TheChairman. For how much did you sell these books a copy?
Mr.Surrey. We gave them free to our presubscriber list.
TheChairman. I didn't ask you that.
Mr.Surrey. They were $5 per copy.
TheChairman. And how many did you say you sold?
Mr.Surrey. About 900 to a 1,000.
TheChairman. What happened to the money?
Mr.Surrey. It was put into the American Eagle Publishing Co. account.
TheChairman. Do you have a regular bookkeeping system?
Mr.Surrey. Yes, sir.
TheChairman. And those figures would be available, showing how many you had sold, would they?
Mr.Surrey. Yes, sir.
TheChairman. In your books?
Mr.Surrey. Yes, sir.
RepresentativeBoggs. Is the American Eagle Publishing Co. an incorporated company?
Mr.Surrey. No.
RepresentativeBoggs. What is it?
Mr.Surrey. Partnership, sir.
RepresentativeBoggs. Who are the partners?
Mr.Surrey. Myself and General Walker.
RepresentativeBoggs. And this presubscription list, how many people on that?
Mr.Surrey. I would say 700, 800.
RepresentativeBoggs. You publish a newspaper?
Mr.Surrey. No; we don't.
RepresentativeBoggs. What do you publish besides this book?
Mr.Surrey. Pamphlets—pamphlets.
Mr.Jenner. You receive part of your income from the American Eagle Publishing Co.?
Mr.Surrey. No; I do not.
Mr.Jenner. You serve as president, but you receive no compensation for that?
Mr.Surrey. That is true.
Mr.Jenner. Would you tell us, please, the address of the American Eagle Publishing Co.?
Mr.Surrey. P.O. Box 750, Dallas 21.
Mr.Jenner. It has no physical office itself—just the post office address?
Mr.Surrey. That is correct. That mail comes to my desk at Johnson Printing Co. That is the same post office box as Johnson Printing Co.
Mr.Jenner. I see. And where do you keep—where does American Publishing Co. warehouse or keep or store its pamphlets and books?
Mr.Surrey. 4011 Turtle Creek Boulevard, Mr. Walker's residence. I have a room.
Mr.Jenner. That is General Walker's residence?
Mr.Surrey. Yes.
TheChairman. That is General Walker's residence?
Mr.Surrey. Yes; it is.
TheChairman. Who owns the Johnson Printing Co.?
Mr.Surrey. It is—the stock is split, four or five different people.
TheChairman. A corporation?
Mr.Surrey. Yes; it is.
TheChairman. Who are they?
Mr.Surrey. Mr. Bryan Snyder is chairman of the board. Mr. Emil Borak is president, and Mr. Lewis C. Owens is treasurer. I believe some stock is held by Oliver Snyder, and I have some stock. And Mr. Fallon Snyder.
TheChairman. It is a commercial company?
Mr.Surrey. Yes; it is.
TheChairman. Is General Walker connected with it?
Mr.Surrey. No; he is not.
TheChairman. Or with the other people, as far as you know?
Mr.Surrey. No, sir.
Mr.Jenner. Is Mr. Borak the general manager of the plant itself?
Mr.Surrey. No; he is president of the company.
Mr.Jenner. I see. Who is the general manager of the plant?
Mr.Surrey. Mr. Owens.
Mr.Jenner. Mr. Owens.
Did you acquaint Mr. Owens or Mr. Borak, either of them, with the fact that you had Commission Exhibit No. 996 printed at the Lettercraft Printing Co.?
Mr.Surrey. I decline to answer on the ground it may tend to incriminate me.
Mr.Jenner. Did you make either or both of them aware of the fact that some of the copy or all of the copy with respect to Commission Exhibit No. 996 was prepared by way of printing at Johnson Printing Co.?
Mr.Surrey. I decline to answer on the ground it may tend to incriminate me.
Mr.Jenner. How many printers do you have at Johnson Printing Co.?
Mr.Surrey. How many employees?
Mr.Jenner. No—that operate linotypes or operate these machines that produce these slugs—what is the name of that kind of machine?
Mr.Surrey. Well, it would be a monotype or a linotype or a Ludlow.
Mr.Jenner. Are these lines on Exhibit No. 996 Ludlow productions?
Mr.Surrey. I decline to answer on the ground it may tend to incriminate me.
Mr.Jenner. Who are the Ludlow machine operators at Johnson Printing Co.?
Mr.Surrey. Oh, I would say there are probably 10 or 15 that operate the Ludlow machine.
Mr.Jenner. Does your recollection serve you to name those who operated the Ludlow machines any time during the first 22 days of November 1963? If so, name them.
Mr.Surrey. I decline to answer on the ground it may tend to incriminate me.
Mr.Jenner. Are you able to name any of the linotype operators who were employed during the first 22 days of November 1963?
Mr.Surrey. Who were employed at Johnson Printing Co.?
Mr.Jenner. Yes, sir.
Mr.Surrey. Well, I gather this has nothing to do with this. So may I answer?
Mr.Jenner. I don't want to lead you to believe it doesn't, sir.
Mr.Surrey. I decline to answer on the ground it may incriminate me.
Mr.Jenner. From whom was the paper purchased on which appears the imprinting on the exhibit identified here as Commission Exhibit No. 996.
Mr.Surrey. I decline to answer on the same grounds.
Mr.Jenner. Did you see another reproduction of Commission Exhibit No. 996 at any time from the 1st of November 1963 to and including the 22d of November 1963?
Mr.Surrey. I decline to answer on the grounds it may incriminate me.
Mr.Jenner. Mr. Chief Justice, I will now depart from this particular phase, if that is permissible.
TheChairman. Very well.
Mr.Jenner. I am now going to turn, Mr. Surrey, to the attempt on the life of General Walker.
First I would like to have you examine a series of photographs which purport to be photographs of the area of the Walker house.
Mr. Chief Justice, may I approach the witness for this purpose?
TheChairman. Yes.
Mr.Jenner. I show the witness Commission Exhibit No. 2, Item No. 7, and subdivision item No. P-2. Do you see that, sir?
Mr.Surrey. Yes; I do.
Mr.Jenner. Examining the subitem, P-2, is the area depicted in that photograph familiar to you?
Mr.Surrey. Yes; it is. It is the alley in behind Mr. Walker's residence, looking west.
Mr.Jenner. Looking west?
Mr.Surrey. Yes.
Mr.Jenner. Would you be able to help us as to an estimate, perhaps from the nature of the foliage, and your familiarity with the Walker premises, as to when that photograph might have been taken, as to season of the year?
Mr.Surrey. I would say late fall.
Mr.Jenner. Could it have been the early spring, mid-March, for example? 1st of March, along in there?
Mr.Surrey. It could have been; yes.
Mr.Jenner. Either in the fall, when there is a deleafing or lack of foliage on trees, or the early spring?
Mr.Surrey. Yes, sir.
Mr.Jenner. I show you what purports to be the same thing, also marked—it is a larger photograph—Commission Exhibit No. 2, Item No. 7. Directing your attention to the subdivision P-2 you have just testified about, are theyphotographs——
Mr.Surrey. Basically the same thing. It looks like this one was taken a little closer to the ground.
Mr.Jenner. When you say this one, you mean the larger of the two?
Mr.Surrey. Yes.
Mr.Jenner. On Commission Exhibit No. 3, Item 14, subitem P-1, directing your attention to that, you recognize that?
Mr.Surrey. That is a picture of the back of the residence of 4011 Turtle Creek.
Mr.Jenner. General Edwin Walker's home?
Mr.Surrey. Yes.
Mr.Jenner. I perhaps should have asked you this: You are familiar with the area surrounding General Walker's home?
Mr.Surrey. Yes, I am.
Mr.Jenner. You have been there a good many times, have you?
Mr.Surrey. Yes, I have.
Mr.Jenner. On all sides of the home?
Mr.Surrey. Yes.
Mr.Jenner. And are you familiar with the inside of the home?
Mr.Surrey. Yes; I am.
Mr.Jenner. And have you worked there from time to time over the years?
Mr.Surrey. Yes.
Mr.Jenner. How long have you been associated with General Walker?
Mr.Surrey. Since the beginning of his campaign, when that was—I think the spring—about 3 years now.
TheChairman. What campaign is that?
Mr.Surrey. When he ran for Governor of Texas.
Mr.Jenner. That initiated your association with him?
Mr.Surrey. Yes, sir.
Mr.Jenner. And what are your duties in your association with General Walker?
Mr.Surrey. I am just a volunteer helper, whatever he needed, volunteer help in doing, I would help.
Mr.Jenner. Are you compensated?
Mr.Surrey. No; I am not.
Mr.Jenner. You have never received any compensation?
Mr.Surrey. No; I haven't.
Mr.Jenner. You have never received any compensation from the publishing company we have identified that published that book?
Mr.Surrey. No, sir.
TheChairman. Do you handle any funds for General Walker?
Mr.Surrey. Of General Walker's fund?
TheChairman. Yes.
Mr.Surrey. No, sir.
TheChairman. Or anyfunds——
Mr.Surrey. Exceptwhat——
TheChairman. Or any funds that come to General Walker?
Mr.Surrey. No; only that comes to American Eagle Co., which is in fact, I guess, technically his funds.
TheChairman. Well, what funds do come to American Eagle Co.?
Mr.Surrey. Funds for purchasing of materials, and some donations. That is it.
TheChairman. Outside of donations, how do you get your funds for publishing?
Mr.Surrey. From the sale of materials.
TheChairman. And the rest of it is all donations?
Mr.Surrey. Donations are extremely small, as a matter of fact, yes. We operate on the sale of materials.
TheChairman. How much in the aggregate of donations have you had?
Mr.Surrey. To American Eagle Publishing Co.?
TheChairman. Yes.
Mr.Surrey. I would say a hundred dollars.
TheChairman. A hundred dollars?
Mr.Surrey. Over 2 years or 2½ years.
TheChairman. Where did you get the money to publish your book?
Mr.Surrey. At the beginning of American Eagle Publishing Co., we started with a backlog of books which had been used in the campaign. This was Mr. Walker's contribution to the American Eagle Publishing Co.
TheChairman. Did General Walker sell his campaign books?
Mr.Surrey. I don't know if he did or not.
TheChairman. Well, you don't pay publishing funds with books, do you?
Mr.Surrey. From the sale of the books which were turned over to American Eagle Co. at its inception, from the sale of those books, we have accumulated funds to go on with others.
TheChairman. At its inception, where did you get the money to publish?
Mr.Surrey. I don't understand your question, sir.
TheChairman.Well——
Mr.Surrey. At its inception we didn't have any money.
TheChairman. When you publish books, you have to have some capital of some kind.
Mr.Surrey. The capital was raised from the sale of a book called "Walker Speaks Unmuzzled" which sells for 35 cents. We started with that.
TheChairman. You published that first?
Mr.Surrey. No, sir.
TheChairman. Who published that?
Mr.Surrey. I believe General Walker did.
TheChairman. And how much money came from the sale of those books?
Mr.Surrey. I do not know offhand, sir.
TheChairman. Approximately.
Mr.Surrey. We are still selling them.
TheChairman. Beg pardon?
Mr.Surrey. We are still selling them.
TheChairman. But you handle the funds, don't you, for the company?
Mr.Surrey. Yes; but I don't know specific items.
TheChairman. Well, I am not asking you for specific items. But I would like to know approximately how much money.
Let me put it this way: How much money have you handled for that company in the last—since it has been established?
Mr.Surrey. Oh, as a rough estimate, $10,000 to $15,000.
TheChairman. And only a hundred dollars of that was contributions from outsiders?
Mr.Surrey. I would say that would be it.
TheChairman. And was there any of that $10,000 or $15,000 that came from any individual other than from people who purchased the hooks?
Mr.Surrey. Yes; at one time the General put some more money into the company.
TheChairman. How much money did he put into it?
Mr.Surrey. I believe a thousand dollars.
TheChairman. That is all?
Mr.Surrey. Yes.
TheChairman. Anybody else put any money into it?
Mr.Surrey. No, sir.
TheChairman. Did you?
Mr.Surrey. No, sir.
TheChairman. Very well.
Mr.Jenner. Mr. Chief Justice, may I revert to the other subject matter? I have an additional question I would like to ask. And I warn the witness in advance I am returning to the pamphlet.
TheChairman. Yes.
Mr.Jenner. Your questions have stimulated me to ask another question.
TheChairman. Yes.
Mr.Jenner. Were any of the funds that reached Eagle Publishing Co. by way of contributions or proceeds of sale of materials employed or used to pay for the leaflet, Commission Exhibit No. 996?
Mr.Surrey. Now, I understand that if I answer that question, it opens up the whole thing again. So I decline to answer on the grounds it may incriminate me.
TheChairman. Gentlemen, I have asked our Chief Counsel, Mr. Rankin, to have a search of our files made and our telephone calls to see if we have received anything from Congressman Alger concerning this book. And Mr. Rankin, will you report to us what your finding is, please?
Mr.Rankin. I had a search made of our files, and any incoming calls from the Congressman to see if we had received any such material, and such a search showed that we had not received any such material. I then called Congressman Alger's office to ask there if there had been any communication from them, and was informed that they had not sent anything to us, but that one of the booklets had been given away by Congressman Alger, and they had one left, and I have sent for that one to have for our records.
RepresentativeBoggs. I would like to see it when it gets here. You expect it pretty soon?
Mr.Rankin. I sent him on the run.
RepresentativeBoggs. Good.
Mr.Jenner. Mr. Surrey, I will return to the General Walker incident now.
I would like you particularly to examine the next photograph, which appears in Commission Exhibit No. 4, Item 6, as subletter P-5.
This depicts, Mr. Chairman, and gentlemen, a railroad track—in the far distance a tall building. Is that area at all familiar to you?
That is undoubtedly the MKT line, or some spur line.
You are familiar with the MKT line, are you not?
Mr.Surrey. This I do not recognize the area.
Mr.Jenner. I will ask you this. Is there a railroad near General Walker's home?
Mr.Surrey. Facing out of the house, facing Turtle Creek, across the creek, and then another half block or so, there is a railroad.
Mr.Jenner. Within a half a block?
Mr.Surrey. Well, it would be a full city block to the railroad. Perhaps even more. I have never been in that area, as a matter of fact.
Mr.Jenner. Having that in mind, I show you a photograph, aerial view photograph, which we have marked Commission Exhibit No. 998.
Mr. Chief Justice, that is a copy of the exhibit.
That purports to be an aerial photograph taken of the vicinity of General Walker's residence. And you will notice there is an encircled building and the designation "A."
First, do you recognize that general area?
Mr.Surrey. Yes; I do.
(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit 998 for identification.)
Mr.Jenner. And does the encirclment of the home there appear to be General Walker's home?
Mr.Surrey. Yes, sir; it does. I don't see a house that should be in the corner.
Mr.Jenner. You say corner—youmean——
Mr.Surrey. Right there.
Mr.Jenner. To the left?
Mr.Surrey. Yes; there is a house there between Walker's residence and the next house, and the street here, which is Avondale, I believe.
Mr.Jenner. And you are talking about the street here—you are pointing to a street that runs obliquely from left to right towards the upper corner of the picture?
Mr.Surrey. Yes.
Mr.Jenner. To the left of the house encircled as General Walker's house?
Mr.Surrey. Yes. Oh, I see, I am sorry. It is much further back from the street. That is the house.
Mr.Jenner. Now, the house you say that is next is the one immediately to the left of the one encircled?
Mr.Surrey. Yes; I was looking in this area for the houses. That is correct. That is General Walker's residence, as depicted in the picture.
Mr.Jenner. And the house to the left is the house you thought at first was not shown, but in fact it is shown?
Mr.Surrey. It is.
Mr.Jenner. And who is the owner of that home?
Mr.Surrey. I do not know. A doctor.
Mr.Jenner. A lady doctor?
Mr.Surrey. Yes; it is a woman, runs the household.
Mr.Jenner. Dr. Ruth Jackson?
Mr.Surrey. It sounds familiar, but I do not know.
Mr.Jenner. Does she have a dog that is sometimes obstreperous, does a lot of barking?
Mr.Surrey. Yes; she does.
Mr.Jenner. You are quite familiar with that fact, are you?
Mr.Surrey. Yes, sir; I am.
Mr.Jenner. How and why did you become familiar with that fact?
Mr.Surrey. Anyone approaching the house, generally her house or General Walker's house, would be barked at, in the middle of the night noises.
Mr.Jenner. And you have approached General Walker's house, I assume, at night, have you?
Mr.Surrey. Yes.
Mr.Jenner. If the dog is out in Dr. Jackson's yard, the dog is alerted and barks?
Mr.Surrey. Not so much any more. Evidently he knows who I am now.
Mr.Jenner. I see. But before the dog became familiar with you, he did bark?
Mr.Surrey. Yes, sir.
Mr.Jenner. What kind of a dog is it, by the way?
Mr.Surrey. A small Collie, I guess—shaggy, brownish dog.
Mr.Jenner. Do you recall whether or not at or about the time of the attempt on General Walker's life that dog became or was ill.
Mr.Surrey. Yes; it was. This was reported to me. I do not know of firsthand knowledge.
Mr.Jenner. I would prefer not to have your hearsay. You have no knowledge firsthand, however?
Mr.Surrey. No; I do not.
Mr.Jenner. Unless, Mr. Chairman, you desire to pursue thehearsay——
TheChairman. No, no.
Mr.Jenner. Continuing with Exhibit No. 998, and looking at the footnotes, would you tell us whether that footnoting is accurate—A through G?
Mr.Surrey. I am not familiar with Gilbert Street.
Mr.Jenner. Which is designated as G?
Mr.Surrey. It very well could be Gilbert Street. I just don't know the names of those streets.
Yes; to the best of my knowledge that is accurate.
Mr.Jenner. There is a tall building to the left, rather nice-looking. Are you familiar with that building?
Mr.Surrey. No; there are several new ones going right up in that area. I think that is the Spa, or something.
Mr.Jenner. I am referring, Mr. Chief Justice, to the tall building with a lattice design immediately to the right of the letter "A".
What did you think that was?
Mr.Surrey. A new development in there called 21 Turtle Creek, the Spa, or something. I only know it from newspaper ads.
Mr.Jenner. I see. Was that building in that condition or being erected in the spring of 1963?
Mr.Surrey. If that is the building I think of, it has just been finished a month or so now.
Mr.Jenner. How long has it been under construction?
Mr.Surrey. Possibly a year, a year and a half.
Mr.Jenner. Does that photograph fairly depict and represent the area it shows as that area existed in the spring of 1963?
Mr.Surrey. No; you are missing a Jesuit high school which was here.
Mr.Jenner. When you say was here, I have to identify the spot to which you are pointing. And the spot to which you are pointing is the open field area that is shown immediately to the right of the building we have identified, near which the letter "A" appears?
Mr.Surrey. Yes.
Mr.Jenner. Tell us about that.
Mr.Surrey. That was the old Jesuit high school, which has been torn down just recently. I believe just recently finished tearing it down.
Mr.Jenner. All right. I will identify these other photographs rather quickly. In each instance, will you look at the photograph and tell us whether the sub-lettering is correct.
I have now handed the witness Commission Exhibit No. 999.
(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 999 for identification.)
Mr.Surrey. I believe that to be generally correct. This area of Walker's residence here isdifficult——
Mr.Jenner. It is some distance away, and the area of Walker's residence to which the witness referred is a circle to which the letter "A" is affixed?
Mr.Surrey. Yes.
Mr.Jenner. Otherwise, this is an accurate representation of that area and as it existed in the spring of 1963?
Mr.Surrey. Again, the high school is—I don't believe that that Jesuit high school was to the ground as it shows here, in the spring of 1963.
Mr.Jenner. I now call your attention to the building that appears immediately to the right of the circle.
Mr.Surrey. That is, I believe, the same building that shows in the previous exhibit.
Mr.Jenner. Thank you. That is just exactly what I was going to ask you. All right. Now, would you look at Commission Exhibit No. 1000.
(The documents referred to were marked Commission Exhibits Nos. 1000 and 1002 for identification.)
Mr.Jenner. Are those footnotings correct?
Mr.Surrey. Yes, sir; I believe they are.
Mr.Jenner. Would you look at 1002.
Mr.Surrey. Yes, sir; I believe they are substantially correct.
Mr.Jenner. All right. For the purposes of the record, Mr. Reporter, Commission Exhibit No. 1000 also has a sticker on it marked Commission Exhibit No. 1001. Would you please note in the record we will not be using Commission Exhibit 1001. It got on there by mistake. Now, you just covered Exhibit No. 1002. Now, Exhibits Nos. 1003, 1004.
(The documents referred to were marked Commission Exhibits No. 1003 and 1004, respectively, for identification.)
Mr.Surrey. Yes; that street previously mentioned was Avondale. That is the street immediately to the west.
Mr.Jenner. And it appears on Commission Exhibit No. 1003?
Mr.Surrey. That is correct.
Mr.Jenner. Have you yet examined Commission Exhibit No. 1004?
Mr.Surrey. No; I have not.
Mr.Jenner. The witness is now examining Commission Exhibit No. 1004.
TheChairman. Very well.
Mr.Surrey. I believe that is correct, sir.
Mr.Jenner. All right. I will ask you a general question to be sure we have covered all of these.
Calling your attention to Commission Exhibits Nos. 998, 999, 1000, 1002, 1003, and 1004, which are aerial photographs—are they aerial photographs of the vicinity of General Walker's house?
Mr.Surrey. Yes; they are.
Mr.Jenner. And do they, except for the high school matter which you have pointed out to us—do they represent fairly the area as it was in the spring of 1963?
Mr.Surrey. Yes, I would say that is generally correct.
Mr.Jenner. All right, sir. Now, the Commission is interested, Mr. Surrey, in whether there are some open areas or fields near General Walker's house in which an object such as a firearm or rifle could be buried.
Mr.Surrey. Directly across from in front of the house—of course, Turtle Creek Boulevard, and across from Turtle Creek Boulevard is Turtle Creek itself, with a lawn area coming up to the street of 20 to 30 yards in some places.
Mr.Jenner. Using the blank sheet of paper I hand you, would you just give us a diagram—a rough diagram of the area of General Walker's house, so that I can locate the field about which you now speak?
Mr.Surrey. It is not actually a field.
Mr.Jenner. And we will mark that as Commission Exhibit No. 1005.
(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 1005 for identification.)
Mr.Surrey. This is Turtle Creek. [Witness draws.]
Mr.Jenner. Now, is Turtle Creek a street?
Mr.Surrey. Yes; it is a street, a boulevard.
Mr.Jenner. All right.
Mr.Surrey. Mr. Walker's residence is here. [Witness draws.]
Mr.Jenner. Is the top of this sheet north or south, west or east? When I say that I refer to Commission Exhibit No. 1005.
Mr.Surrey. This is north.
Mr.Jenner. All right. Put an arrow and the letter "N" at that point. Now, would you put south on the other side, and then east and west where they belong?
Mr.Surrey. These are not exact. They are several points off. But generally.
Mr.Jenner. You are just making a rough sketch, sir, for the purpose of helping with your testimony. You have now drawn in General Walker's house. Would you put in the word "Walker"?
Now, having done that, you have now described an area—told us of an area where a firearm—a field where a firearm might be buried that is in the vicinity of General Walker's home. Would you indicate where that would be?
Mr.Surrey. Here is Turtle Creek. [Witness draws.]
Mr.Jenner. You are now drawing a wavy line. Would you write in there "Turtle Creek." And that is a stream, is it?
Mr.Surrey. Yes.
Mr.Jenner. Does it always have water in it?
Mr.Surrey. To my knowledge; yes, sir.
Mr.Jenner. All right.
Mr.Surrey. Now, this area across Turtle Creek Boulevard.
Mr.Jenner. That is to the south of General Walker's house.
Mr.Surrey. And going down to the creek is a grassy, leafed, brushed, tree area.
Mr.Jenner. It is not an open field?
Mr.Surrey. No.
Mr.Jenner. But it is an area in which a firearm could be buried?
Mr.Surrey. It is down near the creek—there are rocks.
(At this point, Representative Boggs withdrew from the hearing room.)
Mr.Surrey. In addition to that—here is Avondale, here is the doctor's residence. [Witness draws.]
Mr.Jenner. This is Dr. Jackson's residence you have now drawn?
Mr.Surrey. Yes.
Mr.Jenner. Would youplease——
Mr.Surrey. And this entire block hereis——
Mr.Jenner. You are pointing to the west?
Mr.Surrey. Yes.
Mr.Jenner. Along Turtle Creek Drive?
Mr.Surrey. Yes.
Mr.Jenner. Would you put the word "drive" there.
Mr.Surrey. It is boulevard.
Mr.Jenner. All right. Would you repeat your testimony in that connection?
Mr.Surrey. Another block ofresidences——
Mr.Jenner. To the west?
Mr.Surrey. To the west. And then you come to that field where the new building is going up and the Jesuit high school was.
Mr.Jenner. And that is the new building you identified in one of the earlier exhibits, and the high school has now been torn down?
Mr.Surrey. Yes.
Mr.Jenner. All right. And there was—in the spring of 1963, was there a field there?
Mr.Surrey. Yes; there still is.
Mr.Jenner. Where a firearm could have been buried?
Mr.Surrey. Yes, sir.
Mr.Jenner. We understand there is a church, a church house, near the Walker home. Am I correct?
Mr.Surrey. That is correct.
Mr.Jenner. Would you locate it, please?
Mr.Surrey. Yes; directly to the east. [Witness draws.] Their driveway comes up between the Walker house, into their parking lot [witness draws], and here is that back alley you showed me a picture of earlier. [Witness draws.]
Mr.Jenner. Excuse me. For the purpose of the record, the witness has now drawn in what looks like a parking lot area, is that correct?
Mr.Surrey. Yes.
Mr.Jenner. Is that the church parking lot?
Mr.Surrey. Yes; it is.
Mr.Jenner. And where is the church house itself located?
Mr.Surrey. This entire area. I don't know about the shape of it. But it is in this area.
Mr.Jenner. Write the word "church" in there. [Witness does so.] What church is that?
Mr.Surrey. It is a Mormon church.
Mr.Jenner. And about how far distant from the Walker house is the Mormon church?
Mr.Surrey. It is on the next lot—I would say 400 feet, maybe.
Mr.Jenner. What is there intervening, if anything, between the Mormon church buildings and General Walker's home?
Mr.Surrey. In the way of a fence, you mean?
Mr.Jenner. Well, first; are there any buildings?
Mr.Surrey. No.
Mr.Jenner. Or any sheds or anything of that character?
Mr.Surrey. No.
Mr.Jenner. Are there any trees?
Mr.Surrey. Yes; there are trees.
Mr.Jenner. Is it heavily or lightly wooded?
Mr.Surrey. Lightly.
Mr.Jenner. There is a fence?
Mr.Surrey. Yes.
Mr.Jenner. A wooden fence?
Mr.Surrey. A wooden fence—about 5-foot tall.
Mr.Jenner. I see. Is that a lattice fence or a solid fence?
Mr.Surrey. Along this side here it is a solid fence.
Mr.Jenner. When you say this side, you are pointing to the driveway leading to Turtle Creek Boulevard?
Mr.Surrey. Yes; the fence actually is here. [Witness draws.]
Mr.Jenner. You have now put—he is indicating the fence. And that is a lattice or slat fence?
Mr.Surrey. That is a solid fence there. And then it is latticed along the alley.
Mr.Jenner. Which way does the front of General Walker's house face—on Turtle Creek Boulevard?
Mr.Surrey. On Turtle Creek.
Mr.Jenner. All right. That will be helpful to us. We will just set that exhibit aside for the moment.
Some of these photographs I am now about to show you—I now show you a photograph, Commission Exhibit No. 5, Item No. 369. Do you recognize that?
Mr.Surrey. Yes, I do. It is a photo of the back of General Walker's home.
Mr.Jenner. All right. Now, returning to your plat, Commission Exhibit No. 1005, is that the side of General Walker's house that faces the church?
Mr.Surrey. No.
Mr.Jenner. It is the side—is it the side that faces Dr. Jackson's home?
Mr.Surrey. No.
Mr.Jenner. Is it the side that faces onto or toward Turtle Creek Boulevard?
Mr.Surrey. No; it is not.
Mr.Jenner. Is it the side that faces toward the alley which you have drawn on Commission Exhibit No. 1005?
Mr.Surrey. Yes; it is.
Mr.Jenner. Fine. Now, you will notice in that photograph an automobile, but no license plate, and there appears to be obliterated an area in which a license plate might have appeared on that car.
Now, first, you do see the automobile?
Mr.Surrey. Yes; I have seen this photo before. Mr. Barrett of the FBI in Dallas brought this to my attention.
Mr.Jenner. Do you recognize the automobile?
Mr.Surrey. Not positively, but I think it belongs to Mr. Charles Klihr.
Mr.Jenner. And who is Mr. Charles Klihr?
Mr.Surrey. He is a volunteer worker of Mr. Walker's, also.
Mr.Jenner. Are you sufficiently familiar with Mr. Charles Klihr's automobile—you already identifiedit——
Mr.Surrey. No; I did not identify it. I cannot do that, sir.
Mr.Jenner. To the best of your ability is all I am suggesting, sir.
Mr.Surrey. Yes.
Mr.Jenner. Do you have a recollection as to whether there was a license plate or license plate fixture in or about the area in which the black spot on the automobile appears?
Mr.Surrey. I have seen Mr. Klihr's automobile many times. I have not seen it without a license plate, which I think I would note if it were not there.
Mr.Jenner. Yes; but located at or about in the vicinity of that black spot?
Mr.Surrey. I would say to the best of my knowledge; yes, sir.
Mr.Jenner. Thank you, sir. Were you at General Walker's home the evening of the attempted assassination, or attempt on his life?
Mr.Surrey. Yes, I was. After the shot. I was not there at the time.
Mr.Jenner. How soon after the shot were you there?
Mr.Surrey. About 15 minutes.
Mr.Jenner. How did you become aware that there had been an attempt on his life?
Mr.Surrey. He called me on the telephone at my home.
Mr.Jenner. And how far did you live from General Walker's home?
Mr.Surrey. About 2 miles.
Mr.Jenner. And you immediately drove over there?
Mr.Surrey. Yes.
Mr.Jenner. What kind of an automobile do you own and drive?
Mr.Surrey. A 1961 Ford convertible.
Mr.Jenner. And did you arrive at his home in that convertible?
Mr.Surrey. Yes, I did.
Mr.Jenner. What time of the day or night was this?
Mr.Surrey. This was about 9 to 9:30 in the evening.
Mr.Jenner. What day? I mean date.
Mr.Surrey. April 10th.
Mr.Jenner. What year?
Mr.Surrey. 1963.
Excuse me. This is 1964, isn't it.
Mr.Jenner. Yes, sir.
Mr.Surrey. So thiswould——
Mr.Jenner. Was this a year ago?
Mr.Surrey. It would be 1963, yes.
Mr.Jenner. I have marked a series of photographs as Commission Exhibits Nos. 1006 through 1012.
(The photographs referred to were marked Commission Exhibits Nos. 1006 through 1012, respectively, for identification.)
Mr.Jenner. These purport to be photographs of portions and places in—both inside and outside General Walker's home relating to the incident in question.
Would you be good enough to take them seriatim, identify them by exhibitnumber——
Mr.Surrey. Take them how?
Mr.Jenner. Seriatim, in series—commencing with Commission Exhibit 1006. And tell us if you are familiar with the photograph and whether it depicts a portion of General Walker's home, and, if so, what portion.
Mr.Surrey. I don't know what this is here in the back yard, but outside of that it looks like a picture of the window facing towards the alley which the shot came through.
Mr.Jenner. From the direction the shot came?
Mr.Surrey. Yes.
Mr.Jenner. And the marring on the molding of the window is the point of the screen and the window through which the bullet came?
Mr.Surrey. Yes.
Mr.Jenner. Did you examine that that evening?
Mr.Surrey. Yes; I did.
Mr.Jenner. Did you see the breach in the casement which is depicted on Commission Exhibit No. 1006?
Mr.Surrey. Yes; I did. What is this in the back? Do you happen to know?
Mr.Jenner. No; I don't. But I think I can bring it out. These photographs, I think, were taken fairly recently.
Have you been at General Walker's house in the last couple of weeks?
Mr.Surrey. Yes; I have.
Mr.Jenner. And have you had occasion to notice whether or not any repair whatsoever has been made or was made with respect to the marring of the molding?
Mr.Surrey. I don't believe it has.
That looks like a stack of cardboard back there. I am not familiar with it.
Mr.Jenner. Yes; it looks like heavy asbestos, or some wood out in the yard.
Mr.Surrey. I am not familiar with that.
Mr.Jenner. Now, look at Exhibit No. 1007.
Excuse me—the photograph Exhibit No. 1006 represents that casement in its present condition?
Mr.Surrey. Yes, sir; to the best of my knowledge.
Mr.Jenner. And also as it was when you saw it that night, April 10?
Mr.Surrey. No; the window was closed when I saw it that night.
Mr.Jenner. But the breach in the molding is the same on this photograph as it was when you saw it that night?
Mr.Surrey. Yes, sir.
Mr.Jenner. All right. Now, the next photograph is Exhibit No. 1007, and purports to be a photograph taken from the outside of General Walker's home with the camera pointed into his home.
Mr.Surrey. That is correct.
Mr.Jenner.And——
Mr.Surrey. It shows the same breach allegedly caused by abullet——
Mr.Jenner. That is shown on Exhibit 1006?
Mr.Surrey. Yes.
Mr.Jenner. And in the case of Exhibit No. 1006, that photograph represents the present condition of that casement and that window and that screen, as well as it was when you saw it on the evening of April 10, 1963? Insofar as the breach is concerned?
Mr.Surrey. Yes; I seem to recall more cobwebbing effect than it shows in the photograph.
Mr.Jenner. Exhibit No. 1008 purports to be a room in General Walker's home, and a wall with a bullet hole shown in it.
Mr.Surrey. Yes, sir.
Mr.Jenner. Do you recognize that room?
Mr.Surrey. Yes; I do.
Mr.Jenner. And is that a picture of one of the rooms in General Walker's home?
Mr.Surrey. Yes; it is.
Mr.Jenner. Where is it with respect to the room shown in Commission Exhibit No. 1007?
Mr.Surrey. It is the same room.
Mr.Jenner. The same room?
Mr.Surrey. Yes; all this material has been turned around, from that night.
Mr.Jenner. You are referring in your last comment to Commission Exhibit No. 1007, some pamphlet materials you see shown in that photograph?
Mr.Surrey. Yes.
Mr.Jenner. Now, turning your attention to Commission Exhibit No. 1008, does the wall that is shown on that exhibit face the casement window shown on Exhibit No. 1007, or is that the reverse side?
Mr.Surrey. It is the other wall, the other side of the room from the window.
Mr.Jenner. Is that the wall in which the bullet entered, or the wall, the side of the wall from which the bullet exited?
Mr.Surrey. That is the side of the wall that it entered.
Mr.Jenner. All right. Then I show you Commission Exhibit No. 1009.
Mr.Surrey. Yes; this is the next room now where the bullet exited.
Mr.Jenner. Now, taking Exhibits Nos. 1008 and 1009, am I correct, sir, that Exhibit No. 1008 shows the wall on the entry side of the bullet, and Exhibit No. 1009 is the reverse side of the wall shown on Commission Exhibit No. 1008?
Mr.Surrey. That is correct.
Mr.Jenner. In other words, the side of the wall that the bullet exited?
Mr.Surrey. That is correct.
Now, this picture was taken at the time, or soon thereafter, because this material was in this position.
(At this point, Senator Cooper withdrew from the hearing room.)
Mr.Jenner. All right, sir.
You are able to say, from your familiarity with the condition of matters on the evening of April 10, 1963, that both Commissionexhibits——
Mr.Surrey. No; that one I don't know.
Mr.Jenner. That Commission Exhibit No. 1009 depicts the condition of that room, which is the room to the reverse side of Commission Exhibit No. 1008, as it was the evening of April 10, 1963.
Mr.Surrey. Substantially the same; yes.
Mr.Jenner. And even including the boxes and packages of material?
Mr.Surrey. That is correct.
Mr.Jenner. You will notice in substantially the center of that exhibit a rupture appears to be in the wall. Was that in fact a rupture?
Mr.Surrey. Yes; it was. That is where the bullet came out of the wall, and when the police came they found the bullet on top of these packages.
Mr.Jenner. On top of the packages shown on Commission Exhibit No. 1009. I show you Exhibit No. 1011, which appears to be a photograph of a fence, lattice fence. Are you familiar with that?
Mr.Surrey. I believe it is the same type of thing as is in back of Walker's home, in the alleyway.
Mr.Jenner. Is it not in fact a picture of the fence that is—surrounds to the rear General Walker's home?
Mr.Surrey. I don't know. It is the same type, it looks the same.
Mr.Jenner. It looks the same to you?
Mr.Surrey. Yes.
Mr.Jenner. When you made your diagram, Exhibit No. 1005, you drew a wavy line along the alley, and I think you said that was a lattice fence.
Mr.Surrey. Yes; I drew it too far. This is Jackson's back yard.
Mr.Jenner. Well, that is all right. The lattice fence youidentified——
Mr.Surrey. Is of the same type and construction.
Mr.Jenner. As shown on Exhibit No. 1011?
Mr.Surrey. Yes.
Mr.Jenner. All right, sir. Thank you. Is the area depicted on Commission Exhibit No. 1012 familiar to you?
Mr.Surrey. It looks like a picture taken from the top of that lattice fence towards the back of Walker's home.
Mr.Jenner. Next is Commission Exhibit No. 1010, which is a photograph of a tire imprint. On the evening of April 10 or the next day, April 11, when it was light, did you tour around General Walker's home with him or without him? There was a search made tosee——
Mr.Surrey. Yes; there was.
Mr.Jenner. To find some identification in the way of automobile tire impressions?
Mr.Surrey. It is my impression that the police were looking primarily for a casing from a shell. I did not see them takeany——
Mr.Jenner. So that the particular portion of the Walker vicinity shown on Commission Exhibit No. 1010 is not familiar to you?
Mr.Surrey. I wouldn't know where it was in the area.
Mr.Jenner. Yes, sir.
TheChairman. Those have all been formally introduced, Mr. Jenner?
Mr.Jenner. No; they have not, Mr. Chief Justice. If it suits your convenience I was going to offer all exhibits at once, so I don't overlook any.
TheChairman. Yes; very well.
Mr.Jenner. Thank you. Some of the exhibits the witness has identified have already been introduced. They were exhibited to Marina Oswald.
TheChairman. Yes; I recall.
Mr.Jenner. Would you help us, also—I hand you a map of Dallas, which we will mark Commission Exhibit No. 1013—or I should correct myself—I hand you what purports to be a map of Dallas.
There is indicated by brush pencil a cross in the center of that map as representing the area of the residence of Maj. Gen. Edwin A. Walker, resigned, at 4011 Turtle Creek Boulevard in Dallas.
(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 1013 for identification.)
Mr.Surrey. Yes; that is correct. That is the area.
Mr.Jenner. That is a scale map of Dallas that appears to have been obtained from the Dallas Transit Co. in Dallas, Tex.
Mr.Surrey. Yes.
Mr.Jenner. Now, you received a telephone call from General Walker?
Mr.Surrey. Yes, sir.
Mr.Jenner. The evening of April 10. It was about 9 o'clock? Please try to fix that time as accurately as you can.
Mr.Surrey. I would say it was closer to 9:15.
Mr.Jenner. And you arrived 15 minutes later?
Mr.Surrey. 10 to 15 minutes later.
Mr.Jenner. Now, would you very carefully, calling on your most accurate recollection, recite for us—you came to the door, you entered, what did you see, who was there, and what was said to you by anyone, if anyone was there—just the course of events as best you are able to recall them that evening. And I will try not to interrupt you.
Mr.Surrey. When I pulled—I pulled up in front on Turtle Creek, got out of my car. A police car was there.
Mr.Jenner. Was there anything in addition to a police car?
Mr.Surrey. No.
Mr.Jenner. You pulled your car up on Turtle Creek Boulevard?
Mr.Surrey. Behind the police car.
Mr.Jenner. Would you be good enough, when you refer to Turtle Creek Boulevard, to say boulevard, because we have talked about Turtle Creek, a stream.