Mr.Jenner. This is a photostat of two news items in the Haitian paper in Port-au-Prince, together with a telegram.
Now, all those together comprised, did they, some of the promotion literature with respect to your Haitian venture?
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. Yes.
Mr.Jenner. In what respect? Can you give us the thrust of that?
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. In the respect that they acquaint the possible investor with the personalities involved.
Mr.Jenner. All right. Who is the gentleman who sent the telegram?
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. Mr. Tardieu.
Mr.Jenner. What is his first name?
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. Mr. B. Juindine Tardieu, who is the agent and you might say a broker who negotiated the contract with the Haitian Government.
Mr.Jenner.Well——
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. He is domiciled in Haiti.
Mr.Jenner. All right. Now, you had some correspondence with Clemard Joseph Charles?
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. Yes.
Mr.Jenner. Is the letter I now hand you, which we will identify as George S. De Mohrenschildt Exhibit No. 2, a photostatic copy of correspondence between you and that gentleman, a copy of which you transmitted to Paul Raigorodsky?
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. Yes; that is the letter I received.
(The document referred to was marked "George S. De Mohrenschildt Exhibit No. 2" for identification.)
Mr.Jenner. Now I will show you a series of three documents, the first sheet consisting of a photostat of an envelope addressed, I believe in your handwriting, to Mr. Paul Raigorodsky; is that correct?
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. Yes.
Mr.Jenner. In Dallas.
The next being a personal note of yours in your longhand to Mr. Raigorodsky; is that correct?
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. Yes, indeed.
Mr.Jenner. The next being in the form of a copy of a letter from you, dated July 27, 1962, to Mr. Jean de Menil.
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. Yes.
Mr.Jenner. In which you have written in the upper right-hand corner in your handwriting, "Copy for Mr. Raigorodsky."
Is what I have said correct?
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. Yes.
Mr.Jenner. And lastly, there appears to be promotional literature, one sheet, dated August 1, 1962, signed by you at the bottom?
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. Yes, indeed.
Mr.Jenner. And on your letterhead—George De Mohrenschildt, Petroleum Geologist and Engineer, 1639-40 Republican National Bank Building, Dallas 1, Tex.
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. Yes.
Mr.Jenner. Mr. Reporter, would you mark those in the record, I have given them to you, as "De Mohrenschildt Exhibits 3, 4, 5, and 6."
(The documents referred to were marked "De Mohrenschildt Exhibits 3, 4, 5, and 6" for identification.)
Mr.Jenner. In addition to those materials, did you also transmit to Mr. Raigorodsky two additional documents which I have in my hand—one a photostatic copy of a Western Union telegram, dated August 3, 1963, from Tardieu to you, and the second document a copy of a letter of yours to the gentlemen I mentioned a moment ago, Mr. Jean de Menil; dated August 7, 1962, upon which there appears some handwritten notes of yours to Mr. Raigorodsky?
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. Yes, sir.
Mr.Jenner. Is that your handwriting?
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. Yes, sir; that is right.
Mr.Jenner. Mr. Reporter, mark those documents, if you will, as "De Mohrenschildt Exhibits 7 and 16."
(The documents referred to were marked "De Mohrenschildt Exhibits 7 and 16" for identification.)
Mr.Jenner. On September 12, you appear to have transmitted some additional materials to Mr. Raigorodsky. I hold in my hand three documents.
The first, a photostatic copy of an envelope, with your letterhead in the upper left-hand corner, your Dallas office, addressed to Mr. Paul Raigorodsky.
The second, a letter signed "George and Jeanne" over a typewritten signature, "Jeanne and George De Mohrenschildt."
Is the George and Jeanne in handwriting your handwriting?
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. Yes.
Mr.Jenner. And this letter is dated September 12, 1963. You transmitted that letter to Mr. Raigorodsky?
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. Yes, indeed.
Mr.Jenner. In the envelope we have just identified. And did you also enclose the third document, which is a diagramof——
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. Of the planned development in Haiti.
Mr.Jenner. And it has in the lower left-hand corner in longhand "Credits available for these industries—George De M., Dallas, September 11, 1963." Is that your handwriting?
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. Yes, indeed.
Mr.Jenner. Did you also send Mr. Raigorodsky a map of Haiti, in which you—excuse me.
Mr. Reporter, would you mark the three documents I have just identified as De Mohrenschildt Exhibits 8, 9, and 10.
(The documents referred to were marked "De Mohrenschildt Exhibits 8, 9, and 10" for identification.)
Mr.Jenner. Mr. Reporter, identify the next document as De Mohrenschildt Exhibit No. 11.
(The document referred to was marked "De Mohrenschildt Exhibit No. 11" for identification.)
Mr.Jenner. For the purpose of the record, it is the description map of Haiti. This is a map published by the Texaco Co., and it is available to anybody who wants to pick up a map at a gasoline service station, is it not?
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. Yes.
Mr.Jenner. It is not a fancy geologist's map, for example?
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. No.
Mr.Jenner. Did you send that to Mr. Raigorodsky?
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. Yes, indeed.
Mr.Jenner. There is some longhand on it, do you see that?
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. Yes.
Mr.Jenner. And is that your longhand?
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. Yes.
Mr.Jenner. In the upper right-handcorner——
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. It shows the possibilityfor——
Mr.Jenner. Excuse me. I just want you to read the words, and not elaborate. I am going to have you elaborate on them. There is in the upper right-hand corner first near the letter "A" of "Atlantic," an arrow pointing to the left, to a small island. What are the words there?
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. "New resorts."
Mr.Jenner. And then to the right of that inscription, there are three lines of words, and an arrow pointing to an area in which I see the word "Caracol." Read those words.
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. "New resort, Chou-Chou Beach."
Mr.Jenner. All right.
Now, in the lower left-hand portion of the upper right-hand quadrant there appears an inscription with an arrow pointing to "Mont Rouis." And then below that, over what appears to be a series of islands encircled, there appears more writing.
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. "Oil possibilities on this island."
Mr.Jenner. All right. Do the words "on this island" appear?
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. No. Just "oil possibilities."
Mr.Jenner. I am just getting the wording first, and then I will have you explain it all later.
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. "Our Shada concession."
Mr.Jenner. Now, the words "Our Shada concession" are the words at the lead end of the arrow which points to Mont Rouis, which you have already identified in the record.
Now, to the extreme right, and at the margin, opposite the inscriptions we have just described, there is some more writing. Would you read that?
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. "Brown and Root built this dam."
Mr.Jenner. All right. Now, there is an encirclement around—between the two we have identified, but above—it looks as though the center of this island here—there is an inscription. This appears in the area—there is an X there—an airplane indication Hinche and there is some writing. What is that?
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. "Oil possibilities."
Mr.Jenner. All right. Now, Port-au-Prince is encircled. Then at the bottom, which is the lower right-hand quadrant, there is an arrow pointed to Pationville. And that arrow leads to some handwriting.
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. "Ibolele Hotel."
Mr.Jenner. Now, to the left of that inscription, and in the center of the map, the lower half, there is an encirclement that encircles an area, the chief town of which appears to be what?
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. Lescayes.
Mr.Jenner. And what is written there?
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. "Oil possibilities."
Mr.Jenner. Now, I guess we have gotten everything you have written on there. Now, with those papers, would you proceed to tell us now about your Haitian venture, and take those papers, since they seem to be in some order of sequence as to time, and tell us all about it.
Mr.De Mohrenschildt.Well——
Mr.Jenner. In other words, this venture is no mite, is it?
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. No. It started—it already started by my previous work there in 1956. It is the result of many trips I took to Haiti in the meantime. And it is a result of an effort which started in 1961.
I have in my possession a letter from the minister of mineswhich—
Mr.Jenner. Of what country?
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. Of Haiti. Dated in 1961, giving me an opportunity to present a geological survey of Haiti.
Mr.Jenner. What was that to be for?
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. This was to search and study the oil and gas and all the mineralogical points of the whole country.
Mr.Jenner. Did this have anything, any purpose or intent, other than a legitimate effort on your part, on behalf of the Haitian Government, to you as a petroleum engineer and geologist, to discover in Haiti mineral deposits thatmight be of economic value to Haiti, and to those who might be willing to risk their capital to develop it?
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. This is the only purpose I have—purely business promotional project.
Mr.Jenner. And this is in no way linked, directly, indirectly, or in any remote possibility, with any mapping of this country with great care for the possibility of its being employed by any other nation or group?
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. No; no other nation could use my maps, and no other project, except our own commercial and geological project—nothing else.
Anyway, the whole Island of Haiti has been mapped in complete precision by the U.S. Government already, and the maps are available right here in Washington. And my office in Port-au-Prince, actually they are officers of Inter-American Geodetic Survey.
On one side is the American representative of the Geodetic Survey, and on the other side I am doing my geological work in the same building. He helps me with some of his equipment, some of his advice, some of his maps, and we pursue our own work there.
I employed in the last 8 months since we have been in Haiti an Italian geologist who came specially to Haiti from South America, with all the equipment, and stayed with us for several months. I employed a Swiss assistant. I employed—I am employing an American geologist right now, recommended by the University of Texas, who is living in Haiti with his family, and whose salary I am paying; I am responsible for him.
I have also, in addition to that, employed a prospector from Alaska, an American. And I am employing a group of Haitian engineers and geologists—engineers, not geologists, because they don't have geologists. Engineers. And it is a project which—for which the Haitian Government is supposed to pay me $285,000, out of which they pay $20,000 in cash, and the rest they are paying from the interest in the sisal plantation at Mont Rouis.
This plantation started to be operated jointly by Mr. Clemard J. Charles, president of the Commercial Bank of Haiti, and myself; and now Mr. Charles is operating it for me, doing all the administrative work, and I am pursuing my geological work.
Up to now, we found some things which were indicated on the map here.
Mr.Jenner. I don't want you to reveal any business secret, because I appreciate—all I am getting at is the general description of the project, and its good faith.
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. That is right. I hope that this will be sufficiently justified in good faith.
Mr.Jenner. And these documents we have identified are documents which you sent to Mr. Raigorodsky with what thought in mind?
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. With the thought of having him eventually participate in various enterprises which may come out of it.
Mr.Jenner. Such as?
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. Such as development of small industries, development of oil production, development of new hotels and new resorts, et cetera. Because the country is open to new business and I think has excellent opportunities for American investments.
Mr.Jenner. All right. Now, you have expressed an opinion, have you not, as to the activity or lack of activity on the part of the FBI in connection with the assassination of the President?
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. Well, I think that they should have sent away from Dallas every suspicious person, like any other country would do—when somebody—when an important figure arrives to town, and there are deranged people, or people who have habits of shooting guns at targets or ones who have been traitors to their country to some extent, you know—any controversial people should be not necessarily put to jail, but sent away from the town.
Mr.Jenner. And you have Lee Oswald in mind, do you?
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. Yes; I have Lee Oswald in mind.
Mr.Jenner. You assume that the FBI was aware that he had this weapon, and he was target practicing with it?
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. That I do not know, whether they had that knowledgeof the weapon. But it is not for me to judge them. But I think they should have known. If they didn't know, they should have known.
Mr.Jenner. And I take it your opinion, whether they did or did not know of the weapon, they had other information with respect to Oswald's attempted defection and matters of that nature which youfeel——
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. They must have had that information.
Mr.Jenner. And as an American citizen, it is your view that they should have done what?
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. I think they should have—in my opinion, they shouldn't have let him come back to the United States—No. 1.
And No. 2, the people like us should have been protected against even knowing people like Oswald. Maybe I am wrong in that respect.
Mr.Jenner. Well, it is an opinion. That is all I am asking you for.
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. And thirdly, Oswald was known as a violent character, especially in the last time. He was known, as I read from the papers, that he participated in pro-Castro demonstrations in New Orleans. That is what I read in the papers. And so therefore, he should have been kept away from Dallas when the President was there.
Mr.Jenner. Mr. Reporter, would you mark the Auchincloss letter, dated February 2, 1964, and its accompanying envelope as De Mohrenschildt Exhibits 12 and 13, respectively?
(The documents referred to were marked "De Mohrenschildt Exhibits 12 and 13," for identification.)
Mr.Jenner. And the Auchincloss letter of December 12, 1963, and its accompanying envelope as De Mohrenschildt Exhibits 14 and 15, respectively.
(The documents referred to were marked "De Mohrenschildt Exhibits 14 and 15," for identification.)
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. All these contracts in Haiti have been made official by an act of Congress of Haiti on March 13, 1963, and signed by the president of the country and by all the ministers, stipulating that the price of the geological survey would be $285,000, and the consideration for it will be the concession of the sisal in Haiti, originally an American company called Shada, built by the U.S. Department of Agriculture and developed during the war, and later on sold to the Haitian Government. This concession is given to me for the duration of 10 years, with an extended duration of 10 years more. I think that will explain it.
Mr.Jenner. Fine.
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. I could talk for hours about this project, because it was developed through so many years, and so much effort.
Mr.Jenner. In order that the correspondence be complete, Mr. De Mohrenschildt has produced for me the response he received to his letter of December 12, 1963, to Mrs. Auchincloss.
Mr. De Mohrenschildt, since it is a personal letter, I will ask you to read the letter in evidence. It has a longhand note on it. You might want to keep the original. So just read it. And just for the purpose of the record, and not because I suspicion you, I will watch you read it.
It is on letterhead, 3044 O Street, Northwest, Washington, D.C.
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. That is correct.
"Dear George:
"Thank you for your letter and for your sympathy for Jacqueline. Please accept my deepest sympathy in the loss of your son. How tragic for you.
"It seems extraordinary to me that you knew Oswald and that you knew Jackie as a child. It is certainly a very strange world."
Mr.Jenner. Hold it a minute. The second paragraph begins with the words "It seems."
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. "You did not say why you were in Haiti, so I imagine that you are in our Foreign Service. If you come to Washington again, I would like to talk with you, and I would very much like to meet your wife. When you next write to Dimitri, will you send him my warmest regards, and thank him for his sympathy."
Mr.Jenner. Dimitri is your brother?
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. Yes.
Mr.Jenner. Now, there is a longhand note.
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. Yes.
"I live now in Georgetown. Your letter has made me think a good deal. I hope too—that Mrs. Oswald will not suffer.
"Very sincerely, Janet Lee Auchincloss."
Mr.Jenner. Dated?
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. Wednesday, January 29.
Mr.Jenner. All right. You just keep that original.
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. Thank you.
Mr.Jenner. I show you what purports to be a transcript of a Christmas card, 1963, allegedly transmitted by you, appearing at page 3, Commission Document 703-F. Would you read it, please?
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. This paragraph?
Mr.Jenner. The whole card.
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. "Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. Best wishes for 1964, George and Jeanne De M.
"Alex is in New York State, supposedly working at some mental hospital. Gary Taylor takes care of Cousin Lil. Nancy is alive, still kicking. We are happy here. Appalled at the crimes in Dallas.
"George."
Mr.Jenner. You transmitted that Christmas card with that inscription?
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. Yes.
Mr.Jenner. Now, would you explain your statement, "appalled at the crimes in Dallas"?
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. Well, I mean the assassination of the President and subsequent assassination of Lee Oswald by Ruby, and the assassination by Oswald of this policeman—three assassinations, one after another.
Mr.Jenner. All right. By the way, did you ever see Jack Ruby in the flesh?
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. Never; no. On TV you mean?
Mr.Jenner. No.
Did you know him when you were in Dallas?
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. No.
Mr.Jenner. To the best of your recollection, had you ever seen him when you were in Dallas?
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. Don't recall.
Mr.Jenner. Was his name ever mentioned at any conversation that took place in the presence of Lee Oswald while you were present?
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. Never.
Mr.Jenner. Was at any time there any conversation, or did anything occur while you were in Dallas to lead you to believe directly or indirectly, or to any degree whatsoever, that Lee Oswald knew Jack Ruby?
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. No, sir; not one indication.
Mr.Jenner. Did anything occur in Dallas by way of any statements to you, statements made in your presence, or anything you noticed or saw, that would lead you at any time while you were in Dallas, to lead you to believe that Lee Oswald was ever in the Carousel Club in Dallas?
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. No.
Mr.Jenner. Did you try to interest Mr. Kitchel in your Haiti venture?
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. Yes.
Mr.Jenner. And he did not join?
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. No.
Mr.Jenner. That was a friendly gesture on your part, was it?
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. Yes.
Mr.Jenner. I am pleased to say to you that he so regarded it.
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. I am glad to hear that.
Mr.Jenner. That he thought you were in good faith, offering him an opportunity to participate, and you were not thinking in terms of any business advantage.
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. No, no.
Mr.Jenner. And that is the fact; is it?
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. Yes; of course. I offered this project to quite a few people, and it so happened that at the time they were afraid of Haiti, and I amvery happy to say that I am now the sole proprietor of the whole project. It may be all for the best.
Mr.Jenner. I will show the witness pages 4, 5 and 6 and 7 of Commission Document No. 542. I wish to direct your attention primarily to the—what purports to be a letter from you to Mr. Kitchel, setting forth the background of information on a holding company that you were developing in Haiti. Would you read the letter?
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. "Haitian Holding Company."
Mr.Jenner. Excuse me. It may already be in evidence.
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. "August 1, 1962."
Mr.Jenner. I think not—but if you will hold a minute. What I have just shown you is a copy of De Mohrenschildt Exhibit No. 6.
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. Yes, sir; this was followed, of course, by many other letters and correspondence with our prospective investors and people who might be interested in a mining development of Haiti.
I am negotiating right now with an aluminum company for the development of bauxite, and with oil companies in regard to development of oil possibilities.
Mr.Jenner. Mr. De Mohrenschildt, we have had some discussions off the record, and I had lunch with you a couple of times. Is there anything that we discussed during the course of any off-the-record discussions which I have not already brought out on the record that you think is pertinent and should be brought out?
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. I don't remember any.
Mr.Jenner. None occurs to you?
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. No.
Mr.Jenner. Now, I don't know everything by any means. I will ask you this general question. Is there anything else, despite all our careful investigation, and my questioning of you at some length, that you think is pertinent and might be helpful to the Commission in its important work, and if you can think of anything, would you please mention it?
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. Frankly, I cannot think of anything else you could do. All the rest—what else can you do except investigate as much as you can?
Mr.Jenner. Mr. De Mohrenschildt, you appear here voluntarily and at some inconvenience?
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. Yes, sir.
Mr.Jenner. And on behalf of the Commission, and the Commission staff, I want to express our appreciation to you for having come to this country, at some inconvenience, and your answering my questions here for 2 days spontaneously and directly. Some of them have been highly personal. But you have exhibited no discomfiture because they have been personal. We appreciate your assistance and your help.
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. I hope I have been helpful to some extent.
Mr.Jenner. Now, as I spoke to you yesterday, you have a right to read your deposition, and to sign it, and you told me I think yesterday that you would like to read it over.
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. If it won't be a very lengthy job and very hurried job to do that, and inconvenience the reporter. I think I have said everything I could know. I don't think I could add or change very much. It is all right as far as I am concerned.
Mr.Jenner. As far as you are concerned, you would just as soon waive the necessity of reading and signing?
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. Yes.
Mr.Jenner. Fine.
Mr.De Mohrenschildt. If I made a mistake, it was involuntary. I might have missed a date or something. But I did to the best of my ability.
Mr.Jenner. We will have your deposition by tomorrow. And Mrs. De Mohrenschildt will be here tomorrow.
If you would like to come over and read it, you may. Otherwise, if you don't return to read it, we will consider that you have waived it.
I offer in evidence the exhibits I have heretofore marked, being De Mohrenschildt Exhibits 1 through 16, inclusive.
The testimony of Jeanne De Mohrenschildt was taken at 4:45 p.m., on April 23, 1964, at 200 Maryland Avenue NE., Washington, D.C. by Mr. Albert E. Jenner, Jr., assistant counsel of the President's Commission.
Mr.Jenner. Do you solemnly swear to tell the truth, and nothing but the truth, in the course of your deposition which I am about to take?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. Yes.
Mr.Jenner. You are Mrs. George S. De Mohrenschildt?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. Why "S"? The "S" doesn't belong there at all.
Mr.Jenner. Well, he acknowledged that it does.
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. S?
Mr.Jenner. Yes. Sergei.
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. I have a brother by the same name Sergei, and he had a son by the name Sergei. Maybe he wants to add the letter to our name.
Mr.Jenner. No. It shows in the records for many, many years.
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. I never knew that. Sergei is his father's name—that is what it is.
Mr.Jenner. You have a brother whose name is Sergei, do you not?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. Yes.
Mr.Jenner. Sergei Michail Fomenko.
Give me your full maiden name. Your name as you were born and given to you by your parents.
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. The first name will be Eugenia.
Mr.Jenner.And——
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. I have no middle name. Just Fomenko.
Mr.Jenner. Now, your mother's name was Tatiana?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. Tatiana. My father, Michail.
Mr.Jenner. And your father was Michail L.?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. Yes. That is for—his father was Lev.
Mr.Jenner. You were born in China?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. Yes.
Mr.Jenner. Our information is it was at Harbin.
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. That is right.
Mr.Jenner. What is the nearest town?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. Nearest town to what?
Mr.Jenner. Harbin.
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. I would not—I cannot say.
Mr.Jenner. What part of China?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. It is Manchuria. The northern part of China, close to the Siberian border.
Mr.Jenner. You mean the Russian-Chinese border?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. Yes.
Mr.Jenner. Do you have a sister?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. From what I recall, we had a—we had three portraits in the house, of children—my portrait, my brother's portrait, and there was a portrait of a little girl. And the portrait—she was about 3 or 4 years old. I don't know how, where did they get that idea, or was I actually told—but she is supposed to be my half-sister—Alexandra her name was supposed to be. And I think my father was married before he married my mother, but, you know, they don't tell much to children, and we never asked anything. We have never had any curiosity about it.
Mr.Jenner. You are a naturalized citizen of this Nation, are you not?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. Yes.
Mr.Jenner. Were you naturalized on April 6, 1936?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. No—couldn't. I came here in 1938. How could you possibly get that?
Mr.Jenner. All right. I am misadvised. I was looking at the wrong thing. You were naturalized when?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. I believe it was 1945, but I cannot be absolutely sure. I have my papers in the hotel. 1944 or 1945, maybe it is 1944. If you wantthe exact date, I can easily get it for you. Do you actually have information, naturalized in 1936?
Mr.Jenner. No, I don't. I have your immigration record here. I will find it in a moment. You became a U.S. citizen in proceedings in the U.S. district court, in New York City, February 28, 1945.
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. 1945.
Mr.Jenner. Were you born on May 5, 1914?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. Right.
Mr.Jenner. Your parents, were they Russian citizens?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. My father took a Chinese passport, and I cannot tell you whether he already had it when I was born, or whether he took one later. But I believe he took one later. He took probably one later, when they sold the railroad to the Reds, you know. That is when he took the Chinese passport.
Mr.Jenner. He was born in Russia?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. Yes.
Mr.Jenner. And your mother was born in Russia?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. To my knowledge, yes. They were living a few years in China before I was born.
Mr.Jenner. Now, in what business or occupation or government service was your father engaged?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. My father was in charge of the Far Eastern railroad.
Mr.Jenner. For what country?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. For China. He was working directly with the Chinese Government and with Chinese officials, with Chinese people. And then in 1925, when the Chinese sold therailroad——
Mr.Jenner. When what?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. In 1925, the Chinese people sold the railroad to the Russians, and they changed the tracks, connected with the Trans-Siberian Railroad. My father resigned. And he received quite a lot of money from that. He had been in the service for quite a few years.
Mr.Jenner. You were 11 years old then?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. 1925; yes.
Mr.Jenner. And you were personally aware of this event?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. Oh, yes; I knew about that. I cannot tell you—that is recollections of the past. And he started to build another railroad on his own called HoHi Railroad.
Mr.Jenner. Excuse me.
You came to this country on August 4, 1938.
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. Right; San Francisco.
Mr.Jenner. All right. Now, your father, as you said, was director of a Chinese Eastern railroad.
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. That is right.
Mr.Jenner. I was looking for some papers here. The Chinese sold the railroad to Russia?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. Yes.
Mr.Jenner. That was in 1925?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. That is how I understood it.
Mr.Jenner. In any event, your father ceased at that time to be director of the Chinese Eastern Railroad.
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. That is right. He resigned, and in fact we were planning to come to the United States, the whole family. We wanted to come to the United States.
Mr.Jenner. Why?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. Just because it is not our country to live there forever. We were brought up with white people, you know.
Mr.Jenner. Why did your father resign when the railroad was sold to the Russians?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. Because from what I know they wanted him to take a Communist passport, and he refused.
Mr.Jenner. Was he anti-Communist?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. That is from what I know he is supposed to have Chinese passport.
Mr.Jenner. Was he anti-Communist?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. Oh, absolutely, absolutely. He was—not the chief, but the elderly friend for the Scouts. We had a wonderful Scout organization, Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts. He was very, very active in that. He was sort of like a patron for it. We have a marvelous organization in China. In fact, I didn't see anywhere in the world yet—how well it was conducted.
Mr.Jenner. Now, what happened to your father eventually?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. We never could, since 1941, right after PearlHarbor——
Mr.Jenner. What?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. After Pearl Harbor, we didn't have any communications at all, neither myself nor my brother. We tried to check through the Red Cross and find out. Nothing could be done. We just couldn't find out. Whenever I saw some people that returned from China, came over, and whenever I asked them what happened to my parents, did you see them, how are they, they never said a word, said they didn't know, they just disappeared. Then in 1957, when I saw my brother, he told me that he didn't want to tell me, but he found out in 1945 and he knew then they were both dead for quite a while already. Father was killed by the Communists.
Mr.Jenner. Which Communists?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. Well, I don't know which ones—the Chinese or Reds or Japanese—I don't know who. And he was taken on the railroad—that is, usual procedure, they take you on a car somewhere and shoot you. And my brother told me he died in 1941. I don't know how he found out. I assume and I think that the American government helped him, because he is in rather secret work. He could not possibly do it, havingparents——
Mr.Jenner. This is your brother who lives out in California?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. Yes.
Mr.Jenner. Now, you eventually—before you came to the United States, were you married?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. Yes; I was married to my first husband.
Mr.Jenner. Did you marry in China?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. Yes.
Mr.Jenner. And what was the name of your first husband?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. He had a few first names, and to tell you the truth I don't know which one is the right one. I cannot say. Because half of the friends called him by one name, half of the friends called him by the other name.
Mr.Jenner.Well——
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. The first name was Valentin, and the second one was Bob—they called him Bob. So which one is right, I don't know. But I liked Bob better.
Mr.Jenner. What was his last name?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. His last name was Bogoiavlensky.
Mr.Jenner. And you were married when?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. I believe we were married in 1932, in the fall.
Mr.Jenner. In what business or profession was your husband engaged when you were married?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. Well, at the time when we were married, he was—we were both working, making designs and constructions—making plans and building houses together.
Mr.Jenner. Were you associated in business?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. It wasn't exactly business. I don't know—it is not done like it is done in the United States. We just knew how to build houses, we knew all the measurements and everything, and we had the project—somebody wanted a house of such and such dimensions, we would design it, make all the blueprints, and then we had worked with contractors and had the building constructed. And then I believe he was also working in the—the Japanese were building their airport.
Mr.Jenner. Where?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. In Harbin. And he was helping and surveying the grounds or something. This I don't know, because I wasn't present—something on this order. And that is what really actually made us leave north in a hurry and go south, because the Japanese started to grab all the people that knew anything at all close to those plants. They wanted to keep everything very, very secret. So quite a few of our friends just disappeared overnight.
And then in a couple of weeks they may appear again half dead already, completely beaten to a pulp and so on. Quite a few things started to go on. And then somebody mentioned that they didn't like the idea that we knew too much about the plants or something of the airport and said we better leave, and we just left with very, very few things. We took a train and went south, and went to Shanghai, and lived in Shanghai, until we were ready to come to the United States.
Mr.Jenner. While you were in China, were you and your husband—did you engage as a dancing team?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. Yes; I was dancing quite well.
You see, when you travel like that you cannot just get another job somewhere. So he was helping me. He helped me as a partner. And I danced a solo.
We did that in Tientsin. And then Shanghai.
Mr.Jenner. And in order to supportyourselves——
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. We were a dancing team.
You see, it was a temporary period, but if things go well, we were doing very well really. Fate does strange things to you—throws you from one profession to another. You think it is the greatest tragedy—I will tell you later what happened to me—and it is the best, actually.
So it was working out very well. We were quite successful. And then something happened later.
Mr.Jenner. Now, did you change your name at this period of your life?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. We changed the name when we started dancing.
Mr.Jenner. And you changed your name to what?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. LeGon. We picked up the name out of the dancing magazine. But with this name—you see how it happens. You get so involved that you have to stick to it. You cannot just—you knew—because some people know you by this name, then you start with another name, and it sounds ridiculous. But since then already we had it. And we intended that when we came over, we are going to adopt it, because personally I don't think it is fair to our friend, and it is not fair for the country to use a name like Bogoiavlensky, or a name like De Mohrenschildt. If it would be up to me, I would cut the other one down.
It took me 3 months to learn to pronounce that name.
Mr.Jenner. There have been some people that because of the name LeGon—that you had some French. You are not French?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. No, I will tell you. I had to start in New York to do something, had a little girl a year old, and my husband had terrible trouble to get any kind of work. He was making $18 a week.
Mr.Jenner. In 1938?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. No; it was 1940, 1941, when my little girl was born.
Mr.Jenner. Your daughter was born in this country?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. Oh, yes.
Mr.Jenner. And your daughter's name?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. That is why I could not dance any more. I had to drop completely dancing and everything.
Mr.Jenner. Now, that you have mentioned your daughter, let's cover her.
What was her given name?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. Her given name was Jeanne Elinor LeGon. Also after a dancer.
Mr.Jenner. Eleanor Powell?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. Yes, exactly. And being unaware—you see, in Europe if you have two names, the first name is important, the second one is usually your mother's or somebody, and you have it just in case.
In the States the last name is the one that counts—the previous names don't mean much.
So when she was born, we were not citizens yet, and we didn't have a legal paper of changing our name to LeGon. So in her birth certificate I put down Jeanne Elinor LeGon and just in case, Bogoiavlensky, so just in case something happened to us she would not be an orphan thrown somewhere—I was so afraid something would go wrong and she would be put out of the country or something—she was born here, and that is her name, and I put that Bogoiavlensky on the birth certificate.
And that started the whole uproar.
And besides—I lost her birth certificate once when I needed it for a passport—I could not find it, because I was looking under "L"—I told them to look under "L". And for months they were looking under "L" and then it dawned on me, did I put, by any chance, Bogoiavlensky.
So they filed it under "B".
Well, it is my own fault—I asked for it. I can't get rid of that name.
It is a pretty name. In fact, it is a very novel name. But I don't think it belongs in this country. I think it is ridiculous for people to have such long names. If you are a priest's family, that would be fine. But not for us.
Mr.Jenner. When was your daughter born?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. She mas born April 30, 1941.
Mr.Jenner. I might go back with your husband.
Where was your husband born, your first husband?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. From what I know, he was born in—I think in Russia—and brought out as a very, very little boy. And I never met his father. His mother was supposed to be dead when he was born. I only knew his stepmother, who was absolutely wonderful.
He had two half brothers, charming boys, and they were both lost in the war with China and Japan. We never could find them. One of them was with the British forces and another with the French forces. And I understand one was sent to Hong Kong, and the other remained in Shanghai. And we never heard from them.
So that is one of the really big tragedies. We were anxious to find them, because we were going to get them over here. They had good heads. They could grow up very fine.
Mr.Jenner. You have always regarded the United States as a haven?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. Absolutely. It was the country by choice, because we could have gone to Europe. But I didn't want anything—this was from so and so. I said I wanted to have a country where everything is new and fresh, and if I break something I go to the store and buy another one.
I never have anything you can break. It was just because I was brought up with furniture with little gilded things in it, I don't want any part of it. I have been in Europe about 15 times after.
Mr.Jenner. I know you have.
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. And I enjoy being there for a few weeks. But I would never live in Europe. I would not be happy.
If I had to, I would live there, but I don't like—the whole atmosphere doesn't appeal to me.
Mr.Jenner. There have been various reports on your views with respect to Russia and communism.
What are your views?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. What I am?
Mr.Jenner. What are your views?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. My views?
Well, I tell you. I am not a Communist by all means at all. I think that revolution in Russia was inevitable. It is just horrible that it happened that way, and it was so bloody, and so manypeople——
Mr.Jenner. You are talking now about the revolution of the 1920's?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. 1917, I think.
Mr.Jenner. 1918, 1919.
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. 1917, 1918—that is when it started. I know in fact very little of the whole thing, because at home there was never any conversation—too many people were killed. In fact, from what I understand, all the familiesof my father and mother were killed, too. So we never had any conversation about it. We just were kept away from the whole thing.
And, beside, I deliberately stayed away from all of that. I said it is none of my business, I have never been there, I don't know what it is all about, I don't want to know anything about it. I don't want to be prejudiced to anything.
But after, later on, when I grew up and the revolution was necessary, it is just too bad it happened like that.
And I do hope that the country eventually will come out and become human again, and I think it is getting to be more and more human.
But it is still a far cry from freedom, from the freedom like we have. That was the most wonderful thing. When I came here—unfortunately, I landed in New York. I didn't want to, but my brother was in New York and he said you come right away to New York.
I love California, because of the climate. I like sunshine. So I came to New York, and New York, of course, was very depressing to me, because it was dirty. And I had an idea that all the white countries and white cities must be clean, because white people are not supposed to spit on the floor, and they don't throw papers around. They are supposed to be well mannered.
And then I came in in that awful New York. And, of course, I had almost no money. I had to use subways. It was very, very bad.
But then I saw all of a sudden on the street there is a gathering of people, somebody is standing and shouting and talking and saying anything he wants to. And I said, what is going on? They said he is just saying something—I forgot what it was all about. But how people were talking freely and expressing themselves openly.
Mr.Jenner. They had a right to do that?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. Yes; And in China—you see, we were always—we never could say anything openly, for many reasons.
First, I don't know, but I assume there was a lot of Red spies probably everywhere. So we could never say too much.
Then there were Japanese that came over. We couldn't say anything again.
So we were trained as children just to be quiet, never talk because you never know who may overhear, and then tomorrow goodbye, something will happen to you. That is the atmosphere that I was brought up in.
I wish my husband would be brought up in that atmosphere, because sometimes he says things—of course, being European, he likes to see Russia.
I said, yes, but not yet, because you would not last there for 2 days, you would be shot in 2 days. He doesn't feel that there is a place, places that you cannot be like he is. You just cannot do it. Maybe that is why he has so much trouble, because he just talks anything he wants to say, and people misinterpret it. People misinterpret it, and then they hear something, somebody repeated, already something else, and then they say he says something bad. This is really terrible. This is many, many times, you know. But he learned his lesson now. Living in Haiti we cannot talk very much, either, with Papa Doc. You know the regime there now. He is quite a dictator. He is going to be pronounced the king now, at the end of May. And, of course, there is tremendous opposition against it. It is not for our sake, but for our Haitian friends' sake, we cannot say anything.
So he learned a little bit of the atmosphere where you cannot talk.
He said—"I am so glad we went to Haiti, because I have no desire to go to Russia."
That was wonderful. It was music to my ears.
I said, "Now, you learn."
Mr.Jenner.Well——
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. But some day I hope, anyway. I would like to see it. I would like to go down south to the Crimea which I understand is beautiful, the Black Sea. I would like to see all the world.
I saw quite a lot.
But I would like to see that, too.
Mr.Jenner. Your brother, Sergei, he came over to this country, did he?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. What?
Mr.Jenner. Don't you have a brother by the nameof——
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. Did he what?
Mr.Jenner. He came to this country?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. Oh, yes. I believe he came in 1930.
Mr.Jenner. And he is still here?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. Oh, yes.
Mr.Jenner. And where is he located now?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. He is in Woodland Hills, Calif.
Mr.Jenner. Engagedin——
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. I think it is 4560 Deseret Drive.
He is with North American Aircraft Co. He just switched. He was with Ramo Wooldridge. A few years before that he was with Linnet Co. in Beverly Hills, and before that with Howard Hughes, and before that he was with Berkeley, University at Berkeley, doing some research.
Mr.Jenner. He attended the University of Chicago?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. He attended after the war. But he originally came over to study in Berkeley. He graduated from Berkeley. But then when the war broke out he volunteered—he was 2½ years in service. But he was never sent over, because he did so much important research work, that they kept him here.
And he met Professor Rasby of Chicago University. And then he went to work with him in Chicago University for very, very little money, but he had all the facilities for his work. That is where he met his second wife, a very lovely woman, and they are very happy now, I hope. Four little kinds, darling home.
Mr.Jenner. And you eventually were divorced from your first husband?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. Yes.
Mr.Jenner. He retained the name Robert LeGon?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. Yes.
Mr.Jenner. He didn't change his name back to Bogoiavlensky?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. No.
By the way, do you know he is in a rest home?
Mr.Jenner. Yes; I do.
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. There was a lot of unpleasantness around in that time, because he was already going off completely.
Mr.Jenner. And you were divorced from him in the summer of 1959?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. Oh, no, no; before that. It was 1957, spring of 1957. Yes; it was in the spring of 1957.
I believe it was first of May or something. I don't remember exactly. But it is pretty close.
Mr.Jenner. And you married your present husband, George De Mohrenschildt, in the summer of 1959?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. 1959, yes; in June, towards the end of June.
Mr.Jenner. And your daughter who was born to you in New YorkCity——
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. In Manhattan Hospital.
Mr.Jenner. She was—her given namewas——
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. Jeanne Elinor LeGon.
Mr.Jenner. And she changed her name to Christiana?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. Yes; her father did it. She was just a youngster.
You know what happened to him mentally. He went completely—I don't know, maybe when people go crazy, lots of things begin to bother them, maybe his conscience was bothering him because he dropped his father's name or something. But for a particular reason he didn't take it himself, but he put it—insisted that my daughter will take the name.
Mr.Jenner. What name?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. Bogoiavlensky—and drop the LeGon. And she was baptized—she was brought up as Episcopalian. I never baptized her, because I wanted her to choose her own religion when she grew up. I know too many people who have too many difficulties later when they find out they want something else. By the time she was baptized she liked the name Christiana and she took that name. And he changed her name to Bogoiavlensky again. So it was very, very unpleasant and horrible, what the poor fellow didn't do.
Mr.Jenner. Did he cause you some difficulty with respect to accusing you of being a Communist?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. I don't know if you have a letter, I wish I would have a letter what he did. You see I had charge accounts throughout the country, because I was making very good money. Lord and Taylor, Saks, all the biggest restaurants everywhere. And when that happened, I actually told him that is the end, I am divorcing you, and that is it, and there will be no change back, nothing at all, he sent out letters to all of these places, to all the restaurants, all the department stores, including Niemans, and I believe Niemans showed me the letter, and there was a Golden Pheasant Restaurant—they showed me the letter—that so and so, and he expressed in a horrible way that Eugenia Fomenko Bogoiavlensky, my ex-wife, she is—almost putting that I am a spy, and God knows what in it, and that he is not responsible for my debts, for my accounts.
It was 1957, and since 1941 I was the one that made all the money in the family. I was the one making all these things, bringing up my child. So that was horrible. That is not all. He sent letters, and he signed "FBI"—make believe they are from the FBI. He sent to all my people in New York, firms that I work with, that also I am a spy or something, this and that, horrible.
And I was in Europe that summer. And a friend of mine came over and said, "What is the matter with you?" She said, "What happened to you? The FBI are looking for you."
I said, "Are you kidding me?"
She said "No;" one of the manufacturers showed her the letter.
I said, "For God sakes, this is ridiculous, I never heard of such a thing."
So when I come back to New York I right away went to see all of them.
They said, some were laughing about it. But some I know they had a little something behind their heads.
Mr.Jenner. They were worried?
Mrs.De Mohrenschildt. Yes; even a thing like that, a prank like that, already set people thinking. And do you know that I could not get a job in New York, just because of that? And, fortunately, being in Texas, I switched to designing dresses and sportswear, and I had two jobs in no time in that market.
And I was able to get—I lost my job in Texas while I was in Europe because of that.