they that at one time offered their children to Moloch; and yet the Spirit of God affirms that they offered them unto devils, and not unto God. This day the Turks think they have a better religion than that of the Papists. I think ye will excuse neither of them from committing rebellion against God: nor can ye justly excuse the Queen, unless ye make God to be partial.
Lethington.But yet, why pray ye not for her, without moving any doubt?
Knox.Because I have learned to pray in faith. Now faith, ye know, depends upon the words of God, and the Word teaches me that prayers profit the sons and daughters of God's election. Whether she be one of these or not, I have just cause to doubt; and, therefore, I pray God "illuminate her heart," if it be His good pleasure.
Lethington.But yet ye can produce the example of none that so has prayed before you.
Knox.I have already answered that; but yet, for further declaration, I will demand a question. Do ye think that the Apostles prayed themselves as they commanded others to pray?
"Who doubts of that?" said the whole company that were present.
Knox.Well then, I am assured that Peter said these words to Simon Magus, "Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray to God, that, if it be possible, the thought of your heart may be forgiven thee." Here we may plainly see that Peter joins a condition with his commandment that Simon should repent and pray, to wit, if it were possible that his sin might be forgiven; for he was not ignorant that some sins were unto the death, and so without all hope of repentance or remission. Think ye not, my Lord Secretary, there may touch my heart, concerning the Queen's conversion, the same doubt that then touched the heart of the Apostle?
Lethington.I would never hear you or any other call that in doubt.
Knox.But your will is no assurance to my conscience. And, to speak freely, my Lord, I wonder if ye yourself doubt not of the Queen's conversion; for more evident signs of induration[235]have appeared, and still do appear in her, than outwardly Peter could have espied in Simon Magus. Albeit at one time he had been a sorcerer, he joined with the Apostles, believed, and was baptized; and albeit the venom of avarice remained in his heart, and he would have bought the Holy Ghost, yet, when he heard the fearful threatenings of God pronounced against him, he trembled, desired the assistance of the prayers of the Apostles, and humbled himself like a true penitent, so far as the judgment of man could pierce, and yet we see that Peter doubted of his conversion. Why then may not all the godly justly doubt of the conversion of the Queen, who has practised idolatry (which is no less odious in the sight of God than is the other) and still continues in the same, yea, who despises all threatenings, and refuses all godly admonitions?
Lethington.Why say ye that she refuses admonition? She will gladly hear any man.
Knox.But what obedience, to God or to His Word, ensues of all that is spoken to her? Or when shall she be seen to give her presence to the public preaching?
Lethington.I think never, so long as she is thus treated.
Knox.And so long ye and all others must be content that I pray, so that I may be assured of being heard by my God, that His good will may be done, either in making her comfortable to His Kirk, or, if He has appointed her to be a scourge to it, that we may have patience, and she may be bridled.
Lethington.Well let us come to the second head. Where find ye that the Scripture calls any the bond slaves to Satan? or that the Prophets of God speak so irreverently of kings and princes?
Knox.The Scripture says, that "by nature we are all the sons of wrath." Our Master, Christ Jesus, affirms, that "such as do sin are servants to sin," and that it is the only Son of God that sets men at freedom. Now, what difference there is betwixt the sons of wrath, and the servants of sin, and the slaves to the Devil, I understand not, except I be taught. If the sharpness of the term offend you, I have not invented that phrase of speech, but have learned it out of God's Scripture; for those words I find spoken unto Paul, "Behold, I send thee to the Gentiles, to open their eyes, that they may turn from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God." Mark these words, my Lord, and sturr not at the speaking of the Holy Ghost. The same Apostle, writing to his scholar Timothy, says, "Instruct with meekness those that are contrary minded, if God at any time will give them repentance, that they may know the truth, and that they may come to amendment, out of the snare of the Devil, which are taken of him at his will." If your Lordship rightly considers these sentences, ye shall not only find my words to be the words of the Holy Ghost, but also that the condition which I use to add, has the assurance of God's Scriptures.
Lethington.But they spake nothing against kings in especial, and yet your continual crying is, "The Queen's idolatry, the Queen's Mass, will provoke God's vengeance!"
Knox.In the former sentences I hear not kings and queens excepted, but all unfaithful are pronounced to stand in one rank, and to be in bondage to one tyrant, the Devil. But belike, my Lord, ye little regard the estate wherein they stand, when ye would have them so flattered, that the dangerthereof should neither be known nor declared to the poor people.
Lethington.Where will ye find that any of the Prophets did so entreat kings and queens, rulers or magistrates?
Knox.In more places than one. Ahab was a king, and Jezebel was a queen, and yet of what the Prophet Elijah said to the one and to the other, I suppose ye are not ignorant?
Lethington.That was not cried out before the people to make them odious to their subjects.
Knox.That Elijah said, "Dogs shall lick the blood of Ahab, and eat the flesh of Jezebel," the Scriptures assure me; but I read not that it was whispered in their own ear, or in a corner. The plain contrary appears to me. That is, both the people and the Court understood well enough what the Prophet had promised; for so witnessed Jehu, after God's vengeance had stricken Jezebel.
Lethington.They were singular motions of the Spirit of God, and appertain nothing to this our age.
Knox.Then the Scripture has far deceived me, for St. Paul teaches me that, "Whatsoever is written within the Holy Scriptures, is written for our instruction." And my Master said that "Every learned and wise scribe brings forth his treasure, both things old and things new." And the Prophet Jeremiah affirms that "Every realm and every city that likewise offends, as then did Jerusalem, should likewise be punished." Why then, I neither see nor yet can understand that the acts of the ancient Prophets, and the fearful judgments of God executed before us upon the disobedient, appertain not unto this our age. But now, to put an end to this head, my Lord, the Prophets of God have not spared to rebuke wicked kings, as well to their face as before the people and subjects. Elisha feared not to say to King Jehoram, "What have I to do with thee? Get thee to the prophets of thy father, and to the prophets of thy mother; for as the Lord of Hosts lives, in whose sight I stand, if it were not that I regard the presence of Jehoshaphat, the King of Judah, I would not have looked toward thee nor seen thee." It is plain that the Prophet was a subject in the kingdom of Israel,and yet how little reverence he gives to the King. Jeremiah the Prophet was commanded to cry to the King and to the Queen, and to say, "Behave yourselves lawfully; execute justice and judgment; or else your carcases shall be cast to the heat of the day, and unto the frost of the night." Unto Coniah, Shallum, and Zedekiah, he speaks in special, and shows to them, in his public sermons, their miserable ends; and therefore ye ought not to think it strange, my Lord, that the servants of God mark the vice of kings and queens, as well as of other offenders, and that because their sins are more noisome to the commonwealth than are the sins of inferior persons.
For the most part of this reasoning, Secretary Lethington leaned upon the Master of Maxwell's breast, who said, "I am almost weary: I would that some other would reason in the chief head, which is not touched."
The Earl of Morton, Chancellor, commanded Mr. George Hay to reason against John Knox, in the head of obedience due unto magistrates; and he began so to do.
Knox.Brother, I am well content that ye reason with me, because I know you to be both a man of learning and of modesty: but that ye shall oppose yourself to a truth of which, I suppose, your own conscience is no less persuaded than is mine, I cannot well approve. I would be sorry that you and I should be reputed to reason as two scholars of Pythagoras, to show the quickness of our imagination. I protest here, before God, that, whatsoever I sustain, I do the same of conscience; yea, I dare no more sustain a proposition known unto myself untrue, than dare I teach false doctrine in the public place. Therefore, Brother, if conscience move you to oppose yourself to that doctrine which ye have heard from my mouth in that matter, do it boldly: it shall never offend me. But it pleases me not that ye be found to oppose yourself to me, if ye are persuaded in the same truth. In that there may be greater inconvenience than either ye or I do consider for the present.
Hay.Far be it from me to prove myself willing to impugn or confute that head of doctrine, which not only ye,but many others, yea, and I myself have affirmed; for so should I be found contrarious to myself. My Lord Secretary knows my judgment in that head.
Lethington.Marry; ye are well the worse of the two. I remember well your reasoning when the Queen was in Carrick.
Knox.Well, seeing, Brother, that God has made you occupy the chair of truth, in which, I am sure, we will agree in all principal heads of doctrine, let it never be said that we disagree in disputation.
John Knox was moved thus to speak, because he understood more of the craft than the other did.
Lethington.Well, I am persuaded in this last head somewhat better than I was in the other two. Mr. Knox, yesterday we heard your judgment upon the 13th to the Romans; we heard the mind of the Apostle well opened; we heard the causes why God has established powers upon the earth; we heard the necessity that mankind has of the same; and we heard the duty of magistrates sufficiently declared; but in two things I was offended, and so I think were some more of my Lords that were then present. The one was that ye made difference betwixt the ordinance of God and the persons that were placed in authority; and ye affirmed that men might refuse the persons, and yet not offend against God's ordinance. This is the one; the other ye had no time to explain; but methought ye meant this,—that subjects were not bound to obey their princes if they commanded unlawful things; but that they might resist their princes, and were never bound to suffer.
Knox.In very deed ye have rightly both marked my words, and understood my mind; for I have long been of that same judgment, and so I yet remain.
Lethington.How will ye prove your division and difference, and that the person placed in authority may be resisted, and God's ordinance not transgressed, seeing that the Apostle says, "He that resists the powers, resisteth the ordinance of God."
Knox.My Lord, the plain words of the Apostle make the difference, and the acts of many approved by God prove myaffirmative. First, the Apostle affirms that the powers are ordained of God for the preservation of quiet and peaceable men, and for the punishment of malefactors. From this it is plain that the ordinance of God and the power given unto men is one thing, and the person clad with the power or with the authority is another. God's ordinance is the conservation of mankind, the punishment of vice, and the maintaining of virtue, which is in itself holy, just, constant, stable, and perpetual. But men clad with the authority are commonly profane and unjust; yea, they are mutable and transitory, and subject to corruption. God threateneth them by His Prophet David, saying, "I have said ye are gods, and every one of you the sons of the Most Highest; but ye shall die as men, and the princes shall fall like others." Here I am assured that persons, the soul and body of wicked princes, are threatened with death: I think that ye will not affirm that so also are the authority, the ordinance and the power, wherewith God has endued such persons; for, as I have said, as it is holy, so is it the permanent will of God. Now, my Lord, it is evident that the prince may be resisted, and yet the ordinance of God not violated. The people resisted Saul, when he had sworn by the living God that Jonathan should die. The people, I say, swore to the contrary, and delivered Jonathan, so that not a hair of his head fell. Now, Saul was the anointed king, and they were his subjects, and yet they so resisted him that they made him no better than mansworn.[236]
Lethington.I doubt if in so doing the people did well.
Knox.The Spirit of God accuses them not of any crime, but rather praises them, and condemns the king, as well for his foolish vow and law made without God, as for his cruel mind, that would have punished an innocent man so severely. I shall not stand entirely upon this: what follows shall confirm it. This same Saul commanded Abimelech and the priests of the Lord to be slain, because they had committed treason, as he alleged, for intercommuning with David. His guard and principal servants would not obey his unjust commandment; but Doeg, the flatterer, put the king's cruelty toexecution. I will not ask your judgment whether the servants of the king, in not obeying his commandment, resisted God or not; or whether Doeg, in murdering the priests, gave obedience to a just authority. I have the Spirit of God, speaking by the mouth of David, to assure me of the one as well as of the other; for he, in his fifty-second Psalm, condemns that act as a most cruel murder; and affirms that God will punish not only the commander but the merciless executor. I conclude that they who gainstood his commandment resisted not the ordinance of God.
And now, my Lord, to answer to the statement of the Apostle, where he affirms that such as resist the power resist the ordinance of God, I say that the power in that place is not to be understood to be the unjust commandment of men, but the just power wherewith God has armed His magistrates and lieutenants to punish sin and maintain virtue. If any man enterprise to take from the hands of a lawful judge a murderer, an adulterer, or any other malefactor that by God's law deserves death, this same man resists God's ordinance, and procures to himself vengeance and condemnation, because he has stayed God's sword from striking. But this is not the case if men, in the fear of God, oppose themselves to the fury and blind rage of princes; in doing so, they do not resist God, but the Devil, who abuses the sword and authority of God.
Lethington.I sufficiently understand what ye mean; and to the one part I will not oppose myself. But I doubt of the other. If the Queen commanded me to slay John Knox, because she is offended at him, I would not obey her. But, were she to command others to do it, or by a colour of justice to take his life from him, I cannot tell if I should be found to defend him against the Queen and against her officers.
Knox.Under protestation that the audience think not that I seek favours for myself, my Lord, I say that, if ye be persuaded of my innocency, and if God has given you such power and credit as might deliver me, and yet you suffered me to perish, in so doing you should be criminal, and guilty of my blood.
Lethington.Prove that, and win the play.
Knox.Well, my Lord, remember your promise, and I shall be short in my probation. The Prophet Jeremiah was apprehended by the priests and prophets, who were a part of the authority within Jerusalem, and by the multitude of the people, and this sentence was pronounced against him, "Thou shalt die the death; for thou hast said, this house shall be like Shiloh, and this city shall be desolate without inhabitant." The princes, hearing the uproar, came from the king's house, and sat down in judgment in the entry of the new gate of the Lord's House, and there the priests and the prophets, before the princes, and before all the people, stated their accusation in these words, "This man is worthy to die, for he has prophesied against this city, as your ears have heard." Jeremiah answered that whatsoever he had spoken proceeded from God; and therefore said he, "As for me, I am in your hands: do with me as ye think good and right. But know ye for certain that, if ye put me to death, ye shall surely bring innocent blood upon your souls, and upon this city, and upon the habitations thereof; for of truth the Lord has sent me to you, to speak all these words." Now, my Lord, if the prophets and the whole people should have been guilty of the Prophet's blood, how shall ye or others be judged innocent before God, if ye suffer the blood of such as have not deserved death to be shed when ye may save it?
Lethington.The cases are nothing like.
Knox.I would like to learn wherein the dissimilitude stands.
Lethington.First, the king had not condemned him to death. And next, the false prophets and the priests and the people accused him without a cause, and therefore they could not but be guilty of his blood.
Knox.Neither of these fights against my argument; for, albeit the king was neither present, nor yet had condemned him, the princes and chief councillors were there sitting in judgment. They represented the king's person and authority, hearing the accusation laid to the charge of the Prophet. Therefore he forewarns them of the danger, as I have already said, that, if he should be condemned and put to death, theking, the council, and the whole city of Jerusalem should be guilty of his blood, because he had committed no crime worthy of death. If ye think that they should all have been criminal, only because they all accused him, the plain text witnesses the contrary. The princes defended him, and so no doubt did a great part of the people; and yet he boldly affirms that they should be all guilty of his blood if he should be put to death. The Prophet Ezekiel gives the reason why all are guilty of a common corruption. He says, "I sought a man amongst them that should make up the hedge, and stand in the gap before me for the land, that I should not destroy it, but I found none; therefore have I poured my indignation upon them." From this, my Lord, it is plain that God craves not only that a man do no iniquity in his own person, but also that he oppose himself to all iniquity, so far as in him lies.
Lethington.Then ye will make subjects control their princes and rulers.
Knox.And what harm should the commonwealth receive, if the corrupt affections of ignorant rulers were moderated, and so bridled by the wisdom and discretion of godly subjects that they should do wrong nor violence to no man?
Lethington.All this reasoning is not to the purpose; for we reason as if the Queen should become such an enemy to our religion, that she should persecute it, and put innocent men to death. This, I am assured, she never intended, and never will do. If I should see her again of that purpose, yea, if I should suspect any such thing in her, I should be as far forward in that argument as ye or any other within this realm. But there is not such a thing. Our question is, whether we may and ought to suppress the Queen's Mass? Or whether her idolatry shall be laid to our charge?
Knox.What ye may do by force, I dispute not; but what ye may and ought to do by God's express commandment, that I can tell. Idolatry ought not only to be suppressed, but the idolater ought to die the death, unless we will accuse God.
Lethington.I know that the idolater is commanded to die the death; but by whom?
Knox.By the people of God. The commandment wasgiven to Israel, as ye may read, "Hear, Israel, says the Lord, the statutes and the ordinances of the Lord thy God," etc. Yea, a commandment was given, that, if it be heard that idolatry is committed in any one city, inquisition shall be taken; and, if it be found true, the whole body of the people shall then arise and destroy that city, sparing in it neither man, woman, nor child.
Lethington.But there is no commandment given to the people to punish their king if he be an idolater.
Knox.I find no privilege to offend God's Majesty granted to kings, by God, more than to the people.
Lethington.I grant that; but yet the people may not be judges to their king to punish him, albeit he be an idolater.
Knox.God is the Universal Judge, as well of the king as of the people. What His Word commands to be punished in the one, is not to be absolved in the other.
Lethington.We agree in that; but the people may not execute God's judgment. They must leave it to Himself. He will either punish it by death, by war, by imprisonment, or by some other plagues.
Knox.I know the last part of your reason to be true; but for the first, that the people, yea, or a part of the people, may not execute God's judgments against their king, he being an offender, I am assured ye have no other warrant except your own imagination, and the opinion of such as have more fear to offend princes than God.
Lethington.Why say ye so? I have the judgments of the most famous men within Europe, and of such as ye yourself will confess both godly and learned.
And with that he called for his papers. When these were produced by Mr. Robert Maitland, he began to read with great gravity the judgments of Luther, and Melanchthon, and the minds of Bucer, Musculus, and Calvin, as to how Christians should behave themselves in time of persecution: yea, the Book of Baruch was not omitted.
Lethington.The gathering of these things has cost more travail than I have taken these seven years in the reading of commentaries.
Knox.The more pity; and yet, let others judge what ye have profited your own cause. As for my argument, I am assured ye have weakened it in nothing; for your first two witnesses speak against the Anabaptists, who deny that Christians should be subject to magistrates, or that it is lawful for a Christian to be a magistrate. That opinion I no less abhor than ye do, or than does any other that lives. The others speak of Christians subject to tyrants and infidels, so dispersed that they have no other force but only to sob to God for deliverance. That such, indeed, should hazard any further than these godly men direct them, I cannot hastily counsel. But my argument has another ground; for I speak of the people assembled together in one body of one commonwealth, to whom God has given sufficient force, not only to resist, but also to suppress all kind of open idolatry. Such a people, I affirm yet again, are bound to keep their land clean and unpolluted.
That this my division shall not appear strange to you, ye should understand that God required one thing of Abraham and of his seed, when he and they were strangers and pilgrims in Egypt and Canaan; and another thing when they were delivered from the bondage of Egypt, and the possession of the land of Canaan was granted to them. At the first, and during all the time of their bondage, God craved no more than that Abraham should not defile himself with idolatry. Neither was he nor his posterity commanded to destroy the idols that were in Canaan or in Egypt. But when God gave them the possession of the land, He gave them this strait commandment, "Beware lest ye make league or confederacy with the inhabitants of this land: give not thy sons unto their daughters, nor yet give thy daughters unto their sons. But this shall ye do unto them, cut down their groves, destroy their images, break down their altars, and leave thou no kind of remembrance of those abominations, which the inhabitants of the land used before: for thou art a people holy unto the Lord thy God. Defile not thyself, therewith, with their gods."
Ye, my Lords, and all such as have professed the LordJesus within this realm, are bound to this same commandment. God has wrought no less miracle upon you, both spiritual and corporal, than He did upon the carnal seed of Abraham. For you yourselves cannot be ignorant in what estate your bodies and this poor realm were, not seven years ago. You and it were both in bondage to a strange nation; and what tyrants reigned over your conscience, God perchance may let you feel, because ye do not rightly acknowledge the benefit received. When our poor brethren before us gave their bodies to the flames of fire for the testimony of the truth, and when scarcely ten that rightly knew God could be found in a country-side, it would have been foolishness to have craved the suppressing of idolatry, either by the Nobility, or by the humble subjects. That would have done nothing but expose the simple sheep as a prey to the wolves. But since God has multiplied knowledge, and has given the victory to His truth, even in the hands of His servants, if ye suffer the land again to be defiled, ye and your Princess shall both drink the cup of God's indignation—she for her obstinate abiding in manifest idolatry in the great light of the Evangel of Jesus Christ, and ye for your permitting and maintaining her in it.
Lethington.In that point we will never agree; and where find ye, I pray you, that any of the Prophets or of the Apostles ever taught such a doctrine as that the people should be plagued for the idolatry of the prince; or that the subjects might suppress the idolatry of their rulers, or punish them for the same?
Knox.My Lord, we know what was the commission given to the Apostles. It was to preach and plant the Evangel of Jesus Christ where darkness had dominion before; and therefore it behoved them, first, to let them see the light before they should urge them to put to their hands to suppress idolatry. I will not affirm what precepts the Apostles gave to the faithful in particular, other than that they commanded all to flee from idolatry. But I find two things which the faithful did; the one was, they assisted their preachers, even against the rulers and magistrates; the other was, they suppressed idolatry wherever God gave them force, asking no leave of theEmperor, or of his deputies. Read the Ecclesiastical History, and ye shall find sufficient example. As to the doctrine of the Prophets, we know they were interpreters of the law of God; and we know they spake to the kings as well as to the people. I read that neither would hear them; and therefore came the plague of God upon both. But I cannot be persuaded that they flattered kings more than the people.
As I have said, God's laws pronounce sentence of death upon idolatry, without exception of any person. Idolatry is never alone; ever does it corrupt religion, and bring with it a filthy and corrupt life. How the Prophets could rightly interpret the law, and show the causes of God's judgments, which they ever threatened should follow idolatry, and the rest of abominations that accompany it—how they could reprove the vices, and not show the people their duty, I understand not. Therefore, I constantly believe that the doctrine of the Prophets was so sensible that the kings understood their own abominations, and the people understood what they ought to have done in punishing and repressing them. But because the most part of the people were no less rebellious to God than were their princes, the one and the other convened against God and against His servants. And yet, my Lord, the acts of some Prophets are so evident, that we may collect from them what doctrine they taught; for it were no small absurdity to affirm that their acts should repugn to their doctrine.
Lethington.I think ye refer to the history of Jehu. What will ye prove thereby?
Knox.The chief head that ye deny and I affirm—that the Prophets never taught that it appertained to the people to punish the idolatry of their kings. For the probation, I am ready to produce the act of a Prophet. Ye know, my Lord, that Elisha sent one of the children of the Prophets to anoint Jehu, who gave him commandment to destroy the house of his master Ahab for the idolatry committed by him, and for the innocent blood that Jezebel his wicked wife had shed. He obeyed, and put this into full execution; and for this God promised him the stability of the kingdom, to the fourth generation. Here is the act of one Prophet that proves thatsubjects were commanded to execute judgments upon their king and prince.
Lethington.There is enough to be answered thereto. Jehu was a king before he put anything in execution; and besides, the act is extraordinary, and not to be imitated.
Knox.My Lord, he was a mere subject and no king, when the Prophet's servant came to him; yea, and albeit his fellow-captains, hearing of the message, blew the trumpet, and said, "Jehu is king;" I doubt not that Jezebel both thought and said he was a traitor. So did many others that were in Israel and in Samaria. And as touching what ye allege—that the act was extraordinary, and is not to be imitated—I say that it had ground upon God's ordinary judgment, which commands the idolater to die the death. Therefore, I yet again affirm that it is to be imitated by all those that prefer the true honour, the true worship, and the glory of God to the affections of flesh, and of wicked princes.
Lethington.We are not bound to imitate extraordinary examples, unless we have the like commandment and assurance.
Knox.I grant that, if the example repugn to the law, and if an avaricious and deceitful man desired to borrow gold, silver, raiment, or any other necessaries from his neighbour, and withhold the same, he might allege that he might do so and not offend God, because the Israelites did so to the Egyptians, at their departure from Egypt. The example would serve no purpose unless the like cause, and the like commandment to that which the Israelites had, could be produced; because, their act repugned to this commandment of God, "Thou shalt not steal." But where the example agrees with the law, and is, as it were, the execution of God's judgments expressed in it, I say that the example approved by God stands to us in place of a commandment. God of His nature is constant, and immutable; He cannot condemn in the subsequent ages that which He has approved in His servants before us. In His servants before us, by His own commandment, He has approved when subjects have not only destroyed their kings for idolatry, but also rootedout their whole posterity, so that none of that race were afterwards left to empire over the people of God.
Lethington.Whatsoever they did was done at God's commandment.
Knox.That fortifies my argument. You admit that subjects punish their princes by God's commandment for idolatry and wickedness committed by them.
Lethington.We have not the like commandment.
Knox.That I deny. The commandment, "The idolater shall die the death," is perpetual, as ye yourself have granted. You doubted only who should be executors against the king; and I said the people of God. I have sufficiently proven, I think, that God has raised up the people, and by His Prophet has anointed a king to take vengeance upon the king and upon his posterity. Since that time, God has never retreated[237]that act; and, therefore, to me it remains for a constant and clean commandment to all people professing God, and having the power to punish vice, as to what they ought to do in the like case. If the people had enterprised anything without God's commandment, we might have doubted whether they had done well or evil. But, seeing that God did bring the execution of His law again into practice, after it had fallen into oblivion and contempt, what reasonable man can now doubt of God's will, unless we are to doubt of all things which God does not renew to us by miracles, as it were, from age to age. I am assured that the answer of Abraham to the rich man who, being in hell, desired that Lazarus or some of the dead should be sent to his brethren and friends, to inform them of his incredible pain and torments, and to warn them so to behave themselves that they should not come to that place of torment—that answer shall confound such as crave further approbation of God's will than is already expressed within His holy Scriptures. Abraham said, "They have Moses and the Prophets; if they will not believe them, neither will they believe albeit one of the dead should rise." Even so, my Lord, I say that such as will not be taught what they ought to do, by commandment of God once given and once put in practice,will not believe or obey, albeit God should send angels from heaven to instruct that doctrine.
Lethington.Ye have but produced one example.
Knox.One sufficeth. But, God be praised, we do not lack others. The whole people conspired against Amaziah, king of Judah, after he had turned away from the Lord, followed him to Lachish and slew him, and took Uzziah and anointed him king instead of his father. The people had not altogether forgotten the league and covenant made betwixt their king and them, at the inauguration of Joash, his father, that the king and the people should be the people of the Lord, and then should they be his faithful subjects. When first the father, and afterwards the son, declined from that covenant, they were both punished to the death, Joash by his own servants, and Amaziah by the whole people.
Lethington.I doubt whether they did well or not.
Knox.It shall be free for you to doubt as ye please; but where I find execution according to God's laws, and God Himself does not accuse the doers, I dare not doubt of the equity of the cause. Further, it appears to me that God gave sufficient approbation and allowance to their act; for He blessed them with victory, peace, and prosperity, for the space of fifty-two years thereafter.
Lethington.But prosperity does not always prove that God approves the acts of men.
Knox.Yes; when the acts of men agree with the law of God, and are rewarded according to God's own promise, expressed in His law, I say that the prosperity succeeding the act is most infallible assurance that God has approved that act. God has promised in His law that, when His people shall exterminate and destroy such as decline from Him, He will bless them, and multiply them, as He has promised to their fathers. Amaziah turned from God; for so the text doth witness; and it is plain that the people slew their king; and it is as plain that God blessed them. Therefore, yet again I conclude that God approved their act, and it, in so far as it was done according to His commandment, was blessed according to His promise.
Lethington.Well, I think the ground is not so sure that I durst build my conscience thereupon.
Knox.I pray God that your conscience have no worse ground than this, whenever ye shall begin work like that which God, before your own eyes, has already blessed. And now, my Lord, I have but one example to produce, and then I will put an end to my reasoning, because I weary of standing. (Commandment was given that he should sit down; but he refused it, and said, "Melancholious reasons would have some mirth intermixed.") My last example, my Lord, is this, Uzziah the king, not content of his royal estate, malapertly took upon him to enter within the temple of the Lord, to burn incense upon the altar of incense; and Azariah the priest went in after him, and with him fourscore priests of the Lord, valiant men. These withstood Uzziah the king, and said to him, "It pertaineth thee not, Uzziah, to burn incense unto the Lord, but to the priests, the sons of Aaron, that are consecrated to offer incense. Go forth of the sanctuary, for thou hast transgressed, and you shall have no honour of the Lord God." From this, my Lord, I conclude that subjects not only may, but ought to withstand and resist their princes, whenever they do anything that expressly repugns to God's law or holy ordinance.
Lethington.They that withstood the king were not simple subjects. They were the priests of the Lord, and figures of Christ. We have none such priests this day, to withstand kings if they do wrong.
Knox.I grant that the High Priest was the figure of Christ, but I deny that he was not a subject. I am assured that he, in his priesthood, had no prerogative above those that had gone before him. Now, Aaron was subject unto Moses, and called him his lord. Samuel, being both prophet and priest, subjected himself to Saul, after he was inaugurated by the people. Zadok bowed before David; and Abiathar was deposed from the priesthood by Solomon. These all confessed themselves subjects to the kings, albeit therewith they ceased not to be figures of Christ. Ye say that we have no such priests this day, but I might answer that neither have we such kings this day as then were anointed at God's commandment,and sat upon the seat of David, and were no less the figure of Christ Jesus in their just administration, than were the priests in their appointed office. Such kings, I am assured, we have not now, more than have we such priests. Christ Jesus, being anointed in our nature by God, His Father, as King, Priest, and Prophet, has put an end to all external unction. And yet, I think, ye will not say that God has now diminished His graces for those whom He appoints ambassadors betwixt Him and His people, more than He does from kings and princes. Therefore, I see not why the servants of Jesus Christ may not also justly withstand kings and princes that this day no less offend God's Majesty than Uzziah did, unless ye will say that we, in the brightness of the Evangel, are not straitly bound to regard God's glory or His commandments, as were the fathers that lived under the dark shadows of the law.
Lethington.Well, I will dip no further into that head. But how resisted the priests the king? They only spake to him, without further violence intended.
Knox.That they withstood him, the text assures me; but that they did nothing but speak, I cannot understand. The plain text affirms the contrary. They caused him hastily to depart from the sanctuary, yea, he was compelled to depart. This manner of speaking, I am assured, imports in the Hebrew tongue another thing than exhorting, or commanding by word.
Lethington.They did that after he was espied to be leprous.
Knox.They withstood him before; but their last act confirms my proposition so evidently, that such as will oppose themselves to it must needs oppose themselves to God. My assertion is, that kings have no privilege to offend God's Majesty more than had the people; and that, if they do so, they are no more exempted from the punishment of the law than is any subject; yea, and that subjects may not only lawfully oppose themselves to their kings, whenever they do anything that expressly repugns to God's commandment, but also that they may execute judgment upon them according to God's law. If the king be a murderer, adulterer, or idolater, he should sufferaccording to God's law, not as a king, but as an offender, and this history clearly proves that the people may put God's laws into execution. As soon as the leprosy appeared in his forehead, he was not only compelled to depart out of the sanctuary, but he was also removed from all public society and administration of the kingdom, and was compelled to dwell in a house apart, even as the law commanded. He got no greater privilege in that case than any other of the people should have done; and this was executed by the people; for there is no doubt that more than the priests alone were witnesses of his leprosy. We do not find that any oppose themselves to the sentence of God pronounced in His law against the leprous; and therefore, yet again say I that the people ought to execute God's law even against their princes, when their open crimes deserve death by God's law, but especially when they are such as may infect the rest of the multitude. And now, my Lords, I will reason no longer, for I have spoken more than I intended.
Lethington.And yet I cannot tell what can be concluded.
Knox.Albeit ye cannot, I am assured of what I have proven, to wit:—1. That subjects have delivered an innocent from the hands of their king, and therein offended not God. 2. That subjects have refused to strike innocents when a king commanded, and in doing so denied no just obedience. 3. That such as struck at the commandment of the king before God were reputed murderers. 4. That God has not only of one subject made a king, but also has armed subjects against their natural kings, and commanded them to take vengeance upon them according to His law. 5. That God's people have executed God's law against their king, having no further regard to him in that behalf, than if he had been the most simple subject within this realm. Therefore, albeit ye will not understand what should be concluded, I am assured not only that God's people may, but also that they are bound to do the same where the like crimes are committed, and when He gives unto them the like power.
Lethington.Well, I think ye shall not have many learned men of your opinion.
Knox.My Lord, the truth ceases not to be the truth, howsoever men either misknow it, or yet gainstand it. And yet, I praise my God that I lack not the consent of God's servants in that head.
With that, John Knox presented to the Secretary the Apology of Magdeburg; and willed him to read the names of the ministers who had subscribed the defence of the town to be a most just one; adding, that to resist a tyrant is not to resist God, or yet His ordinance.
When the Secretary had read this, he scripped and said, "Homines obscuri."[238]The other answered, "Dei tamen servi."[239]
So Lethington arose and said, "My Lords, ye have heard the reasons upon both sides: it becomes you now to decide, and to give an order unto preachers, that they may be uniform in doctrine. May we, think ye, take the Queen's Mass from her?"
While some began to give their votes, for some were appointed, as it were, leaders to the rest, John Knox said, "My Lords, I suppose that ye will not do contrary to your Lordships' promise, made to the whole Assembly. This was that nothing should be voted in secret, until all matters should first be debated in public, and that then the votes of the whole Assembly should put an end to the controversy. Now have I only sustained the argument, and shown my conscience in most simple manner, rather than insisted upon the force and vehemence of any one argument. Therefore I, for my part, utterly dissent from all voting, until the whole Assembly have heard the propositions and the reasons of both parties. For I unfeignedly acknowledge that many in this company are more able to sustain the argument than I am.
"Think ye it reasonable," said Lethington, "that such a multitude as are now convened should reason and vote in these heads and matters that concern the Queen's Majesty's own person and affairs."
"I think," said the other, "that, whosoever should bind,the multitude should hear, unless they have resigned their power to their commissioners. This they have not done, so far as I understand; for my Lord Justice Clerk heard them say, with one voice, that in nowise would they consent that anything should either be voted or concluded here."
"I cannot tell," said Lethington, "if my Lords that be here present, and that bear the burden of such matters, should be bound to their will. What say ye, my Lords? Will ye vote in this matter, or will ye not vote?"
After long reasoning, some that were made for the purpose said, "Why may not the Lords vote, and then show unto the Kirk whatsoever is done?"
"That appears to me," said John Knox, "not only a backward order, but also a tyranny usurped upon the Kirk. For me, do as ye list, as I reason, so I vote; yet I protest, as before, that I dissent from all voting, until the whole Assembly understand the questions as well as the reasonings."
"Well," said Lethington, "that cannot be done now, for the time is spent; and therefore, my Lord Chancellor, said he, ask ye the votes, and take by course every one of the ministers, and one of us."