Mr.Jenner. What did he say?
Mr.Pic. He said OK. He told me to write to him, and in this book, sir, which I had there he wrote his post office box address in Dallas.
Mr.Jenner. We will give that little book, to which you make reference, John Pic Exhibit No. 60.
(The document referred to was marked John Pic Exhibit No. 60 for identification.)
Mr.Jenner. I have John Pic Exhibit No. 60 in my hand. What is this?
Mr.Pic. A black memo book, I guess.
Mr.Jenner. Of yours?
Mr.Pic. Yes, sir; I had it in my car at the time. Whenever I travel I keep a little book with my mileage on it and so forth.
Mr.Jenner. I notice that the fist ruled page of this book on which there appear some figures, the letter "B" and then there are some handwritings which appears to be Russian. I show that to you.
Mr.Pic. Yes, sir.
Mr.Jenner. In whose handwriting is that?
Mr.Pic. That is in the handwriting of Marina Oswald, sir.
Mr.Jenner. What was the occasion of her writing in this book?
Mr.Pic. Only part of this, sir, is in the handwriting of Marina Oswald. This right here [indicating].
Mr.Jenner. That is the word beginning with the letter, it looks like the letter "N" or "M" and the word right below that beginning with the letter "D," and a word right below that beginning, it looks like a capital "H"?
Mr.Pic. That is right, sir. The other ones are in my handwriting.
Mr.Jenner. The others are all figures?
Mr.Pic. Right.
Mr.Jenner. What was the occasion of her writing that on the page?
Mr.Pic. She being a pharmacist, and me being in the medical field, we tried to communicate with each other just to make small talk with medical terminology, metric system and so forth, just some way to kill time with each other she and I seemed to be able to do this to some degree.
Mr.Jenner. That is to communicate?
Mr.Pic. Yes; as long as we stuck within the pharmacy and medical field.
Mr.Jenner. Did she know some English terms in the pharmacy, medical field?
Mr.Pic. She used Latin phrases, some of which were familiar to me.
Mr.Jenner. Just what was that writing, some medical terms?
Mr.Pic. Yes; I think these are names of drugs she was writing down. I wouldn't know.
Mr.Jenner. There is a large letter "B" on that page. How did that get on there?
Mr.Pic. I don't know, sir. I don't know, sir. I wouldn't venture a guess whose handwriting it is.
Mr.Jenner. There is a square to the left of the handwriting in Russian, what does that signify?
Mr.Pic. This was placed there by the Secret Service, in San Antonio, sir, to identify the handwritings in this book, the square being the handwriting of Marina Oswald, the parentheses being the handwriting of myself and the mark with the circle being the handwriting of Lee Harvey Oswald.
Mr.Jenner. So that wherever throughout that book a zero appears that is the handwriting of Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mr.Pic. Yes, sir.
Mr.Jenner. Wherever the parentheses mark appears that is your handwriting?
Mr.Pic. That is correct, sir.
Mr.Jenner. And wherever the square appears that is Marina's handwriting?
Mr.Pic. That is correct, sir.
Mr.Jenner. Turn the page over. On the reverse side of that page that is all your handwriting?
Mr.Pic. Except this up here, sir.
Mr.Jenner. The reverse side of the previous page.
Mr.Pic. Yes, sir; that is my handwriting.
Mr.Jenner. All right. Now, the front side of the next page which has the letter "A" printed on it, in the upper right-hand corner. Is that in your handwriting?
Mr.Pic. Everything except this top portion, sir.
Mr.Jenner. The top portion?
Mr.Pic. Starting with liquid measure would be my handwriting.
Mr.Jenner. And then there is something above that?
Mr.Pic. Yes, sir.
Mr.Jenner. Whose handwriting is that?
Mr.Pic. I believe that to be Marina Oswald's, sir.
Mr.Jenner. Everything below that is yours?
Mr.Pic. Yes, sir.
Mr.Jenner. All right. The reverse side of that page, that is the reverse side of the "A" page is in whose handwriting?
Mr.Pic. My handwriting, sir.
Mr.Jenner. Then the page opposite that?
Mr.Pic. That is in my handwriting, sir.
Mr.Jenner. The reverse side of that page is blank. Then the face of the next page is some figures and the words "Highway start, Fort Worth," and "highway" again, those are all in whose handwriting?
Mr.Pic. My handwriting, sir.
Mr.Jenner. Then the series of pages are blank, and the first writing we see thereafter is on the "C" page, some letters and a figure. Whose handwriting is that?
Mr.Pic. That is mine, sir.
Mr.Jenner. The next handwriting appears on the last ruled page. Whose handwriting is that?
Mr.Pic. That is the handwriting of my wife, sir.
Mr.Jenner. All of it?
Mr.Pic. Yes, sir; she loves to write her name.
Mr.Jenner. All right. Then on the next to the last page in the book which is a plain white page, appears P.O. Box 2195, Dallas, Tex.
Mr.Pic. That is the handwriting of Lee Harvey Oswald, sir.
Mr.Jenner. And on the opposite page, which is the inside of the backcover——
Mr.Pic. This is the identifying mark in the hand of Secret Service Agent Ben A. Vidles, in San Antonio, Tex.
Mr.Jenner. This book is in the same condition now as it was?
Mr.Pic. When I gave it to the Secret Service.
Mr.Jenner. When you gave it to the Secret Service.
Mr.Pic. Yes, sir.
Mr.Jenner. Plus the identifying marks you have described?
Mr.Pic. That is correct, sir.
Mr.Jenner. I offer in evidence a document, memorandum book now marked as "John Pic Exhibit No. 60."
(The document heretofore marked for identification as John Pic Exhibit No. 60 was received in evidence.)
Mr.Jenner. Did you thereafter prior to November 22, up to but prior to November 22, 1963, hear anything about your brother?
Mr.Pic. The day or two after they left Robert and I went fishing. While wewere in the boat there was Robert, myself, and my oldest boy, and at this time I asked him about Lee, I asked him if he considered or thought that Lee was a little on the pink side and just how he was getting along. Robert informed me that he had had seen FBI agents once in awhile who said Lee was doing pretty good and that there was nothing to worry about. And all reports that he had had were favorable towards Lee.
Mr.Jenner. Robert did tell you that the FBI had checked with him?
Mr.Pic. He had seen an agent now and then, sir.
Mr.Jenner. He didn't elaborate as to whether the FBI had come to visit him or whether he had merely run into some FBI agent?
Mr.Pic. I had the impression that they had visited him where he worked, sir.
Mr.Jenner. Did you hear anything else about your brother from that occasion up to but not including November 22, 1963?
Mr.Pic. Well, other information I gathered from my talks with Robert in those few days was that Lee and Marina made the trip to see them in Fort Worth fairly regular, to have dinner, things like this. It seems that Vada and Marina were at one time, I was told,talking——
Mr.Jenner. By whom?
Mr.Pic. hutchesonBy Vada, Marina was trying to make a point about her wedding ring being she couldn't speak English, Vada got the impression that Marina had been married before.
Mr.Jenner. That Marina had been married before?
Mr.Pic. Yes, sir; this is the only thing she could gather from Marina flashing her wedding ring and talking about this. The four of us were present, Robert, myself, and the two wives. But this was done over coffee.
Mr.Jenner. This was after Lee and Marina had left?
Mr.Pic. Yes, sir; this was after they had left.
Mr.Jenner. What did Robert say on that subject, if anything?
Mr.Pic. Nothing. That he didn't think she had been married before.
Mr.Jenner. Did you visit your brother Robert, and did he visit you subsequent to that occasion on Thanksgiving up to but not including November 22, 1963?
Mr.Pic. A couple or 3 days prior to Christmas of 1962, Robert and his family returned the visit to our home in San Antonio, sir. I asked Robert this time if he had seen or heard from Lee since we had last seen him and he told me, no.
Mr.Jenner. Was there any comment on that subject that he had not heard from Lee up to that time?
Mr.Pic. It was really only a matter of 3 or 4 weeks at the most, sir.
Mr.Jenner. So it didn't occasion any surprise on your part?
Mr.Pic. No, sir.
Mr.Jenner. Were you given any other information by Robert with respect to Lee?
Mr.Pic. No, sir; not that I recall.
Mr.Jenner. Did you see Robert again subsequent to this pre-Christmas Party 1962?
Mr.Pic. No, sir.
Mr.Jenner. And up to but not including November 22, 1963?
Mr.Pic. I still haven't seen him since Christmas 1962.
Mr.Jenner. Have you corresponded?
Mr.Pic. We have written a few letters, and I was permitted to make a phone call to him right after the assassination.
Mr.Jenner. What did he say in the course of that conversation? What did you say?
Mr.Pic. This was—I was permitted to make the phone call after Lee's murder. The Secret Service said I could contact Robert. He had called where I worked and left a number. I contacted the Secret Service. They told me go ahead and call this number, call them back and tell them the gist of the conversation.
I called him up at this number. Someone answered the phone and I asked for Robert and they called him to the phone. He told me that he and his—told me his wife and children were at the farm with her folks, I believe that is what he told me. That he was—he couldn't tell me where he was but he was in Arlington, Tex.
Mr.Jenner. Robert was?
Mr.Pic. Yes, sir; under custody of the Secret Service.
Mr.Jenner. What day of the week was this?
Mr.Pic. This was Sunday, sir.
Mr.Jenner. The day of the death of your brother?
Mr.Pic. Yes, sir.
Mr.Jenner. The 24th of November 1963?
Mr.Pic. Yes, sir.
Mr.Jenner. What else was said?
Mr.Pic. He told me that some local business people would make arrangements for the funeral and there would be no expense to him. I told him I was sorry it happened and everything.
Mr.Jenner. Did he say anything about having seen your brother at the Dallas City Police Station prior to this telephone conversation?
Mr.Pic. No, sir; he didn't.
Mr.Jenner. Was there any discussion in this telephone conversation about the assassination of President Kennedy?
Mr.Pic. No, sir; there wasn't.
Mr.Jenner. About the possible involvement of your brother in that connection?
Mr.Pic. No, sir; there wasn't.
Mr.Jenner. I take it, then, it was confined largely, if not exclusively, to the death of your brother?
Mr.Pic. The conversation was just about as I related it, sir. It was mostly confined to the death of Lee.
Mr.Jenner. And his burial?
Mr.Pic. Yes, sir.
Mr.Jenner. Did you attend the funeral services?
Mr.Pic. No, sir; I was not permitted. In fact, the Secret Service did not let me write Robert for, I think, 7 to 8 days after the assassination. At that time they granted me permission to freely correspond with him.
Mr.Jenner. And you did so?
Mr.Pic. I think we have written about two, three letters back and forth. I am the one who fails to write. He never fails to write.
Mr.Jenner. The subject matter of these letters involved Lee; any of them?
Mr.Pic. I think the very first one I got concerned the welfare of his family. They were out at the farm. That his company treated him very good about all the time lost. That Marina asked about us and how we were getting along. In my return letter to him I told him nobody had bothered us and we were getting along just fine. He informed me that he was—I suggested if they could, to come down and stay with us awhile. We had just purchased a new house, we had the room, and he wrote back and told me that because he had missed all the time because of the incidents he was unable to get any more time from his company without losing his job.
Mr.Jenner. Have you seen Marina in the meantime?
Mr.Pic. No, sir.
Mr.Jenner. The last time you saw her, I take it, then, was Thanksgiving Day 1962?
Mr.Pic. That is correct, sir.
Mr.Jenner. Has there been any correspondence between you?
Mr.Pic. No, sir.
Mr.Jenner. Has there been any correspondence that was indirect in any fashion?
Mr.Pic. My last letter I received from Robert was right after he appeared here. He mentioned that Marina often asked about my wife and I. Other than this, there has been no mention. He has mentioned about the grave being desecrated, and some information concerning the gravesite of Lee.
Mr.Jenner. Before I return to some specifics, is there anything else that has occurred to you in your reflection on this matter that you would like to mention?
Mr.Pic. The actual assassination, that time period or what, sir?
Mr.Jenner. Well, anything you think that might be relevant to the Commission's investigation as to the circumstances surrounding the assassinationof President Kennedy, any persons involved therein, the subsequent death of your brother.
Mr.Pic. Most of the information that I have seen and heard has been all new to me, like his escapades in New Orleans, passing out the leaflets and his radio program.
Mr.Jenner. Those incidents, by the way, were unknown to you until after the assassination, I take it?
Mr.Pic. Yes, sir; I assure you if I had known he was doing his escapades again I would have went to the proper authorities about it.
Mr.Jenner. I show you an exhibit, a series of exhibits, first Commission Exhibit No. 281 and Exhibit No. 282 being some spread pages of an issue of Life magazine of February 21, 1964. I direct your attention first to the lower left-hand spread at the bottom of the page. Do you recognize the area shown there?
Mr.Pic. No, sir.
Mr.Jenner. Do you see somebody in that picture that appears to be your brother?
Mr.Pic. This one here with the arrow.
Mr.Jenner. The one that has the printed arrow?
Mr.Pic. That is correct, sir.
Mr.Jenner. And you recognize that as your brother?
Mr.Pic. Because they say so, sir.
Mr.Jenner. Please, I don't want you tosay——
Mr.Pic. No; I couldn't recognize that.
Mr.Jenner. Because this magazine says that it is.
Mr.Pic. No, sir; I couldn't recognize him from that picture.
Mr.Jenner. You don't recognize anybody else in the picture after studying it that appears to be your brother? When I say your brother now, I am talking about Lee.
Mr.Pic. No, sir.
Mr.Jenner. In the upper portion there are a series of photographs spread from left-hand page across to the right-hand page. Take those on the left which appears to be a photograph of three young men. Do you recognize the persons shown in that photograph?
Mr.Pic. Yes; I recognize this photograph, the people from left to right being Robert Oswald, the center one being Lee Oswald, and the third one being myself. This picture was taken at the house in Dallas when we returned from New Orleans.
Mr.Jenner. You mean from—when you came from New Orleans after being at the Bethlehem Orphanage Home?
Mr.Pic. Yes, sir.
Mr.Jenner. And you went to Dallas?
Mr.Pic. Yes, sir.
Mr.Jenner. It was taken in Dallas at or about that time?
Mr.Pic. Yes, sir.
Mr.Jenner. The next one is prominent; in front is a picture of a young boy. There is a partially shown girl and apparently another boy with a striped shirt in the background. Do you recognize that picture?
Mr.Pic. Yes; I recognize that as Lee Harvey Oswald.
Mr.Jenner. Do you have any impression as to when and where that was taken?
Mr.Pic. Just looking at the picture, I would guess first, second grade, maybe. I would have to guess at it.
Mr.Jenner. Then there is one immediately to the right of that, a young man in the foreground sitting on the floor, with his knees, legs crossed, and his arms also crossed. There are some other people apparently in the background.
Mr.Pic. I recognize that as Lee Harvey Oswald.
Mr.Jenner. Does anything about the picture enable you to identify as to where that was taken?
Mr.Pic. No, sir.
Mr.Jenner. Then to the right there is a picture of two young men, the upper portion of the—one young man at the bottom and then apparently a young manstanding up in back of that person. Do you recognize either of those young people?
Mr.Pic. Yes; I recognize Lee Harvey Oswald.
Mr.Jenner. Is he the one to which the black arrow is pointing?
Mr.Pic. Yes, sir.
Mr.Jenner. Then right below that is a picture of a young man standing in front of an iron fence, which appears to be probably at a zoo. Do you recognize that?
Mr.Pic. Sir, from that picture, I could not recognize that that is Lee Harvey Oswald.
Mr.Jenner. That young fellow is shown there, he doesn't look like you recall Lee looked in 1952 and 1953 when you saw him in New York City?
Mr.Pic. No, sir.
Mr.Jenner. Commission Exhibit No. 284—do you recognize anybody in that picture that appears to be Lee Oswald?
Mr.Pic. No, sir.
Mr.Jenner. There is a young fellow in the foreground—everybody else is facing the other way. He is in a pantomime, or grimace. Do you recognize that as Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mr.Pic. No, sir; looking at that picture—and I have looked at it several times—that looks more like Robert than it does Lee, to my recollection.
Mr.Jenner. All right. On Exhibit No. 286, the lower right-hand corner, there is another picture. Do you recognize that as your brother Lee in that picture?
Mr.Pic. Yes, sir; that is about how he looked when I seen him in 1962, his profile.
Mr.Jenner. Do you recognize the person, the lady to the right who is pointing her finger at him?
Mr.Pic. No, sir; I don't.
Mr.Jenner. Exhibit No. 287 is two figures, taking them from top to bottom and in the lower right-hand corner, do you recognize those?
Mr.Pic. No, sir; I don't.
Mr.Jenner. Neither one of them?
Mr.Pic. No, sir. The lower one appears to me to look like Robert rather than Lee. The upper one, unless they tell me that, I would never guess that that would be Lee, sir.
Mr.Jenner. All right. Exhibit No. 288, there is in the lower left-hand corner, there is a reproduction of a service card and a reproduction, also, of a photograph with the head of a man. Do you recognize that?
Mr.Pic. That looks to me approximately how Lee Oswald looked when I seen him Thanksgiving 1962.
Mr.Jenner. Directing your attention to Exhibit, Commission Exhibit No. 289, do you recognize any of the servicemen shown in that picture as your brother Lee?
Mr.Pic. No, sir; I do not recognize them.
Mr.Jenner. Exhibit No. 290, the lower left-hand corner there is a photograph of a young lady and a young man. Do you recognize either of those persons?
Mr.Pic. He appears to me as Lee Harvey Oswald in 1962 when I seen him.
Mr.Jenner. And the lady?
Mr.Pic. She is his wife, Marina, sir.
Mr.Jenner. Commission Exhibit No. 291, at the bottom of the page, there is a picture of a young man handing out a leaflet, and another man to the left of him who is reaching out for it. Do you recognize the young man handing out the leaflet?
Mr.Pic. No, sir; I would be unable to recognize him.
Mr.Jenner. As to whether he was your brother?
Mr.Pic. That is correct.
Mr.Jenner. Exhibit No. 292, in the upper right-hand corner, is a picture of a lady, a young lady with a child. Do you recognize either of those persons?
Mr.Pic. Yes; I recognize Marina Oswald.
Mr.Jenner. And the baby?
Mr.Pic. No, sir; I couldn't recognize the baby.
Mr.Jenner. Below that is a picture purporting to be that of your brother witha pistol on his right hip, and with a firearm, a rifle in his left hand holding up what appear to be some leaflets. Do you recognize that as your brother Lee?
Mr.Pic. That is how he looked to me in 1962 when I seen him, sir.
Mr.Jenner. That is a duplicate of the picture on the cover. You have produced for us a series of letters from your mother to yourself, from your brother Lee to yourself, and from your brother Robert to yourself which have been marked John Pic Exhibits Nos. 6 through 47, inclusive.
Did you assist Mr. Ely, in the preparation of this list of exhibits?
Mr.Pic. No, sir; I arranged the stacks. He took it from the stacks I arranged previously.
Mr.Jenner. For the purpose of the record, then, John Pic Exhibit No. 6 is a letter from Marguerite Oswald to John Pic, postmarked May 8, 1950, and its accompanying envelope as John Pic Exhibit No. 6-A. John Pic Exhibit No. 7 is a letter from your mother to you, postmarked May 23, 1950, or the envelope is so postmarked. Its accompanying envelope being marked John Pic Exhibit No. 7-A. John Pic Exhibit No. 8, a letter from Marguerite Oswald to John Pic enclosed in envelope, Exhibit No. 8-A, postmarked at Fort Worth, May 24, 1950.
By the way, Exhibit No. 6-A is postmarked Fort Worth. All of these exhibits until I indicate otherwise from here on are marked with a return address to M. Oswald, 9048 Ewing, Fort Worth, Tex.
Mr.Pic. 7408.
Mr.Jenner. What did I say? 7408; that is correct. You are right.
Exhibit No. 9 is a letter from Marguerite Oswald to John Pic, accompanying envelope is Exhibit No. 9-A postmarked June 9, 1950.
Exhibit No. 10 and its reverse side, which is marked Exhibit No. 10-B, is a letter from Lee Harvey Oswald to John Pic enclosed in envelope marked John Pic Exhibit No. 10-A, postmarked at Fort Worth, Tex., on August 23, 1950. This envelope has no return address on it.
Exhibit No. 11 is a letter from Marguerite Oswald to John Pic in an envelope postmarked August 15, 1950, marked Exhibit No. 11-A.
Exhibit No. 12 is a letter from Marguerite to John Pic enclosed in envelope postmarked November 6, 1950, and identified as John Pic Exhibit No. 12-A.
The next is John Pic Exhibit No. 13, a letter from Marguerite Oswald to John Pic enclosed in envelope postmarked December 13, 1950, the envelope being marked John Pic Exhibit No. 13-A. This does have the return address Lee Oswald, 7408 Ewing, Fort Worth, Tex.
The next is a short longhand note on a small sheet marked John Pic Exhibit No. 14 which is undated, Lee Harvey Oswald to John Pic, which was enclosed with Exhibit No. 13.
The next is a card, Christmas card, marked John Pic Exhibit No. 15, inside cover of which in longhand says, "Dear Pic," and then there is in longhand and pencil "I sure am sorry that you can't come home for Christmas so I am sending you this fruitcake. Merry Christmas"—spelled Mary—"from Lee."
The next is John Pic No. 16, a letter from Marguerite Oswald to John Pic enclosed in envelope marked Pic Exhibit No. 16-A and postmarked in Fort Worth, April 16, 1951, with the usual return address.
Exhibit No. 17 is a letter from Marguerite Oswald to John Pic enclosed in envelope postmarked at Fort Worth on April 23, 1951. That envelope is marked John Pic Exhibit No. 17-A. The previous envelope in which Exhibit No. 16 was enclosed was marked Exhibit No. 16-A. I will say for the record in each instance where there is a letter accompanied by an envelope, the envelope is marked with a letter "A" but with the same number as the letter.
Exhibit No. 18 is a letter from Marguerite Oswald to John Pic enclosed in an envelope marked Exhibit No. 18-A, postmarked at Fort Worth, May 22, 1951.
The next is Exhibit No. 19, a letter from Marguerite Oswald to John Pic enclosed in an envelope marked Exhibit No. 19-A, postmarked at Fort Worth on June 18, 1951.
Exhibit No. 20 is a letter from Marguerite Oswald to John Pic and Exhibit No. 20-B is a birthday card from Marguerite. Both are enclosed in an envelope marked John Pic Exhibit No. 20-A, postmarked at Fort Worth, Tex., June 14, 1952, bearing the usual return address.
Exhibit No. 21 is a letter from Marguerite Oswald to John Pic enclosed in an envelope marked Pic Exhibit No. 21-A, postmarked Fort Worth, July 14, 1952, with the usual return address.
The next is a letter without an envelope which is marked John Pic Exhibit No. 22. The letter is dated May 10, 1954.
The Exhibit No. 23 is a letter from Marguerite Oswald to John Pic enclosed is an envelope, Exhibit No. 23-A, postmarked in New Orleans on June 14, 1954, containing the return address, M. Oswald, 1454 St. Mary, New Orleans, La.
The next is Exhibit No. 24; it is a letter from Marguerite Oswald to John Pic enclosed in an envelope postmarked at New Orleans, October 14, 1954, which in turn is marked John Pic Exhibit No. 24-A. It contains the return address, M. Oswald, 126 Exchange, New Orleans, La. If I neglected to do so, Exhibit No. 22 is the letter from Marguerite Oswald to John Pic.
Exhibit No. 25 also is a letter from Marguerite Oswald to John Pic enclosed in an envelope marked Exhibit No. 25-A, postmarked at New Orleans, La., on November 12, 1954, containing return address, M. Oswald, 126 Exchange, New Orleans, La.
Exhibit No. 26 is a letter from Marguerite Oswald to John Pic enclosed in an envelope marked Exhibit No. 26-A, postmarked at New Orleans, La., on November 11, 1954, return address, Mrs. M. Oswald, 126 Exchange, New Orleans, La. Mr. Pic, are Exhibits Nos. 6 and 6-A, 7 and 7-A, 8 and 8-A, 9 and 9-A, 10 and 10-A, 11 and 11-A—excuse me, strike out that 10 and 10-A—11 and 11-A, 12 and 12-A, 16 and 16-A, 17 and 17-A, 18 and 18-A, 19 and 19-A, 20 and 20-A, 21 and 21-A, 22, 23 and 23-A, 24 and 24-A, 25 and 25-A, 26 and 26-A, all in the handwriting of your mother Marguerite Oswald?
Mr.Pic. Yes, sir.
Mr.Jenner. And were those envelopes addressed to you at various places you were then, that is as of the time they were postmarked received by you at or about the postmarked dates or shortly thereafter which each envelope bears?
Mr.Pic. Yes, sir.
Mr.Jenner. There is one exhibit that doesn't have an envelope. Was that letter received by you shortly after the date it bears?
Mr.Pic. You refer to Exhibit No. 22, sir?
Mr.Jenner. Yes, sir.
Mr.Pic. To the best of my knowledge; yes, sir.
Mr.Jenner. These are all, they all consist of correspondence from your mother to you?
Mr.Pic. Yes, sir.
Mr.Jenner. And they happen to be correspondence which you have retained over the years?
Mr.Pic. Yes, sir.
Mr.Jenner. Except for the exhibit marks on those, they are in the same condition now as they were at the time you received them and opened them in the case of the envelopes?
Mr.Pic. Yes, sir.
Mr.Jenner. And that the letters are in the condition they were at the time you read them?
Mr.Pic. Yes, sir.
Mr.Jenner. Go back to Pic Exhibit No. 10, in whose handwriting is that exhibit?
Mr.Pic. Exhibit No. 10, sir, is in the handwriting of—there is Exhibits Nos. 10, 10-A, and 10-B.
Mr.Jenner. Exhibit No. 10, I am referring to.
Mr.Pic. They are both in the handwriting of Lee Harvey Oswald.
Mr.Jenner. Exhibits Nos. 10 and 10-A; correct?
Mr.Pic. No, sir; Exhibits Nos. 10, 10-A, and 10-B. Exhibit No. 10 is the insert in envelope Exhibit No. 10-A.
Mr.Jenner. Then look at Exhibits Nos. 13 and 13-A.
Mr.Pic. They are marked Exhibits Nos. 13 and 13-A, sir.
Mr.Jenner. All right. The contents are marked Exhibit No. 13.
Mr.Pic. Yes, sir.
Mr.Jenner. In whose handwriting is the envelope?
Mr.Pic. Lee Harvey Oswald's.
Mr.Jenner. And whose handwriting is that which appears in the inside of that card?
Mr.Pic. My mother's, sir.
Mr.Jenner. Is there any handwriting of Lee Harvey Oswald on that card?
Mr.Pic. No, sir.
Mr.Jenner. The card was enclosed, was it in the exhibit marked John Pic No. 13-A?
Mr.Pic. Yes, sir.
Mr.Jenner. Turn to Exhibit No. 14. That is a note you received from your brother?
Mr.Pic. Yes, sir.
Mr.Jenner. Is that in his handwriting?
Mr.Pic. Yes, sir.
Mr.Jenner. It is undated.
Mr.Pic. Yes, sir.
Mr.Jenner. Do you have the envelope in which that was enclosed?
Mr.Pic. Sir, it may be Exhibit No. 13-A, I don't know.
Mr.Jenner. It may have been enclosed in Exhibit No. 13-A?
Mr.Pic. It may have been enclosed in Exhibit No. 10-A, I don't know, sir.
Mr.Jenner. In any event, it is in the handwriting of your brother?
Mr.Pic. Yes, sir.
Mr.Jenner. And you received it in due course some time?
Mr.Pic. Yes, sir.
Mr.Jenner. On or about the holidayperiod——
Mr.Pic. I would guess that Exhibit No. 15 goes in envelope Exhibit No. 13-A.
Mr.Jenner. All right. Would you put them in there?
Mr.Pic. And the date on envelope Exhibit No. 13-A is 13 December, and this is a Christmas card from Lee, sir.
Mr.Jenner. That Christmas card on the inside is the handwriting of your mother, however?
Mr.Pic. No, sir. Lee Harvey Oswald.
Mr.Jenner. All right. Now, the exhibit marked John Pic No. 14, do you have a recollection as to the envelope in which that was enclosed?
Mr.Pic. No, sir.
Mr.Jenner. Do you have a recollection as to approximately when you received it, that is John Pic Exhibit No. 14?
Mr.Pic. I would speculate and say that Exhibit No. 10 goes in envelope Exhibit No. 10-A, and that Exhibit No. 14 either came some little period of time before or after the contents in envelope Exhibit No. 10-A.
Mr.Jenner. That is while you were away at military school?
Mr.Pic. No, sir; this is when I am in the Coast Guard.
Mr.Jenner. All right. All those exhibits I have now identified, that is after I identified your mother's letters, are in the handwriting of Lee Oswald?
Mr.Pic. All except Exhibit No. 13, sir.
Mr.Jenner. And Exhibit No. 13 is in the handwriting of your mother?
Mr.Pic. That is correct, sir.
Mr.Jenner. It appears to be and is a Christmas card?
Mr.Pic. Yes, sir.
Mr.Jenner. From its contents are you able to tell us approximately when you received that?
Mr.Pic. It would be, I would say sometime after Christmas of 1950, sir.
Mr.Jenner. All right. Would you put all those exhibits back in order?
Mr.Pic. What belongs with what I think.
Mr.Jenner. Yes.
Mr.Pic. Exhibits Nos. 13-A and 15 here, sir.
Mr.Jenner. You have already told us of Exhibits No. 13-A belonging with Exhibit No. 15. You have also produced for us correspondence that you happen still to have in your possession from your brother Robert Oswald, have you not?
Mr.Pic. Yes, sir.
Mr.Jenner. I place that correspondence before you and ask you to follow meas I place the exhibit numbers in the record. Exhibit No. 27 is a letter from Robert to you.
Mr.Pic. They are marked all with "B's."
Mr.Jenner. Exhibit No. 27-B is a letter from your brother Robert to you enclosed in an envelope marked Exhibit No. 27-A, postmarked October 1, 1952?
Mr.Pic. That is correct, sir.
Mr.Jenner. From where?
Mr.Pic. U.S. Navy 14016, sir. Unit 1.
Mr.Jenner. And to you at?
Mr.Pic. At 325 East 92d Street, New York City, sir.
Mr.Jenner. Exhibit No. 28-B is the contents of Exhibit No. 28-A, the contents consisting of a letter from your brother Robert to you, the envelope is postmarked June 9, 1954.
Mr.Pic. That is correct, sir.
Mr.Jenner. And it is addressed to you where?
Mr.Pic. U.S. Coast Guard Station, Staten Island, N.Y.
Mr.Jenner. All right. Exhibit No. 29-B is the contents of the envelope marked Exhibit No. 29-A, the contents consisting of a letter from your brother Robert to you, and the envelope being postmarked June 19, 1954.
Mr.Pic. Plus a picture.
Mr.Jenner. There is also enclosed in that envelope a picture?
Mr.Pic. That is right, sir.
Mr.Jenner. Which ismarked——
Mr.Pic. Exhibit No. 29-C.
Mr.Jenner. Exhibit No. 29-C. The picture is a picture of whom?
Mr.Pic. Two what appear to be Marines, sir; the one on the left being Robert Oswald.
Mr.Jenner. May I see it, please, sir? Do you know the other Marine?
Mr.Pic. No, sir; I do not.
Mr.Jenner. Exhibit No. 30-A is an envelope postmarked December 13, 1954, its contents being a letter marked Exhibit No. 30-B, being a letter from your brother Robert to you.
Mr.Pic. Being a Christmas card, sir; with a letter written on the Christmas card.
Mr.Jenner. On the inside?
Mr.Pic. Yes, sir.
Mr.Jenner. And some inscription, also, under the Christmas greetings?
Mr.Pic. Yes, sir.
Mr.Jenner. Now, are those exhibits all in the handwriting, except for the photograph, of course, in the handwriting of your brother Robert?
Mr.Pic. Yes, sir; to my best of my knowledge.
Mr.Jenner. Did you receive those exhibits, the envelopes, and the contents in due course after they were posted?
Mr.Pic. Yes, sir.
Mr.Jenner. And you have retained them in your possession since that time?
Mr.Pic. Yes, sir.
Mr.Jenner. All right. Have you also produced for us some additional correspondence between your mother and yourself?
Mr.Pic. Yes, sir.
Mr.Jenner. Being exclusively letters from her to you?
Mr.Pic. Yes, sir.
Mr.Jenner. They being in the following series: Exhibit No. 31-A, an envelope addressed to you postmarked June 3,1950——
Mr.Pic. Fort Worth, Tex.
Mr.Jenner. Fort Worth, Tex. What is the return address?
Mr.Pic. M. Oswald, 7408 Ewing, Fort Worth, Tex.
Mr.Jenner. And the contents consisting of a letter from your mother to you?
Mr.Pic. That is correct, sir.
Mr.Jenner. And that is marked Exhibit No. 31-B?
Mr.Pic. Yes.
Mr.Jenner. The next envelope and letter, the envelope is marked Exhibit No. 32-A. Is it postmarked?
Mr.Pic. Partial postmark, sir.
Mr.Jenner. How much of it can you read?
Mr.Pic. Texas 1950, sir.
Mr.Jenner. Its contents marked?
Mr.Pic. Exhibit No. 32-B, sir.
Mr.Jenner. That is a letter from your mother to you?
Mr.Pic. Yes, sir.
Mr.Jenner. Enclosed with the envelope we have identified?
Mr.Pic. Yes, sir.
Mr.Jenner. The next exhibit is what?
Mr.Pic. Exhibit No. 33-A, sir.
Mr.Jenner. Postmarked?
Mr.Pic. Fort Worth, August 23, 1950.
Mr.Jenner. What return address?
Mr.Pic. M. Oswald, 7408 Ewing, Fort Worth, Tex.
Mr.Jenner. The contents have been marked?
Mr.Pic. Exhibit No. 33-B, sir.
Mr.Jenner. The letter from your mother to you?
Mr.Pic. Yes, sir.
Mr.Jenner. Enclosed in that envelope?
Mr.Pic. Yes, sir.
Mr.Jenner. The next exhibit?
Mr.Pic. Is just a letter dated Exhibit No. 34.
Mr.Pic. Is just a letter marked Exhibit No. 34.
Mr.Pic. Yes, sir.
Mr.Jenner. Is it dated?
Mr.Pic. The only mention is the word Saturday, sir.
Mr.Jenner. It is undated?
Mr.Pic. Yes, sir.
Mr.Jenner. It is in the handwriting of your mother?
Mr.Pic. Yes, sir.
Mr.Jenner. You received it in due course?
Mr.Pic. Yes, sir.
Mr.Jenner. Some time or other?
Mr.Pic. Yes, sir.
Mr.Jenner. But you did not retain the envelope?
Mr.Pic. No, sir.
Mr.Jenner. Can you tell from its content approximately when you received it? Was it after you entered the Coast Guard?
Mr.Pic. Yes, sir; definitely after I entered the Coast Guard, in fact it mentions the Korean war, so it was after the onset of the Korean war.
Mr.Jenner. Was it received subsequently to the letter and envelope, the envelope being postmarked August 23, 1950, being the previous exhibit?
Mr.Pic. I wouldn't know, sir.
Mr.Jenner. All right. The next exhibit.
Mr.Pic. Envelope Exhibit No. 35-A, sir, postmarked Fort Worth, Tex.; return address, M. Oswald, 7408 Ewing, Fort Worth, Tex.
Mr.Jenner. What is the postmark date?
Mr.Pic. September 22, 1950.
Mr.Jenner. Contents marked?
Mr.Pic. Exhibit No. 35-B, sir.
Mr.Jenner. Being a letter from your mother to you?
Mr.Pic. That is correct, sir.
Mr.Jenner. The next exhibit?
Mr.Pic. Exhibit No. 36-A bearing the postmark 27 September 1950, return address, M. Oswald, 7408 Ewing Street, Fort Worth, Tex.
Mr.Jenner. And postmarked at Fort Worth?
Mr.Pic. Yes, sir; postmarked at Fort Worth.
Mr.Jenner. Its contents marked—what is the exhibit number on the contents?
Mr.Pic. Exhibit No. 36-B, sir.
Mr.Jenner. Then the next exhibit?
Mr.Pic. The next Exhibit No. 37-A, postmarked Fort Worth, Tex., December 28, 1950, no return address.
Mr.Jenner. The contents?
Mr.Pic. Christmas card marked Exhibit No. 37-B with a short note.
Mr.Jenner. In the handwriting of your mother?
Mr.Pic. Yes, sir.
Mr.Jenner. All right. Next exhibit?
Mr.Pic. Envelope Exhibit No. 38-A, postmarked Fort Worth, Tex., January 19, 1951, return address, M. Oswald, 7408 Ewing, Fort Worth, Tex. Contents of envelope marked Exhibit No. 38-B containing a letter from my mother to myself.
Mr.Jenner. All right. Next exhibit?
Mr.Pic. Envelope Exhibit No. 39-A postmarked Fort Worth Tex., April 6, 1951. The only thing made out on the return address is "M.O. 7408 Fort Worth, Texas."
Mr.Jenner. Contents?
Mr.Pic. Contents Exhibit No. 39-B, a letter from my mother to myself, sir.
Mr.Jenner. Next exhibit?
Mr.Pic. Envelope marked Exhibit No. 40-A, postmarked Fort Worth, Tex., May 2, 1951, return address, M. Oswald, 7408 Ewing, contents Exhibit No. 40-B letter from my mother to myself, sir.
Mr.Jenner. The next exhibit?
Mr.Pic. Envelope marked Exhibit No. 41-A postmarked Fort Worth, Tex., 7 May 1951, return address 7408, Mrs. M. Oswald, 7408 Ewing, Fort Worth, Tex., contents letter marked Exhibit No. 41-B, a letter from my mother to myself, sir.
Mr.Jenner. Next exhibit?
Mr.Pic. A letter, envelope marked Exhibit No. 42-A postmarked Fort Worth, Tex., June 4, 1951, return address M. Oswald 7408 Ewing, Fort Worth, Tex., contents marked Exhibit No. 42-B, letter from my mother to myself, sir.
Mr.Jenner. Next exhibit?
Mr.Pic. Envelope marked Exhibit No. 43-A, postmarked Fort Worth, Tex., June 13, 1951, return address M. Oswald 7408 Ewing, Fort Worth, Tex., contents marked Exhibit No. 43-B, a letter from my mother to myself, sir.
Mr.Jenner. Next exhibit?
Mr.Pic. Envelope marked Exhibit No. 44-A postmarked Fort Worth, Tex., July 13, 1951, return address M. Oswald, 7408 Ewing, Fort Worth, Tex., contents marked Exhibit No. 44-B, a letter from my mother to myself, sir.
Mr.Jenner. Next exhibit?
Mr.Pic. An envelope marked Exhibit No. 45-A, postmarked Fort Worth, Tex., February 8, 1952, return address M. Oswald 7408 Ewing, Fort Worth, Tex. Contents Exhibit No. 45-B, a letter from my mother to myself, sir.
Mr.Jenner. Next exhibit?
Mr.Pic. Envelope marked Exhibit No. 46-A, postmarked Fort Worth, Tex., May 8, 1952, M. Oswald, 7408 Ewing, Fort Worth, Tex., contents marked Exhibit No. 46-B, letter from my mother to myself.
Mr.Jenner. The last of the series?
Mr.Pic. An envelope marked Exhibit No. 47-A, postmarked Fort Worth, Tex., dated 5th of March 1952, return address M. Oswald 7408 Ewing, Fort Worth, Tex. Contents marked Exhibit No. 47-A also. The letter from my mother to myself.
Mr.Jenner. OK, that is a mistake then. We will change that marking to Exhibit No. 47-B, which I am now doing.
The letters that have been identified with Exhibit No. 31-A and concluding with Exhibit No. 47-B, are all in the handwriting of your mother, are they not?
Mr.Pic. That is correct, sir.
Mr.Jenner. And it is correspondence which you received in due course on or about the dates or shortly after the dates that the various envelopes were postmarked?
Mr.Pic. That is correct, sir.
Mr.Jenner. And you have retained them in your possession in the entire time?
Mr.Pic. That is correct, sir.
Mr.Jenner. There is an exhibit still before you marked John Pic ExhibitNo.——
Mr.Pic. Exhibit No. 59.
Mr.Jenner. What is that?
Mr.Pic. This appears to be a "shot" record of Lee Harvey Oswald written in an unknown hand, which gives him a smallpox date of August 7, 1951.
Mr.Jenner. How did that come into your possession?
Mr.Pic. It was just laying in the box with all this other stuff, sir.
Mr.Jenner. I offer those exhibits now commencing with Exhibit No. 31-A to and including Exhibits Nos. 47-B, plus 59, in evidence.
(The documents referred to were marked John Pic Exhibits Nos. 31-A to 47-B, inclusive, and Exhibit No. 59 for identification and received in evidence.)
Mr.Jenner. Mr. Pic, we have made copies of all those exhibits and we appreciate your bringing the originals, and you may take the originals back with you to San Antonio. Those exhibits consisting of the photographs of your brother which you brought, we will have duplicated and returned to you in due course.
Mr.Pic. All right.
Mr.Jenner. Direct your attention, if you will, to Exhibit No. 9-A, an envelope and its contents, Exhibit No. 9, this being a letter from Fort Worth, June 9, 1950, to you at Brooklyn, N.Y.
There is an inside page reading, "Mother called in on and told some of my problems." Do you find that?
Mr.Pic. Yes, sir.
Mr.Jenner. Uncle Dutz wired $75. That is your uncle Charles Murret?
Mr.Pic. Yes, sir.
Mr.Jenner. And then it reads, "And Lee was invited to spend a couple of weeks, so I sent him on the train by himself. To what is your mother referring in connection with her problems and the wiring of the $75 by your uncle?
Mr.Pic. It appears to me, sir, that at this time period she was between jobs. Further down she states she is starting on a new job Monday.
Mr.Jenner. Does she refer to that job on the page that is numbered 3, I believe, as McDonald Kitchens is the name?
Mr.Pic. She first refers to it on the one where it begins, "Mother called in on".
Mr.Jenner. Now, the mother there mentioned is your mother, isn't it?
Mr.Pic. Yes, sir.
Mr.Jenner. Then there is a page numbered 3?
Mr.Pic. That is right, sir.
Mr.Jenner. Which referred to McDonald's Kitchens as the name and what they do is cook food for commercial use?
Mr.Pic. Yes, sir.
Mr.Jenner. "I will drive a station wagon and deliver the food, also."
Mr.Pic. Yes, sir.
Mr.Jenner. Is that a job she was about to obtain?
Mr.Pic. I can only assume from the letter, sir; I have no other knowledge of that.
Mr.Jenner. She makes a reference on that page "Haven't sold the house as yet but have a good prospect." Calling your attention to the date, June 9, 1950, what house was that?
Mr.Pic. I am sure this refers to the little house in Benbrook, sir.
Mr.Jenner. It refers to people called DeLogans. Who are they?
Mr.Pic. I assume these people were renting the house from her, I don't remember them.
Mr.Jenner. That was a duplex of some kind?
Mr.Pic. No, sir; that was this little L-shaped house.
Mr.Jenner. In all this correspondence, Sergeant, by and large your mother very frequently, if not all the time, refers to her straitened circumstances, need for funds, and references to you having sent money. In your testimony you have referred to conversations with her on the subject and she raised the subject to you. Was that something that was pretty constantly in her mind all the time?
Mr.Pic. Yes, sir; it was.
Mr.Jenner. Did she talk about that subject at times when you were of theopinion that she was not as straitened as she appears to report in these letters?
Mr.Pic. Will you repeat that, please, sir?
Mr.Jenner. Would you read it, please, Mr. Reporter.
(The question, as recorded, was read by the reporter.)
Mr.Pic. I am sorry, sir; I don't understand your question.
Mr.Jenner. Were you of the opinion from time to time that on these occasions when she talked about what appears to be that she was in extremis with respect to finances when in fact she was not, she was overstating this condition or status?
Mr.Pic. Yes; I believe she overstated it most of the time.
Mr.Jenner. Because there were purchases of houses, at least on the installment plan, and she seemed to have capital to do that, did she not?
Mr.Pic. Yes, sir; she could always buy and sell a house some way or other.
Mr.Jenner. What was your impression as to why she was doing this; to impress you boys or was that just her fixation or personality trait?
Mr.Pic. It is my impression that she did it in order to make a profit on every deal she got involved with.
Mr.Jenner. I am not thinking of a house sale as such. But that question was more directed to her talking about her financial circumstances.
Was she attempting to impress you boys that she was working herself to the bone to support you and you should be more grateful than you appeared to be, and that sort of thing?
Mr.Pic. That is practically verbatim, sir.
Mr.Jenner. Please; you say that is practically verbatim, you mean you have uttered what was in her mind?
Mr.Pic. No; just about what she says. She said at those times.
Mr.Jenner. Were you under the impression that she was overstating in that respect?
Mr.Pic. Yes, sir.
Mr.Jenner. Was that likewise the feeling of your brother Robert?
Mr.Pic. Yes, I am sure it was.
Mr.Jenner. What was your impression as to whether your mother was always sincere and straightforward with respect to that subject matter?
Mr.Pic. My opinion, sir; at the time was all she cared about was getting hold of and making some money in some form or another. This is her god, so to speak, was to get money. And to get as much out of me as she could and as much out of Robert as she could.
Mr.Jenner. And as much out of anybody else as she could?
Mr.Pic. Yes, sir.
Mr.Jenner. Was there any—you talk about the difficulties with Mr. Ekdahl. Do you recall any discussions between them with respect to any dissatisfaction on your mother's part with funds that were given her by Mr. Ekdahl?
Mr.Pic. Yes, sir; she always wanted more money out of him. That was the basis of all the arguments.
Mr.Jenner. And was she complaining to him that he didn't give her enough money?