Mr.Montgomery. Archer and them, let’s see, were in our office, when we got back from the hospital—Archer and Harrison, Cutchshaw and Lowery were all in the office when we got back.
Mr.Griffin. Was there any discussion in there about how Ruby got into the basement?
Mr.Montgomery. I think there was some—somebody say, “How did he get down here?”
Mr.Griffin. And what was said?
Mr.Montgomery. Well, of course, nobody knew for sure. Said, “Well, no telling how he got in.”
Mr.Griffin. Did you see Archer after that other than when you saw him up in the jail cell?
Mr.Montgomery. Not that day. I don’t believe Archer was in our office. I know Harrison and Cutchshaw and Lowery were in there, and McMillon was upstairs with Archer, because I remember now in the scuffle down here in apprehending Jack Ruby, McMillon lost his hat, and, of course, I thought it was Ruby’s hat, so, I was hanging onto it, you know, and on the way to Parkland I looked inside and T. D. McMillon’s initials were in it, so, upon our arrival back from Parkland Hospital to the office, I went down to McMillon’s office and left his hat.
Mr.Griffin. Did you talk with Harrison at all about how Ruby got in, Blackie Harrison?
Mr.Montgomery. I don’t believe I did.
Mr.Griffin. Did you talk with Lowery at all about it?
Mr.Montgomery. Well, like I say, we were all back there in that squadroom, and somebody said, “How did he get down there?” And I don’t know who said—well, I don’t know.
Mr.Griffin. Didn’t Lowery say at that point that he thought Ruby pushed a TV camera in?
Mr.Montgomery. I couldn’t swear that he did or didn’t.
Mr.Griffin. How long did you, Cutchshaw, Lowery, and Harrison remain in the homicide office?
Mr.Montgomery. Didn’t stay there but just a few minutes. I know when we left they were in there writing out a report of some kind. Didn’t even ask them what they was writing. Sitting there writing something. Anyway, after I talked to them just as—just a second, I went back to where Captain Fritz was, and that was when they sent us back upstairs to get Ruby.
Mr.Griffin. Hall, Harrison, Cutchshaw and Lowery are all from the juvenile bureau?
Mr.Montgomery. Yes.
Mr.Griffin. Now, did you talk with Dean at all on Sunday afterthe——
Mr.Montgomery. Gene?
Mr.Griffin. Dean. Officer Dean.
Mr.Montgomery. No.
Mr.Griffin. Did you talk with Officer McMillon at all after the shooting?
Mr.Montgomery. Seemed like I talked to him later on that night and told him about his hat.
Mr.Griffin. Do you recall him telling you anything about how Ruby got in?
Mr.Montgomery. No.
Mr.Griffin. Now, you knew that McMillon had been up there in this jail cell with Ruby?
Mr.Montgomery. Uh-huh.
Mr.Griffin. Did you ask him anything about what Ruby was saying?
Mr.Montgomery. No; I didn’t.
Mr.Griffin. Did he tell you anything about what Ruby was saying?
Mr.Montgomery. No.
Mr.Griffin. How about Archer? Did you see him?
Mr.Montgomery. I don’t believe—I don’t recall seeing Archer any more after they leftthe——
Mr.Griffin. Uh-huh.
Mr.Montgomery. Jail.
Mr.Griffin. Okay. I want you to take the pen back from me.
Mr.Montgomery. All right.
Mr.Griffin. And I want to mark these two documents for identification.
Mr.Montgomery. Uh-huh.
Mr.Griffin. And I am going to mark this one Exhibit 5005, and the second one Exhibit 5006.
Mr.Montgomery. Uh-huh.
Mr.Griffin. And each of them, “Dallas, Texas, Detective Montgomery’s deposition. 3-24-64”. These are copies of FBI reports?
Mr.Montgomery. Uh-huh.
Mr.Griffin. And they represent, ofcourse——
Mr.Montgomery. Their interview with me.
Mr.Griffin. Their interview with you; yes. Now, I am going to ask you to look at 5005. This purports to be an interview that was made on December 4, 1963.
Mr.Montgomery. Uh-huh.
Mr.Griffin. By James Kennedy and Leo Robertson ofthe——
Mr.Montgomery. With who?
Mr.Griffin. With you.
Mr.Montgomery. I didn’t talk to no two. I talked to one. I talked to Mr. Bookhout and one other agent is all. Let’s see. Maybe I had better read this before I start talking. Let’s see.
Mr.Griffin. Look it over and tell me if you remember that interview?
Mr.Montgomery. “Stated they had known Ruby for several years.” That must mean “he.”
Mr.Griffin. Tell you what. Let’s take a break here and let Officer Montgomeryread this over, and then I want to know whether you feel that there should be any additions or corrections made in it.
(Discussion off the record.)
Mr.Griffin. I will hand you what has been marked as Exhibit 5005 and 5006. Have you had a chance to look those over, Mr. Montgomery?
Mr.Montgomery. Yes.
Mr.Griffin. Is there anything you want to add to those statements that you haven’t told us already?
Mr.Montgomery. No; not that I know of.
Mr.Griffin. Do you want to make any corrections in those statements, in light of what you have said today?
Mr.Montgomery. Well, on this one right here, Mr. Griffin, it said, “He states they had known Ruby for several years.” I don’t know who “they” would be. See on that second paragraph where it says, “He stated they——”
Mr.Griffin. You want to change that to “he”?
Mr.Montgomery. Uh-huh. That is the only thing I see in there.
Mr.Griffin. Okay. Let me look it over for just a second. I notice in here that you stated that you felt that you hadn’t seen Ruby for at least 2 years prior to the time of the shooting.
Mr.Montgomery. That is what I was thinking about. Anywhere from a year, year and a half, to 2 years.
Mr.Griffin. Your best recollection is for a year, or year and a half?
Mr.Montgomery. Probably was a year and a half. My partner—after I gave that to the agent there, this partner advised me that one night we were driving down Commerce Street and Jack pulled up beside of us and spoke to us in his car. I don’t recall seeing him, but my partner told me he—that we had seen him there. That shouldn’t have been too long before all this happened. I guess two orthree——
Mr.Griffin. Who was your partner that told you that?
Mr.Montgomery. It was Mr. Johnson.
Mr.Griffin. What’s his first name?
Mr.Montgomery. Marvin Johnson, but I don’t recall seeing Ruby then, at that time.
Mr.Griffin. You stated in here, I think it is 5006—at least it’s reported that as you “brought Oswald down into the jail area the two officers with Oswald between them and Montgomery hesitated before going into this corridor while Capt. J. W. Fritz checked with Chief——to see if the area was clear.” Agent Bookhout hasn’t indicated here what chief that was. Are you able to fill in that blank?
Mr.Montgomery. Well, actually what that was was I told him, “Chief,” say who did the captain talk to when he stepped out that door. I couldn’t see. I just told him I thought it was the chief. I didn’t know. I didn’t—maybe it wasn’t even a chief that he talked to. It was some lieutenant out there that told him, that is why I say at that particular time I was hesitant on this. This “chief” business then.
Mr.Griffin. Do you have anything else that you want to tell us that we haven’t already covered that you think might be of use to the Commission?
Mr.Montgomery. Oh, well, I don’t know of anything. Looks like you all have covered it pretty well, and, of course, these reports here have it, too. One thing they say is not in here either. It is not—I haven’t told you yet, is when we had Ruby down on the floor inside the jail office there, that while we had him down and was holding him on the floor there he said he hoped he killed the s.o.b.
Mr.Griffin. You heard him say that?
Mr.Montgomery. Yes; of course, there were other officers that heard it, too. We was all standing right there. That is the one thing that wasn’t in this report here. I don’t recall seeing it, do you?
Mr.Griffin. Now, did you testify in the Jack Ruby trial?
Mr.Montgomery. No; I never did testify.
Mr.Griffin. I think maybe one last thing. If you would look over this map, now, and if you feel that the marks that we’ve put on here are accurate on the basis of what we have done before, I would like you to sign it.
Mr.Montgomery. Right here, let me put “news media,” right below that so that I will know as well as someone else might know.
Mr.Griffin. Okay. Sign it, if you would.
Mr.Montgomery. Over here?
Mr.Griffin. That would be fine.
Mr.Montgomery. You want me to date it or anything?
Mr.Griffin. No; that’s all right. We have got it on the record here. “The reporter will say witness signs an exhibit.”
All right. Okay. That concludes our interview, and thank you.