Q.What was in it?
A.I think there were two sleeves of a coat, and then a coat cut to pieces, and embroidery, and a star, and a silver coat of arms, with two figures upon it.
Q.How was it sunk?
A.With three pieces of lead, three screws, and some marks for letters.
Q.With some metal?
A.Yes, and some bits of coal.
Q.Did you give that which you found to Mr. Wade, the Secretary of the Stock Exchange?
A.Yes.
Q.How soon after you found it did you give it to him?
A.I picked it up on the Wednesday, and I carried it there on the Saturday.
Mr. Park.Can you give us the day of the month when you picked this up?
A.The 24th of March.
Mr. Gurney.Did you find it on the 24th of March, or give it to Mr. Wade on that day?
A.I picked it up on that day, about half after eleven o'clock in the day; I can bring plenty of witnesses to my picking it up.
Q.Are these the sort of things that you picked up? (shewing a bundle of clothes with star, &c. to the witness.)
A.These are the sort of things, but the star was not in that state it is now; the star was in half, and one of the birds was off.
Mr. Gurney.This, my Lord, is an order of masonry, and this I understand a Russian order of knighthood, the order of St. Ann.
Mr. Francis Baily sworn.Examined by Mr. Gurney.
Q.You are of the Stock Exchange?
A.Yes, I am.
Q.Were you present with Mr. Wade, when he received the parcel from Odell?
A.I was,—from the last witness in the box.
Q.Was it delivered over to Mr. Lavie?
A.I believe it was, it lay upon the table some time.
Q.Did you examine it?
A.I did, very minutely.
Q.Are the things contained in that parcel?
A.I believe them to be, they appear to be the same.
Mr. Gurney (to Mr. Lavie).Did you receive that from Mr. Wade?
Mr. Lavie.I did, I took it from the Stock Exchange room.
Q.Mr. Wade and Mr. Baily were present?
Mr. Lavie.Yes, they were.
Mr. Robert Watson Wade sworn.Examined by Mr. Gurney.
Q.You are the Secretary at the Stock Exchange?
A.I am.
Q.Did you, in company with Mr. Baily and other gentlemen, receive from Odell the bundle said to be found in the River?
A.I did.
Q.Was it given to Mr. Lavie?
A.It was.
Q.The star we understand was then in two pieces?
A.Yes.
Q.Was it afterwards sewn together?
A.It was, for the purpose of being exhibited.
Simeon Kensington Solomon sworn.Examined by Mr. Gurney.
Q.I believe you are a military accoutrement maker?
A.Yes, I am.
Q.Have you a shop at Charing-Cross, and another at New-Street Covent Garden?
A.We have.
Q.On the Saturday the 19th of February do you remember any person making a purchase of any military dress at your house?
A.Yes, I do.
Q.What dress was purchased of you?
A.A military great coat and foraging cap.
Q.What is it made of?
A.Dark fur.
Q.Was any thing on it?
A.It had a pale gold band.
Q.Have you since had a cap and a coat made exactly resembling them?
A.I have.
Q.Are these the cap and the coat you have had so made? (shewing them to the witness.)
A.They are.
Q.Do they exactly resemble the cap and the coat you sold?
A.As nearly as I could possibly recollect.
Q.What else did the person purchase?
A.They purchased at our house in New Street——
Q.You suppose some order had been given in New-Street, did any thing come from New-Street as having been ordered there?
A.Yes there did.
Q.You were at Charing Cross?
A.I was.
Q.Did any person come to your shop at Charing-Crossand take away that which had been sent from New-Street which you furnished?
A.Yes, he did.
Q.Was there any other coat purchased besides that great coat?
A.There was a military regimental coat, a staff coat was brought from New-Street.
Q.Was that scarlet?
A.Yes, fitted for a staff officer the uniform of an Aid de Camp.
Q.With this sort of gold lace upon it?
A.Yes.
Q.Have you examined these fragments?
A.Yes, I have.
Q.Were there any ornaments besides?
A.There was a star and a badge.
Q.Look at that star and badge and tell me whether you believe them to be the same?
A.Yes, I do believe them to be the same.
Q.Why do you believe them to be the same?
A.The star I certainly believe to be the same, because we had the very fellow star.
Q.Except these two, did you ever see any star like them?
A.I do not know that ever I did.
Q.Do you believe that badge to be the same?
A.The badge I did not notice much.
Q.You sold a badge?
A.The badge came from our house in New-Street.
Q.Had you any conversation with the person?
A.Yes I had.
Q.You have examined these fragments?
A.I have.
Q.Do you believe them to be the fragments of the dress you furnished, or of such a dress?
A.They appear to be those materials, as far as I can judge in that state.
Q.And the same kind of lace?
A.The same description of embroidery.
Q.Speaking of a thing so cut to pieces, does it appear to you to consist of the remnants of the dress you furnished?
A.Yes, except that the scarlet is very much discoloured by being under water, it appears the same description of coat.
Q.Had you any conversation with the person as to the use of these things?
A.I had very little conversation as to the sale of the uniform, for they were already purchased before I saw him, with respect to the great coat I sold that and also the cap.
Q.Did he mention for what purpose they were wanted?
A.He observed that they were wanted for a person who was to perform the character of a foreign officer, to be sent into the country that evening.
Q.Did he take them away with him?
A.Yes he did.
Q.Did you offer to lend them to him?
A.Where he purchased the uniform——
Q.If that was not in your presence you will not state it—did he take them away with him?
A.Yes he took them away in a coach.
Q.Had he any portmanteau with him?
A.He had a small portmanteau.
Q.Did he beat you down in the prices?
A.No, he did not.
Q.Did he say any thing about money?
A.No, he made no observations, he merely paid for them.
Q.You were conversing with that person for some time?
A.For a short time.
Q.Have you since seen him again—have you seen any person that you believed to be the same?
A.I was introduced to a person——
Q.Where was that?
A.At the Parliament-street Coffee House.
Q.Do you believe that person you saw at the Parliament-street Coffee House to be the person who so made the purchase?
A.That I cannot undertake to say.
Q.What do you believe?
A.In point of appearance he resembles him, except that the person whom I served had whiskers.
Q.I suppose the person you saw in Parliament street had not?
A.He had not.
Q.Look at him now and tell me whether you do or do not believe him to be the person? (The witness looked at the Defendant De Berenger.)
A.This is the person I was introduced to at the Coffee-house.
Q.Upon the oath you have taken, what is your belief respecting him?
A.I really cannot undertake to swear that he is the person?
Q.What do you believe?
A.The Gentleman that represented himself to be Mr. Wilson was dressed in a different manner, he had black whiskers, and from that circumstance I could not possibly undertake to swear it was the same person.
Q.What is your belief?
Mr. Park.That belief may be founded on different facts?
Lord Ellenborough.To those facts you will examine, Mr. Gurney is now examining, there is no objection to the question.
Mr. Gurney.What is your belief?
A.Upon my word it is impossible for me to say.
Q.Do you mean to say that you have no belief upon the matter?
A.I mean to say I cannot undertake to swear it is the person.
Q.What is your belief?
A.I believe it resembles the person, except that the person I served had whiskers.
Q.Making allowance for whiskers which may be taken off in a minute, what is your belief upon the subject?
A.Upon my word it is impossible for me to say.
Q.You can certainly say what is your belief?
Lord Ellenborough.You are not asked as to whether you are certain, but to your belief.
A.If I were to say I believe it is the person I might say wrong, if I were to say I believe it is not the person I might say otherwise, it may be the person but I cannot undertake to say I believe it is.
Mrs. Abigail Davidson sworn.Examined by Mr. Gurney.
Q.In the month of February last did you reside in the Asylum Buildings?
A.Yes.
Q.That is near to the Asylum?
A.Yes.
Q.Is the house within the rules of the King's Bench?
A.Yes it is.
Q.Did Mr. De Berenger lodge with you?
A.He did.
Q.Do you remember on what day he finally quitted your house?
A.On the 27th of February.
Q.What day of the week was that?
A.Sunday.
Q.Do you remember where he was the Sunday before that?
A.No.
Q.Did you see him on the morning of that Sunday?
A.No, on Sunday the 20th you mean, I did not.
Q.Did he sleep at home that night?
A.I cannot say.
Q.Did you see him that night at all?
A.We never attended to the door.
Q.Did you usually hear Mr. De Berenger in the morning?
A.Yes.
Q.Much or little did you hear him?
A.We heard him very frequently.
Q.Did you on the morning of Monday the 21st hear him as usual?
A.No.
Q.What did you use to hear of him on the mornings on which you did hear him?
A.We heard the bell ring for the servant.
Q.Once or more than once?
A.More than once?
Q.What rooms did he occupy?
A.The whole of the upper part of the house.
Q.What part did you occupy?
A.The parlours.
Q.How many rooms up stairs were there?
A.Four.
Q.And you and your husband occupied the two parlours?
A.Yes.
Q.On other mornings when you heard him besides ringing the bell did you hear any thing else respecting him?
A.Occasionally Mr. De Berenger would play on the violin or the trumpet.
Q.Did you hear him walk about?
A.Yes.
Q.Did Mr. De Berenger then wear whiskers or no whiskers?
A.Whiskers.
Q.Was there any morning on which you were at home that you did not hear his bell and his walking about?
A.No, I generally heard his bell.
Q.Did you see him come home on the Monday?
A.No.
Q.How early on that evening did you see him?
A.In the evening about a quarter or half past five.
Q.Had you heard him in the house before that time?
A.I heard him in the afternoon.
Q.You say he quitted your house on the Sunday after?
A.Yes.
Q.Do you remember any Gentleman calling there the day before he quitted with a letter?
A.On the Saturday night—
Q.He called with a letter?
A.Yes he did.
Q.Have you since seen that Gentleman again?
A.Yes.
Q.Where did you see him?
A.I saw him at the Temple?
Q.Was it at the Crown Office?
A.I do not know what office it was.
Q.Was Mr. Lavie present at the time you saw him?
A.Yes he was.
Q.Did you point him out to Mr. Lavie.
A.I cannot say that I should positively know the gentleman.
Q.Do you believe him to be the same?
A.Yes, I think it was.
Q.The same you had seen on the Saturday deliver that letter?
A.Yes, I think so.
Q.Had Mr. De Berenger two servants of the name of Smith, William Smith and his wife?
A.Yes.
Q.When he dined at home did his servants attend him?
A.Always.
Q.On the Sunday before he finally went away, Sunday the 20th, did he dine at home?
A.I cannot answer that.
Q.What was his usual dinner hour?
A.About four o'clock.
Q.Where were his servants at four o'clock on that day? At home or not?
A.I think they went out early on that day.
Q.What do you mean by early?
A.I mean two or half past two o'clock.
Q.Do you remember any thing about your key, respecting either of them, whether either of them had your key?
A.There was a private place where the key always hung for the accommodation of Mr. De Berenger and us.
Q.Where was the key put that night?
A.The key was always under the care of Mr. Smith.
Q.You did not see where he put it that night, did you?
A.No, I did not.
Cross-examined by Mr. Park.
Q.What Sunday was it that these servants went out to dinner at two or half past two?
A.On Sunday the 20th.
Q.You were preparing to go to chapel on that Sunday at eleven o'clock, and Mr. De Berenger went out at the time.
A.Mr. Davidson was going out, I did not go out.
Q.You were not well?
A.No.
Q.Mr. Davidson was going out.
A.Yes, but I did not see Mr. De Berenger.
Q.Did you hear your husband make an observation at the time?
A.Yes, I did.
Q.You did not yourself attend to the door?
A.No.
Q.This Gentleman had been your lodger for some years, had he not?
A.Nine months?
Q.You do not mean to represent, that he slept from his own bed on that Sunday, the 20th?
A.I cannot say that he did, or that he did not.
Q.You do not make his bed or go into his room?
A.No.
Q.Do you sleep in the parlour?
A.Yes, we have the two parlours.
Q.What is your general hour of rising in the morning?
A.Between seven and eight.
Q.Mr. De Berenger's time of trumpeting is not so early as that I suppose?
A.I have heard him at nine o'clock.
Q.He did not alarm the neighbourhood at seven o'clock?
A.No, I have heard him by eight or nine.
Q.Not so soon as that I should think in the month of February, not being very warm weather at that time?
A.I cannot speak to the time.
Q.If a person went out at eight o'clock that morning, you had no particular reason to know of it?
A.No.
Q.You had no call to look after him on the Sunday, or Monday, or Tuesday morning?
A.No.
Q.And whether he slept at home or did not, you cannot take upon yourself to say?
A.No.
Re-examined by Mr. Gurney.
Q.My learned Friend has asked you as to your husband observing upon Mr. De Berenger's going out on the Sunday morning: in what words did your husband make the remark as to Mr. De Berenger's going out?
A.He called out, our lodger is gone out with a new great coat on.
Mr. Germain Lavie again called.Examined by Mr. Gurney.
Q.Who was the Gentleman that Mrs. Davidson pointed out to you?
Mr. Serjeant Best.I object to that, that is a leading question.
Mr. Gurney. I beg pardon.—Did the last witness point out any person to you at the Crown-Office, at the time of striking the Jury?
A.Before she came into the Crown-Office she saw Mr. Cochrane Johnstone getting out of a Hackney coach at the Crown-Office door—she then told me——
Q.Did she point out any person to you as having seen him before?
A.No, she did not then.
Q.Did she afterwards fix upon any person as having seen him?
A.No she did not, unless I can speak to what passed before.
Q.Did she mention having seen any person get out of a Hackney Coach?
A.Yes.
Q.Who was that person that she observed upon?
A.The person she pointed out to me as having seen get out of a Hackney coach was Mr. Cochrane Johnstone—she staid the whole time of the striking of the Jury, he struck the Jury himself.
Lord Ellenborough.Then the whole of it is, that the person who was striking the Jury, was Mr. Cochrane Johnstone?
A.Yes.
Mr. Gurney. (to Mrs. Davidson).Was that person the person that you believe brought the Letter?
Q.I cannot be positive to his person.
Q.Do you believe that to be the person?
A.I think it was.
Mrs. Abigail Davidson.Cross-examined by Mr. Serjeant Best.
Q.How came you to go for the purpose of striking the Jury.
A.A person from Mr. Lavie came and fetched me for the purpose.
Q.To attend to assist in striking the Jury?
A.No, to see Mr. Johnstone.
Q.You were told Mr. Johnstone was to be there?
A.Yes.
Q.And going there you saw a person taking a part with respect to the striking of the Jury?
A.I saw a Gentleman get out of the coach as I was standing in the passage, I saw a Gentleman come across, that I thought was the person, but I could not be positive.
Q.Can you take upon yourself to swear now, that was the person?
A.No, I would not swear it.
Re-examined by Mr. Gurney.
Q.When you saw the person at the time he left the letter, had you any reason to know what his name was?
A.No, I had never seen the Gentleman before, but in conversing with Smith, Mr. De Berenger's servant——.
Q.Had you any conversation about him with Smith, Mr. Du Bourg's servant?
A.I had.
Mr. Gurney.I do not ask you what it was, my learned Friends may if they please.
Launcelot Davidson sworn.Examined by Mr. Gurney.
Q.Are you the husband of the last Witness?
A.Yes.
Q.Mr. De Berenger we find lodged in your house?
A.He did.
Q.Do you remember on what day he quitted your house?
A.The 27th of February I think.
Q.What day of the week?
A.Sunday.
Q.Do you remember seeing him go out on the Sunday before the 20th.
A.Yes.
Q.At what hour of the day?
A.Before eleven.
Q.Have you any reason to know the time?
A.Yes, I had been out before, and I returned home and stood before the parlour window waiting to hear the Asylum clock strike eleven, to go to chapel.
Q.How was he dressed?
A.At that time that I saw him go out, I had seen him ten minutes before come in.
Q.How was he dressed when he came in before?
A.He had a plaid cloak on that he had worn nearly all the winter, he and I came in together, he was just before me.
Q.When he went out again, how was he dressed?
A.He had just such a coat as this on as to colour, (the grey coat before produced.)
Q.Did it appear to be new or old?
A.I cannot exactly say, but as he went down the yard, I said to my wife who was in the back parlour, there goes our lodger, he has a new great coat on, just before he had his plaid on when I came in.
Q.Did he come home again at all during that day?
A.Not that I saw.
Q.Did you see or hear him at all during that day?
A.No, I did not.
Q.Did you see or hear him the next morning?
A.No, I am not at home—I always go out the early part of the morning.
Q.At what time do you go out?
A.About nine.
Q.Before nine had you either seen or heard him?
A.No, I had not.
Q.Do you usually hear him in a morning before that time?
A.Yes, I generally used to hear him walking about, or ringing for his servant, or something or other.
Q.On that Monday morning before you went out, did you hear those things you generally did?
A.No, I did not, and we made the observation upon it, and also upon the servants going out at two o'clock, which was not customary.
Q.At what time on the Sunday did they go out?
A.I think about two o'clock.
Q.At what time did they return?
A.That I cannot say.
Q.Did they return that evening?
A.I dare say they did, but we never opened the door?
Q.Were they out or at home at four o'clock?
A.That I cannot say, I do not think they were at home.
Q.What was Mr. De Berenger's usual dinner hour?
A.About four o'clock.
Q.Did they attend him at dinner?
A.The man servant did.
Q.And the woman servant cooked his dinner?
A.Yes, she did.
Q.Did he dine at home on that Sunday?
A.No, he did not.
Q.I do not ask you what conversation took place between you and the Smiths' next day respecting the Sunday night, but did any conversation take place on that subject?
A.Yes, there did.
Q.On the Sunday afterwards he left your house?
A.He did.
Q.Did you see him go away on the Sunday after?
A.No.
Cross-examined by Mr. Richardson.
Q.You had nothing to do with his domestic life, with his dinner, or letting him into the house, or letting him out of it?
A.No.
Q.His servants attended to all that?
A.Yes.
Q.He might come in or go out without your observing it?
A.Yes, he might, but it is almost impossible I should think, because he generally gave a very loud rap at the door, and he had very few visitors.
Q.You yourself go out early in the morning upon your own business?
A.Yes, about nine o'clock.
Q.Do you stay out a considerable part of the day?
A.Yes.
Q.What is your business?
A.A broker.
Q.At that time you acted as a broker?
A.I acted as a broker's Clerk at that time.
Q.You are out a considerable part of the day, sometimes more, sometimes less.
A.Yes.
Mr. Gurney.Now my Lord I am going to what I have stated as the underplot, respecting M'Rae, Sandom, Lyte, and Holloway.
Thomas Vinn sworn.Examined by Mr. Bolland.
Q.In consequence of a note that was left at your house, did you go to the Carolina Coffee House in February last?
A.I did, where I met M'Rae.
Q.What day in February was it?
A.On the 14th of February the note was dated, and I received it the 15th.
Q.On what day did you go to the Carolina Coffee House?
A.On the 15th in the morning.
Q.Did any body accost you there?
A.I met M'Rae, who was at that time in company with an elderly Gentleman, he desired me to sit down and he would be with me presently.
Q.Had you known M'Rae before?
A.I had some years.
Q.Did he return to you as he said he would?
A.He was not out of my sight, he was standing near the door, and in the course of seven or ten minutes, as far as I can recollect, he came and joined me.
Q.Upon his joining you what passed?
A.He told me he had known me a long time, and that he thought he had now an opportunity of making my fortune; that he knew from the knowledge I had of languages, particularly that of the French, I should have an opportunity of both benefiting others and myself.
Q.What answer did you make?
A.I asked him what the object was, and whether it was to travel abroad; he told me it was not to travel abroad, but it was probably to travel at home, and that almost immediately; that it was a scheme that he had in contemplation, employed by men of affluence and consequence, and that he thought no man more competent to that than myself.—On my asking him if there was any thing of moral turpitude in it, he said that there was none but that it was practised daily by men of the first consequence, it was nothing more nor less than biting the biters, or in other words, a Hoax upon the Stock Exchange. I asked him in what way I could attend to it, or in what way it was to be performed; he told me by going down to Dartford, Folkestone, or Dover, as I shouldreceive instructions, and that, that evening, but that it was necessary to have for himself and me, two dresses appropriated to that of French Officers. I here stopped him, and asked whether he really meant me to be employed in this transaction, to which he replied, certainly, and that I should be in the first place remunerated, and ultimately have a fortune made me. I replied with indignation, that I would as soon be concerned in a highway robbery, that I thought he had known me better than to have suggested to me a plan of the kind, and expressed myself rather beyond the usual tone of my voice, hurt at it, he endeavoured to hush me by saying people would overhear us, he endeavoured to hush me by the ejaculationishfor that we should be overheard there.
Lord Ellenborough.Did he say you might probably be overheard there?
A.Yes, he did, and then he took me out of the Coffee-house and went up Cornhill where I left him, but recollecting this was only what was related to me, and that if ever it took place or did not, it was impossible that what I said could be any proof, I therefore considered that I had better——
Mr. Alley.Give us the facts if you please, and not the reasons?
Mr. Bolland.Do not trouble my friend with your reasons as he does not like them, but tell us what you did?
A.I returned and told him if he would go with me to another Coffee-house, I would introduce him to a person, who though I would not undertake the business might do it.
Q.What was your reason for doing that?
A.Only that I might have a witness.
Mr. Alley.I object to that reason being stated.
Lord Ellenborough.This is only introductory to what he is about to state. I presume no one can be more interested than I am in his narration being short?
A.I told him I would take him to a Coffee-house where a person was who might engage in this hoax.
Lord Ellenborough.I beg you will not call it by that name—such an offence as this.
Mr. Bolland.Did you take him to the Coffee-house?
A.Yes.
Q.What Coffee-house?
A.The Jamaica—there was a young man there to whom I was about to introduce him, but he turned round suddenly and I did not.
Q.Did any thing more pass between M'Rae and you?
A.No, nothing more.
Q.Any thing about French terms?
A.I recollect myself—In consequence of M'Rae returning, he asked me whether I would not give him in writing the termsVive le Roi—Vive les Bourbons;—which in the expectation of his attending to this young man, (this was in the Jamaica Coffee-house) I gave him.
Q.Did you give him any other?
A.None other to my knowledge.
Q.Was that the letter you received from M'Rae? (shewing a letter to the witness.)
A.That is it.
Q.Is that M'Rae's writing?
A.It is.
(The Letter was read as follows:)
February 14, 1814.Mr. Vinn,Please to meet me at the Carolina Coffee-house, Birchin-lane, about eleven to-morrow, upon very particular interesting business.Yours, very respectfully,ALEXANDER M'RAE.
February 14, 1814.
Mr. Vinn,
Please to meet me at the Carolina Coffee-house, Birchin-lane, about eleven to-morrow, upon very particular interesting business.
Yours, very respectfully,ALEXANDER M'RAE.
Cross-examined by Mr. Alley.
Q.As I have not the pleasure of knowing you, what is your business?
A.I am an accountant.
Q.Have you been acquainted for any length of time with Mr. M'Rae?
A.I believe five years and a half, or nearly six years.
Q.Have you been concerned in any business in the Stock Exchange?
A.No.
Q.You were not in the habit of buying and selling as a Broker?
A.No.
Q.It was an odd thing that Mr. M'Rae should resort to you in such a base transaction, you being in the business of an Accountant?
A.I have been in business and have been unfortunate, and since have been an Accountant.
Q.Not to lose your character I take for granted?
A.I hope not.
Q.There was no other person present to hear this conversation?
A.He was talking with a gentleman when I entered.
Q.This rests upon your own testimony?
A.We afterwards joined a party, but no person heard the conversation but ourselves, except that any person might hear me when I became vociferous.
Q.You quite met my approbation when you told me that you considered this as base as if he had asked you to go on the highway—how came you to propose a friend of yours after that?
A.It was merely for the purpose of having a witness to the offer to me, because if not, and this took place what I had said would have been of no effect had it been rendered completely abortive by this failing with me.
Q.Then am I to understand you thought it better to let this wickedness be practised in order that it might afterwards be proved?
A.I am sorry I am so misunderstood, I only wished it should not be promulgated to the world merely on myipse dixit, but on the testimony of another.
Q.You did introduce him to your friend?
A.No, I did not, he would not be introduced. I had communicated to my friend the business in question before he came.
Q.How soon did you communicate this to the Stock Exchange?
A.I communicated it within ten minutes afterwards on that day.
Q.After the thing had been publicly known?
A.No, I went immediately on this application being made and promulgated it to Mr. Rothery, of the Atlas Printing-Office, in Houndsditch; I afterwards went to a house in Clement's lane, where I promulgated it to thirteen or fourteen different persons, and I made it public daily in all the companies I went into.
Q.Was that before this happened?
A.It was on the 15th I made public, not the name of M'Rae, but that such a thing had been offered to me, which I refused with indignity.
Q.Some of these gentlemen are here as witnesses to-day I suppose?
A.I did not think it necessary, but I am perfectly willing that they should be called, I have seen two of them in Court and probably they may be so now.
Lord Ellenborough.This is merely a meditated something if you think it worth while to pursue it you may.
Mr. Alley.He only says that it rests upon his testimony, that was all I wanted to know—you gave him two bits of French to assist him however?
A.After I had agreed to take him to another friend, in order to get him to that business, I certainly did mention the name ofVive le Roi—Vive le Bourbons.
Q.Would not you have thought it quite as honest and as much to your purpose to have omitted that?
A.You will see that that was done for the purpose I have mentioned.
Mr. Gurney.Was it done in order to get a conformatory witness?
A.It was done with that intent and that only.
Sarah Alexander sworn.Examined by Mr. Bolland.
Q.You live at No. 61, Fetter-lane, do you not?
A.Yes, I do.
Q.How long have you lived there?
A.I have lived there ever since last September.
Q.Do you know Mr. M'Rae?
A.Yes.
Q.Did he lodge with you?
A.Not with me—he lodged on the same floor that I did.
Q.Is he a married or single man?
A.A married man; he had his wife with him.
Q.Do you recollect any thing passing in February last, with regard to Mr. M'Rae?
A.Yes, on a Saturday night.
Q.What Saturday night?
A.The 19th of February.
Q.Where were you at that time?
A.In my own room; he came into my room and brought it and gave it to his wife.
Q.His wife was in your room?
A.Yes.
Q.What did he bring home and give to his wife?
A.A small parcel; he gave it to his wife and told her it was of value and to take care of it.
Q.Did he say any thing else to her?
A.Nothing else.
Q.Did you see any thing more of that parcel on that night?
A.Not that night. On Sunday the 20th, he went out about ten o'clock, between ten and eleven.
Q.Did he return again and when?
A.He returned before twelve.
Q.Did he bring any thing in with him?
A.He brought two coats and two opera hats.
Q.Did he bring the two coats and two opera hats open or inclosed in any thing?
A.They were in a bundle.
Q.Did you see them?
A.Yes.
Q.What sort of coats were they?
A.They were very dark blue, done with braiding—Officers coats.
Q.What coats were they?
A.Like Officers coats.
Q.What was the braiding?
A.It was to ornament the coats.
Q.What was it done in?
A.In flowers.
Q.Of worsted or silk?
A.Of worsted.
Q.What do you mean by opera hats?
A.Shutting together.
Q.Did you remark how the coats were lined?
A.One was lined with white silk.
Q.Were the coats alike, or did one appear of more rank than the other?
A.One appeared of more rank than the other; one was better than the other, and so was one of the hats.
Q.Were the hats plain or ornamented in any way?
A.One was black and the other ornamented on one side.
Q.What with?
A.With a brass plate or something of that kind at the end, and a gold tassel at each corner.
Q.Upon his producing them did he do any thing with them?
A.He put them on and asked me if he looked like an Officer, and I said yes, he did.
Q.What did he then do?
A.He went out again and came home again before one and brought some white ribband with him.
Q.Did you see him do any thing, or hear him say any thing about that white ribband?
A.Yes, he wanted two cockades to be made.
Q.To whom did he apply to make those cockades?
A.To his wife—they were to be made round.
Q.Was any thing said to him either by you or his wife as to the purpose, to which they should be applied?
A.His wife asked him what they were for, and what he was going to do with them, and he said they were to deceive the flats.
Q.Did you see what he did with the cockades?
A.He put them into his pocket and took the coats in his hand, and went out saying he must be at Billingsgate to go down to Gravesend by a quarter before two.
Q.What did he do with the hats?
A.He put them into the bundle.
Q.He then went away, did he?
A.Yes.
Q.When did you see Mr. M'Rae again?
A.About the same time the next day, about half-past one, or a quarter before two, I met him in Cursitor-street.
Q.Did he say any thing to you?
A.He gave me a shilling and asked me to go to the cook's shop for his dinner.
Q.Did any thing else pass in Cursitor-street between you?
A.No, not then, I went for his dinner.
Q.How was he dressed then?
A.Just the same as he went out—in his own cloaths.
Q.Had he any thing with him?
A.A bundle.
Q.Was that the same bundle he took out with him apparently?
A.He brought home one coat and one hat.
Q.Did you see the contents of that bundle when he got home?
A.Yes, the best coat and the best hat he brought home with him.
Q.Did he tell you where he had been?
A.He said he had slept at Northfleet, but he had the appearance of not having been a bed at all.
Q.He appeared tired?
A.He appeared very tired.
Q.Did he bring the cockades back?
A.Yes, he brought the cockades back in his pocket, the ribband was taken off.
Q.By whom?
A.By his wife; and the paper they were quilled on was thrown into the fire and the ribband made use of for strings, they had not buckram, and they made up the cockades on paper.
Q.Was any thing done with the coat?
A.They took the white lining out of the coat, and carried it to the Dyers to be dyed black.
Q.They said they should take it to the Dyers to be dyed black?
A.I know they took it out of the house to the Dyers, and the coat he wore.
Q.Before this how long had Mr. M'Rae lodged with you?
A.He lodged there before I went, he went about a week before me, I went in September.
Q.From September to February had you lodged together in that house?
A.Yes.
Q.Had you been acquainted with him and his wife?
A.Never before that, but at that house we kept but one fire; coals were very dear, and we lived a good deal together there.
Q.Had you any means of judging Mr. M'Rae's circumstances as to poverty or wealth?
Q.He was poor, he never had any money except it was a shilling or an eighteen penny piece.
Q.After this expedition to Northfleet, how did he appear in circumstances?
A.Oh, better; he had a £10. note and a £1. note, and the day before he left his lodgings he had three £2. notes.
Q.Do you mean before he finally left his lodgings?
A.Yes.
Q.When was that?
A.The second of March I think it was, the second or third to the best of my knowledge.
Q.Do you know of his purchasing any new cloaths for himself?
A.Yes, on the Sunday he bought a new coat, dark green, with yellow buttons.
Q.What Sunday was that?
A.Not the 20th.
Q.The Sunday after his return?
A.Yes.
Q.Did he buy any other articles of dress?
A.A new hat.
Q.On what day did he buy that?
A.The Monday.
Q.Was that the Monday after his return?
A.The Monday after he had bought his new coat.
Q.Did he tell you whether it had been a successful expedition to him?
A.He said he was to have £.50 for what he had done.
Q.Had you at any time any conversation with him about the nature of his journey?
A.No, never. He wished when he went away that it might be kept a secret where he was gone to; he did not wish any body to know where he was going to; he seemed very much agitated, and I desired he would not tell me that I might not tell any body else, and I did not know then.
Mr. Philip Foxall sworn.Examined by Mr. Bolland.
Q.You keep the Rose Inn at Dartford?
A.I do.
Q.Look at that letter, and tell me whether you received it at any time, and when, from the person whose name it bears?
A.I did.
Q.I see it purports to be from Mr. Sandom?
A.It was from Mr. Sandom.
Q.Did you know Mr. Sandom before that time?
A.I did, by his frequently having chaises ordered from my house?
Q.Did you execute that order?
A.Yes.
Q.And sent a chaise to bring the party to Dartford?
A.Yes; and I had horses ready, as the letter advised me.
Q.Had you sent chaises on a similar message before?
A.Yes I had, by messages, and by letter; and he also came down there in the chaise.
Lord Ellenborough.By a message in writing coming to you?
A.Yes sometimes; this came by a boy.
Q.You do not know his hand-writing?
A.No I do not.
The Letter was read as follows: