6896. How do you know that it was to buy slaves with?—From the fact of their being both engaged in the slave trade.
6897. Was Mr. Canôt at that time avowedly engaged in the slave trade?—Mr. Canôt had, a very few days before the arrival of the Echo, given up all his slaves and abandoned the slave trade. It was a mere accidental circumstance their finding that Mr. Canôt was not then carrying on the slave trade.
6898.Chairman.] They were consigned to him under the expectation that he was a slave dealer?—At the time the consignment took place he was a slave dealer, and no one at that time could have contemplated so sudden a change on his part.
6899. Mr.Milnes.] But at the time the Echo was there, Mr. Canôt was not engaged in the slave trade, and was under British protection?—Mr. Canôt had, a few days before, given up his slaves and abandoned the slave trade.
6900. But the parties who chartered the Echo could not have been aware of that fact?—They could not possibly have been aware of that fact.
6901. SirT. D. Acland.] Mr. Canôt was known to be concerned in the slave trade at the time the consignment was made?—Perfectly.
6902. Mr.Forster.] You do not think that Mr. Canôt in abandoning the slave trade, was at all influenced by the prospective arrival of this vessel, with a view to possessing himself of the cargo?—I do not see how he could have been influenced by that; because,under the circumstances, I could not have seized her, whether he had been carrying on the slave trade or not. On the other hand, although he had turned from the slave trade, yet, had I found any equipment upon her, I should have seized her. It made no difference whatever.
6903. Did he immediately avail himself of the services of the British squadron to remove the goods from New Cestos, the place to which they were consigned, to Monrovia?—It would be necessary to explain what had taken place at New Cestos with reference to Mr. Canôt, to understand what took place with respect to those goods. Mr. Canôt, on the 8th of December, voluntarily delivered his slaves to Lieutenant Seagram, commanding H. M. S. Termagant, stationed by me to blockade the place. Lieutenant Seagram then sailed, to land those slaves at Sierra Leone, carrying with him reports upon the subject for my information. I met at New Cestos his boats, and not having received any information from him, but only from the officer in charge of the boats, verbally, I left an order for him to the following effect: that if he was persuaded of Mr. Canôt’s integrity of purpose, and provided the slave trade was at an end, he was to afford him convenience and protection, and to assist him in establishing a factory for Redman & Co. at Cape Mount. After my departure, the goods consigned to Mr. Canôt were, I believe, landed at his factory, the supercargo being on board, and ready to object if there was any thing improper about it; and they were subsequently, according to the orders I had left, protected by Lieutenant Seagram, when embarked from the beach, the natives showing every disposition to resist the departure of Mr. Canôt.
6904. Mr.Milnes.] Did you hear any thing at Sierra Leone about a buoy, in which the papers of the Echo were said to have been concealed?—I saw a buoy at the registrar’s office, at the Vice-Admiralty Court, which was hollowed out with a scuttle, and I was told that the papers had been concealed in this buoy. I should state, that on searching the Echo, there was no search for papers, because papers under the treaty with Hamburgh would not have been sufficient to condemn her. Equipments were what I searched for.
6905. Would any papers that you could have found have been sufficient to condemn her under the treaty with Hamburgh?—Had I found papers distinctly proving that she was intended to take slaves, I should have taken upon myself the responsibility of sending her to Hamburgh for trial, according to the treaty; because, although not according to the letter of the treaty, I believe the spirit of the Hamburgh treaty is entirely true and just, and I believe it would have been enforced.
6906. Would any papers found upon her in British waters cause her to be condemned, which would not cause her to be condemned if found in other waters?—Papers found upon her in British waters, proving her to be engaged in the slave trade, might certainly condemn her under our laws, as coming under our jurisdiction.
6907. Mr.Forster.] Did the registrar inform you that the hollow place in the buoy was intended to conceal papers, or that paperswere found concealed in it?—He told me that papers had been concealed in it. He did not say that they had been found there, but that it had been used for that purpose.
6908. Did he say that papers of that nature had been found in it at Sierra Leone?—No, I think not.
6909. Mr.Milnes.] Have you known many instances of the crews of men-of-war boats remaining on board during a search of that kind, and conducting themselves improperly, taking articles out of the cargo for their own use?—Extremely rarely. In this instance I am aware that some of my ship’s company misbehaved themselves; but they, well knowing the punishment that awaited them, managed to desert.
6910. Did you order the return of the goods which they had taken?—There were no goods taken; I believe there was a bottle or two of champagne drunk.
6911. Did you order the men for punishment?—The men escaped; the master did not bring them back with him. They both died shortly afterwards, or rather one died and the other one was very badly wounded in the Termagant’s boats, and never returned to the Wanderer.
6912. Is it not very difficult to prevent the men from committing those abuses?—I think not when the officers are strictly vigilant; but upon this occasion Mr. Elliott had been induced to go on shore by some representations of Mr. Canôt, who wished to prove to him that his intentions were honest and upright as regarded his abandonment of the slave trade; and that accounted for it.
6913. Were the men left by themselves?—No, they were not; there were the officers of the Termagant employed also, in whose charge they were left.
6914. Mr.Forster.] What means do you suppose the master of the Echo would have at the Havannah of knowing the character and pursuits of Mr. Canôt, to whom he was consigned upon the charter-party?—If he had made the smallest inquiry, he could not have been in doubt for a moment.
6915. Where should he have made inquiry?—In the Havannah; Mr. Canôt was as well known in the Havannah as Pedro Blanco himself.
6916. Is it the duty of a merchant captain in search of trade at a foreign port to make inquiries as to the character and pursuits of his consignee in another country?—Applying it to an English captain, I should say that he was just as much bound to ascertain that he was not engaged in the slave trade as an apothecary, when he sells arsenic, is bound, as far as in him lies, to ascertain that it is not intended to poison any body.
6917. Mr.Milnes.] Is it common for a ship to be condemned, and for the captain at the same time to be declared not guilty of aiding and abetting in the slave trade?—It occurs frequently, upon the very principle of the difficulty of proof of the individual being wilfully and knowingly engaged in the slave trade.
6918. Is it supposed that a vessel can be engaged in the slave trade without the cognizance of the captain?—Engaged in the slavetrade indirectly, as the Hamburgh ship, the Echo, was, I think is possible; it is very unlikely.
6919. You would say generally, that where the ship was condemned and the captain escaped, it was through some want of legal proof?—Through the want of bringing home the proof of his having actual knowledge of the tendency of the trade in which he was engaged.
6920.Chairman.] Upon whom would the loss fall of the condemnation of the ship?—Upon the owners of the ship.
6921. The owners being in Hamburgh?—The owners being in Hamburgh.
6922. What control would they have over their ship in the Havannah, except through the medium of the captain?—They might have an agent there, who might be ordered to allow her to be taken up for freight to any part of the world, and who might send the goods on board; and the master might not know what part of Africa he was going to till the moment before he loosed sails.
6923. But a guilty knowledge on the part of some party is necessary to the condemnation of the vessel, is it not?—Yes, it is.
6924. In such cases as those, would the articles have nothing on the face of them in the character of equipment, to serve the purposes of the slave trade?—Not necessarily.
6925. Where can the guilty knowledge reside which shall condemn the vessel and the goods consigned, if the captain is supposed not to have possessed it?—The guilty knowledge, in my opinion, might be presumed. It is the duty of owners to take care that their ships are not turned into pirates or into smugglers, and if they are turned into smugglers or pirates, they must take the consequences; and so if they break other laws I conceive.
6926. Mr.Milnes.] Do you know other instances of ships being condemned, and the captains acquitted?—Yes; the Augusta, captured by Captain Hill, was a case of that description.
6927. Mr.Forster.] Is it not equally an offence on the part of the captain?—Undoubtedly so, if a guilty knowledge can be proved against him.
6928. You cannot prove a guilty knowledge in the case of the ship?—I think you may be able to show that the persons owning the ship or acting as agent for the owners may have had a guilty knowledge, where the master had no guilty knowledge.
6929. Mr.Milnes.] But you cannot legally sell the property of the captain when the captain himself is declared to be not guilty?—If the vessel was declared guilty by a proper court, undoubtedly that is a consequence of the condemnation.
6930. Would the individual property of the captain himself be included in the condemnation?—I believe the doctrine always has been, that the whole property on board the ship is vitiated by her being engaged in the slave trade. But these questions are all questions as to the construction of the Act of Parliament of the 5th of George the 4th, which I do not feel competent to interpret in this manner, although I see my way clearly enough to act upon it.
6931. Mr.Forster.] Do you consider that the mere conveyance asa common carrier of goods from the Havannah to the coast of Africa, is an act of slave dealing?—Not the common carrying of goods: but if she is carrying goods from Pedro Blanco to Mr. Canôt, I do not call that a common act of carrying. It is the act of carrying goods for a specific purpose between two persons engaged in a criminal trade.
6932. Mr.Milnes.] Could not Pedro Blanco and Mr. Canôt have mercantile communications which should be of an indisputably legal character?—They might, but they indisputably have no such commerce except in the smallest degree possible. There was some little palm-oil trade carried on by Mr. Canôt. I believe Mr. Canôt’s evidence was not taken upon the question, but Mr. Canot made no secret of the purposes to which that cargo would have been applied by him.
6933. Mr.Forster.] Supposing arsenic to be conveyed from London to Manchester, and there made an illegal use of, would you consider the carrier responsible in that case?—No, but I think that supposed case applies to the carriage of goods from England to the Havannah, and not from the Havannah to a slave factory in Africa. If you suppose the case of the person at the place to which the arsenic was sent, and the person who sends it, both being employed in poisoning people, I should think in that case the carrier would be culpable, supposing him to be aware of the fact.
6934. Do you consider it illegal for an English vessel to convey a cargo of merchandise from the Havannah to a person engaged in the slave trade on the coast of Africa?—Supposing they are sent by a person engaged in the slave trade.
6935. Do you consider it illegal for an English vessel to convey a cargo of goods to a notorious slave dealer at the Havannah?—No, I do not.
6936. On what ground do you draw the distinction between the two cases?—I think the one is more directly aiding and abetting the slave trade than the other; the other is in a much more remote degree. I have before stated that I thought it was morally wrong.
6937. Mr.Milnes.] Do you recollect whether the fitting up of the vessel was such that it could have taken back a cargo of slaves, supposing Mr. Canôt had still been concerned in the slave trade?—She would only have had to get a few casks and a few planks, and she might have taken back 700 or 800 slaves with the greatest ease Any vessel can be fitted up as a slaver.
6938. Then your impression is that that vessel arrived there expecting to find Mr. Canôt engaged in the slave trade, and was disappointed at finding that he had abandoned it?—Undoubtedly, they still supposed him to be engaged in the slave trade; but how far the disappointment went I cannot say. The goods were landed to him still, although there was a supercargo on board, which is a strong reason to suppose that Mr. Canôt was not robbing his employers, as was suggested.
6939. Mr.Forster.] Was it not the fact, that it was not till after they had been landed that the goods were removed to Cape Mount?—But they had been promised to be removed before. The promise wasgiven that his goods should be removed to Cape Mount, under the protection of the British flag, because it was well understood that the natives would resist the removal of Mr. Canôt; they wanted to have a slave dealer.
6940. What back cargo could the Echo have taken from Mr. Canôt, except slaves?—She could have taken nothing approaching to a cargo; there were a few casks of palm oil, but wholly insufficient for the cargo of such a vessel.
6941.Chairman.] Could she not have taken money?—She could have taken money or bills, but nothing in the shape of cargo.
6942. Is not the greater part of the slave trade on the coast of Africa carried on upon the principle of one vessel bringing a cargo and taking back money, and another vessel being employed to take away slaves?—It is. In most of those cases, the principal slave dealer is resident at the Havannah; and in all cases almost the freight of the former is paid for in the Havannah. There is no money or goods taken out in the vessel intended to carry back slaves.
6943. There is nothing, in the course of the slave trade on the coast of Africa, which leads you to imagine that a vessel which carries goods to the coast must necessarily intend to carry slaves back?—No; there is only one instance which I know, when I was upon the coast during the last two years, of such an attempt. With respect to Mr. Canôt, there is one fact with regard to his conduct which is highly in his favour. Some time after the slaves were delivered up, the natives got some goods from him, and tried to endeavour to induce him to resume the slave trade. They went and bought 50 slaves with those goods. He gave information on the subject, and through him the slaves were delivered up to Lieutenant Seagram. Throughout his whole conduct I have the strongest reason to suppose that he is most perfectly honest in his intention of abandoning the slave trade. He has always given me the fullest information with regard also to the resumption of the slave trade at New Cestos.
6944.Chairman.] You had a good deal of intercourse with Mr. Canôt?—A good deal. I used to receive communications from him, giving me information with respect to the slave trade.
6945. What appears to have been the moving cause to induce him to abandon the slave trade?—I have reason to believe that he had for some time contemplated it; but the immediate cause was, that under the blockade he found that he could not follow out the commerce; that he could not get the slaves away.
6946. Mr.Forster.] Was the captain cognizant of Mr. Canôt having abandoned the slave trade previously to the landing of the cargo?—He states it himself in his complaint. He states that it was so; that he saw the English flag flying.
6947. Do not you consider that strong proof, that the captain of the Echo was no party to the slave trading transactions going on between the shipper and the consignee?—I can only suppose that the property was Mr. Canôt’s, and that he as an honest man felt himself bound to give it to him. Had it been Pedro Blanco’s own property, sent by him for Mr. Canôt to buy slaves with, I think the property would not have been allowed to be landed.
6948. If the captain had been in the secret as to the transactions between the house at the Havannah and Mr. Canôt, the captain, to protect the house in the Havannah, finding that Mr. Canôt had abandoned the slave trade, would not have delivered the goods?—He was paid for his freight. I suppose he did not care what became of the goods. Had he not landed the goods, he would have had to carry them back; he would have been unable to take freight back.
6949. Mr.Milnes.] Was none of the freight landed?—I believe all that was consigned to Mr. Canôt was landed after I sailed.
6950. How would Mr. Canôt have paid for it?—I have no idea how it was paid for. There are three theories to choose amongst; one is, that he robbed his employer’s goods without any set-off; another is, that his employers owed him something equivalent at least to the value of the goods; and the third is, that they were his own property. I refused to enter into the subject with him at all; I had nothing to do with his slave transactions; had it been amenable to seizure I should have seized it.
6951. CaptainFitzroy.] Does the slave trade increase or decrease, at the time of the senior officer on the station being changed?—It has generally been observed in the printed correspondence of the commissioners, and also from the observations of the officers on the coast, that the senior officers not having a practical knowledge of the coast, upon their first arrival there the cruizing is much less efficient for a certain time. It requires a long time for an officer to understand the duties of the coast.
6952. You have understood that frequently changing the officers is injurious to the suppression of the slave trade?—Such is my opinion; I think that three years is the proper time for an officer to be employed there. I think the service would suffer if they were removed more frequently.
6953. How long, speaking generally, does it take for an officer to acquire a tolerably competent knowledge of the duties on that coast?—Several months, certainly.
6954. Are the cruizers now obliged to leave their stations frequently, to get provisions?—They are obliged to leave their stations generally once in three or four months for that purpose, and during that period, of course, the slavers frequently escape. The period is longer or shorter, according to the distance of the depôts.
6955. Do not the slave traders generally obtain accurate information of the periods at which the cruizers will probably be absent?—They frequently do so by reasoning, and by observing the time at which the cruizers have received their supplies.
6956. Does the present state of the Bounty Acts afford due encouragement to exertions for the prevention of the slave trade, or might an alteration be made which would do more justice to those who are affected by those Acts?—In my opinion the present system of bounties is upon an extremely bad footing. It affords a great premium upon the capture of full vessels over empty vessels; whereas I believe the slave trade is to be stopped by the prevention of embarkation.
6957. How could the Act be altered, in your opinion, so as tomake less difference between full vessels and empty vessels?—My opinion is, that there should be no difference whatever between them; that they should be paid upon the tonnage a bounty, calculated upon the average between the profit of a full vessel and an empty vessel of the same tonnage; that there should be no more head-money whatever; that the proceeds should not go to the captors; that the proceeds should go to the Government; that the reward of the captors should be only upon the tonnage.
6958. Abolishing head-money altogether?—Abolishing head-money altogether.
6959.Chairman.] Do you conceive that Sierra Leone is well situated as a place for adjudication, under the present circumstances of the slave trade?—I think that it is the best place, under the present circumstances of the slave trade.
6960. CaptainFitzroy.] Can you suggest any improvement in the rigging of the ships employed on the coast, or in the boats with which they are furnished?—The cruizers employed upon the coast have the same masts and sails precisely in them as they would have in the North Sea, their duties lying altogether in the Tropics. In my opinion, with the same masts, a large increase of canvass, by making the sails squarer, would be of the utmost advantage.
6961. Are the boats now used the best adapted for that particular service?—I think every vessel, capable of carrying them, ought to carry two long six-oared galleys at her quarters, and that those that carry boats amidship should have as large boats as they can stow, and that they should be built so lightly as to be able to keep pace with the galleys. A much larger proportion have been captured by boats than by cruizing.
MEMBERS PRESENT.
Sir T. D. Acland.Mr. Aldam.Captain Fitzroy.Mr. Forster.Mr. W. Hamilton.Mr. Milnes.
Sir T. D. Acland.Mr. Aldam.Captain Fitzroy.
Sir T. D. Acland.Mr. Aldam.Captain Fitzroy.
Sir T. D. Acland.Mr. Aldam.Captain Fitzroy.
Mr. Forster.Mr. W. Hamilton.Mr. Milnes.
Mr. Forster.Mr. W. Hamilton.Mr. Milnes.
Mr. Forster.Mr. W. Hamilton.Mr. Milnes.
Viscount Sandonin the chair.
Captain the HonourableJoseph Denman,R. N., called in; and further examined.
6962.Chairman.] Can you give the Committee any information with regard to the Kroo Coast; first as to the extent of the Kroo Coast?—The Kroo Coast, I conceive, begins at the river Cestros, the place known as St. George’s, where Mr. Spence had established a factory several years ago, which has been recently abandoned. The Kroomen occupy only five towns upon the coast at different places between the river Cestros and the Grand Cestros; to the northwardof that the Bassa people lie intermixed with the Fishmen, and, occupying all the coast to the southward of the Grand Cestros, are the Fishmen, a different people from the Kroomen; they are often confounded with them, but there is a broad distinction between them. Intermixed with the five Kroo towns are many Fish places. The Kroomen occupy the interior of the country more than the Fishmen; the Fishmen are entirely upon the coast. Below Grand Cestros they are all Fish towns. The Fish people are much more numerous than the Kroomen. At a place called by the Fishmen Saucy Town, the natives from the interior fought their way down to the beach.
6963. What were they?—We have no means of knowing; they are quite different from any other races that we know of; at this the Fishmen are exceedingly angry, as they consider that they have a title to all the trade upon the coast. They have prohibited all trade with this place, and have committed many outrages against British vessels and others who have traded there in spite of their prohibition. The Fishmen are perfect pests to the trade upon the coast; they require keeping in order very much.
6964. Are they principally Kroomen or Fishmen who enter on board Her Majesty’s ships?—More Fishmen than Kroomen; we cannot employ them together.
6965. Is it the same with reference to mercantile vessels?—I am not aware, but I think the Fishmen are generally preferred, as they are more at home with boats and more accustomed to live on the water than the Kroomen.
6966. Do you call those principally Kroomen or Fishmen that live at Sierra Leone?—Both classes exist there, but I am not aware in what proportions; the Kroomen are preferred for domestic purposes; they are much more capable of attachment to white people.
6967. Have you any idea what the population is, whether of Fishmen or of Kroomen?—The population of the coast of Fishmen is much greater than that of Kroomen, but I always understood that the Kroomen ran a long way into the interior, and were an agricultural race; indeed if it was not so, I do not see how they could possibly exist against the hostility of the Fishmen, as their numbers on the sea-coast are very inferior; they are almost always at war.
6968. Are both Fishmen and Kroomen exempt from becoming slaves?—They are exempt from becoming slaves; at the only slave factories upon the coast, between Sierra Leone and Cape Palmas, Gallinas, and New Cestos, the work was entirely carried on by Fishmen, but they have a great objection to being slaves themselves; they are in the habit of sacrificing their enemies taken in war to the Fetish tree.
6969. Are you speaking of Fishmen or of Kroomen now?—Both; I have had opportunities of knowing that that is the fact.
6970. Do those parties bring slaves from distant parts in the interior, or is it upon neighbouring tribes that they make inroads in order to procure slaves?—I do not think the Fishmen or Kroomen are in the habit of collecting slaves at all; but they are very willing to lend themselves out to slave factories, to assist them in carrying on the traffic in every way.
6971. And to allow their territory to be made a place of embarkationfor slaves?—I believe not; indeed there is no embarkation of slaves in their territory; nor nearer than Young Cestos.
6972. SirT. D. Acland.] Their willingness to hire themselves out to slavers is merely as a means of active employment?—Exactly so.
6973. Not from any preference to that employment?—They prefer it, I believe, because they are better paid for that than any thing else.
6974.Chairman.] Have you had any opportunity of knowing the domestic condition of the Kroomen or the Fishmen; whether they are under the obligations of slavery to any parties?—No, there is no slavery in the Kroo or Fish country, although the system of every headman having his boys under him approaches something to it. The headman receives all the wages of all the boys under him; whether that is from family connexion, or from political institution, I do not know, but the headman receives all the pay of all the boys. A headman on board a man-of-war, for instance, will have 20 men under him, and he receives the whole of their wages.
6975. Do you always take on board a headman, for every number of Kroomen or Fishmen that you engage?—It is absolutely necessary to have a headman to keep them in order; he generally chooses all the people, we leave it to him to choose them. If Fishmen and Kroomen happen to be mixed up in the same party there are always quarrels and disturbances, indeed there is no getting on with them, so strong is the antipathy.
6976. SirT. D. Acland.] Do you think, from what you know of those people, that they would be disposed to engage themselves as labourers in the West Indies, if proper means were taken to acquaint them with the nature of the service?—If proper means were taken, I have not the least doubt they might get thousands of them; the thing necessary is to produce confidence in their minds, and that would best be done by some man-of-war upon the coast taking over some of the headmen, upon a promise that they should be returned by the same ship.
6977.Chairman.] You believe that they have confidence in a man-of-war?—I believe they have the greatest confidence in a man-of-war, and also in the English people; but they might fancy that abuses might take place, and that they might be made slaves of, unless they had the evidence of some of their own people.
6978. SirT. D. Acland.] Do you think it would be possible for a man-of-war to discharge the duty of securing against any possible abuse in their embarkation?—I do not think it would be at all necessary to have a man-of-war for that purpose. I think you might safely leave them to take care of themselves. The only purpose for which a man-of-war need interfere, would be to give them a feeling of confidence in the first instance. They might object to go over in any thing but a man-of-war. I think the first impression is all that a man-of-war would be required for.
6979. Do you think these people might not take others with them against their will?—I think not; I do not think they hold slaves in any way; the mark of the race is so very distinct, that other races could not be mixed with them as emigrants without detection.
6980.Chairman.] You think that the connexion between the chiefsand those companies of boys is rather a voluntary connexion, for the purpose of protection, than one of compulsion?—It is a voluntary connexion, because it exists equally strongly at Sierra Leone as any where else.
6981. SirT. D. Acland.] Have you any doubt that the commanders of one of Her Majesty’s ships could effectually prevent any embarkation of the natives against their will?—I do not think there would be the smallest necessity for a man-of-war to superintend the coast, except at first.
6982. Supposing no landing were allowed in the West Indies without a certificate of one of Her Majesty’s officers, would it be easy for the officer, before he gave such a certificate, to take effectual security against being imposed upon by the delivery of a person without his full consent?—It would be very easy to ascertain the fact; but the Kroo and Fish race are so distinct from all others, that I do not think there is the smallest apprehension of its taking the form of slavery.
6983. You mean so far as regards any embarkation from that part of the coast?—Yes, in British ships.
6984. Would it be equally safe on other parts of the coast?—It would be impossible in other parts, without perpetuating the slave trade, in my opinion.
6985.Chairman.] What would be the difference between the two cases?—There are no other races upon the coast who leave their country voluntarily to labour. The only way in which it could possibly be expected that the natives would be obtained from any other part of the coast would be upon compulsion and upon sale, upon positive sale and nominal manumission afterwards, before embarkation; but that would hold out the same inducements to internal slave trade in Africa as the slave trade to Brazils or Cuba.
6986. SirT. D. Acland.] You think it would be impossible to guard against fraud in that case?—It would be impossible to establish such a plan without perpetuating the slave trade.
6987.Chairman.] On the Fish Coast, and on the Kroo Coast, you would not apprehend that the advantage given by any little presents to the chiefs on the departure of any of their people for the West Indies, might induce them to bring negroes from other parts of the country for the purpose of emigration?—I think negroes from other parts of the country would be immediately distinguished from the Kroomen.
6988. The security, then, you think would consist in the external marks of the Kroo and Fish people?—Yes. Moreover, the Kroomen and the Fishmen, on landing in the West Indies, would be always able to tell their own story; to speak English enough to make their case known.
6989. You do not mean that the Kroomen living inland speak English?—I suppose not; but all that I have ever seen have managed to make themselves understood; indeed I think it is possible they might have some idea of the English language inland, it is so universal amongst all that I have seen. It would be very easy to follow the plan supposed, to have a man-of-war stationed in thatquarter, and known to be at a certain place; it would be very easy to require every emigrant ship to visit her, and receive a certificate from the captain before she sailed for the West Indies.
6990. Would you feel any difficulty in ascertaining certainly, against possibility of fraud, that those people werebonâ fidevolunteers?—There would not be the smallest difficulty.
6991.Chairman.] You would call up the men and be able to ask them, either directly in English, or through interpreters, the circumstances under which they embarked?—Yes.
6992. And ascertain their knowledge of the object of the embarkation?—Yes; nothing would be more easy or more certain.
6993. SirT. D. Acland.] Supposing any man embarked were to say that he did not wish to go, what would you do with him?—He must give his presents back that he has received and go back himself.
6994. If he had been sent on board by compulsion, would he not run some risk on his landing?—I think it altogether repugnant to the customs of the country to force people on board; I do not think it is a thing at all to be apprehended.
6995. Mr.Aldam.] You think there would be no more difficulty in emigration from the Kroo Coast to the West Indies than in emigration from England to Canada?—There would be scarcely more difficulty; I should feel quite confident, that with the commonest care upon the part of the Governments in the West India islands, such a thing could not be abused.
6996. You think the one is as liable to abuse as the other?—Yes: I think the emigration from the coast of Africa would require a little more looking after.
6997. But the captain of a man-of-war might perform every duty that the emigration agent now performs in an English port?—Yes; I think a man-of-war stationed in the neighbourhood might do so.
6998. SirT. D. Acland.] Do you think the Kroomen would be willing to leave their families?—I think they would be perfectly willing to remove without their families; you could not get them to take their families.
6999. For what length of time?—For three or four years; they have the greatest objection to remove their women; indeed it is impossible for any race to be more obstinately attached to their own habits and prejudices than the Kroo and the Fish races.
7000. Therefore their engagement would be of a temporary nature?—There is scarcely such a thing known as a Krooman to be absent from his country more than seven years.
7001. Mr.Aldam.] Would their absence in the West Indies, and the habits they would be likely to acquire there, tend to improve the manners of the people at home, upon their return?—I think it would have that effect to some small extent.
7002. And to introduce civilization?—To a very small extent; I do not think that much could be expected without other means.
7003. SirT. D. Acland.] Have they any means of education?—None whatever.
7004.Chairman.] They have no contact with any white men,except some that come for the purpose of trading upon the coast?—And at the settlements of Sierra Leone and Liberia.
7005. SirT. D. Acland.] Do they take opportunities of acquiring instruction on board ships?—No, I think not, except what they must learn to do their duties.
7006. Do they show any disposition to learn to read and write?—Not at all.
7007. Do you think that having learned the cultivation of sugar in the West Indies, they would be likely to introduce the same cultivation in their own country?—I think that at present they are not sufficiently enlightened to make it very probable.
7008.Chairman.] Would the effect of considerable emigration from the Kroo Coast be to raise the rate of wages of the Kroomen employed in the navy, and on board merchant ships?—I should think very probably it might have that effect, but the wages now paid on board ships of war are much higher than are paid anywhere else.
7056.Chairman.] Have you considered the subject of the removal of the Mixed Commission Court from Sierra Leone?—I have. I have heard that the places named as preferable are Fernando Po, Accra, and Ascension. The first is a foreign possession, and not to be purchased, therefore utterly out of the question. The second has dangerous anchorage; no harbour or place for breaking up ships, no territory for location, no market for goods, and no community of which liberated Africans could become a part. The third is a desert, the 150 persons now living there being victualled, as at sea, on salt provisions. Since 1839, at the latter end of which we were for the first time enabled really to attack the slave trade, the number of Africans liberated by the Mixed Commission Court has been extremely small; and this diminution may be regarded as a test of success, the grand object being to guard the coast and prevent the embarkation of slaves. In 1840 the number emancipated at Sierra Leone amounted to but 732, and in the first half of 1841 to but 291, and of these not one-sixth died between capture and emancipation. Sierra Leone is far preferable to any other place for the location of liberated Africans, there being already a large and prosperous community, comprising natives of every African race, who receive among them their newly-emancipated countrymen, and regard them with the utmost sympathy, assisting them in every way, and instructing them in the language and customs of the colony. It frequently happens that near relations are again united, and the transports of joy on such occasions well vindicate the African from the charge so often repeated. The marked inferiority of the liberated Africans who have been sent to the Gambia is owing to their small numbers, in a community having no sympathies with them, and from whom they are as much separated as from the white inhabitants; and I would ask whether intercourse with the Fantees of the Gold Coast would civilize or improve them to a greater extent?
7057. What is your opinion as to the advantage of transporting the slaves as soon as they are emancipated, from Sierra Leone to the West Indies?—The treaties embodied in the Act of the 5th of Geo. 4, provide that slaves shall be located in the territory of thenation of the capturing cruizer. This provision is fulfilled, when slaves captured by a British cruizer are emancipated at Sierra Leone. When slaves so captured are emancipated at Havannah, they should be removed to whichever of the British West India islands it is honestly believed they will be best placed for their own welfare and happiness. I utterly deny the right to consult the interests of any other parties whatever in their location. It has been argued that it would be beneficial to Sierra Leone to send negroes after emancipation in the West Indies, and that the Act in question authorises the Government to compel slaves emancipated under its provisions to serve in the Army or Navy, or to send them where it pleases. But to carry this provision out to its full extent would be but to perpetuate their slavery, contrary to the whole spirit of the Act; nor could the forcible removal of these poor creatures from an asylum containing thousands of their countrymen, and possibly many of their near kindred, be rendered justifiable by any consideration whatever. I have seen a cargo of slaves, after the completion of one voyage across the Atlantic, condemned to another for their own supposed benefit; and I can bear witness to the horror of the victims, when they found themselves once more on the “middle passage.”
7058. What circumstance do you allude to?—The vessel which I stated before, that I took from Rio Janeiro to Sierra Leone, a slave ship, with a cargo of slaves which had arrived there, and had been there seized. Further I would say, let the subject be considered with regard to foreign governments. The Dutch government not long ago purchased slaves at Elmina, who, after nominal enfranchisement, were forcibly transported to the island of Java. It is undoubted, that a vessel employed in carrying them would be subject to capture by a British cruizer, and condemnation at Sierra Leone. Had such a case occurred, and the negroes after emancipation been immediately transported to Trinidad, or to Demerara without their own consent, how could such a transaction be vindicated in the eyes of Europe? Voluntary emigration from Sierra Leone may very properly be encouraged by all fair means. The number of emigrants cannot, however, amount to any considerable extent, compared with the wants of the West Indies.
7059. Mr.Forster.] Are you well acquainted with the land in the neighbourhood of Accra?—No; I have not been to Accra. I only know that the British settlement is confined to the walls of the fort.
7060. Are you aware of any difficulty that would arise in acquiring territory in the neighbourhood of Accra?—I believe there would be no difficulty; but it is the fact that we have no territory now.
7061. But if it were deemed advisable to establish the Mixed Commission Court there, are you aware of any difficulty in acquiring territory for the purpose of locating the liberated Africans?—No; I believe that territory might be obtained if it were desirable in other respects. But I believe it is not desirable in other respects.
7062. CaptainFitzroy.] Have any liberated Africans been employed at Ascension; and if so, how have they conducted themselves?—Ihave a letter from a gentleman who was adjutant in the Island of Ascension, under whom those Africans were employed, Lieutenant Wade. I beg leave to state that in this letter, as regards the first party to which he alludes, from my own knowledge I can say that he has very much understated the difficulty that existed with them. They were very troublesome in every way. He expressed to me verbally, in the strongest terms, the contrast between the people who had not received the benefit of residence at Sierra Leone, and those who had.
[The letter was delivered in, and read as follows:]
Sir,London, 23 June, 1842.I have the honour to address to you the following facts relative to the liberated Africans employed by Government on the Island of Ascension, and which you may be pleased to lay before the African Committee for their information.The liberated Africans attached to the establishment are 33 in number, and are relieved every three years if they wish it; they are paid in three classes. The first class receive 6d.and the lowest 4d., according to their merits; they receive a full ration of provisions, but no spirits, except the head man, who is paid and victualled as the marines.I was three years on the island, the last two as adjutant, and as such these people were more immediately under my control; and therefore I am enabled to speak confidently as to their general conduct.I found them easily managed, especially the last party which arrived in December 1840, who being residents at Sierra Leone for many years, were most useful and intelligent men; most of them had learned to read and write, and several had been brought up to trades and were industrious; whereas the former party, who were sent direct from the slave-yard (as it is commonly termed), were difficult to instruct, owing to their ignorance of the English language.Each man is permitted to bring his wife.I have, &c.To Captain the HonourableJoseph Denman,R.N.(signed)Jno. Wade, Lieut.R.N.
Sir,London, 23 June, 1842.
I have the honour to address to you the following facts relative to the liberated Africans employed by Government on the Island of Ascension, and which you may be pleased to lay before the African Committee for their information.
The liberated Africans attached to the establishment are 33 in number, and are relieved every three years if they wish it; they are paid in three classes. The first class receive 6d.and the lowest 4d., according to their merits; they receive a full ration of provisions, but no spirits, except the head man, who is paid and victualled as the marines.
I was three years on the island, the last two as adjutant, and as such these people were more immediately under my control; and therefore I am enabled to speak confidently as to their general conduct.
I found them easily managed, especially the last party which arrived in December 1840, who being residents at Sierra Leone for many years, were most useful and intelligent men; most of them had learned to read and write, and several had been brought up to trades and were industrious; whereas the former party, who were sent direct from the slave-yard (as it is commonly termed), were difficult to instruct, owing to their ignorance of the English language.
Each man is permitted to bring his wife.
I have, &c.
I have, &c.
To Captain the HonourableJoseph Denman,R.N.(signed)Jno. Wade, Lieut.R.N.
To Captain the HonourableJoseph Denman,R.N.
To Captain the HonourableJoseph Denman,R.N.
(signed)Jno. Wade, Lieut.R.N.
(signed)Jno. Wade, Lieut.R.N.
7063. Mr.Forster.] As you appear to consider Sierra Leone as a desirable place for landing and locating the liberated Africans, how do you account for so little progress having hitherto been made in agricultural improvement and in carrying civilization into the interior from that part, up to the present time?—I consider that the liberated Africans of Sierra Leone have made a wonderful advance, comparing them with their condition when landed from the slave ships.
7064. Is it not the fact that no progress has been made in cultivation or in planting in the neighbourhood of Sierra Leone?—No advance has been made because there has been no inducement held out to them; but the people have made wonderful strides, in my opinion, in civilization, and the condition of the liberated Africans is quite extraordinary, comparing them with the state in which they were landed, considering the very short time that has elapsed since the first Africans were liberated there from the slave ships.
7065. Is it not upwards of twenty years that the system has been going on there, and would not that afford ample time for greater improvementthan is perceived there at this moment?—Considering the great numbers that during the twenty years have been landed from the slave ships, and their condition, I think the advance is more than could have been expected, considering that no inducement has been held out to agricultural pursuits.
7066. Are you acquainted with the banks of the Gambia and the land in the neighbourhood of our settlement there?—I have been in the Gambia a good deal; I cannot say that I have any perfect knowledge of the banks of the river.
7067. Would you think that the Gambia affords a more desirable location than Sierra Leone for cultivation?—I think, perhaps, for that particular object it may, but I am not at all sure of that.
7068.Chairman.] Sierra Leone furnishes very little exportable produce of its own?—I am not aware that it exports any thing of its own, but the country we are about to purchase affords means of raising produce, if it is encouraged; I mean the Quia country.
7069. You think it desirable that the limits of the colony of Sierra Leone should be extended?—I think undoubtedly, both up the river and coastwise; I consider that the plans of General Turner were in the utmost degree wise and enlightened, and it is very much to be regretted that they were not followed up.
7070. SirT. D. Acland.] When you say coastwise, do you mean north or south?—I think south to Cape Mount, where a settlement is already established, I would purchase the sovereignty, and establish one or two settlements between Cape Mount and Sierra Leone.
7071. Including the Sherboro’?—Including the Sherboro’; Boom Kittam General Turner already had. With regard to the Gambia I should wish to observe, that to bring forth the resources of that colony a steamer on the river is indispensably necessary, and in my opinion she would pay her own expenses, if she were allowed to carry light goods up and down for the merchants, as a sort of packet.
7072.Chairman.] Would there be any difficulty in manning a steamer almost entirely with blacks, so as to expose very little, if any, white life to the risks attending the navigation of the river?—For the services of colonial steamers, I believe they might be entirely manned with black people, and in the course of a few years, even with black engineers.
7073. Mr.Forster.] Are you aware that the French have two or three steam boats generally on the Senegal?—I am aware that the French have steamers, that they are exercising the utmost rivalry against British commerce upon the coast, and that they derive the greatest possible advantages over British commerce by the use of those steamers.
7074.Chairman.] Is there any thing at present to prevent the establishment of mercantile steamers, either at Sierra Leone or at the Gambia, as a private venture?—As a private venture, certainly not; but it would not be worth the while of any individuals to make the speculation.
7075. SirT. D. Acland.] Are the French steamers government steamers?—They are government steamers attached to the colony of Senegal.
7076.Chairman.] What sized steamers would be required for the purpose that you contemplate?—I should say very small steamers for the Gambia itself; as small as the London boats that run above bridge; but their services would be required entirely for that river, and perhaps for the Casamanza.
7077. Mr.Forster.] Would not a steamer on the Gambia be very important for the Government communication with Macarthy’s Island, and generally up the river?—It is the only way that settlements up the river can be supported or protected in my opinion; it would have the effect of quadrupling the force there now, and it is the only means by which we can, in my opinion, bring out the resources of the upper parts of the river, which are so great.
7078.Chairman.] Is the force of the current generally so strong as to render it extremely difficult to navigate up the stream with sailing vessels?—It frequently takes a week or 10 days to get a good-sized vessel up to Macarthy’s Island, where now our highest settlement is; but we should have one still higher.
7079. You conceive that there are immense resources up the river?—I do; I believe that a supply of gum might be obtained at the Gambia equal to that which we have been deprived of by the French at Portendique, if proper measures were taken. At Portendique, for the last two years, there has been no trade at all.
7080. Mr.Forster.] In your former evidence, in answer toquestion 6674, in reference to the importance of British settlements for the suppression of the slave trade, you say “I spoke more particularly of Sierra Leone, at the same time the connection of the Gambia trade with the slave trade is a fact that there is no doubt about;” are the Committee to understand that you mean that Sierra Leone and the Gambia are on the same footing in that respect?—I think they have assisted the slave trade in very different ways; one way in which they have both assisted, is by the sale of vessels to the slave dealers; but the trade in the Gambia goes hand in hand with the slave trade of Bissao, as I before stated; at Sierra Leone it has been more directly by the sale of vessels, and some few goods passing down through their hands to the Gallinas and elsewhere.
7081. Will you have the goodness to explain to the Committee your meaning in saying that “the connection of the Gambia trade with the slave trade is a fact that there is no doubt about”?—I should have said the external trade of the Gambia; the trade up the river is another thing. As regards the external trade of the Gambia, the greater part of the trade is through the hands of notorious slave dealers, who sell produce, and give money to the Gambia merchants, and who in return receive goods from the Gambia; and those goods are the means again of purchasing slaves and produce; that is a connection which I consider is a very direct one.
7082.Chairman.] You do not mean, that merchants trading at the Gambia are themselves personally interested in any slave trade adventures, or have any share in the profit or loss of such transactions?—No; I have no reason to suppose that such is the case directly.
7083. SirT. D. Acland.] Do you mean to say that the goods so furnished to the slave dealer are essential to the maintenance of theslave traffic?—I believe they might get goods elsewhere, if those were not supplied by the Gambia merchants.
7084. But still goods from some part are essential to the maintenance of the slave traffic?—Indispensable; all their slaves are bought with British goods.
7085.Chairman.] Could they not obtain their slaves solely with money?—I think not.
7086. SirT. D. Acland.] What is the state of civilization of the people upon the Gambia?—The banks of the Gambia have been disturbed for several years by a man of the name of Kemingtang, and a great deal too much forbearance has been used towards him. I do not think the people in general upon the banks are in an advanced state of civilization, by any means.
7087. Its progress has been interrupted by this man’s disturbance?—This man has occasioned mischief, but I do not think it was making progress to any extent.
7088. Mr.Forster.] You appear to distinguish between legitimate and illegitimate trade by the mode of payment; that is to say, according to whether the payment is in money or in produce?—I have already said that, strictly speaking, in the strict sense of the term, “legitimate trade,” that is, trade which has no communication with the slave trade in any way whatever, is that in which goods are exchanged for produce.
7089. Would you recommend or expect that a trader on the coast of Africa should refuse dollars in payment of his goods to any body?—In cases where he knew that no use could be made of those goods but to purchase slaves, I think he would be bound to do so; and I think if he did not he should be subjected to the penalties of the Act.
7090. Supposing the British traders of Bissao were to refuse money from the Spaniards, would you recommend that they should refuse money also from the natives in exchange for their goods?—I have stated that I do not recommend that they should refuse money from any body, except in cases where the trade must necessarily be going on to supply the slave trade exclusively. In cases where slave trade and produce trade exist together, I do not think it would be possible, and I do not think it would be desirable to endeavour to prevent the trade from going on; I have stated that fully in the former part of my evidence.
7091.Chairman.] You would, if possible, devise some means by which English trade, although in lawful goods, with settlements purely confined to slave trading, such as the Gallinas, should be prevented?—Precisely; that is my view.
7092. As long as the prize vessels are sold at Sierra Leone, will there not be great practical difficulty in preventing those vessels getting ultimately into the hands of the slave dealers, whether you can prevent it at the first hand or not?—I think the longer the interval that elapsed before they got into the hands of the slave dealers, the better. I think that British subjects selling vessels adapted only for the slave trade into the hands of notorious slave dealers, should be renderedsubject to penalties; but I admit the difficulty of preventing the eventual return of such vessels into the hands of slave dealers.
7093. You think it very desirable, if possible, that the system of breaking up vessels should be further extended?—I think it should be applied universally to slave ships.
7094. Is there any English law which you would wish to see amended in that respect?—Under the Act 5 Geo. 4, under which a vessel in British waters would be condemned for carrying on the slave trade, there is no provision for breaking up the vessel; and consequently vessels condemned under that Act are sold to the highest bidder. I certainly think it is desirable that a clause should be inserted in the act for the purpose.
7095. Mr.Forster.] You have stated in your former evidence that the public auctioneer is obliged to knock down the vessel to the highest bidder. Would you recommend that the public auctioneer should be subject to penalties for selling a vessel to the agent of a slave dealer?—I have before stated that he is not subject to penalties; he is a Government agent employed according to law.
7096. CaptainFitzroy.] You have stated that the cruizers should be withdrawn from the western coast of the Atlantic, their efforts against the slave trade there being comparatively ineffectual. Can you give any further reason for that opinion than the one you have expressed?—The cruizers upon the coast of Cuba or Brazil, cruize under much greater disadvantages than they formerly did upon the coast of Africa, before the Equipment articles came into force; and moreover, the immense number of merchant vessels always in sight about those parts of the coast is, I think, another reason against attempting to suppress the slave trade upon that side of the Atlantic. And there is besides another subject of greatly increased importance, the inconvenience that would arise from the exercise of the right of search in that quarter.
7097.Chairman.] You mean to say, that in consequence of coming into contact with a much greater number of vessels of different descriptions, the right of search, if exercised there, would be more obnoxious, and lead to greater difficulties with the countries upon whose vessels we should exercise it?—It could never be fully exercised with regard to the vessels that were there, and the exercise of it would involve 50 searches for one upon the coast of Africa.
7098. In the one case you only have to search the African trade, in the other case you have to search the whole trade of those countries on the American coast?—Yes.
7099. CaptainFitzroy.] You have stated the disproportion between the emolument derived by the captains of cruizers from the capture of slavers after the embarkation of the slaves, compared with that derived from the capture of empty vessels, to be very great, and altogether unjust; can you give the Committee any further information upon this subject?—I have here an account of two vessels, captured under the Equipment articles by me, one measuring 57 tons and the other 43 tons; the aggregate of the proceeds of both these vessels for distribution to the captors was 576l.6s.5d.Anothervessel of 48 tons was captured by me, with slaves on board; the proceeds for distribution upon this single vessel amounted to 1,654l.19s.5d., nearly three times as much as the two empty ships, measuring together 100 tons.
7100.Chairman.] Can you state how many slaves could have been carried by the two empty ships, in case they had been allowed to have been filled?—There might have been 700 slaves in those two ships.
7101. SirT. D. Acland.] How many were there in the other?—Forty-eight tons and 350 slaves. With regard to the capture of these vessels, the empty vessels were captured upon the principle of blockade, a service of the most harassing, tiresome, and arduous description. The full vessel was, as it must be in most cases, captured by chance.
7102. How would you propose to arrange it?—I would take the whole of the sums payable upon captured vessels during any given year, and upon that I would calculate what it amounted to per ton, and I would give that bounty for the future upon every vessel, as a substitute for the head-money, for the payments now made.
7103. CaptainFitzroy.] You have stated in your former evidence, that, six weeks after you were at New Cestos destroying the slave factory, a slaver was there again; can you offer any explanation of that circumstance?—The slave factory at New Cestos was abandoned in December 1840. The factories were left standing, to form a palm-oil factory, at the request of some British traders. I however understood that the prince was endeavouring to get a slave-dealer to re-establish himself in this factory, and I therefore, in the middle of April, burned down the buildings. On the 8th of June a new factor arrived from the Havannah and landed his goods, but no slaves were taken away till October. Three or four days after the slaves were carried off the blockade was re-established, and there could be no more.
7104. It has been stated, in answer to question 5968, that you thought you had put an effectual stop to the slave trade at the Gallinas by the destruction of the factories; was that your own opinion?—I beg to refer the Committee to the third paragraph from the bottom of a letter in the correspondence relative to the Gallinas, at page 9, in which I state that “I believe they will endeavour still to prosecute the slave trade.”
7105. Mr.Forster.] Is it your opinion that the British traders on the coast of Africa, and those connected with them, are more deeply interested in the suppression of the slave trade than any other class of British subjects?—In general they are; but there are some instances in which particular merchants derive great advantages from the connexion. There can be no question that it is for the interests of commerce that the slave trade should be put down; but there may be particular instances where British merchants derive great profits from their connexion with it.
7106. But generally, you are of opinion that the British merchants are decidedly interested in the trade being put down?—I have no doubt of it at all.
7107.Chairman.] You believe that wherever the trade in slaves is put down, a more profitable trade might be carried on in its place in the form of manufactures in exchange for produce?—Undoubtedly more profitable, both to the natives and to the persons trading with them.
7108. When you speak of individuals being interested, you mean that there are individuals incidentally benefited by the commerce which the slave trade gives rise to in that country?—Precisely; that is what I mean. For instance, supposing the slave traders at the Gallinas had been supplied by a British commercial house, that probably would have been more profitable to them than any prospect of produce trade after the slave trade of the Gallinas was destroyed.
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