CHAPTER XIII.

Moved to Indianapolis—Extensive Traveling—Henry Ward Beecher—A Fossiled Calvinist—Supposed to be an Orthodox Preacher—Debate in New Philadelphia—Strife Between the North and South—The Old Convention Dead—The New Convention Organized—Discussion in Springfield, Ill.—Abraham Lincoln—God is Love—Is Merciful—Is Just—Is Holy—Travel in Illinois—Conversation with a Presbyterian Clergyman on the Origin of Hell—In Iowa City, and Other Places in Iowa—Home Again—W. J. Chaplin—Discussion with Benjamin Franklin—Debate in Covington—Discussion with Mr. Russell—Publish the “One Hundred and Fifty Reasons”—Review of “Universalism Against Itself”—Publish Another Book—Olive Branch Discontinued—Traveling Far and Near.

In 1846, I moved to Indianapolis, the capital of Indiana. It being in the center of the state, and the most important town therein, I deemed it a better locality in which to publish theTeacherthan Terre Haute. It continued to be issued twice a month, Dr. J. H. Jordan assisting; and Mrs. Manford writing editorial, helping mail the paper, and keeping the books. I was often absent, but the faithful doctor and the “better half” always sent theTeacherout regularly on its mission. Its circulation rapidly increased after this change of base; and being in the geographical center of the state, I could reach all parts of it with less travel than before. I still continued to make the saddle my home a considerable portion of the time. Visited and preached annually, more or less, in nearly every county in the state, and Indiana covers a large territory, being two hundred and fifty miles north and south, and one hundred and fifty east and west. I also extended my peregrinations into Ohio, Kentucky, Illinois, Iowa and Michigan. Friends of liberal principles were every wheremultiplying, more and more interest was taken in the good cause, and my congregations were generally increasing. I was much encouraged, although my labor at home and abroad was much augmented. I often wished I could divide myself into a dozen parts, that I might be in as many places at once.

There were but few of the liberal faith in Indianapolis. About the time I moved there, B. F. Foster commenced preaching in the city, in the old Court House—a dirty and out of the way place. But few attended his meetings, and after one year’s effort to establish a congregation, he returned to Madison, where he had previously resided. C. Cravens subsequently made a feeble effort in the same direction, and failed. After I left, Mr. Foster returned, and resumed his labors, and has been successful in establishing a good society.

Henry Ward Beecher was pastor of one of the Presbyterian societies part of the time I resided there, and I found him to be a liberal and jovial fellow. Orthodoxy evidently did not trouble him then any more than it does now, and his hearers sometimes doubted his soundness on the “fine points.” He would occasionally preach politics; and his sharp thrusts would send his democratic church members headlong out of the house. I once asked him if he believed the Creator would eternally punish us for the sins of this life, and he evaded giving a direct answer.

There was another Presbyterian preacher in Indianapolis by the name of Gurley—a fossiled Calvinist. He and Beecher subscribed to the same creed, but in faith and spirit they were as far apart as the poles. I attended his meeting once, and he thought he would give me a hard hit. “I will relate,” said he, “how a noted Universalist died. Ethan Allen, a revolutionary soldier, was on his death bed. When well, he was loud in defense of Universalism. But when he came to die it failed him. His daughter asked himjust before he breathed his last, if she should cherish the faith he had taught, or that her mother had taught her. Believe as your mother believes, said the dying man.” I met him the next day, and told him that Ethan Allen was an avowed Deist. “It is the same thing,” said he. “If you think so, you need not be alarmed about your salvation, for all now admit that children and idiots are safe.” This is the same Gurley who has figured in Washington as chaplain of Congress.

Soon after moving to Indianapolis, I had a discussion in New Philadelphia, in the southern portion of Indiana. In going there, I stopped over night in a little village; told the landlord of the inn that I would speak to the people if he would give notice. As my host was a Methodist, the people inferred the preacher was one of his brethren. “The Lord is good unto all, and his tender mercies are over all his works,” was my text, and I dwelt on the evidences of God’s goodness in nature, providence, and the Bible. I emphasized the conclusion, that as God is unchangeable he always will, in this world and the world to come, through all time and through all eternity, be good unto all, and his tender mercies be ever over all his works. As God is good to all, he blesses allnow, and as he always will be good to all, heever willbless all mankind. I did not say that all would be saved, only that God would ever bless mankind. I requested a man, who I was told was a Methodist, to close the meeting. Before praying he remarked, “My brethren, we have heard the gospel to-night in all its fullness. Glory to God for such truths. They are the bread of life. May we all feast on them and live forever.” Another said, “I bless God for what we have heard this evening. I have been so near heaven, I have felt like taking the shoes from my feet. Bless God for the word of life.” I spent the night with a Methodist brother, and he doubtless thought Iwas a Methodist. I practiced no deception—told the truth clearly, boldly. No one questioned me concerning my denominational relations, and I said nothing on that subject. The nature of the soul is in harmony with truth and righteousness, and when the wisdom of heaven is unfolded, it is intuitively responded to by men of all creeds, provided their prejudices are not aroused by offensive names, or by unpopular truths stated in too pointed terms. If I had told the people I was a Universalist, the whole discourse would have been pronounced heresy.

At another time, I was traveling on Sunday; coming to a meeting-house where a congregation was assembling, I dismounted, and took a seat with the congregation. I knew no one, and I suppose no one knew me. The expected preacher did not appear, and some one arose to dismiss the assembly. I told the people I was a minister and would deliver a discourse if they wished me to. All seemed gratified to hear a stranger, and I talked nearly two hours to about five hundred people. I pursued the same course I did on the other occasion—said nothing about other people’s faith, called what I preached the gospel. I counted some twenty Universalists in the congregation; at least, I judged they were such from expressions of their countenances when I came out were pretty clear on Universalist ground. I spent the rest of the day with a Presbyterian deacon, and he evidently did not suspect I was a heretic.

The discussion in New Philadelphia continued two days. My opponent was a Presbyterian minister. We had some skirmishing before the regular battle commenced. I delivered a discourse on Saturday evening, and he replied. He spoke on Sunday morning, and I replied in the afternoon. Monday and Tuesday we met face to face, and discussed six hours each day, when he retreating left me in possession of the field. The discussion caused much excitement,for the liberal faith was unknown to most of the people—they had no idea that any thing could be said in its favor. One man offered to bet his farm that I would not be able to make a second speech. A good society could have been established there, but no minister could be obtained.

The strife between the Northern and Southern people, which ultimated in the late rebellion, disturbed the Universalist denomination in Indiana long before the war commenced. The contention though was not about slavery, but grew out of the antagonism between people from those two sections of country. Southern and Central Indiana was settled chiefly by emigrants from the South, and unfortunately they cherished prejudices against the Yankees. The Indiana State Convention would not join the United States Convention, because it was controlled by Northern people. Jonathan Kidwell, who had long been preaching in the West, resided in Indiana, was from Kentucky. In his younger days he was a Methodist minister; then a New Light; and finally became a Universalist. He possessed much intellectual power, and was well read on many subjects, although not versed in the technicalities of knowledge. He had long resided in Indiana, and was well known. Some forty years ago, he had a discussion in Indianapolis with a Methodist minister. It was published by Mr. K., and widely circulated. He had been editor of theStar in the West, and while I resided in Indiana, he published a monthly magazine, called thePhilometh Encyclopediæ. He was, as remarked, from Kentucky, pro-slavery, and had but little love for Yankees.

Soon after I settled in Lafayette, he commenced a war on Eastern preachers, calling them “silk-stocking gentry,” sent out West to enlighten the heathen. He complimented me by calling me a “Texan ranger,” “a conspirator,” and a “little bishop.” Many of theUniversalists in the state were anxious to be connected with the United States Convention, but Mr. Kidwell and his friends always opposed such union. This difference disturbed the harmony of some of our associational and conventional meetings, and did much mischief in the state generally. I was young, and doubtless indiscreet in some statements I published in theTeacher, but Mr. K. was very coarse and abusive in his attacks. The State Convention met in Terre Haute while I resided there, and one of Mr. Kidwell’s friends reported that he hadfifty chargesagainst me, which he intended to lay before the council. When motion was made to adjourn, I stated what I had heard, and demanded a presentation of the charges threatened. This brought G. C. McCune to his feet, and some one proposed the matter be left to six persons, each party choosing three, and their decision with regard to the charges be final. Both parties consented. I selected my men, but the other party did nothing. The year after, the Convention met in Dublin; one of Mr. K.’s friends proposed that I be disfellowshiped on the ground that I pretended to have received a Letter of Fellowship in the East when I had not, and was therefore an impostor. The resolution was laid on the table. I then came out with a long article in theTeacherabout my troubles in Indiana, and Mr. Kidwell made that article the basis of charges which he presented to the Convention the next year. It met that year in Laconia, in the extreme southern portion of the state, and the council was composed chiefly of delegates from some dead societies in that locality. The result was as I expected, and rather hoped would be—the council voted me guilty of the charges. But that act killed the Convention. The White River, Wabash and Upper Wabash Associations immediately withdrew from it, and in a few months a new Convention was organized in my parlor in Indianapolis, and it soon joinedthe United States Convention. The old Convention met once or twice and then died; and about the same time Mr. Kidwell departed this life, full of years; and soon after, his printing office, which was then run by E. M. Knapp, was destroyed by fire. After the new order of things was inaugurated, peace and harmony reigned in our councils, and the good cause was more prosperous.

Liberal sentiments were making some progress in central Illinois, and I was invited to visit that region and hold a discussion in Springfield with a Methodist preacher. I had never been in that portion of the state, and it was a long journey there, for there was no railroad connecting those two capitals in those days. In going to Springfield, I stopped at Mt. Pulaski, Ill., and delivered several discourses. It is on a high mound, in the midst of vast prairies—a beautiful situation. Here I met, for the first time, D. P. Bunn, who resided in the place and preached there, and in the region all around. He still lives in a neighboring town, Decatur, and is yet faithfully discharging his ministerial duties. He is an excellent man, a faithful minister, and dear friend. He has labored long and hard in the moral field, and God has blessed him and his labors. Mr. Bunn accompanied me to Springfield. Arriving there, I found that the preacher who had agreed to debate with me, was not inclined to keep his promise, and Mr. Lewis, the most noted controversalist in that section, was chosen to take his place. He was a Methodist minister of much ability, and very zealous in his cause. He had recently had a discussion with Mr. Bunn, and was pretty well posted concerning Universalism. We debated four days in the Representatives’ Hall of the capitol, in the presence of vast assemblies. The discussion produced much excitement in Springfield, and all parties attended it. I remember seeing Mr. Lincoln there punctually every day and every night.He often nodded his head to me when I made a strong point. Little did I think, or he think, what was to be his future position and history.

In my first speech, I offered some arguments in favor of the restitution of all things. God is love. The Bible says, “God is love;” and all God’s works say, he is love.

“Could we with ink the ocean fill,And were the skies of parchments made,Were every blade of grass a quill,And every man a scribe by trade;To write the love of God aboveWould drain the ocean dry,Nor could the scroll contain the wholeThough stretch’d from sky to sky.”

“Could we with ink the ocean fill,

And were the skies of parchments made,

Were every blade of grass a quill,

And every man a scribe by trade;

To write the love of God above

Would drain the ocean dry,

Nor could the scroll contain the whole

Though stretch’d from sky to sky.”

As love is the moral nature of God, well might the great Gentile apostle exclaim, “I am persuaded that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other thing, shall separate us from the love of God, which is manifested in Christ Jesus our Lord.” Rom. viii. 38, 39. Can love so broad, so deep, so high, so vast, so enduring, so mighty, consign countless millions of its creations to interminable agony? Can an ocean of love be the source of an ocean of woe? Can the best tree bear the worst fruit? Can the purest fountain emit the most deadly poison? As God is love, while man exists, he must be his friend, his benefactor, his savior. All creeds say God is love. The old Pagans extolled Jupiter, called him the great, the magnificent, the glorious Jupiter, but according to their mythology, he was a beastly monster. So modern theologies say God is love, but they attribute to him passions and deeds the devil might envy. God is love, and all his purposes, and all his works perfectly harmonize with infinite love. Universal blessedness is the sequence of the proposition—God is love.

As God is love, he is just—just in all his purposes, in all his works. Would it be just to force into existence man or angel, knowing that existence would prove an endless curse? Force man into this world, force him through this world, force him into the grave, force him into the spirit-world, force him into an endless hell! That is the programme of heaven, concerning millions of mankind, according to popular creeds. Man is the victim of all this, if Mr. Lewis is right. Is there any justice in this? The whole scheme is black with crime, and reeking with vengeance, as it culminates in the ruin of the universe. Justice does no such work. Justice is universal right, and it labors to bring about right; and justice will not be satisfied till all mankind areright—right in character, in condition, in life. Universal salvation is the sequence of the proposition—God is just.

God is merciful. Mercy is only another manifestation of love, and leads to the same result. The Bible says much about the mercy of God—he is of “great mercy,” “plenteous in mercy,” “rich in mercy.” His mercy is said to be universal—“his tender mercies are over all his works.” His mercy is everlasting—“the mercy of the Lord endureth forever.” The mercy of the Lord then is great, universal and everlasting. It is by the mercy of God we are now blessed; as his mercy is universal, there is no place in the universe where his mercy will not reach us; and as it is eternal, the time will never come when he will not bless us. Universal blessedness then, is the sequence of the proposition—God is merciful.

God is holy. Holiness is a characteristic of love. Holiness delights in holiness, in purity, in happiness. Good men are holy in a finite degree, and they pray, and plan, and labor, to extend holiness. God is holy in an infinite degree, and he purposes universal holiness. Will he then ever place any of us where we cannot be holy, but must lie down in depravity, incorruption, in sin, forever and ever? Mr. Lewis affirms that he will thus dispose of millions of mankind. But that is impossible, as God is a holy being. Here is a man; and because his children are disobedient, he digs a dungeon, chains them in its darkness, feeds them on bread and water; but this is not enough; he enters that dungeon morning, noon and evening, and beats them half to death. He continues this barbarous treatment for days, weeks, months, years, yea, as long as they live. Would you call that the work of holiness? God, it is said, will deal infinitely worse than that inhuman wretch.

“Far in the deep where darkness dwells,A land of horror and despair,Justice has built a dismal hell,And laid her store of vengeance there.”

“Far in the deep where darkness dwells,

A land of horror and despair,

Justice has built a dismal hell,

And laid her store of vengeance there.”

Into this infernal dungeon, we are told, the Creator will thrust countless millions of mankind, swing the door upon them, and there they must remain the helpless victims of every vile passion, not for a day, but to all eternity; all grace, mercy, love, withdrawn from them; deprived of all opportunity, of all power, all means to reform their lives, and doomed by the holy God to be unholy through the eternal ages. Say not this is the work of holiness; say not the holy God will do what would be so unholy, so diabolical. As long as God is holy he will seek the holiness of his creatures, and as he is infinitely and everlastingly holy, in all places and in all times he will seek man’s holiness and happiness. Universal salvation is the sequence of the proposition—God is holy.

I spoke on Sunday after the discussion closed, in the Hall, and the spacious room was crowded to its full capacity. Mr. Bunn afterwards labored in Springfield, then L. C. Marvin and J. Marvin, his brother; then A. Bosserman, and at the present time, H. R. Nye is the pastor of the society. Our friends havea good meeting-house, and liberal principles have a strong hold in the capital of Illinois.

I journeyed to Alton, passing through Carlinville, Brighton, over the prairie where Girard and Virden now stand. There was nothing there then but wild prairie. From Alton I proceeded to Jerseyville, a small burg then, but now a beautiful town, and delivered my message. Thence to Exeter, Naples, and on to Macomb, through Rushville. In all these places I spoke to the people. In Macomb we now have an excellent society and a fine meeting-house. Have often lectured there since my first visit. Had some talk here with a Presbyterian clergyman by the name of Chase, I think.

“You do not believe in hell; but that is as clearly revealed as heaven.”

“You are mistaken. I do believe in the hell the Bible speaks of, and which wicked men experience. But I have no faith in the hell of human creeds. God never revealed it; it was developed from the darkness of Paganism.”

“You cannot prove that.”

“I think I can. Nearly all learned men of all denominations admit, that the Old Testament does not reveal an endless hell. But from Moses to Christ the Pagans believed in it. As heaven had not revealed such a place, the vain imaginations of men were the father and mother of it. Hesiod, a Greek poet, who lived eight hundred years before Christ tells us, that hell is so far from heaven, that it would take a mass of iron eighteen days to fall from the latter to the former place. The gate of hell was supposed to be guarded by a dog having fifty heads, and to make escape impossible, the horrid place was surrounded by a river of fire, called Phlegethon. Virgil, another Heathen poet says:

“‘Here rolls the roaring, flaming tide of hell,And thundering rocks the fiery torrent swell.’

“‘Here rolls the roaring, flaming tide of hell,

And thundering rocks the fiery torrent swell.’

“The punishment of hell is thus described by the same writer:

“‘Here sits in bloody robes the Fury fell,By night and day to watch the gates of hell.Here you begin terrific groans to hear,And sounding lashes rise upon the ear.On every side the damned their fetters grate,And curse, ’mid clanking chains, their wretched fate.’

“‘Here sits in bloody robes the Fury fell,

By night and day to watch the gates of hell.

Here you begin terrific groans to hear,

And sounding lashes rise upon the ear.

On every side the damned their fetters grate,

And curse, ’mid clanking chains, their wretched fate.’

“One sinner is bound to a wheel of fire on which he must revolve eternally. Another is tortured with endless hunger and thirst; he is in a lake of pure water up to his chin, with the most delicious fruit a few inches from him, but he cannot get a drop of water nor a particle of food into his mouth. Danaus’ forty-nine daughters, for murdering their husbands, were doomed to fill a leaky tub with water, drawn from a well with a sieve. Another victim of the gods was chained to a rock, and vultures fed on his heart and entrails, which grew as fast as devoured. Virgil, also thus enlightens us concerning some of the inhabitants of hell:

“‘At hell’s dread mouth a thousand monsters wait;—Griefweeps, andVengeancebellows in the gate;BaseWant, lowFear, andFamine’slawless rage,And paleDisease, and slow, repiningAge;Fierce, formidableFiendsthe portals keep,WithPain,Toil,Death, and Death’s half-brother,Sleep.There Joys, embittered byRemorse, appear,Daughter ofGuilt; here storms destructiveWar.MadDiscordthere her snaky tresses tore;Here stretched on iron beds theFuriesroar;And close byLerna’shissing monster standsBriareusdreadful with a hundred hands;There sternGeryonraged; and all aroundFierceHarpiesscreamed, and direfulGorgonsfrowned.’

“‘At hell’s dread mouth a thousand monsters wait;—

Griefweeps, andVengeancebellows in the gate;

BaseWant, lowFear, andFamine’slawless rage,

And paleDisease, and slow, repiningAge;

Fierce, formidableFiendsthe portals keep,

WithPain,Toil,Death, and Death’s half-brother,Sleep.

There Joys, embittered byRemorse, appear,

Daughter ofGuilt; here storms destructiveWar.

MadDiscordthere her snaky tresses tore;

Here stretched on iron beds theFuriesroar;

And close byLerna’shissing monster stands

Briareusdreadful with a hundred hands;

There sternGeryonraged; and all around

FierceHarpiesscreamed, and direfulGorgonsfrowned.’

“This, sir, was the Pagan hell—believed by Pagans, preached by Pagan priests, hundreds of years before Jesus Christ brought a future life to light.Did he teach an endless hell? If so, he taught Paganism, not the wisdom of God. Have I not proved that the dogma of endless punishment originated in Heathen darkness? You admit that it is not taught in the Old Testament; that the Jews did not believe in it in the days of Moses or the prophets. But the Pagans did believe in it in those days, therefore it was not revealed from heaven, but was the product of their own deformed minds.”

“Christians do not believe in the Pagan hell, but in the Christian hell; the Pagans corrupted the truth.”

“The hell of modern creeds is as horrible as the hell of Paganism. I will give you some description of hell by Christian authors, and you will admit that I am correct. Rev. Isaac Ambrose, an English divine, and a man of great talent, contends that the Heathen did not represent hell bad enough. Alluding to the Pagan poets just quoted, he says:

“‘Let poets feign of Tantalus’s tortures, Prometheus’s vultures, Ixion’s wheels, and Charon’s rowing; these are far short to express the pains of those that rage in hell. There plagues have no ease, cries have no help, time has no end, place no redemption. It is the dark prison where the Tares [the damned] are chained, and the wicked bound in fetters of fire and darkness. Are there not wonderful engines, sharp and sure instruments of revenge? fiery brimstone, pitchy sulpher, red-hot chains, flaming whips, scorching darkness? Will you any more? The worm is immortal, cold intolerable, stench unendurable, fire unquenchable, darkness palpable.... What music affords the place but roaring and crying and howling? Cursing is their hymns, wailing their tunes, blasphemies their ditties, tears their notes, lamentations their songs, screeching their strains; these are their morning and evening songs. What mean these chains and whips, and links and scourges? ironchains, whips of steel, fiery links, knotty scourges. Furies shake their bolts to frighten souls; the irons strike through their ears, and the hooked engines tear out their bowels, as if the torment of the damned were the delight of devils.’

“‘Oh, what a bed is this for delicate and dainty persons; no feathers, but fire; no friends, but furies; no ease, but fetters; no light, but smoke; no clock nor chimes to pass away the night, but timeless eternity. A fire, intolerable; a fire, burning, never dying! Oh, immortal pains!... What torment, what calamity can be compared to the shadow of this? The wicked shall be crowded together like brick in a fiery furnace. There is no servant to fan cold air on their tormented parts—not so much as the chink where the least puff of wind might enter to cool them.’

“Another Orthodox poet waxes eloquent in describing the infernal regions:

“‘Pale phantoms, hideous specters, shapes which scareThe damned themselves, and terrify despair,Gorgons and harpies, and chimeras dire,And swarms of hissing serpents, hissing fire.’

“‘Pale phantoms, hideous specters, shapes which scare

The damned themselves, and terrify despair,

Gorgons and harpies, and chimeras dire,

And swarms of hissing serpents, hissing fire.’

“Dr. Trapp thus writes of the rivers of hell and their fiery tide:

“‘Fires spout in cataracts, or in furies flow—In bubbling eddies roll the fiery tide,And sulphurous surges on each other ride.’

“‘Fires spout in cataracts, or in furies flow—

In bubbling eddies roll the fiery tide,

And sulphurous surges on each other ride.’

“The Orthodox Pollock gives this idea of hell:

“‘Wide was the place,And deep as wide, and ruinous as deep.Beneath, I saw a lake of burning fire,With tempest tost perpetually, and still,The waves of fiery darkness ’gainst the rocksOf dark damnation broke, and music madeOf melancholy sort, and over head,And all around, wind wared with wind, storm howledTo storm, and lightning, forked lightning, crossed,Of sullen wrath.’

“‘Wide was the place,

And deep as wide, and ruinous as deep.

Beneath, I saw a lake of burning fire,

With tempest tost perpetually, and still,

The waves of fiery darkness ’gainst the rocks

Of dark damnation broke, and music made

Of melancholy sort, and over head,

And all around, wind wared with wind, storm howled

To storm, and lightning, forked lightning, crossed,

Of sullen wrath.’

“The Pagan account of hell is tame compared to the Orthodox representation of it. A Methodist elder, a short time since, in Lafayette, Ind., told his hearers, that hell was so hot, that if a soul was taken out of it and put into a red hot smelting furnace, he would freeze to death in five minutes.”

“I will not talk with you; for you are making sport of a very serious subject.”

“I am merely relating the common view of hell, as it is preached all over the land.”

“I do not believe in such a hell; neither do I preach it. The wicked will be banished from the presence of God, there to remain forever.”

“Make hell as mild as you please; put out all its fires, throw away all its brimstone, chains and pitchforks, and say, it is only aconditionof sin, darkness, mental anguish, and moral death, and it then is awful beyond imagination. Fire, red hot wheels, boiling lead, as means of torture, give only a faint conception of the horrors of such a state, if it is to continue forever. As John Wesley said, ‘What is gained if there is no material fire in hell, whenall admit, that if there is no material fire there, there issomething worse.’”

From Macomb I proceeded to Burlington, Iowa, and thence to Iowa City. Here I lectured several times. I. M. Westfall was residing and preaching there. It was then a small town, but now it is a large and flourishing place. Our society owns a meeting-house, and other valuable property.

Lectured in West Liberty, Tipton, Rochester, Muscatine, Washington, Davenport, and some other places in Iowa, and then returned to Indianapolis by the most direct route. This was a long and laborious journey; traveled about one thousand miles, anddelivered many discourses, one third of which were in places where the people were entirely ignorant of our faith, and in the rest they knew but very little concerning it.

A short time before the new Convention was organized, I was in North Manchester, in the northern part of Indiana, where a youth introduced himself to me, as William J. Chaplin, and said he had walked fifteen miles to attend my meeting. He also stated that he was studying theology, and intended to be a minister. I encouraged him in his purpose, and shortly afterwards he delivered his first sermon. He has been in the ministry ever since, and has labored extensively, faithfully, and effectually, in Indiana, Ohio, Michigan, and Illinois. At the present time he resides at Dowagiac, Mich., and devotes most of his time to the profession of his choice.

About this time I had an oral discussion with Benjamin Franklin, on three subjects—The General Judgment—Universal Salvation—Endless Misery. We discussed each proposition six hours. The debate was published by both parties, and makes a book of three hundred and fifty-nine pages. It has had a wide circulation—three edition having been issued. Mr. Franklin is, for he is still living, an influential minister, editor and author, in his denomination. He has resided in Cincinnati many years, and publishes a large weekly religious paper in that city.

I also had a debate in Covington, Ind., with Mr. French, a Baptist clergyman, which continued four days. He was pastor of the Baptist church in that place, and his people had immense faith in his ability to demolish the doctrines of the Restitution. But he labored under a great disadvantage, as he could not extemporize; and how he wrote his speeches was a mystery to me; he must have worked hard during the intermissions. But his labor and wit did not save him. His friends were disappointed with his effort,and he soon after left Covington. The discussion was held in the Baptist meeting-house, and very large congregations listened to the arguments,proandcon.

Soon after this, I spent four days in discussion in Park county, Ind., with Mr. Russell, a Campbellite minister. The neighborhood was chiefly of the preacher’s faith; I put up with one of his brethren while the debate was progressing. They all treated me kindly, and we parted in friendship. Mr. R. now resides in Iowa, and is a noted man in his denomination.

In the midst of this arduous labor, I wrote and published the “One Hundred and Fifty Reasons for Believing in the Salvation of Mankind,” about twenty thousand copies of which has been distributed, and I think it has done a good work.

Alexander Hall, of Ohio, published a book, denominated “Universalism Against Itself,” which was extensively circulated in the West. He has since turned infidel, and says he wrote the book to please the Orthodox; he was probably an infidel when he wrote it. But his hypocrisy not then being known, and as the book might deceive some of its readers, I employed Dr. Jordan to answer it in theTeacher. His review occupied a portion of theTeacherfor one year, and when it was finished, it was published in book form, making a volume of nearly four hundred pages. An edition of two thousand copies has been sold. It is a strong and vigorous work, and completely answers most of the objections urged in all quarters against the Universalist construction of the Bible.

I also published a little book of two hundred pages, called “Truthvs.Error,” composed of selections from some of our best writers. One thousand copies of it were distributed.

In 1848, I commenced issuing the paper weekly, calling it theWestern Olive Branch. Soon after,I unwisely moved it to Cincinnati, hoping it would have a more general circulation if it was published in the “Queen City” of the West. But unfortunately, I had a partner, H. Torry, who proved to be a dead weight on my hands, and to throw him off I had to dispose of the paper, which I did, to J. A. Gurley, and he connected it with theStar in the West. After this brief partnership of a few months, resulting thus disastrously, I returned to Indianapolis, and devoted all my time and attention to preaching. When this transfer was made, the circulation of theOlive Branchwas thirty-three hundred, and it had been published nearly nine years. I was sorry to give it up, but deemed it best to do so under the circumstances.

The succeeding eighteen months, I was from home most of the time, traveling in Indiana, Illinois, Kentucky, Michigan and Ohio, preaching wherever I could have a hearing. On horseback I went from Cincinnati to Lake Erie, and from Lake Erie to Cincinnati; lectured in Springfield, Dayton, Columbus, Upper Sandusky, and in many other places. I also journeyed west as far as St. Louis, and northwest to Iowa City.

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