TESTIMONY OF ERIC ROGERS

The testimony of Eric Rogers was taken on July 21, 1964, at the Old Civil Courts Building, Royal and Conti Streets, New Orleans, La., by Mr. Wesley J. Liebeler, assistant counsel of the President's Commission.

Eric Rogers, having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:

Mr.Liebeler. Mr. Rogers, I am an attorney on the staff of the President's Commission. I think I met you one day.

Mr.Rogers. I remember you; yes, sir.

Mr.Liebeler. I wanted to ask you a few questions about Oswald. I am questioning you under authority granted to me by the Commission under Executive Order No. 11130, dated November 29, 1963, and joint resolution of Congress, No. 137.

You are entitled to have an attorney if you want to and you don't have to answer any questions if you feel that they are incriminating.

Mr.Rogers. Well, I can't answer what I don't know. I will tell you just what I told them, you see. That's all I saw.

Mr.Liebeler. Mr. Rogers, am I correct in understanding that you lived at 4907 Magazine Street during the period last summerwhen——

Mr.Rogers. I did; a few months.

Mr.Liebeler. When did you move there?

Mr.Rogers. It was around in the—in July, around July.

Mr.Liebeler. Was Oswald there?

Mr.Rogers. He was there for a short period of time.

Mr.Liebeler. You lived right next door to Oswald?

Mr.Rogers. My apartment was in the front and my window was right next—near his apartment.

Mr.Liebeler. You met Oswald and came to know him? Did you ever meet him?

Mr.Rogers. No; I never met him. He didn't bid the time to anyone.

Mr.Liebeler. Did you talk to him or anything?

Mr.Rogers. No; never did.

Mr.Liebeler. Did you know what his name was?

Mr.Rogers. Just by mail coming in the box on the front.

Mr.Liebeler. Did you ever talk to his wife?

Mr.Rogers. She spoke Russian. She did bid the time of day, that's all, but he didn't. He wouldn't bid the time to no one.

Mr.Liebeler. Did they ever have any arguments that you know of?

Mr.Rogers. Some spats, but in Russian, looked like. You know what I mean?

Mr.Liebeler. They spoke Russian and you couldn't understand what they were saying?

Mr.Rogers. Yes, sir.

Mr.Liebeler. Did you ever see Oswald have any visitors at his apartment?

Mr.Rogers. He had no one. Had some kind of a dark fellow asked where he lived.

Mr.Liebeler. Did he appear to be a Cuban?

Mr.Rogers. Yes; Spanish type of person.

Mr.Liebeler. Was that in August, do you remember?

Mr.Rogers. Around that time. I believe it was around that time.

Mr.Liebeler. Now do you remember anybody else that visited Oswald at his apartment?

Mr.Rogers. Probably at the time they had this—you know—Fair Play for Cuba, something like that. I think they were radio interviewers, I think. Looked like local people. Didn't look like—heard him saying something about wanting to play on radio. That's all.

Mr.Liebeler. You don't remember any other ones?

Mr.Rogers. Not that I know of unless I was at work. I wasn't there all the time.

Mr.Liebeler. Your wife was in the hospital part of this time, is that correct?

Mr.Rogers. That's right.

Mr.Liebeler. Did you work at that time, sir?

Mr.Rogers. No; I wasn't working at that time. See, Mr. Liebeler, I am on pension, you see. I am only allowed to make so much a year because of the pension, you see.

Mr.Liebeler. I see. Did you ever see Oswald sitting on the front porch?

Mr.Rogers. Oh, yes; with books, reading.

Mr.Liebeler. Did he read a lot?

Mr.Rogers. Yes.

Mr.Liebeler. Did you ever see any rifle or firearms of any type in his possession at that time?

Mr.Rogers. No; I never. We did see one time some—the mailman brought a big package in. I wouldn't say what it was, of course. I guess they checked that through the mail.

Mr.Liebeler. When was that?

Mr.Rogers. It was in the summer, some time before he left, somewhere around that time.

Mr.Liebeler. Oswald's apartment had a little porch in the front?

Mr.Rogers. Screened porch.

Mr.Liebeler. It had blinds in it, too, that you could let down, did it not?

Mr.Rogers. Yes.

Mr.Liebeler. So it would have been possible for him to have sat in that porch and you couldn't see him very well from the street?

Mr.Rogers. He wouldn't discuss anything on the porch. He would go in the house.

Mr.Liebeler. Would it have been possible to sit in that porch and drop the blinds so that people couldn't see you?

Mr.Rogers. It could be possible. I don't know. I never—I seen him sitting down there and go in and out, coming in and out.

Mr.Liebeler. We talked to you previously out at the apartment, and my recollection is that you told us that some time in September, I believe, that a station wagon came and picked up Mrs. Oswald.

Mr.Rogers. That was the time he left town.

Mr.Liebeler. Tell us about that.

Mr.Rogers. The station wagon was visible. I called my wife. I said "Well, he must be leaving." They were packing all the things. Probably left the next night or sometime like I told you, the following night after. Had the two things in his hand and goggles on like he was running out of there. I don't know what he was doing.

Mr.Liebeler. Tell us about those goggles. Were they something like sunglasses? Describe them.

Mr.Rogers. I don't know. I couldn't say that.

Mr.Liebeler. Did you see what license plates the station wagon had on it?

Mr.Rogers. No, Mr. Liebeler, I couldn't tell you on that. Kind of a gray station wagon. He was putting the packing, everything in that himself.

Mr.Liebeler. Do you know when the station wagon left?

Mr.Rogers. Well, I told my wife—she said she might have left early in the morning before we got up, with the lady.

Mr.Liebeler. You think that she might have left with the lady?

Mr.Rogers. Yes. Then he left that night or late afternoon. Went out in a hurry. Left all the lights on.

Mr.Liebeler. Who was in the station wagon? Was there another lady?

Mr.Rogers. Yes.

Mr.Liebeler. Did you see the station wagon leave?

Mr.Rogers. We didn't see it leave, but it wasn't there when he left. There was nobody else evidently.

Mr.Liebeler. Did you see Oswald at all after the station wagon left?

Mr.Rogers. No; I didn't see him until that night. He slipped out of there. He was going out to catch the bus across the street. The bus stop is right across the street from us.

Mr.Liebeler. You did see Oswald come out of the apartment in the evening?

Mr.Rogers. Yes. We was sitting on the porch at that time.

Mr.Liebeler. So it is clear to you that Oswald did not leave with the ladies in the station wagon?

Mr.Rogers. No; he didn't leave with them in the station wagon. It was the following evening he left on the bus with these two handbags.

Mr.Liebeler. That was in the evening?

Mr.Rogers. Yes.

Mr.Liebeler. He ran across the street and got on the bus?

Mr.Rogers. That's right.

Mr.Liebeler. Did he get on the bus at the bus stop?

Mr.Rogers. Bus stop on the corner right opposite.

Mr.Liebeler. Toward the center of the city?

Mr.Rogers. Yes.

Mr.Liebeler. Did you see the bags that he had in his hand when he went out?

Mr.Rogers. My wife seen some of them.

Mr.Liebeler(handing pictures to witness). Let me show you some pictures and see if these look like it.

Mr.Rogers(indicating). This middle one, I know that ain't the type there. That's not the type.

Mr.Liebeler(handing picture to witness). I show you a picture of a bag that has been marked as "Commission Exhibit No. 126," and ask you if that looks like the bag.

Mr.Rogers. That's it. That's it.

Mr.Liebeler. Does that look like one of the bags?

Mr.Rogers. That looks to me like it was.

Mr.Liebeler(handing picture to witness). Now I show you a picture which we will mark Rogers Exhibit No. 1, showing two views of a bag. Does it look like the one Oswald had?

Mr.Rogers. You mean—he had two of them.

Mr.Liebeler. How many did he have?

Mr.Rogers. He had two of them in my estimation, each one in one hand. They looked like these here to me, to my knowledge. I mean, yes. I don't think it was this type [indicating]. I would say this type [indicating].

Mr.Liebeler. And you are pointing to No. A-1, which is a picture of Commission Exhibit No. 126 and do you think he had two bags that looked like "Commission Exhibit No. 126." Did he carry both in one hand?

Mr.Rogers. One in each hand.

Mr.Liebeler. As far as you can tell, he did not have a bag similar to Rogers Exhibit No. 1?

Mr.Rogers. No, no. It was kind of daylight. You could see. You know what I mean?

Mr.Liebeler. What makes you sure that he didn't have one like Rogers Exhibit No. 1? Is it a different size?

Mr.Rogers. It was—they both look like the same size, and they were well packed. They were well stuffed. I know they wasn't light. I don't know what he had in them.

Mr.Liebeler. So in your estimation, he had two bags like Exhibit 126?

Mr.Rogers. If I am not mistaken, they are the two bags that my wife and I identified when they came over to the house, somebody from Oklahoma. He was transferred down here.

Mr.Liebeler. An FBI agent?

Mr.Rogers. Yes.

Mr.Liebeler. They actually brought the bags over?

Mr.Rogers. They had the pictures like this.

Mr.Liebeler. Did he show you pictures like these two that I have got here?

Mr.Rogers. Sure did.

Mr.Liebeler. They had bags like Exhibit 126?

Mr.Rogers. Yes. This is the type. That's the green type of looking luggage.

Mr.Liebeler. You say again that he did not have a bag that looked like Rogers Exhibit No. 1?

Mr.Rogers. Yes.

Mr.Liebeler. Now, did Oswald leave as far as you can tell on the same day that the station wagon left, or on the next day?

Mr.Rogers. Well, they packed that night and, yes; they left on the same day, the following evening.

Mr.Liebeler. They packed the station wagon on one day and the next day you looked out and the station wagon was gone?

Mr.Rogers. He left that following evening. I figured he was moving. I don't know. If he was moving, he was supposed to tell the landlord.

Mr.Liebeler. Did he talk to the landlord about it?

Mr.Rogers. No; but she knew about it. He didn't talk to her. He didn't talk to nobody. He would give you the money and wouldn't say nothing. He was quiet himself, that's all.

Mr.Liebeler(handing picture to witness). I am going to show you a picture that has been marked "Bringuier Exhibit No. 1," and ask you if you recognize anybody in that picture.

Mr.Rogers. Wait. Let me get my glasses on. I can see better this way. [Examining picture.] No, Mr. Liebeler, I don't think. I don't think. No; I don't think I know any one in there.

Mr.Liebeler(handing picture to witness). I show you a picture that has been marked "Garner Exhibit No. 1," and ask you if you recognize any individual that is in that picture.

Mr.Rogers. Well, maybe he did identify him, but I never saw this man. No. That's when this happened? Mr. Garner did, but I didn't. No, I—if he did come around, I wasn't there. If I did, I would tell you, you know.

Mr.Liebeler(handing picture to witness). I show you a picture that has been marked "Pizzo Exhibit No. 453-A," and ask you if you recognize that man.

Mr.Rogers. No. I seen plenty people, but I don't know him either. If I did, I would tell you.

Mr.Liebeler. All right. Thank you very much, Mr. Rogers.

Mr.Rogers. Under oath, I tell you just exactly what I tell you, the same thing. As far as the boy is concerned, you know, he never spoke to anybody. Go in and out, eat and clean. Didn't nobody knew his business.

Mr.Liebeler. He kept pretty much to himself?

Mr.Rogers. Yes.

The testimony of James Lehrer was taken at 10:45 a.m., on July 24, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Wesley J. Liebeler, assistant counsel of the President's Commission.

Mr.Liebeler. Will you please stand and take the oath? Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Mr.Lehrer. I do.

Mr.Liebeler. My name is Wesley J. Liebeler. I am an attorney on the staff of the President's Commission investigating the assassination of President Kennedy. I have been authorized to take your testimony by the Commission pursuant to authority granted to it by President Johnson's Executive Order 11130, dated November 29, 1963, and joint resolution of Congress, No. 137. Under the Commission's rules governing the taking of testimony, you are entitled to 3 days' notice and to have an attorney here if you want to, and you are entitled to the usual privileges and rights concerning self incrimination and that sort of thing as far as answering my questions are concerned. I know that you have not had 3 days' notice of this, but I understand that you are here voluntarily and that you are prepared to proceed without an attorney; is that correct?

Mr.Lehrer. Yes, sir.

Mr.Liebeler. Please state your name.

Mr.Lehrer. James Lehrer [spelling], L-e-h-r-e-r.

Mr.Liebeler. When and where were you born?

Mr.Lehrer. May 19, 1934, Wichita, Kans.

Mr.Liebeler. Where do you live?

Mr.Lehrer. Dallas; 3709 West Beverly.

Mr.Liebeler. Would you outline your educational background for us, please?

Mr.Lehrer. High school, graduate of Victoria College, University of Missouri.

Mr.Liebeler. What did you major in at the university?

Mr.Lehrer. Journalism.

Mr.Liebeler. Are you presently employed by the Dallas Times Herald?

Mr.Lehrer. Yes.

Mr.Liebeler. How long have you worked with them?

Mr.Lehrer. Nearly 3 years.

Mr.Liebeler. What is your job over there?

Mr.Lehrer. I am a reporter.

Mr.Liebeler. Do you cover a specific beat?

Mr.Lehrer. I cover the Federal beat, labor, and politics—some politics.

Mr.Liebeler. What did you do before you went to work with the Dallas Times Herald?

Mr.Lehrer. I was with the Dallas Morning News about 2 years.

Mr.Liebeler. Before that?

Mr.Lehrer. I was in the Marine Corps. I went there directly from school into the service.

Mr.Liebeler. And then you came to work for the Dallas Morning News?

Mr.Lehrer. I did.

Mr.Liebeler. Then you went to work for the Dallas Times Herald and you are employed by them now?

Mr.Lehrer. Yes, sir.

Mr.Liebeler. I have received information that you were in the office of the Dallas Times Herald on the morning of November 28, 1963; is that correct?

Mr.Lehrer. Yes.

Mr.Liebeler. Would you tell us when you got there and what you did that morning and what you saw?

Mr.Lehrer. Well, it was Thanksgiving and I got there about 7 or 7:30, something like that, and I don't remember specifically any stories that I worked on on that day. It was just a routine day, not a routine day—a holiday is not routine, because you don't work the whole day on a holiday, so I only worked until around noon that day.

Mr.Liebeler. You got to the office about 7 o'clock?

Mr.Lehrer. About 7 or 7:30—something like that.

Mr.Liebeler. Do you know Hunter Schmidt, Jr.?

Mr.Lehrer. Yes; I do.

Mr.Liebeler. Is he also employed as a reporter by the Dallas Times Herald?

Mr.Lehrer. Yes.

Mr.Liebeler. And he was at that time?

Mr.Lehrer. Right.

Mr.Liebeler. Did you see him in the office that morning?

Mr.Lehrer. Yes, sir.

Mr.Liebeler. Are you familiar with the fact that a story appeared in the Dallas Times Herald on this day concerning a gunshop in Irving, Tex., at which Oswald was supposed to have had some work done on a rifle?

Mr.Lehrer. Right.

Mr.Liebeler. Were you aware of how that story came into the office of the newspaper?

Mr.Lehrer. Yes; in a general way. The desk, or the city desk, which consists of the city editor and the assistant city editor or the rewrite staff—somewhere they got a tip that there was a fellow in Irving who had mounted the sight or knew something about it. It was given to Hunter to check out. I happened to be sitting over there. I do not normally work physically on the city desk, but all of us had been working on the assassination aspects and it had been a lot of my responsibility in particular, because so much of it was on my beat at that time, and somebody said they got this guy and they gave it to Hunter to check out and I was sitting right next to Hunter and when he checked it out—in other words—when he called.

Mr.Liebeler. What did he do—do you remember?

Mr.Lehrer. Well, he just—he was talking to somebody on the telephone and he was given the checkout and he had the man's name before he called and he called somebody on the phone and I was doing something myself—I wasn't writing a story, but I was sitting there and he was talking to this guy, talking to somebody on the telephone, let's put it that way, and when he got through he said something about, "Yeah—this is it; that's right."

Or, it was words to that effect, and then I looked at his notes, you know, and said, "That's a hell of a story," or something like that, and about that time somebody said, "Don't talk about it, write it." So he gave it to, I think it was—I'm not sure about this, but I think it was in a general story of the assassination developments of that day, which we were running every day, and I think a rewrite man may have taken the notes and written the story. I don't recall seeing Hunter write the story.

Mr.Liebeler. Do you know the name of the man that Schmidt was talking to?

Mr.Lehrer. I can only assume it was Ryder.

Mr.Liebeler. What leads you to that assumption?

Mr.Lehrer. Well, it was just circumstantially—I believe it was. I mean, he was given this name and the information that this man is supposed to have mounted the sight on Oswald's rifle.

Mr.Liebeler. And the name he was given was Dial Ryder; is that right?

Mr.Lehrer. That's right; that's right.

Mr.Liebeler. And he was told to check that story?

Mr.Lehrer. That's right.

Mr.Liebeler. And he proceeded to do it?

Mr.Lehrer. He proceeded to do it. He dialed a number and got somebody on the line and started talking and when he got through, he said, "That's right." I looked at his notes—I don't have a specific recollection of what the notes said, but I remember that he had some quotes there, I mean, he had some information in the notes that verified the story, and at that time—one of the reasons I was interested in it—I was working on the story we finally ran the next day on the FBI looking for where Oswald might have possibly test fired this rifle, so that was one of the reasons I was particularly interested in it, because I wasn't coordinating our assassination coverage, but I was vitally involved in it, I would say, at that time, and I was working on this, and I think he gave the notes to a rewrite man. I'm not sure, but I don't know what happened after that.

Mr.Liebeler. In any event, you have the specific recollection that Schmidt engaged in a conversation over the telephone for some period of time at a time when he was supposed to be checking out this story of the gunsmith in Irving?

Mr.Lehrer. That's right.

Mr.Liebeler. After this conversation was over, he indicated to you that the story checked out?

Mr.Lehrer. That's right.

Mr.Liebeler. Subsequently that day the story, in fact, appeared in the newspaper, indicating that there was evidence to show that Oswald had taken his rifle to this particular gunshop.

Mr.Lehrer. Right.

Mr.Liebeler. Have you discussed this situation with Schmidt recently?

Mr.Lehrer. No; actually, I talked to him about it briefly this morning.

He was somewhat—he didn't recall who was sitting next to him and I told him I had, because I didn't think there was any problem, and I just mentioned that. Now, the FBI—one thing—as far as that's concerned—and as far as the fact that somebody might think that Hunter and I got together on this—the day the FBI got this, and apparently it was sent down by the Commission who said, "Check this out"—that Ryder apparently—there was some question about it—and the FBI came up there and a guy by the name of—well, there were two agents from Oklahoma City who were working a special on the assassination at that time—just the assassination story. It was Petrakis and some other guy—I don't remember the other guy's name, but they came up and talked to Ken Smart. You see, there was no byline on the story and they said, "Who wrote the story?" and Smart apparently said he didn't know and they went back and looked in the files and that indicated who wrote it and so Ken came over to me and showed me the story with Petrakis and this other guy there, and he said, "Did you write the story?" And I said, "No, Hunter Schmidt wrote the story"; that's how they found out Hunter even wrote it—where he got the information was when I told him and so then we talked about this thing briefly, you know, and Ken said, "Apparently Ryder is saying that he didn't talk to anybody at the time," and I told Smart and Petrakis and this other fellow here that I was sitting right next to the fellow and that he was talking to somebody and I assumed it was Ryder and then I hadn't even mentioned it to Hunter, because Hunter was not in the office that day and Petrakis finally got ahold of him at home on the phone, I believe, or talked to him later and Hunter didn't even know until this morning.

As I say, then Hunter told me that—it was you, I believe, that told him thatthere was a witness who could verify that there was such a conversation and he said, "Who is that, what are you talking about?" And he said, "Why didn't you tell me before?" I said I didn't think there would be any problem—I just mentioned it to Martha Jo in passing here one day.

Mr.Liebeler. You say this morning Schmidt told you he had been over here last night and he had been questioned?

Mr.Lehrer. Yes.

Mr.Liebeler. Did he tell you the details of his experience last night?

Mr.Lehrer. A little bit.

Mr.Liebeler. He told you that Mr. Ryder had been in here?

Mr.Lehrer. Yes; that Ryder was here.

Mr.Liebeler. But in point of fact and indicating for the record, the way the information came most recently to my attention, that you had overheard this, because Mrs. Martha Jo Stroud, an assistant U.S. attorney in this office, told me that you had come over here after we had asked Schmidt to come over and testify.

Mr.Lehrer. Right.

Mr.Liebeler. And you mentioned to her in passing that you thought probably we wanted Schmidt to come over so we could ask him about this newspaper story that was written in connection with the Irving Sports Shop; isn't that right?

Mr.Lehrer. Well, specifically, when Martha Jo called Hunter and told him that somebody from the Warren Commission wanted to talk to him on a certain day, Hunter came over to me and said, "Somebody from Washington is coming in," and you know, I didn't know that anybody was coming in. You know, you are unannounced on your trips here and this is part of my responsibility to cover Warren Commission people when they come and I try to do it, and I said—we discussed, "Maybe they want to talk to you about this deal, because the FBI had talked to you before," and so the next day when I was down talking to Martha Jo, we were talking about it and I indicated to her this was probably what it was. I told her what it was probably about and I said there was no problem—I was just sitting there and just sitting there very casually.

Mr.Liebeler. You don't have any doubt in your mind whatsoever that Schmidt actually talked to Ryder that morning, do you?

Mr.Lehrer. No.

Mr.Liebeler. You are aware of the fact, of course, that Ryder denies talking to this man?

Mr.Lehrer. That's what I understand.

Mr.Liebeler. And you have no information that would suggest any reason why Ryder would deny this?

Mr.Lehrer. I can't think of any reason unless he denies the information, if he just denies the technicality that he didn't talk to a newspaperman or didn't talk to Schmidt specifically, that's one thing; if he's denying the whole bit, that's conceivable.

Mr.Liebeler. No; he doesn't deny the whole bit, he just denies that he was the one that gave that story out.

Mr.Lehrer. I see; I don't know what it could be in that.

Mr.Liebeler. Can you think of any reason why Schmidt might be lying about it?

Mr.Lehrer. No; he had nothing to gain by it. It was just a story, and my goodness, we were working—I mean—there were a multitude of stories and a multitude of checking out and we were deluged just like everybody was with rumors and things of this and that and he would have no reason to write something that wasn't true. The fact is, he didn't even have his name on it, so he didn't have anything to gain by it.

Mr.Liebeler. All right, thank you very much.

Mr.Lehrer. Thank you.

Mr.Liebeler. We appreciate your cooperation.

Mr.Lehrer. All right.

The following affidavit was executed by Bardwell D. Odum on July 10, 1964.

AFFIDAVIT

PRESIDENT'S COMMISSIONON THE ASSASSINATION OFPRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY

State of Texas,County of Dallas, ss:

I, Bardwell D. Odum, having first been duly sworn, depose as follows:

I am presently a Special Agent of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, U.S. Department of Justice, and have been employed in such a capacity since June 15, 1942.

On November 23, 1963, while acting officially in my capacity as a Special Agent of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, I obtained a photograph of an unknown individual, furnished to the Federal Bureau of Investigation by the Central Intelligence Agency, and proceeded to the Executive Inn, a motel, at Dallas, Texas, where Marina Oswald was staying.

In view of the source of this picture, and, in order to remove all background data which might possibly have disclosed the location where the picture was taken, I trimmed off the background. The straight cuts made were more quickly done than a complete trimming of the silhouette and I considered them as effective for the desired purpose.

I desired to show this photograph to Marina Oswald in an attempt to identify the individual portrayed in the photograph and to determine if he was an associate of Lee Harvey Oswald.

It was raining and almost dark. I went to the door of Marina Oswald's room and knocked, identifying myself. Marguerite Oswald opened the door slightly and, upon being informed that I wished to speak to Marina Oswald, told me that Marina Oswald was completely exhausted and could not be interviewed. Marguerite Oswald did not admit me to the motel room. I told her I desired to show a photograph to Marina Oswald, and Marguerite Oswald again said that Marina was completely exhausted and could not be interviewed due to that fact. I then showed Marguerite Oswald the photograph in question. She looked at it briefly and stated that she had never seen this individual. I then departed the Executive Inn. The conversation with Marguerite Oswald and the exhibition of the photograph took place while I was standing outside the door to the room and Marguerite Oswald was standing inside with the door slightly ajar.

Attached hereto are two photographic copies of the front and back of aphotograph.GI have examined these copies and they are exact copies of the photograph of the unknown individual which I showed to Mrs. Marguerite Oswald on November 23, 1963.

Signed this 10th day of July 1964.

(S)Bardwell D. Odum,Bardwell D. Odum.

GThe photograph referred to in the above affidavit of Special Agent Bardwell D. Odum appears in the exhibit volumes as Odum Exhibit No. 1.

The following affidavit was executed by James R. Malley on July 14, 1964.

AFFIDAVIT

PRESIDENT'S COMMISSIONON THE ASSASSINATION OFPRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY

District of Columbia,ss:

I, James R. Malley, Inspector, Federal Bureau of Investigation, Department of Justice, being first duly sworn, depose as follows:

In accordance with a request by Mr. Howard P. Willens, a member of the staff of the President's Commission on the Assassination of President Kennedy, I transmitted to the Commission on February 11, 1964, a copy of a photograph of an unidentified man which was made available to the Federal Bureau of Investigation by the Central Intelligence Agency.

Prior to transmitting the aforementioned copy of this photograph to the President's Commission, I used a scissors and trimmed from the photograph all background which surrounded the head, shoulders and arms of the unidentified individual. I did this, inasmuch as the Central Intelligence Agency had previously advised that it had no objection to this Bureau furnishing a copy of this photograph to the President's Commission with all background eliminated.

I have examined a copy of Commission Exhibit 237, which isattached,Hand it appears such exhibit was made from the copy of the photograph of the unidentified individual which I cropped and transmitted to Mr. Willens on February 11, 1964.

To my knowledge, the identity of the unknown individual depicted in the copy of the photograph which I transmitted to Mr. Willens on February 11, 1964, has not been established.

I have reviewed records of the Federal Bureau of Investigation in this particular matter and such records disclose that a duplicate copy of this same photograph was cropped in a different shape to remove background by Special Agent Bardwell D. Odum of the Dallas Office of the Federal Bureau of Investigation and was then exhibited to Mrs. Marguerite Oswald by Special Agent Odum on November 23, 1963.

Signed this 14th day of July 1964, at Washington, D.C.

(S)James R. Malley,James R. Malley.

HThe photograph referred to in the above affidavit of Inspector James R. Malley is identical to Commission Exhibit No. 237 and appears in the exhibit volumes.

The following affidavit was executed by Richard Helms on August 7, 1964.

AFFIDAVIT

PRESIDENT'S COMMISSIONON THE ASSASSINATION OFPRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY

State of Virginia,County of Fairfax, ss:

Richard Helms, being duly sworn says:

1. I am the Deputy Director for Plans of the Central Intelligence Agency.

2. I base this affidavit on my personal knowledge of the affairs of the Central Intelligence Agency and on detailed inquiries of those officers and employees within my supervision who would have knowledge about any photographs furnished by that Agency to the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

3. I have personally examined the photograph which has been marked Commission Exhibit No. 237, a copy of which is attached to the affidavit of Inspector James R. Malley, dated July 14, 1964, and the photograph attached to the affidavit of Special Agent Bardwell D. Odum dated July 10, 1964.

4. Those photographs are partial copies of a photograph furnished by the Central Intelligence Agency to the Federal Bureau of Investigation on November 22, 1963. They are referred to as partial only because, on information and belief, Odum and Malley personally trimmed or cropped their copies of the photograph to exclude the background against which the individual portrayed in these photographs is depicted in the original photograph.

5. The figure portrayed in those photographs is the same individual portrayed in the original photograph.

6. The original photograph was taken outside of the continental United States sometime during the period July 1, 1963 to November 23, 1963.

Signed this 7th day of August 1964.

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