Mrs.Grant. We have never received money from any unethical organization, labor work, gratis, friends, or relatives such as gangsters or unions or Jack has gotten one dime out of anybody of that kind, or racketeer money, bookies or any type of, you know, discriminating businesses of any kind. I know his finances, I know where he has gotten 99 percent of his money and that is from members of the family. In fact, they can ask Marian and Earl a good deal about that.
I also know the night of November 22 when Jack was with me the evening before—7:15—during that short time he was with me and they were talking about Oswald, I had made the statement and this is what I said. “Don’t worry,” and I told it to the FBI and I didn’t see it in the report.
Mr.Burleson. “Don’t worry”—what?
Mrs.Grant. “That lousy Communist”—I’m referring to, and I mean, I assumed this myself.
Mr.Burleson. And you said it in Jack’s presence?
Mrs.Grant. That’s right. “Don’t worry, that some lousy Communist will get him before anybody else does.”
Mr.Burleson. The Communist will get him before anybody else?
Mrs.Grant. That’s just what I said and I did not see it in this report—I don’t think I saw it. I did say it because I already talked to four or five people on the phone and I’m going to tell you why I said that—everyone on television and it seems it was Curry, which is our chief of police—says he’s someone that’s come out with three draft cards, he has been in Cuba and he defected to Russia and I think my mind is like 40 million other grownups, decided that he was a Communist sent here for this kind of a thing and the people that I knew that I speak to on the phone at that time or had been friends with all felt the same way or talked about it in that way. He couldn’t help but think that. It’s because what television has presented to the public, and then this thing in the paper and this was only Friday evening, and I have made that remark—I made it not only to him, to Pauline Hall, and to Madeline Blainey and to Emma and to Leo and whoever called I kept talking about that and made that remark, and I made it not only to him but to these others, and I kept talking about it because I was imbedded with that in my mind from television. They kept talking about it—they indicated he had three draft cards, he went to Russia and they threw him out and they planted him here and he went to Cuba and he had money and he was going to hire a plane.
Mr.Burleson. Okay—anything else you want to go into this to clarify this?
Mrs.Grant. Jack has always been a fighter for the Jews. Any—in the Army, if they look back, he didn’t mind—if you fought and if you cussed and they said words like sheeny or kike or Jew—he belted it out to them. I know my brother Jack. He told me of different incidents. One of the things that he loved about this President—he didn’t care what you were, you were a human being and Jack felt that this was one time in history that Jews are getting the break. He put in great Jewish men in office, they were fit to hold the office, and, of course, we are not Catholics and we never discuss religion in that effect, but my brother had such a great admiration for this man. It’s unbelievable.
Mr.Hubert. Did Jack ever tell you why he shot Oswald?
Mrs.Grant. The truth is this—here recently with his head out—he said he did it for Jackie and the kids, but I think he’s just looking for a reason.
Mr.Hubert. No; I’m talking about the first few days?
Mrs.Grant. He didn’t talk—for 10 days he never mentioned it and I never mentioned it, but in this white overall he had a little picture and on one side is the late President’s picture in color. It is the most beautiful picture of him that I have seen. On the other side is a prayer of the Catholics. I have never seen my brother carry anything like that. He is definitely a good Jew no matterwhat people think. He had kissed the President’s picture in front of me—right in front of me like a baby, and he held that card prayer and his lawyers have seen him, and I don’t know what denomination they all are—we don’t go that way. He just held that card there, there’s a little pocket in there—all he knows—let me put it this way—it maybe was in back of his mind something that I don’t know or nobody knows, but he loved the President, but he had no idea of doing this. In the firstplace——
Mr.Hubert. It wouldn’t do any good, I don’t believe, for you to give your opinions.
Mrs.Grant. All right.
Mr.Hubert. If you know from what he told you, that’s another matter, but you say he has not told you that?
Mrs.Grant. This was a shock out of my wits.
Mr.Burleson. Let me ask you this—he didn’t tell you that, then?
Mrs.Grant. No.
Mr.Burleson. Now, something we haven’t gone into and might be relevant to this—Jack had a great acquaintance with the police, didn’t he?
Mrs.Grant. Far greater than the average citizen of this city, unless they were a wife of a man.
Mr.Burleson. Could you tell us what Jack’s attitude was toward the police?
Mrs.Grant. They were very friendly, he admired them, he thought they were good people. On many occasions some policeman would have a night off and he would want to take his wife out on his anniversary and it’s in between paydays, Jack would let him have $10 and he would say, “I’ll write a check” and so Jack didn’t want to take the check and sometimes he would hold it 6 years and this check was still in there which they can see among his possessions. He admired the police department. He was very close. In fact, he entertained them in the club on their nights off and I’m positive some have been out to his apartment.
Mr.Burleson. Do you know whether or not Jack knew Officer J. D. Tippit?
Mrs.Grant. He said he knew a Tippit but it’s like me—there was a Tipton, a Tippit, and a Tipin (spelling) p-i-n, and a Tipton, and as far as I was concerned, even when Payton was talking to me, they were all the same man, until much later I found out there are three Tippits, there is a Tipton and a Tipin.
Mr.Burleson. Did Jack, during the period November 22 through the last time you talked to him on the 23d or the 24th of November, say anything to you about the fact that Officer Tippit was killed?
Mrs.Grant. Yes; on Saturday evening, during this 4-hour period I was very sick and I, of course—I was physically sick besides mentally sick now over the assassination of the President, and we talked about the Governor being shot and different things and he says, “You think you will be all right to go to the funeral,” but I was so sick.
Mr.Burleson. Did he say what funeral?
Mrs.Grant. Oh, yes; he meant the policeman’s funeral—Tippit’s. Of course, a lot of people don’t know—he went to all of the policemen’s funerals and, of course, there has been a few funerals—if it was a member of their families and if he knew the fellows he would go. He was that kind. He tried to pay his respects to people.
Mr.Burleson. But he did have a conversation about Tippit?
Mrs.Grant. Yes.
Mr.Burleson. What did he say about Tippit being killed?
Mrs.Grant. He said, “You think you will be all right”—and this was Saturday, and I said, “Yes,” and he said, “Well, do you think you will be all right?” And I hollered back like—I said, “Yes—yes,” and not to bother me. I was too sick—I didn’t even want to think of it, but I’ll be honest, all the time he’s talking to me I had it in my mind—“I’m not going, I’m too sick and I know I ain’t going to feel good Monday,” see.
Mr.Burleson. In other words, he told you he had planned to go to Tippit’s funeral on Monday?
Mrs.Grant. That’s right—no; he didn’t say “Monday”, he did not say Monday—he didn’t say the date.
Mr.Burleson. Whenever it was?
Mrs.Grant. He said to the funeral.
Mr.Burleson. Tippit’s funeral?
Mrs.Grant. Yes; but he says—he saw I was sick and he figured maybe I don’t want to get out and he says, “Do you think you can go to dinner tomorrow?” And he does take me to dinner.
Mr.Burleson. But anyway, he had made arrangements or was telling you that he and you were going to the funeral of Tippit, is that right?
Mrs.Grant. That’s correct—that’s what he thought.
Mr.Burleson. But you didn’t feel up to it physically?
Mrs.Grant. That Saturday I couldn’t see myself going, I’ll tell you, I just wanted to quiet him down.
Mr.Burleson. And as far as you know. Jack did not know Tippit?
Mrs.Grant. I don’t—I don’t know, all I could tell you is that Jack lived in Oak Cliff for a couple of years or maybe a year and a half and Tippit, being of that area, he could have run into him and known of him slightly. He didn’t know him as well as other policemen that I know he knows. I know of policemen much closer than him, but since this all happened, one of my coworkers, Leo Torti, showed me a magazine and Tippit was in our club sometime—a month previous to this—previous to his killing.
Mr.Hubert. Was it a picture of Tippit?
Mrs.Grant. It was a picture of Tippit, and he said, “Do you remember he talked to you up at the front, he was in in September or October or November sometime.”
Mr.Burleson. Was that the Carousel or the Vegas?
Mrs.Grant. The Vegas, and while I looked at him then I remembered that he looked familiar, but truthfully, you know, after the President’s assassination and this incident of my brother I didn’t see any newspaper. I didn’t look for anything to read. I had no television or radio on—I couldn’t take it.
Mr.Burleson. Mr. Hubert, I think that is all I have along that line.
Mr.Hubert. Mrs. Grant, earlier today, as a matter of fact, at the very beginning or prior to the beginning of the deposition, I showed you a list of names and telephone numbers and addresses on a document consisting of 37 pages, marked with a large “E”, and asked you to go through that list and make a check mark as to every name and number that had any significance to you at all.
Now, you have done so and I am going to ask, if I may, with the consent of your attorney, that I now read off that list of names as to those names that you have checked off, and I am going to request the reporter to make a special list of those that you have checked off and hand it to you so that you may make comments of your own, and then after consultation with your attorney, draft up an affidavit as to what comments you have to make with respect to each one of these people. In other words, you have indicated that the names that have been checked off have a significance to you.
Mrs.Grant. That’s right.
Mr.Hubert. I would like you to prepare notes and with the assistance of your attorney, draft an affidavit as to what significance each one of these names has. I understand that it will be perhaps a matter of 2 weeks or so before you can get that because there are quite a number of names.
Now, I will read those names so that the record will show which of the names you have marked off. I understand that as to those you have not marked off, those names have no significance to you; is that correct?
Mrs.Grant. That’s right—I can’t relate them to anything.
Mr.Burleson. May I make a suggestion—it may be a little time consuming, but if she could look back through that now that she has had an opportunity to testify and recall many, many things that she probably hasn’t thought of in some time—she could very quickly look at the ones she didn’t check?
Mrs.Grant. Is it possible that some of those are license plate numbers—could you tell?
Mr.Hubert. They seem to be mostly telephone numbers.
Mr.Burleson. Yes; ma’am—that’s right.
Mrs.Grant. May I explain something to you?
Mr.Hubert. Yes; please.
Mrs.Grant. All right. Jack would be driving along in his car and there would be a young lady drive up to the right of him. If she didn’t have amarriage ring and she looked cute and he thought she might like to see a little night life he would let her pass—he would look at her license number and copy the number and find out in the city hall where to send her—her name and address and the telephone—a complimentary card to come to the Vegas Club—he as a host.
Now, I told this to Payton and the other people and he would send these people cards because girls would come to the club and ask me, “Where is Mr. Ruby?” And I would say, “He’s not here.” And they said, “Well, he sent me this complimentary card.” Once I said something to him about it and he said “Oh, I sent this to a girl,” and I never thought anything about it. Finally, when he was arrested and I knew they found a lot of numbers, I said to him, “What are these numbers for?” And he said, “You know they are license plate numbers.”
Mr.Hubert. I see your point—it might be better if we gave her the whole list.
Mrs.Grant. I’m not going to steal it.
Mr.Hubert. I can’t give you this list but I can get these names run off.
Mr.Burleson. Suppose we do it that way and it may be that in time she can reflect better.
Mr.Hubert. Suppose we do it that way, then, and instead of doing it the way we have agreed, I will supply you with a list of all of these names and ask that you look at all of them and possibly you will see some that you have overlooked?
Mrs.Grant. That’s right—there may be one or two that I have overlooked.
Mr.Hubert. And I will ask you, then, to give us an affidavit as to the significance of any of these.
Mrs.Grant. I will be happy to.
Mr.Hubert. I would ask that you give us the affidavit only upon your own knowledge.
Mr.Burleson. Not as to what she has heard?
Mr.Hubert. Well, if she indicates it is what she knows from her own knowledge as apart from what she has heard.
Mrs.Grant. These are mostly strippers and waitresses that I know or have known, or comedians. Listen, what happened to the two boxes of names and addresses that they took out?
Mr.Hubert. I don’t know, ma’am. It may well be that these are they.
Mrs.Grant. That isn’t enough.
Mr.Hubert. Off the record.
(Discussion between counsel and the witness as to the names shown on the list heretofore referred to.)
Mr.Burleson. May I ask you—do you want this in one single affidavit, paragraph by paragraph?
Mr.Hubert. I don’t think so. I think that the affidavit could be in the usual form.
Mr.Burleson. What I am asking is, do you want a single affidavit as to each one of the names here?
Mr.Hubert. I think not, I think the usual affidavit form—one that says that—having been handed a list and so forth, that she has the following comment to make on each and then in numerical sequence, and as to the rest of them there is no significance.
Mr.Burleson. And one notary signature will be sufficient?
Mr.Hubert. Yes.
Mr.Burleson. And then there will be just one instrument?
Mr.Hubert. Yes.
Mrs.Grant. I do want to say this: Do you know Jack in his early teens and in the early thirties—he and these bad boys he later on disassociated himself with, they were people in the neighborhood—broke up Bund meetings in Chicago—do you know Chicago at all?
Mr.Hubert. No.
Mr.Burleson. For the record, I have no other questions to ask.
Mr.Hubert. I haven’t either. Thank you very much.
Mrs.Grant. All right.