Mr.Griffin. Now the brochure, did it have a picture of the twist board on it?
Mr.Crafard. Yes; I believe so. I am not positive of that.
Mr.Griffin. That concludes page 7, doesn’t it.
Mr.Crafard. Yes, sir.
Mr.Griffin. The front part of page 7.
Now turning to the back of page 7, there are some entries in pencil, are those all in your handwriting?
Mr.Crafard. Yes.
Mr.Griffin. Now what is the first entry?
Mr.Crafard. Ed McMulmore it looks like. It is probably spelled wrong.
Mr.Griffin. Do you remember that name?
Mr.Crafard. No, sir. I don’t.
Mr.Griffin. And then there is two telephone numbers written after that.
Mr.Crafard. There is the word “Johnnie call Detroit.”
Mr.Griffin. But there are two telephone numbers.
Mr.Crafard. Yes.
Mr.Griffin. And then the note “Johnnie call Detroit Helene.” What does that have to do with—?
Mr.Crafard. Johnnie was the first name of one of the MC’s Jack had working for him. I don’t recall the last name. He got a call to call Detroit, to call Helene in Detroit. Apparently he had the number because that is all I got. I was told to have him call Helene in Detroit.
Mr.Griffin. Do you know who Helene was?
Mr.Crafard. No, sir. I thought it was possibly his wife.
Mr.Griffin. Then there are three blank lines.
Mr.Crafard. Yes.
Mr.Griffin. And a number written upside down. What number is that?
Mr.Crafard. That is RI 6-6807.
Mr.Griffin. Do you recognize that number?
Mr.Crafard. No; I don’t. I don’t believe that is my handwriting. It doesn’t appear to be. For one thing for the fact that it is wrote with the page turned upside down, for one thing, and the numbers aren’t shaped like any numbers are shaped.
Mr.Griffin. Is it possible, referring to the top of the page, that this entry which looks like Ed McMulmore is really Ed Mc, and then Mulmore?
Mr.Crafard. It could be; yes.
Mr.Griffin. Would that mean anything to you reading it that way?
Mr.Crafard. No.
Mr.Griffin. Now written on the right side up on the back of page 7 after the entry RI 6-6807, there is another entry. What is that?
Mr.Crafard. CEN, which would be I believe the abbreviation for Central, and EX, which I believe would be the abbreviation for Expressway, dash 5400.
Mr.Griffin. What does that have to do with?
Mr.Crafard. I don’t think anything. I believe that is my writing. Let me see.
Mr.Griffin. It is or is not?
Mr.Crafard. I believe it is. Wait a minute, Jack was going somewhere or somebody else was going for him and he was having trouble, didn’t know how to get there. Somebody was going somewhere and they didn’t know how to get there and I was talking to the people they was going to see and they told me to have him turn at Central Expressway 5400 on McKinney to 2500.
Mr.Griffin. Those are directions to get to some place?
Mr.Crafard. Yes; McKinney, but I don’t remember where.
Mr.Griffin. And were they directions for you or for Jack?
Mr.Crafard. For somebody else. I don’t recall who it was for.
Mr.Griffin. For a friend of Jack’s?
Mr.Crafard. I don’t recall. I give the directions to somebody else but I don’t recall who it was.
Mr.Griffin. Now is it your understanding then that you would drive out Central Expressway to the 5400 block?
Mr.Crafard. Yes.
Mr.Griffin. And then at the 5400 block you would find McKinney?
Mr.Crafard. Make a right-hand turn I believe on McKinney, the 2500 block.
Mr.Griffin. What makes you think you make a right-hand turn?
Mr.Crafard. I remember something about the conversation. I am trying to remember. I can’t remember too much of it.
Mr.Griffin. Was that a conversation you had with somebody on the telephone?
Mr.Crafard. I believe it was. I am not positive. I would not swear to it but I believe it was over the telephone that I was given these directions.
Mr.Griffin. And you were to pass the directions on to somebody else?
Mr.Crafard. Yes.
Mr.Griffin. What part of Dallas would that be in, following those directions?
Mr.Crafard. I believe it would be the southern portion of Dallas, I am not sure. It seems to me 5400 on Central would be the other end of Dallas, the southern end.
Mr.Griffin. That concludes the back part of page 7. Now on page 8 there are some entries. Whose entries are those?
Mr.Crafard. These are my entries.
Mr.Griffin. All right, the first one has to do with somebody named Lenard Woods.
Mr.Crafard. Lenard Woods, his social security number, his address, 3420 Medow, Apt. No. 235. These gentlemen on this page are all members of the band that played at the Vegas Club, and it would be Milton Thomas, his social security number, with the address 2220 Anderson, the phone number HA 1-1026; Clarence McInnis, social security number, the address 2607 Oakland, no phone number; James Dotson, the social security number, the address 1136 Fletcher, his phone number RI 7-7436; the name James T. Aycox, his social security number, 2715 Hebornia; I believe it is with a notation under that that he also was known as Bear; they called him the Bear. His phone number was HA 1-1026.
Mr.Griffin. How did you happen to come to put all of those notations in there?
Mr.Crafard. Jack’s sister took sick. He had me get the names and the addresses of the boys. I had understood him to say he wanted it for tax purposes and I got the social security numbers too, so he could get in touch with them for one thing when he did want to get in touch with them and also for he said tax purposes.
Mr.Griffin. Did you see these men at the Vegas Club and get the information there or did you call them?
Mr.Crafard. I believe I got these from, it was either Jack’s sister or Pauline. I am not sure.
Mr.Griffin. That concludes the front side of page 8.
Mr.Crafard. Yes.
Mr.Griffin. On the back of page 8 there are some entries. What are those entries?
Mr.Crafard. The numbers, the phone number WH 3-9783. That doesn’t mean anything to me whatsoever. The phone number TA 7-9088. I can’t make out what is underneath it.
Mr.Griffin. Is that your handwriting?
Mr.Crafard. I don’t know for sure. It could be.
Mr.Griffin. And this telephone number doesn’t mean anything to you?
Mr.Crafard. No.
Mr.Griffin. That concludes page 8. Let’s look at page 9.
There are some entries there. Are those in your handwriting?
Mr.Crafard. No; I don’t remember every making an entry of that sort. For one thing this phone number has been gone over two or three times. These numbers $3, $3.50, that has no meaning whatsoever to me. None of this has any meaning to me whatsoever. I don’t recall ever making an entry of that sort.
Mr.Griffin. Can you ever even decipher this 18 and then a 12 and then something is written. What is that?
Mr.Crafard. It looks like M-M-L-E-S or it could be M-E-B-L-S. That is as close as I can come to it.
Mr.Griffin. There is a telephone number RI 7-5610 also on that page.
Mr.Crafard. Yes.
Mr.Griffin. And is that in your handwriting?
Mr.Crafard. I don’t believe so. It could be. It could be, I am not positive.
Mr.Griffin. That concludes page 9, doesn’t it?
Mr.Crafard. Yes.
Mr.Griffin. The front part. And there is nothing written on the back of page 9.
Mr.Crafard. No.
Mr.Griffin. And there is nothing written on the front or back of page 10.
Mr.Crafard. That is right.
Mr.Griffin. Page 11 is a half sheet of paper and there is nothing written on the front or back of what is left of that. Now on page 12 there are some items “supporter, shaving cream, after shave lotion, tooth brush, code 10 hair cream.”
Mr.Crafard. Yes.
Mr.Griffin. Are those in your handwriting?
Mr.Crafard. Yes.
Mr.Griffin. And they are personal items?
Mr.Crafard. Yes.
Mr.Griffin. That you purchased for yourself?
Mr.Crafard. Yes.
Mr.Griffin. How long after you began to work for Jack was that entry made?
Mr.Crafard. I believe about 2 or 3 weeks after I went to work for Jack.
Mr.Griffin. How long before you left?
Mr.Crafard. That would be at least 4 or 5 weeks before I left.
Mr.Griffin. That is on the front part of page 12 and there is nothing else on the front part of page 12. On the back part of page 12 there are a number of entries. Can you read those off to us.
Mr.Crafard. The name Bonnie?
Mr.Griffin. Who is Bonnie?
Mr.Crafard. She is one of the waitresses at the Carousel Club.
Mr.Griffin. What is after that?
Mr.Crafard. Salami, swiss cheese on rye with mayonnaise.
Mr.Griffin. And then what is the entry.
Mr.Crafard. Ham and cheese with mayonnaise.
Mr.Griffin. There is an M or something up ahead.
Mr.Crafard. That signifies the mayonnaise.
Mr.Griffin. I see.
Mr.Crafard. PS, I don’t know exactly what that PS meant there. There is ham and cheese with mayonnaise. I am not sure what the first part of this was.
Mr.Griffin. Would that be Betty or Becky.
Mr.Crafard. It might have been Becky, probably Becky; yes.
Mr.Griffin. Was there a girl there named Becky, a waitress?
Mr.Crafard. Yes; a waitress. Then the next entry on the page is Bill Remike.
Mr.Griffin. Who is he?
Mr.Crafard. He called in for reservations at the Carousel Club. To continue with that, Bill Remike, two couples at 9:30 they asked for good locations. The next entry on that is the name Proctor, one couple at 9 o’clock.
Mr.Griffin. That is also a reservation.
Mr.Crafard. Also a reservation.
Mr.Griffin. That concludes the back of page 12.
Mr.Crafard. Yes.
Mr.Griffin. Now page 13, there is an entry.
Mr.Crafard. The phone number WH 2-5326, Bobby Patterson.
Mr.Griffin. Who is Bobby Patterson.
Mr.Crafard. I believe he was at the Vegas Club, one of the players at the Vegas Club. I don’t have his name down. He had something to do with the band at the Vegas Club.
Mr.Griffin. Was he somebody that you saw? Had you met him?
Mr.Crafard. I met Bobby Patterson; yes.
Mr.Griffin. How many times would you say you met him?
Mr.Crafard. I believe I saw him once or twice.
Mr.Griffin. Where did you see him?
Mr.Crafard. I believe once at the Carousel Club and I believe I saw him at the Vegas Club one time.
Mr.Griffin. Do you recall now the time you saw him at the Carousel, when was that?
Mr.Crafard. He come in in the afternoon and talked to Jack.
Mr.Griffin. And do you recall how long he stayed?
Mr.Crafard. He wasn’t there very long, maybe 15 or 20 minutes at the most.
Mr.Griffin. And do you recall what he talked about with him?
Mr.Crafard. I believe it was something about, had something to do with who was in charge of the band at the Carousel or the Vegas Club or something of that sort. I am not positive.
Mr.Griffin. How about the time that you think you saw him at the Vegas Club.
Mr.Crafard. I believe one night when I went over with Jack he was there. He played at the Vegas Club. I am trying to get it straight. I think he was a guitar player. No; wait a minute, a horn player, saxophone player I believe it was. And this buddy of his, they had an act where the buddy lay down across two chairs and he stepped up on his buddy’s chest and he stood on his buddy’s chest playing his horn.
I believe that was Bobby Patterson. I am not positive.
Mr.Griffin. Could this guy have been a police officer?
Mr.Crafard. No; I am very doubtful of that.
Mr.Griffin. You didn’t know any Bobby Patterson who was a police officer?
Mr.Crafard. No.
Mr.Griffin. And there is no question that you had met a guy named Bobby Patterson.
Mr.Crafard. No question there; no.
Mr.Griffin. Would Andy Armstrong know Bobby Patterson?
Mr.Crafard. Yes; I believe he would.
Mr.Griffin. That entry is in pencil and there is a line with nothing written on it and then there is another entry under that. What is that?
Mr.Crafard. It appears to be 3902 East Waco.
Mr.Griffin. Who made that entry?
Mr.Crafard. I have no idea.
Mr.Griffin. I believe you testified before you didn’t think that was your handwriting.
Mr.Crafard. No. I would change that. I would say that was 0902 if you take a close look at it. You can see that, 0902 East Waco.
Mr.Griffin. Or could it be E Street Waco?
Mr.Crafard. It might be that, but I never made the entry, I would remember it if I saw it.
Mr.Griffin. That concludes the front part of page 13. On the back of page 13 there are some entries. What do those seem to be?
Mr.Crafard. I’d say the first one would be call Jack at the Carousel. The next one would be call Mr. Ruby at the Carousel. The next one would be Tex Lacy. It is prevedo I would say or something like that. That is all I can make out. Pre, and v-e-d-o.
Mr.Griffin. Does that mean anything to you?
Mr.Crafard. No. Were these entries “call Jack Carousel” and “Call Mr. Ruby at the Carousel,” were these your entries?
Mr.Crafard. Yes. I believe this would be my entry here, too. I am not positive.
Mr.Griffin. And were those notes for yourselfor——
Mr.Crafard. I believe it was something I told somebody else or something. I don’t even—I can’t even figure why I would write it down. I don’t know. That doesn’t really look like my handwriting. I wouldn’t have put “Call Mr. Ruby.” I’d put “Call Jack.” And this looks like “Mr.” up at the top of the page. It is something I can’t ever remember putting something like that on the top of a page without finishing it.
Mr.Griffin. That concludes the back portion of page 13. Page 14 is about a third of a sheet written in pencil.
Mr.Crafard. Yes.
Mr.Griffin. What does that say?
Mr.Crafard. I am not sure what it is.
Mr.Griffin. You indicated this is Boeing and something or other afterward.
Mr.Crafard. Yes.
Mr.Griffin. And then “Frank Fisher.”
Mr.Crafard. Yes.
Mr.Griffin. Who is Frank Fisher?
Mr.Crafard. I have no idea.
Mr.Griffin. But you indicated before that you thought that was in connection with twist boards.
Mr.Crafard. Yes; I did.
Mr.Griffin. Do you still think that?
Mr.Crafard. It could be twist boards or something to do with these dogs.
Mr.Griffin. Why do you think something to do with the dogs?
Mr.Crafard. Boeing would be possibly Boeing Aircraft and I was making arrangements to ship one of the dogs to California, so it could be something to do with one of the dogs.
Mr.Griffin. Do you recall a Frank Fisher who was a musician and who was a friend of Jack Ruby’s?
Mr.Crafard. I don’t believe I ever met him. I am not positive.
Mr.Griffin. That information doesn’t refresh your recollection about Frank Fisher at all?
Mr.Crafard. No.
Mr.Griffin. That concludes the front part of page 14. On the back of page 14 there is a telephone number.
Mr.Crafard. TA 7-2553. I don’t recall what the number would be.
Mr.Griffin. And then a notation about?
Mr.Crafard. “Tuna fish with lettuce wholewheat toast dry.”
Mr.Griffin. That concludes the back of page 14. Now on page 15 at the top there is an entry. What is that entry?
Mr.Crafard. I believe it is Charley Boland, KTVT with a number LA 6-8303.
Mr.Griffin. Do you remember making a call to that number?
Mr.Crafard. No; I don’t.
Mr.Griffin. Do you remember anything about that notation?
Mr.Crafard. No; sir. It doesn’t mean anything to me.
Mr.Griffin. How about the next telephone number on there, WE 7-3837?
Mr.Crafard. That doesn’t mean anything to me. I believe I stated before I didn’t believe I put that down.
Mr.Griffin. How about “Herman Flowers,” that doesn’t mean anything to you?
Mr.Crafard. No.
Mr.Griffin. So the entry here “Herman Flowers from Wax a Hatchy” is the last entry on the front part of page 15.
We will turn that over and on the back of page 15 there are a lot of numbers written down.
Mr.Crafard. Yes.
Mr.Griffin. What do those numbers have to do with?
Mr.Crafard. I have no idea. It is definitely not my figuring.
(Short recess taken.)
Mr.Griffin. We are on page 16 and we are looking at the first entry on the page. What does that entry appear to be?
Mr.Crafard. “K. Hamilton.”
Mr.Griffin. Does that mean anything to you?
Mr.Crafard. No; the rest of the page, I would say that it was somebody had called in for reservations.
Mr.Griffin. It says, “9—3 couples between runway.”
Mr.Crafard. Yes.
Mr.Griffin. And that page 16 is a half sheet of paper and there is nothing more on the page, and turning it over on the back part of that half sheet of paper there is an entry. What is that?
Mr.Crafard. “Mr. Miller Friday 15 people Collins Radio Co.” It would be somebody called in for reservations for 15 people.
Mr.Griffin. Now, there is another entry under that.
Mr.Crafard. “Cody-City Hall.”
Mr.Griffin. Did you know who Cody was?
Mr.Crafard. Jack had said something about it. I think he was an officer of the law. I’m not sure if he was an officer of the law or a lawyer, or what he was.
Mr.Griffin. What do you recall? Do you recall the name Joe Cody?
Mr.Crafard. No; I don’t recall the first name of the gentleman.
Mr.Griffin. What do you recall that Jack said about Cody?
Mr.Crafard. I don’t recall what Jack really did say. It had something to do with when he give it to me it was something to do with city hall, he had to see him, or he wanted me to remind him to call him, or something like that.
Mr.Griffin. When would this have been?
Mr.Crafard. I can’t recall.
Mr.Griffin. Shortly before you left?
Mr.Crafard. It might have been 2 or 3 weeks. I don’t remember.
Mr.Griffin. There is nothing further on that half sheet of paper, is there?
Mr.Crafard. No.
Mr.Griffin. Now, looking at the top of page 17 there is a number written. What is that number?
Mr.Crafard. “TA 3-8101.”
Mr.Griffin. Do you know whose number that is?
Mr.Crafard. I believe that would be the doctor’s number. I’m not sure.
Mr.Griffin. Under there is written the name “Dr. Aranoff.”
Mr.Crafard. Yes.
Mr.Griffin. Is that your writing?
Mr.Crafard. Yes.
Mr.Griffin. Do you remember who Dr. Aranoff was?
Mr.Crafard. He was Mrs. Grant’s doctor, as I recall it.
Mr.Griffin. Did you have any conversation with him?
Mr.Crafard. No; not that I can recall. I never had any conversation with the doctor.
Mr.Griffin. There is a line with nothing written on it. And the next line has what looks like a telephone number on it. What is that?
Mr.Crafard. The number “FR 4-2764.”
Mr.Griffin. Is that a Dallas telephone number?
Mr.Crafard. I am not positive of that. It might be.
Mr.Griffin. Is the number familiar to you at all?
Mr.Crafard. No; I don’t recall the number at all.
Mr.Griffin. And on the next line, what is written?
Mr.Crafard. “LA 8-4716,” the name “Debby.”
Mr.Griffin. Is the name Debby familiar to you?
Mr.Crafard. It doesn’t mean anything.
Mr.Griffin. Now, there is a line with nothing written on it, and then there is another line.
Mr.Crafard. “Overton Rd.,” and “Hawthorne” underneath, it would be Hawthorne Road Drive, I believe, “Porta Build, Inc.” company. This is all something of my own here.
Mr.Griffin. What did that have to do with?
Mr.Crafard. This is all on my own. At that time, I was going to try to get in touch with my brother-in-law who lives in Dallas, Tex., and this Overton Road, I believe, is where one of the people that I went to church with lived, out on Hawthorne Drive.
Mr.Griffin. How aboutPorta——
Mr.Crafard. I had at one time worked for Porter Building Corp.
Mr.Griffin. Is that in Dallas?
Mr.Crafard. Yes.
Mr.Griffin. When had you worked for them?
Mr.Crafard. I had worked for them the year before, the previous year.
Mr.Griffin. Were you going to contact them?
Mr.Crafard. I was thinking about, maybe seeing if they needed any men down there, or something.
Mr.Griffin. When did you make that entry?
Mr.Crafard. This was about a month before President Kennedy was assassinated.
Mr.Griffin. Did you ever contact them about a job?
Mr.Crafard. I called them one time, I believe, and the gentleman wasn’t there that I had talked to, and I never called back. The Litot Trailer Park, that is where we was staying, where my wife and I lived when we was living in Dallas.
Mr.Griffin. That is the next entry on there?
Mr.Crafard. Yes.
Mr.Griffin. How about the telephone number?
Mr.Crafard. That is the number of the Litot Trailer Park.
Mr.Griffin. That concludes page 17, the front half. On the back half of page 17 there is a notation. What is that?
Mr.Crafard. Call Buddy Heard, El Paso, dial direct, tell them that you are in town, that you are a friend and would like to get in touch with him. This is something for Andy. He was to call Buddy Heard in El Paso.
Mr.Griffin. Did Andy go to El Paso?
Mr.Crafard. No; he was to make a call; dial direct to El Paso as if he was in El Paso. I don’t remember exactly what it had something to do with. It seemed like this Buddy here was a comedian or something that Jack was trying to hire or something of that sort.
Mr.Griffin. Was Andy going to try to hire him?
Mr.Crafard. I think it was just he was doing that for Jack, trying to find out how to get in touch with him. I am not sure.
Mr.Griffin. Now, there are two lines with no writing on them, and then there is another entry. What is that?
Mr.Crafard. The name Mary.
Mr.Griffin. Do you know anybody named Mary, in Dallas?
Mr.Crafard. It has no meaning to me except the fact that my sister-in-law’s name is Mary.
Mr.Griffin. How about the telephone number under that?
Mr.Crafard. It has no meaning to me whatsoever.
Mr.Griffin. And then the next telephone number?
Mr.Crafard. It has no meaning, either.
Mr.Griffin. That last telephone number on the page is RI 1-1456, and the other telephone number on that page is DA 4-4378. That concludes the back of page 17. Turning over to page 18, there are some entries on there. What is the first entry on the page?
Mr.Crafard. It is D 2 with a dash and then the figure 175, $1.75.
Mr.Griffin. What is that?
Mr.Crafard. I am not sure unless it is maybe some draws I took that day or something.
Mr.Griffin. Are you sure that is $2 and not $200?
Mr.Crafard. It might possibly be $200.
Mr.Griffin. Did you have any dealings with anybody about spending $200?
Mr.Crafard. Not that I can recall.
Mr.Griffin. What is the notation after that?
Mr.Crafard. Jack took $20 from the bar till.
Mr.Griffin. Is that your handwriting?
Mr.Crafard. Yes.
Mr.Griffin. Do you recall when that was?
Mr.Crafard. No, sir; I don’t recall.
Mr.Griffin. Now, there is another entry after that, “Pete White Atty.”
Mr.Crafard. Pete White, attorney, Fidelity Union Life Building, with a number, RI 1-1295.
Mr.Griffin. Did you make that entry?
Mr.Crafard. Yes.
Mr.Griffin. Do you recall anything about Pete White?
Mr.Crafard. No.
Mr.Griffin. Now, what is the next entry on there?
Mr.Crafard. The next entry has to do with the twist boards. It is, “Callbeauty salon; tell them that I have a twist-a-waist exerciser,” and let them have it for $2; in quantities for $1.75 each.
Mr.Griffin. Is it fair to suggest that the $2-175 that is written at the top of the page and this same entry about $2 and $1.75 both relate to twist boards?
Mr.Crafard. Yes.
Mr.Griffin. That concludes the front part of page 18. Turning over to page 18——
Mr.Crafard. The first thing on the page is “Jimmy Rhodes can tell where to get blowups at.” Some blowups of some pictures that Jack wanted and this fellow Jimmy Rhodes could tell him where to get them at.
Mr.Griffin. Did you know Jimmy Rhodes?
Mr.Crafard. No.
Mr.Griffin. Did you ever hear of him?
Mr.Crafard. I heard Jack mention the name.
Mr.Griffin. Now, there is a line with nothing written on it, and the name?
Mr.Crafard. Mr. Wooldridge.
Mr.Griffin. Who is he?
Mr.Crafard. I am not positive.
Mr.Griffin. Do you have some idea?
Mr.Crafard. No.
Mr.Griffin. There is another line with nothing written on it. Then there is a telephone number.
Mr.Crafard. The number WH 6-6220.
Mr.Griffin. Does that number mean anything to you?
Mr.Crafard. No.
Mr.Griffin. And there is another line with nothing written on it; and the notation “8-5 tomorrow.” What did that have to do with?
Mr.Crafard. I can’t remember.
Mr.Griffin. There is another line with nothing written on it. And the name Bob Litchfield.
Mr.Crafard. Yes.
Mr.Griffin. Do you remember him?
Mr.Crafard. No, I don’t.
Mr.Griffin. And a telephone number after that.
Mr.Crafard. It is TA 7-9301.
Mr.Griffin. And then a name after that.
Mr.Crafard. Mrs. Moddy.
Mr.Griffin. Who is she?
Mr.Crafard. I believe that was his bookkeeper. I’m not sure.
Mr.Griffin. Now, there are some numbers. That concludes page 18, does it not?
Mr.Crafard. Yes.
Mr.Griffin. With the exception of a telephone number, RI 7-5311, which is right under the name Mrs. Moddy.
Mr.Crafard. I imagine it is her number.
Mr.Griffin. Now, there is some writing on the inside of the back cover. There are three telephone numbers, RI 7-7436, CH 2-3442, CH 2-4114. What do those numbers relate to, if you know?
Mr.Crafard. I don’t know.
Mr.Griffin. Now, there is another number Newton. There is a name Newton. Does that mean anything to you?
Mr.Crafard. No.
Mr.Griffin. Is that in your handwriting?
Mr.Crafard. I’m not positive of that. It doesn’t appear to be my writing.
Mr.Griffin. What is the number written under the name Newton?
Mr.Crafard. 2550.
Mr.Griffin. Is that your handwriting?
Mr.Crafard. No.
Mr.Griffin. That is not your handwriting?
Mr.Crafard. No. I don’t ever recall of having wrote any of those written in ink.
Mr.Griffin. That would be everything on that page except the RI 7-7436?
Mr.Crafard. That is right.
Mr.Griffin. Now, on the outside portion of the back cover there are some other things written on there. See if you can tell us what those are.
Mr.Crafard. The name J. L. Coxsey.
Mr.Griffin. Do you know this person?
Mr.Crafard. No. The name Coxsey is the name of one of the gentlemen I went to church with when my wife and I were living in Dallas.
Mr.Griffin. How would that be spelled?
Mr.Crafard. His name was Lee Coxsey.
Mr.Griffin. Is that the same gentleman?
Mr.Crafard. No; I don’t believe so. And there is the number under that that I can’t make out. Then there is a number EV 1-6979, and there is, it looks like LV or something. I can’t understand that a bit. There is the number FL 2-8995.
Mr.Griffin. Are those things in your handwriting?
Mr.Crafard. Yes.
Mr.Griffin. Do you recall where you left that book when you departed from Dallas?
Mr.Crafard. It was either in Jack’s office or in the room right in front of his office where I slept days. I’m not positive whether I left it on his desk or on a stand in my room.
Mr.Griffin. But in any event did you leave it in the open, or did you leave it in a drawer?
Mr.Crafard. I believe it was lying right out on top of a table or a desk, whichever it was. I’m not positive.
Mr.Griffin. Mr. Hubert do you have any questions you want to ask?
Mr.Hubert. Did I understand you to say earlier this morning that normally you kept that book on your person?
Mr.Crafard. Yes.
Mr.Hubert. You didn’t leave it hanging around?
Mr.Crafard. That is right. On occasion, Jack would be there and I would be giving him a number and he would want me to go down maybe get a paper or something like that and I’d leave the book lay on one of the tables near the phone and go down and come back up.
Mr.Hubert. Then you would get your book back?
Mr.Crafard. Yes.
Mr.Hubert. I guess it is fair to say, then, that except for those occasions, and then when you left the book, when you departed from Dallas, the book was always in your possession?
Mr.Crafard. Yes.
Mr.Hubert. Did you ever notice that some of the entries were made by someone else in that book prior to the time you left for Dallas?
Mr.Crafard. No.
Mr.Hubert. Are you willing to say that they were not made prior to the time you left for Dallas?
Mr.Crafard. That is right.
Mr.Hubert. Now, specifically, some of the entries that you have said are not in yourhandwriting——
Mr.Crafard. Yes.
Mr.Hubert. Were not in that book when you left for Dallas?
Mr.Crafard. That is right.
Mr.Hubert. What makes you sure of that?
Mr.Crafard. Nobody else had wrote in the book.
Mr.Hubert. No one had a chance to?
Mr.Crafard. That is right.
Mr.Hubert. Jack would have had a chance to on a few occasions?
Mr.Crafard. On a couple of occasions he had a notebook just like it that he carried himself.
Mr.Hubert. But you never saw these entries even after Jack had occasion to write them in?
Mr.Crafard. That is right. I never noticed them.
Mr.Hubert. And no one else had a chance to write them in?
Mr.Crafard. That is right.
Mr.Hubert. Would it have been possible that those entries were written prior to the time you left Dallas?
Mr.Crafard. I doubt it very much. It was possible, but I doubt very much if they were.
Mr.Hubert. Now, you testified this morning earlier, too, that the book seemed to be somewhat different from when you last saw it in Dallas.
Mr.Crafard. Yes.
Mr.Hubert. In what ways did it seem different?
Mr.Crafard. I believe there were more pages in it than was there.
Mr.Hubert. Pages with writing, or blank pages?
Mr.Crafard. I can’t recall whether they was all blank pages or whether they had writing on them, or what.
Mr.Hubert. Let’s put it this way: Do you recall any particular pages that are not in that book at the present time?
Mr.Crafard. No.
Mr.Hubert. You are not in a position to say, then, really, that any pages with information on them have been taken out?
Mr.Crafard. That is right.
Mr.Hubert. Your impression that the book is different than it was before you left Dallas is based then upon the size of the book?
Mr.Crafard. Yes.
Mr.Hubert. Does it seem to have fewer blank pages now than it did before?
Mr.Crafard. Yes. I thought there was half a dozen or so blank pages in the middle of the book last time I used it.
Mr.Hubert. What was your purpose in leaving the book in Dallas when you determined to go away?
Mr.Crafard. There was numbers that, to me, that had to do with this business and they didn’t mean anything to me, so I just left it there.
Mr.Hubert. Did you do that deliberately?
Mr.Crafard. Yes. I figured they was numbers that he wanted. It didn’t mean anything to me. I had no use for it.
Mr.Hubert. You wanted to see that he got them?
Mr.Crafard. Yes.
Mr.Hubert. But you don’t know where you left the book?
Mr.Crafard. I either left it—I am not positive exactly where I left it. It was either in his office on the desk or in my room on a stand where he would have saw it.
Mr.Hubert. Can you tell us why you didn’t write a note saying why you were leaving, where you would be?
Mr.Crafard. I can’t say why other than what I have said the other day.
Mr.Hubert. Were you aware that Jack would argue you into staying?
Mr.Crafard. I thought he probably would; if I called him or anything he would probably do his best to get me to stay, and I had made up my mind to leave and I didn’t want to have to argue with him.
Mr.Hubert. Of course, that wouldn’t have prevented your writing a note.
Mr.Crafard. No.
Mr.Hubert. Or of calling Armstrong.
Mr.Crafard. I didn’t even think about it a bit.
Mr.Griffin. Did you think at all about calling anybody?
Mr.Crafard. No.
Mr.Griffin. This wasn’t even a matter that you pondered as to whether you should or should not call?
Mr.Crafard. No; nothing I had thought of. I never had any idea. I didn’t feel that there was any real reason for me to call anyone.
Mr.Hubert. I think you told me that you felt grateful to Jack for what he had done for you.
Mr.Crafard. Yes.
Mr.Hubert. And that the motivation for your leaving was not any anger.
Mr.Crafard. That is right.
Mr.Hubert. On your part against him, but, rather, that you wanted to see your sister?
Mr.Crafard. That is right.
Mr.Hubert. You don’t think you owed it to him just to leave him a note?
Mr.Crafard. It just never entered my mind.
Mr.Hubert. Did it occur to you that there might be a question of how much cash you had in fact taken?
Mr.Crafard. No.
Mr.Hubert. What about the salary that was owed to you? Weren’t you interested in that?
Mr.Crafard. I didn’t even think about it.
Mr.Hubert. You didn’t say goodbye to anybody when you left Dallas?
Mr.Crafard. No.
Mr.Hubert. You didn’t advise anyone that you were leaving Dallas?
Mr.Crafard. No; other than the fact that I give the key to the boy at the parking lot and told him to tell Jack goodbye for me.
Mr.Hubert. You did send a message of goodbye to Jack through this man?
Mr.Crafard. Yes.
Mr.Hubert. Did you leave word where you would be?
Mr.Crafard. No.
Mr.Griffin. Did you leave any message to the effect that you had taken $5 out of the till?
Mr.Crafard. I left a draw slip in the till just like I always have.
Mr.Hubert. Were you in any kind of trouble there with a girl or something of that sort?
Mr.Crafard. No.
Mr.Hubert. That required you to leave as hastily as you did?
Mr.Crafard. No.
Mr.Hubert. Is it your custom to move around like that without leaving any contact points?
Mr.Crafard. Quite frequently; yes.
Mr.Hubert. Who knew you were working at the Carousel among your family or friends?
Mr.Crafard. I believe I had wrote my cousin and informed her. I believe I wrote my mother and informed her.
Mr.Hubert. This girl Gail knew it?
Mr.Crafard. That is my cousin.
Mr.Hubert. That is your cousin?
Mr.Crafard. Yes; the cousin I was referring to at this time.
Mr.Hubert. What did you expect to have happen to the mail that you got at the Carousel?
Mr.Crafard. I didn’t even realize I had left any mail. I had wrote to the people. I hadn’t been getting any answers. My mother doesn’t write an awful lot, and I hadn’t got any letters from my cousin for a little while. My sister hadn’t answered the letter I wrote to her, so Ijust——
Mr.Hubert. Weren’t you going out with a girl that you had gotten fairly close to by that time?
Mr.Crafard. She had left Texas at this time. She had left Texas and, as far as I know, went out to California.
Mr.Hubert. Was there anybody else that you were interested in there?
Mr.Crafard. No.
Mr.Hubert. Do you say to us now that in your opinion, and by this I mean your departure from Dallas under the circumstances you did depart was normal in your life?
Mr.Crafard. Somewhat, yes; most of the time I go to leave, I just take off and go.
Mr.Hubert. You have done that before?
Mr.Crafard. Yes.
Mr.Hubert. Many times?
Mr.Crafard. I’ve done it two or three times I can recall. I usually leave from around my people, if I’m around my sister I’ll say something to her thatI’m going to take off and where I plan on going. If I leave home I usually say something to the folks on where I plan on going.
Mr.Hubert. After you found out that Jack had killed Oswald, did it ever occur to you that the way in which you had left Dallas might seem odd?
Mr.Crafard. Yes; it did occur to me that it might seem very odd.
Mr.Hubert. Did you communicate that view to anyone?
Mr.Crafard. I think I said something to my sister to the effect that I thought it might be kind of suspicious the way I had left Dallas, so suddenly, without saying anything to anybody.
Mr.Hubert. Did you say that to your cousin, too?
Mr.Crafard. I don’t know for sure if I said anything to Gail about that or not.
Mr.Hubert. I think you told us that you spoke to your cousin, I am talking about Roberts now, about the fact that you had left Dallas on Saturday evening and the manner in which you left.
Mr.Crafard. I don’t recall saying anything to him about the fact that I thought it might be suspicious.
Mr.Hubert. No; I am not suggesting that. But what I want to ask you is whether he thought that the way in which you left might throw some suspicion.
Mr.Crafard. I don’t recall him saying anything about it, sir.
Mr.Hubert. Did it occur to you that perhaps one easy way to clarify your position would be to contact the FBI or some police agency and tell them where you were?
Mr.Crafard. I didn’t think about that. I figured that if they were looking for me, if I had heard anything about the fact that they were looking for me I figured I’d go to the nearest police station and tell them who I was and that they was looking for me. But that is the only thing I thought about on that.
Mr.Hubert. Didn’t you rather know that they were looking for you?
Mr.Crafard. I wasn’t positive that they were. I thought they might be; yes.
Mr.Hubert. You had a pretty good idea that they might be?
Mr.Crafard. Like I say, I thought they might be looking for me but I wasn’t positive.
Mr.Hubert. Wouldn’t you want to find out positive evidence they were looking for you?
Mr.Crafard. If there had been any definite evidence they were looking for me, I would have went into the nearest police station and told them who I was.
Mr.Hubert. What do you mean by definite evidence?
Mr.Crafard. The fact I knew for sure they were. I said I just thought that they might be.
Mr.Hubert. You just told us that you thought that they might be?
Mr.Crafard. That is right; I said that I thought they might be.
Mr.Hubert. That wasn’t enough to cause youto——
Mr.Crafard. No, sir; it isn’t.
Mr.Hubert. Were you contemplating, as a matter of fact, going to some police agency prior to the time the FBI came to you?
Mr.Crafard. No; I don’t believe that I was.
Mr.Hubert. How did you expect to get this positive evidence that they were looking for you?
Mr.Crafard. I just figured if it was possible they might put something in the paper or maybe something over the radio or something and if I heard that they was looking for a young fellow that had worked for Ruby by the name of Larry or anything like that, they was looking for this young fellow that had worked for Ruby or anything, that I would have went in and told them who I was.
Mr.Hubert. I understood you said there was no radio or newspaper at your sister’s house.
Mr.Crafard. No; but I was at other people’s places that had radios.
Mr.Hubert. You expected to get the information that way?
Mr.Crafard. I didn’t stay with my sister all the time.
Mr.Hubert. So that you were making an effort to find out if they were looking for you?
Mr.Crafard. I was where I would have found out if it was so, yes, on several occasions.
Mr.Hubert. In other words, you went to listen to radio programs or TV programs with an effort to find out, among other things, whether they were looking for you?
Mr.Crafard. That is right.
Mr.Hubert. So that you might communicate with them and tell them where you were?
Mr.Crafard. That is right. I figured one thing. I hadn’t done anything wrong. I had no reason to hide from anything because I hadn’t done anything wrong, so if there had been any indication whatsoever that they was looking for me I would have walked into the nearest police station and turned myself in.
Mr.Griffin. Did you feel that anybody else had done anything wrong?
Mr.Crafard. No. I knew from what I had heard that Ruby had killed, shot Oswald, I knew it was wrong. Like I say, I mean I had no idea that anybody else connected with him had done anything.
Mr.Hubert. What made you think in the first place that there might be some suspicion cast upon you?
Mr.Crafard. Well, the way I left, after I found out that Ruby shot Oswald, the way I left, I thought just suddenly like that, didn’t leave any word to anybody where I was going or anything.
Mr.Hubert. How would that connect you with the killing of Oswald?
Mr.Crafard. I had been working for Ruby. He had shot Oswald. It could be kind of insinuating circumstances why I left and everything like that.
Mr.Hubert. But you had left before Oswald was shot?
Mr.Crafard. Yes; I had left before Oswald was shot.
Mr.Hubert. So that really your concern was not that they would connect you with the killing of Oswald?
Mr.Crafard. No.
Mr.Hubert. Butthat——
Mr.Crafard. They might think that I had done something wrong, myself.
Mr.Hubert. With reference to what?
Mr.Crafard. To anything. I mean breaking the law in any way.
Mr.Hubert. With reference to the shooting of the President, too?
Mr.Crafard. How is that?
Mr.Hubert. With reference to shooting of the President?
Mr.Crafard. Well, it could be that they might have thought I was involved in that in some way or something like that, and I just figured if they thought, you know, the way I had left if they had any idea at all that would further their idea, I mean if they had any idea that any of Ruby’s employees were involved in it, that would further the idea that I had been involved in this, in it.
Mr.Hubert. You actually thought about that?
Mr.Crafard. Yes; Ifelt——
Mr.Hubert. That was the thing that gave you concern and that is what you talked to your sister about?
Mr.Crafard. Yes; it kind of bothered me a little bit.
Mr.Hubert. Couldn’t you have ended the bother by going to the nearest police force?
Mr.Crafard. I probably could have. I never even thought about going in like that, just walking in and talking to them, asking them about it or anything.
Mr.Griffin. Did you fear when you left Dallas that things might be happening which would get you in trouble?
Mr.Crafard. No; it never entered my mind. I figured that that would be the end of things when they had caught Oswald, I kind of figured that would be the end of it and he would come to trial.
Mr.Griffin. Did you fear that things might be happening which would get Jack or other people you knew in trouble?
Mr.Crafard. No; I didn’t.
Mr.Hubert. Let’s put it point blank to you, Larry. Did you think that possibly Ruby or someone among his friends might have had something to do with this and the best thing for you to do as an innocent person was to get out of there?
Mr.Crafard. No, sir; I didn’t, because if I had had the slightest idea that him or anybody he knew had anything to do with it, the first thing I would have done would have been to walk right straight down to the police station.
Mr.Hubert. Then when you found out that he had killed Oswald, didn’t it occur to you that he might be killing Oswald to remove the President’s murderer?
Mr.Crafard. I don’t believe it really did occur to me at that time; no.
Mr.Hubert. You see the point now, don’t you?
Mr.Crafard. Yes; I understand what you are trying to say. But later we discussed the fact that Oswald and Ruby might have been connected, as I believe everybody else has.