"In tempi men' leggiadri e più ferociS'appiccavan' i ladri in sulle croci,Ma in tempi men' feroci e più leggiadriS'appiccano croci in sopra ladri."
"In tempi men' leggiadri e più feroci
S'appiccavan' i ladri in sulle croci,
Ma in tempi men' feroci e più leggiadri
S'appiccano croci in sopra ladri."
L. H. J. T.
—Sir John Fenner, by will dated 1633, desired his executors to employ monies in purchasing lands (which has since produced 620l.per annum, but now less than that amount), the rent to be laid out every Easter in buying Bibles and distributing money for and amongst the poor of ten parishes in the metropolis. I shall feel thankful for any information relating to that benevolent gentleman communicated either through your columns, or to me at 35. Gifford Street, Kingsland Road, London.
HENRYEDWARDS,(a Subscriber from the beginning).
—I have heard a story respecting the superstition in which sailors hold Friday as a day of departure. To disabuse them of this superstition, a ship—so runs the tale—was laid down on Friday; launched on a Friday; commanded by a captain named Friday; sailed on a Friday; and—so runs the story—was never heard of afterwards!
Is there—I believe not—any truth in this tradition; and where may the earliest allusion to it be found.
?
—In a minister's account of the time of Edward II., relating to Caernarvonshire, is an entry for rent received "de terra morosa et knarres:" the word is sometimes writtengnarres. What does it mean? I believe in Norfolk and in other counties a description of scrubby woodland is known by the name ofcarrs(Query spelling). We findKnares-borough in Yorkshire, andKnares-dale in Northumberland,Nar-borough in Leicester,Nar-burgh andNar-ford in Norfolk. Taking thento be the expressive letter, we have perhaps specimens of its softened sound in the names ofSnare-hill,Snar-gate,Snares-brook, &c., in various counties. Some of your etymological readers may be able to explain the derivation of these names, should they be considered to come from a common source, and with that the sentence quoted above.
J. BT.
—May I hope for a reply to my Queries—in what court poor Sir John Cheke was forced to sit beside Bishop Bonner, at the trials of the martyrs? and at whose trials he was present? His sad recantation took place in the year 1556, and his death, from a broken heart, in the year following; so that his being compelled to sit on the bench beside Bonner, must have been at the trials which took place between those two dates. I have Foxe, Fuller, and Strype's memoirs of Sir John Cheke; but I shall be grateful for any information about him from any other old volumes, or from private sources.
C. B. T.
—What authority has Gwillim, in hisDisplay of Heraldrie, p. 258., for asserting—
"He beareth argent a chevron between three seals, feet erected, sable erased. These armes doe pertaine to the towne of Yarmouth in Norfolk."
C. I. P.
Gt. Yarmouth.
—This is a favourite expression both with speakers and with writers. Is it a quotation? If so, I should be glad to learn whence it comes. It can scarcely be part of a verse, inasmuch as it contains a violation of a well-known metrical canon: finalashort beforesc.
W. S.
Linwood.
—What is the origin and exact meaning of the wordbullin this phrase? I made a note of the passage in which I found it, thinking that it might possibly be connected in some way with Milton's "bullish." (See vol. iii., p. 241; vol. iv., p. 394.)
"On the third day after my departure from Zashiversk, my liquor was at an end from the effects of a very common sort of leak—it had been tapped too often. I could do nothing butbullthe barrel, that is, put a little water into it, and so preserve at least the appearance of vodkey."—Cochrane'sNarrative of a Pedestrian Journey through Russia and Siberian Tartary, during the years 1820-23. [Murray, 1824, one vol. 8vo.] p. 225.
C. FORBES.
Temple.
—What is the meaning of the following legend, which I find on an old brass or copper coin of extreme thinness, and of the size of a shilling:—
"HANNS . KRAVWINCKEL . IN . NVR ."
"HANNS . KRAVWINCKEL . IN . NVR ."
encircling three crowns disposed in a circle with fleur de lis intervening.
"GOTS . REICH . BLIBT . EWICK . E ."
"GOTS . REICH . BLIBT . EWICK . E ."
encircling an emblem of Trinity, in the interior of which is a ball and cross.
There are no figures to indicate a date, but I conclude it belongs to the time of the Hanseatic league.
H. C. K.
—Can any of your musical readers inform me whether the treatise on the material media of the musical art, promised by Weber in hisTheory of Musical Composition, and which he therein frequently refers to, has ever yet made its appearance; and if so, whether any English translation has been published?
T. L. L.
—I am an attorney; one of my predecessors in business was steward of Clement's Inn. He died, and his partner removed from the Inn to the City. I was articled to the partner, and I recollect that up to the time of his death, which occurred in 1837, he used to receive an annual visit from the minor officials of the inn, beadle, porter, &c., who presented four oranges, and received in return half a guinea. I used generally to suck the oranges, but it never entered my head to inquire what was the origin of the custom. You have probably a correspondent or reader amongst the "ancients" of the venerable society I have mentioned, who may be able to trace the origin of the custom which gave me the privilege of sucking the oranges in question.
Q. D.
—In Vol. iii., p. 432. of "N. & Q." there is a quotation from theGentleman's Magazine, 1791, in which Queen Elizabeth is mentioned as of a "swarthycomplexion." I had always thought of her as fair. Miss Strickland speaks of her "faircomplexion," and cites De Maurier, who writes of her "whitehands:" in addition to which, does not her "light auburn hair" betoken a light complexion? In one of your late numbers a madrigal is given wherein she is sung as "fairOriana." This, however, may be no allusion to colour of complexion, but merely the poetic use of the word as synonymous with beautiful. How does the fact stand?
W. T. M.
Victoria, Hong Kong, Dec. 27, 1851.
—I should be glad if any of your correspondents could favour me with any information relative to the "Black Book of Paisley," so often quoted by Scottish historical writers as the Chronicon Clugniense, being a chronicle of the public affairs and remarkable events kept by the monks of that monastery, and if the same or any part thereof has been reprinted by any of our societies or clubs. It was said to have been recovered at Rome by Sir Robert Spottiswoode, along with other records and MSS. of the Roman Catholic Church, which had been carried abroad from the Scottish monasteries at the Reformation.
ABERDONIENSIS.
—This book, Mr. Whitbread stated in his place in the House of Commons in 1812, was published, and afterwards suppressed, and bought up at an immense expense, some holders receiving 500l., and some as high as 2000l.for their copies. Is this correct?
ELGINENSIS.
—Frith the Martyr, and Dean Comber, were born in Westerham. Can any antiquary of the district point out the exact spot? I have often asked, but ever unsuccessfully; and I now regret that I did not inquire of Mr. Streatfeild, who resided in the parish, and whom I knew.
H. G. D.
—These words occur in Kemble'sAng.-Sax. Charters, Nos. 567. and 652. The first was an islet in Somersetshire; the latter were in Hants. Were theBéocera GentIrish, and if so, whence the name?
B. WILLIAMS.
—I should esteem it a favour if any of your correspondents could inform me whether the original grants made in Hen. VIII. and Edw. VI. reigns, of the property of dissolved religious establishments, are to be met with in the Augmentation Office, and if not, where? as it would greatly assist in tracing titles to property formerly belonging to those establishments, and which passed from the hands of the crown to different individuals at those periods.
J. N. CHADWICK.
[All grants from the crown pass under letters patent, which are enrolled on the patent rolls. Those for the time of Hen. VIII. and Edw. VI. are in the RollsChapel, Chancery Lane, and can be readily searched if the name of grantee and date is known. In the Augmentation Office, a branch of the Carlton Ride Record Office, are the "particulars" for those grants, which give considerable information. See 8th Report of the Deputy-keeper of the Public Records.]
—Who were the five divines who united their powers in writing against episcopacy under the above title, which is said to be composed of the initial letters of their names?
O. P. Q.
[They wereStephenMarshall,EdmundCalamy,ThomasYoung,MatthewNewcomen, andWilliamSpurstow: their followers were calledSmectymnuans. See Butler'sHudibras, with Grey's notes, Part I, canto iii. line 1166.]
Bartholomæo degli Albizzi, or Bartholomew of Pisa, who wrote the famous BOOK OFCONFORMITIES, was born at Rivano in Tuscany, and died in 1401. Mr. Rose's admirableBiographical Dict.(12 vols. 8vo. 1850) contains the following passage relative to this work, under the name Albizzi:—
"The LIBERCONFORMITATUMwas first printed at Venice, folio, without date or printer's name; 2nd edition, folio, black letter, Milan, 1510; 3rd, Milan, 1513. In 1590, Father Bucchi (a Franciscan) published another edition atBologna, but with considerable curtailment; and as it did not sell, it was republished in 1620with the first two leaves changed, in order to disguise it.
"The approbation of the Chapter of the Order is found in this edition, bearing date Aug. 2, 1399. Tiraboschi (i. 181.), who is very angry with MARCHANDfor occupying SIXTEENCOLUMNS OF THEDICT. HIST. WITH ANENUMERATION OF THEEDITIONS OF THISWORK ANDANSWERS TO IT, should have remembered that after such an approbation, it is no longer the mere work of an individual.
"In 1632, it was published atColognewith a new title; and in 1658 atLiege, but very much altered. Wading (Bibl. Ord. Min.) has given a catalogue of Albizzi's other works, which has been copied by Casimir, Oudin, and Fabricius."
A Venice edition, then, it would appear according to this writer, is theoriginal edition; and that of Milan, 1510, is but thesecond. Will any one give me some accurate information on this point? Brunet and the publishers of the various editions of "L'Alcoran," seem quite ignorant of the existence of any edition previous to that of Milan, 1510.
DR. ERASMUSALBER, the compiler of theAlcoranus Franciscorum, was "a warm friend and violent partizan of Luther; his chief characteristic is severe, but broad, coarse satire."
The Amsterdam edition of 1734 commences the 1st vol. with a preface in French, by Conrad Badius, which is succeeded by one from Luther in Latin: at the end of the same vol. occurs another and longerPræfatio Martini Lutheri, Germanico libello præfixa utcumque translata; then followTypographus Lectori, andEx Epistola Erasmi Alberi, qui hunc libellum ex detestando illo Conformitatum volumine contexuit.
To any one who is acquainted with theBook of Conformities, which has been justly denominated THESAURUSBLASPHEMIÆ, the propriety and aptness of the title of THEFRANCISCANKORANis very obvious. Luther (and there seems no reason to doubt the genuineness of these prefaces), after commenting on the expressions used in this book with reference to our Blessed Lord, and the great exemplar of the "minors" and "minims," observes:
"Hinc sequitur quod Christus veluti figura Francisci, nihil fit amplius: idQUODTURCISENTIUNT.At figuratus ille Franciscus, omnia est in omnibus. Ex quo jam altera hæresis manat, quod Franciscum, ut verum Messiam, Mediatorem, Advocatum ac Patronum invocunt, et vitam æternam ab ipso petunt."
ALBER, after quoting some of theConformities, adds—
"Et, ut paucis dicam, Christus nihil fecit quod non item Franciscus fecerit, et longe plura etiam. Itaque et in Alcorano Franciscanorum sæpe reperitur, Franciscum Christo esseSIMILEM.Nam quod sitSUPRACHRISTUM,perquam vellent quidem dicere, sed diabolis metuit ne nimium se prodat et agnosci possit."
The mere facts of this monstrous book having beenwritten,approvedby the highest authority, and for acentury and a halfreceiving universal applause (with the exception perhaps of a few jealous Dominicans), nay, the meretolerationof such a book, would have been amply sufficient to show the corruption of the Western Church, and call loudly for reformation. This—
"Abominationem[says Luther]quam non ipsi solum exercuerunt ac in summo pretio habuerunt, sed ipse etiam Sanctissimus eam confirmavit, commendavit, privilegiis ornavit, ac omnibus Christe fidelibus pro focis et aris defendendam mandavit."
Southey says:
"I believe the Franciscans designed to follow the example of the Moslem, and supersede Jesus Christ. At one time they attempted to leave off the vulgar æra, and actually dated from the infliction of the Five Wounds."
In the Romish calendar, the 17th of September is dedicated to "Impressio Stigm. S. Francis." Of the Geneva editions of the Cordelier Alcoran, Brunet (last edition) mentions 1556, 1560, and 1578. In Leslie's Catalogue for 1852, under the heading "Luther," the Geneva edition of 1556 occurs; the title is worth giving:
"L'Alcoran des Cordeliers, tant en Latin qu'en François; c'est à dire, la mer des blasphèmes et mensonges de cest idole stigmatizé qu'on appelle S. François, recueilli par le Docteur M. Luther, du livre des Conformitez de ce beau S. François, imprimé à Milan l'an 1510, et nouvellement traduit, 12mo. Geneve, 1556."
The same Catalogue advertises a fine copy of Father Bucchi'sLiber Aureus, 1590.
Brunet refers to the following work in reference to theAlcoranus:
"La Guerre Séraphique, ou histoire des périls qu'a courus la barbe des Capucins contre les violentes attaques des Cordeliers. La Haye, 1740, in 12.—Ce volume se joint à l'Alcoran des Cordeliers."
He also speaks of a work by a certain Spaniard, named Father PIERRE DEALVA, which, for the vast number of points ofconformitybetween our Lord and St. Francis adduced, and the amazing fecundity of invention and fertility of imagination displayed, completely throws BARTHOLOMEW OFPISAinto the shade; it is entitled—
"Naturæ prodigium et gratiæ portentum hoc est Seraphici P. Francisci vitæ acta ad Christi Domini vitam et mortem regulata et coaptata a P. Petro de Alva et Astorga. Matriti, 1651, folio."
To conclude with a Query: Is the book called "FIORETTI" an Italian translation of the "BOOK OFCONFORMITIES?" The title would lead one to suppose it.
"FIORETTI. Opera gentilissima et utilissima a tutti li fideli Christiani laqual se chiama LIFIORETTIde Misser Santo Francesco asemiliativa a la vita et alla passion de JESUCHRISTOe tutte le soe sancti vertige. Lunardo Longo rector de la giesia de Sancto Paulo de Vincenza, curendo lano.M.CCCCLXXVI. in 4."
The second edition bears date, Venexia in caxa di Nicolo GirardengoM.CCCCLXXX. 4to.; the third, Perouse, 1481, 4to.
MARICONDA.
Feb. 11. 1852.
There is clearly some inaccuracy in the details of my statement, which I am obliged to LORDBRAYBROOKEand to G. for pointing out, and which, perhaps, they may help to clear up. The main fact is admitted: that "twoKnights of the Garter covered the period from 1684 to 1820;" and George IV.'s assertion, that "he had given away a Garter that had been given but once since the reign of Charles II.," I myself heard, though I unluckily did not make a "Note" of it. This could apply to nothing but the cases of the Duke of Somerset and George III. Whether George IV. was misinformed as to the details on which he founded his assertion, I know not; but it is unlikely: and that after a lapse of about thirty years I may have confounded theRegencywith theAccession, andLord Moirawith theDuke of Buckingham, I will not deny; for it seems that I have done one or the other, though without any effect on the main point. As to G.'s objection, that of several Garters disposed of on the same day in 1745. The Duke of Somerset's did not fall to Prince George. I have not Beltz to refer to; but it strikes me as possible this may admit of explanation: because, although Prince George wasnominatedfirst in the batch, it happened that he wasinvestedthe last; indeed not till the dayafterall the others: so that he might have received thebadgeof the Duke of Somerset. Your readers are aware that thebadgesare not the private property of the knights, but are alwaysreturnedinto the hands of thesovereign, and that the same badge is delivered to successive knights; so that it is probable that George III., on becoming sovereign, kept in his own possession the badge he had originally received, and that this identical badge George IV. disposed of as he stated, whether to the Duke of Buckingham, or, as the impression on my memory still is, Lord Moira.
C.
Traditions from Remote Periods.—From time to time notices have appeared in "N. & Q." of "remote events brought down to our own times through few links:" to these, if you should think it merits insertion, I beg to contribute the following Note from Chambers'sLife and Works of Burns, vol. iii. p. 205. In the address to Mr. Maxwell, of Terraughty, on his birthday (p. 204.), Burns says, 7th line:
"This day[4]thou metes threescore eleven,"
"This day[4]thou metes threescore eleven,"
and Mr. Chambers remarks:
"The person addressed in these verses, John Maxwell, Esq., of Terraughty and Munches, was a leading public man in the county of Dumfries. He was on several accounts very remarkable, but particularly for his birth, and the proximity into which his family history brings us with events comparatively remote; for Mr. Maxwell was grandson's grandson, and no more, to the gallant and faithful Lord Herries, who on bended knees entreated Queen Mary to prosecute Bothwell as the murderer of her husband, and who subsequently fought for her at Langside. One cannot learn without a pleasing kind of surprise, that a relation in the fifth degree of one who wasWarden of the West Marches in 1545, should have lived to the close of the French Revolution wars, which was the case of Mr. Maxwell, for he died inJanuary 1814."
[4]Middle of December, 1791.
C. D. LAMONT.
Greenock.
There is now living in the village of Headley, Hants, a man whose father was born in the time (though not in the reign) of James II.; viz. 1697.As a curious instance of the space of time included in the lives of a father and son (although there is nothing wonderful in the number of years attained by either separately), I have thought it worth recording in "N. & Q." I may add that the age of the man now living at Headley is eighty-three, and he was born when his father was seventy-two years old.
L. G.
Happening to have made notes from time to time of several such instances, I beg to present them to the readers of "N. & Q.":—
Sixty-two Children:—
"A weaver in Scotland had by one woman 62 children, all living till they were baptized, of wchther wer but fower daughters onely who lived till they were women, and 46 sonns, all attaining to man's estate. During the time of this fruitfullnes in the woman, the husband, at her importunity, absented himself from her for the space of 5 years together, serving as a soldier under the command of Captaine Selby in the Low Countries. After his return home his wife was againe delivered of three children at a birth, and so in due time continued in such births till, through bearing, she became impotent. The certainty of this relation I had from John Delavall of Northumb', Esq., who, ann. 1630, rid about 30 miles beyond Edenburrough to see this fruitfull couple, who were both then living. Ther statures and features he described to me then more fully. Ther was not any of the children then abiding with ther parents. Sir John Bowes & 3 other men of qualitie have taken at severall times ten of ther children apeece from them, and brought them up. The rest wer disposed of by the other English & Scottish gents, amongst wch3 or 4 out of them are now alive & abiding at Newcastle, 1630."
Collectanea Topog. et Geneal.vol. iv. p. 53. from MS. Harl. 980. f. 74.
Thirty-nine Children:—
"In the year 1698, when Thomas Greenhill, surgeon to Henry Duke of Norfolk (son of William Greenhill of Greenhill in Middx. by Elizabeth, daughter of John Jones of London) petitioned the Earl Marshal as follows: 'That in consideration of your petitioner being the 7th son & 39th child of one father & mother, your Grace would be pleased to signalise it by some particular remark or augmentation in his coat of Arms, to transmit to posterity so uncommon a thing.' The confirmation of the arms contains no reference to the fact."
Collectanea Topogr. et Genealogica, vol. iv. p. 53.
Thirty-five Children:—
"A woman in Vere Street of the 35th child by one husband."—Gentleman's Magazine, 1736, p. 683.
Thirty Children.—In theGentleman's Magazinefor Feb. 1743, is recorded the death of Mrs. Agnes Milbourne, who was aged 106, and had thirty children.
Twenty-nine Children.—In that for 1738:—
"Nov. 15. Mr. Thomas Rogers, a 'Change-Broker, who had by his wife 29 children, born and christen'd."
Twenty-seven Children.—Mr. Richetts, father of the present Earl St. Vincent, was the twenty-third of twenty-seven children by the same mother.
J. G. N.
In theLondon Medical Journal, vol. x. for the year 1789, art. vi., "A remarkable case of numerous births, with observations by Maxwell Garthmore, M.D., F.R.S. & S.A.: in a Letter to Sir Joseph Banks, Bart., P.R.S.," Dr. G. mentions an account given formerly in theJournal des Sçavans, by M. Seignette, physician at Rochelle, of a woman of Saintonge who was at one birth delivered of nine well-formed children so far advanced that their sexes could be discovered.
In theGentleman's Magazine, vol. lii. p. 376., is a curious legend of a woman giving birth to 365 children at once: all the males were baptised and named John, and all the females Elizabeth. The mother and 365 children died the same day.
In theMorning Advertiserfor Dec. 1, 1851, is an account of a woman at Ballygunge, near Calcutta, being delivered of twenty-one children at once, all boys.
Nov. 14th, 1736. A woman in Vere Street, of her thirty-fifth child, by one husband. (Gentleman's Magazine, vol. vi. p. 683.)
July 31st, 1781. At Kirton-le-Moor, in Cumberland, a man and his wife, and thirty children, the youngest of whom was between two and three years old, lately walked to church to the christening of the thirty-first child. (Gentleman's Magazine, vol. li. p. 388.)
Died at Grantham, Mrs. Lelly, a widow lady of that town. She was twice mother of twenty-two children. (Gentleman's Magazine, vol. lii. p. 309.)
Eighty-seven children by two wives: sixty-nine by first, eighteen by second. (Gentleman's Magazine, vol. liii. p. 753.)
Seventy-two children by two wives, and a mother of thirty-two children. (Gentleman's Magazine, vol. lix. pp. 733-4.) To which is appended the following note by the editor:
"The following epitaph, commemorating an instance of remarkable fecundity, is inserted by Mr. Pennant in hisJourney to Snowdon: 'Here lyeth the body of Nicholas Hookes, of Conway, Gent., who was the forty-first child of his father, William Hookes, Esq., by Alice his wife, and the father of twenty-seven children, who died the 20th day of March, 1637.'"
PANTAGRUEL.
It seems there can be no doubt that Richard de Clare, second Earl of Pembroke, surnamedStrongbow, was eldest son of Gilbert de Clare, first Earl of Pembroke: which last was second son of Gilbert de Tonebrugge. That Strongbow's father's name was Gilbert is proved from a charter in which he (the father) made a grant of the church of Everton to the priory of St. Neot, commencing "Gilbertus, filius G. Comes de Penbroc," &c. (SeeDugdale.) And I find this confirmed by a valuable old pedigree in the possession of a member of my family (datecir.1620), which was admitted as principal evidence, and examined, in a successful suit in the Court of Chancery, in the latter half of the last century; in which pedigree the De Clares are introduced among the "præclarissimæ affinitates." An extract would be needless, and occupy your valuable space to no purpose.
To account for the singularity mentioned by your correspondent in the charter of Strongbow, I can make but these two suggestions: either the reading is correct,—in which case the true name of the first Earl of Pembroke wasRichard Gilbert, which, I need hardly say, is possible, notwithstanding the existence of his elder brother Richard; or, the reading is incorrect, in which case the mistake probably arose from the writer, notwithstanding he had written "Comes Ric'" previously, by a natural oversight inserting it again after "fil," intending to write, "Comes Ric' fil Gisleb'ti."
It may be an admission of ignorance on my part, but I am unable to find in any of the authorities I have at hand, that Strongbow, Earl of Pembroke, was, as your correspondent states him to have been, alsoEarl of Chepstow. Will he be kind enough to give me a reference?
In the above-mentioned pedigree the arms of the De Clares are given down to Strongbow—or, three chevrons gules; while the bearing of the latter isor, five chevrons gules. Burke, in hisExtinct Peerage, gives the arms of both the De Clares, Earls of Pembroke,or three chevrons gules, a lable of five points az.; while in another authority, Berry'sEncycl., I find for the two De Clares, Earls of Pembroke, two widely different coats, viz.ar. on a chief az. three crosses pattée fitchée of the field; andor, three chevrons gules, a crescent az.Can any of your heraldic correspondents account for these various bearings?
H. C. K.
—— Rectory, Hereford.
MR. WM. SIDNEYGIBSONhas correctly referred to the authority for this designation; but it may be well, before pursuing the inquiry, to place before the reader the very words of the register of the Grey Friars of London:
"Versus quasi medium chori jacet dominus Willelmus Fitzwarryn Baro, et Isabella uxor sua quondam Regina Man."
Collectanea Top. et Geneal.v. 278.
MR. GIBSONhas also correctly added, that in my note to this entry I have not afforded any information about the lady Isabel. It is true that I searched for such information in vain; and the information I gave in lieu was the date of the death of William Lord Fitz-Warine, viz., the 35 Edw. III. (1361), and the name of the lady he is known from record (Ex. 22 Edw. III. no. 39.), to have married, namely,Amicia, daughter and heir of Sir Henry de Haddon. As there is not the slightest ground for imagining that this Amicia was ever "Queen of Man," it must therefore be concluded, supposing that the register of the Grey Friars gives a faithful reflection of the epitaph, that the Lord Fitz-Warine had a second wife. I am not inclined to adopt MR. GIBSON'Ssuggestion that this lady wasSibilla, daughter of William de Montacute, first Earl of Salisbury, because the lordship of Man descended to the second earl, and he possessed it until the 16 Ric. II. (1393). It seems therefore that the only "Queen of Man" that could be the wife of William Lord Fitz-Warine, must have been the widow of the first Earl of Salisbury, who died in 1343. The wife of that earl and the mother of his heir wasKatharine, daughter of William Lord Granson, as Mr. Beltz gives that name, correcting the more prevalent form of Grandison. The question therefore to be decided is—Did this lady survive him, or did he marry a second wife namedIsabella? In either case, I think it is clear that the lady buried at the Grey Friars was the Dowager Countess of Salisbury. Mr. Beltz has given a memoir of Sir William Fitz-Warine in hisMemorials of the Garter, but he was not aware of the baron's connexion with "the Queen of Man." Dying of the plague on the 28th Oct. 1361, it was probably in haste that his body was interred in the church of the Grey Friars, and the queen may have fallen a victim to the same pestilence. There is an effigy in the church at Wantage which is ascribed to this Lord Fitz-Warine; and it is accompanied by one of a lady, probably Amicia Haddon, on whose death, some time before his own, that monument may have been erected. These effigies are engraved in the series by Hollis. There is a peculiarity attending the barony of this William Fitz-Warine. He was first summoned by writ in 1342 [qu. if 1343, and thus after his marriage with the Dowager Countess of Salisbury?]; and though he left a son and heir, Sir Ivo Fitz-Warine, that son was never summoned to parliament. A similar course has been observed in other cases where the title to a barony wasjure uxoris, in which condition may be included the state of the second husband of a countess, there being instances of men in that position being summoned to parliamentas barons, whilst the countesses their wives were living, and no longer. Thus it is possible that Fitz-Warine was summoned, because he had married the countess and "queen;" and his son Ivo was not summoned, because he was the son of Amicia Haddon.
With regard to the titles of King or Queen of Man, they do not appear to be recognised by records, but merely by the chroniclers. Dugdale has quoted from the history of Thomas de la Marc, that William, Earl Of Salisbury, having in 16 Edw. III. (1342) conquered the Isle of Man (from the Scots), the king gave him the inheritance, andcrowned him king thereof; and Walsingham and Otterbourne (p. 153.) relate that the Vice-Chamberlaine, Sir William Scrope, in 16 Ric. II. (1393) purchased the sovereignty of the Isle of Mancum corona. But the worddominus, notrex, is employed in Latin records, andseigneurin French. On the seal of the first Earl of Salisbury he is styleddominus de dynbi et mannie, and on his countersealdominus de man et de dynbi; and on a counter or privy seal of the second earl he is styleddominus mannie et de dynbi(i.e.Denbigh, not "Derby," as misprinted in p. 132.antea). These seals have been recently engraved in the Salisbury volume of the Archæological Institute. The second earl in his will, made the 20th April, 1397, styles himself "Earl of Salisbury and Lord of the Isles of Man and Wiht," although he had then sold the lordship of Man some years before. In the Harleian charters is a bond from the purchaser to the famous Sir Richard Whityngton, citizen and mercer of London, dated 29th Aug. 1393, in which he is described as "William le Scrope, Seigneur de Man et des Isles;" and in the truce with France on the 10th March, 1394, "Monsieur Gwilliam le Scrope" is recorded to have assented to the proceedings "pour le seigneury de Man," as one of thealliesof the King of England. (Fœdera, iii. part iv. p. 95.) It is not easy to determine when or where these potent subjects really assumed the rank or title of "king" and "queen;" and it must be recollected that the King of England himself was at the same period content to call himself only "Lord of Ireland," as the Earl of Salisbury was "Lord of Man."
It may stimulate MR. GIBSON, as a north countryman, to further researches in this matter to remind him that it is to Katharine, Countess of Salisbury, at the Castle of Wark in Northumberland, that Mr. Beltz has traced the anecdote related by Froissart of the especial admiration which King Edward III. conceived for a Countess of Salisbury; connected with which are some of the legendary stories of the origin of the Order of the Garter (seeMemorials of the Garter, pp. 63. et seq.). It would be a remarkable fact to ascertain that the object of the king's gallantry became afterwards even a nominal queen.
JOHNGOUGHNICHOLS.
—The town of Kingston-upon-Hull was founded by King Edward I., when he returned from Scotland, through Yorkshire, in 1299, and it may be seen in Hollar's map of the town,as it was in 1640, that the ground plan coincides exactly with MR.PARKER'Sdescription of the "Villes Anglaises" in France.
F. HH.
—Pasquier is the great author originally in her favour. Hallam refers also to Vellay,Hist. de France, tom. i. on one side, and a dissertation by Gaillard in theMemoirs of the Academy of Inscriptions, tom. xxx. on the other. Hallam himself was against her. In hisSupplement, p. 19., he is rather undecided.
Michelet and Sismondi do not seem to defend her; nor, I believe, Guizot, who considers there was a constant struggle between the Frank and Roman inhabitants, and that Fredegonde and Brunéhaut were the heads and types respectively of the two races, and their respective principles of government.
C. B.
—The criticisms of your correspondent RECHABITEare of so singular a character, that I must beg him to excuse my passing over,unnoticed, the first paragraph.
The second appears calculated to traduce the character of a man celebrated for his integrity, judgment, accurateness, preciseness, and skill in his sketches, &c. TheInscriptio Persepolitana, p. 333., is his own sketch: "Verum, unius descriptio tam longam mihi facessebat operam (ob loci altitudinem et solares radios permolestam) ut parum abesset, quin à ceteris abstinere coactus fuerim." (P. 332.) There were three others: "Inscriptionis quadruplex quasi tabula spectatur." Perhaps it may be one of the latter ones that RECHABITEhas seen in Niebuhr and Porter. I have not seen those works.
Next, why does RECHABITEnot say what are thetwo letterswhich I have translated as two words containingeight letters?
And now for mytheory, and Major Rawlinson's improved translation of the inscription, all together. Let the reader of "N. & Q." turn to Kæmpfer, p. 341., and he will see the procession that is described in p. 333. Does he think that Ormazd, Xerxes, Darius, or Achæmenes is there? I assure him that they are not mentioned. In fact, the engravings were made long before the date 694B.C., when Achæmenes began his reign. But it appears that an Egyptian reed is thought sufficient to prop up a structure raised in the sand.
Finally, my great desire is, that some spirited person would take up the matter, and let the old and new system be tried by proper tests; and let the conquered have a decent burial.
T. R. BROWN.
Southwick, near Oundle.
—Notwithstanding the high legal tone which pervades the replies you have received on Parish Registers, I cannot acquiesce in the conclusion that "the genealogical or archæological inquirer has in general no right to inspect," much less to copy, the Register Books. What object could there be in enforcing thekeepingand preservation of registers by the officiating ministers, even under the pain of transportation for fourteen years of any person wilfully injuring them, and the cost to parishes for providing iron chests, except it be "for the inspection of persons desirous to make search therein, and obtain copies from and out of the same." (52 Geo. III. cap. 146.) And by the act just quoted, the minister and the public are bound with regard to fees due on searching, and for copies. He is entitled "to all due legal andaccustomedfees on such occasions, and all powers and remedies for recovery thereof." And by the 49th section of a more recent Registration Act (6 & 7 Wm. IV.), registers of baptisms and burials may still be kept, and, by inference, the fees are included; because by the 35th section the fees for the examination of the registers created by this last act are defined; but then they apply only to those registers, the power of that act being only prospective, not retrospective.
The following note, made many years ago, from Phillip'sLaw of Evidence(which, from the number of editions it has passed through, must be supposed to be a work of considerable weight), will probably set the question at rest, as he refers to adjudged cases:
"Parish registers are public books, and persons interested in them have a right to inspect and take copies of such parts as relate to their interest.—Geeryv.Hopkins, 2Lord Raym.850.; Warrinerv.Giles, 2Stra.954.; Mayor of Lond.v.Swinhead, 1Barnardist.454."
The reply, therefore, to the Query of D. (Vol. iv., p. 474.) seems to be, that any person has a right to consult the parish registers, notgratuitously, but on payment of theaccustomedfee.
H. T. ELLACOMBE.
Clyst St. George.
It may be of use to D. (Rotherfield), to be referred to theJustice of the Peacefor 31st January, 1852, wherein, at p. 76., he will find an opinion given, that, for the search the clergyman has a right to charge 1s.and no more, whatever may be the number of names, unless the search extended over a period of more than one year, when he would be entitled to 6d.extra for every additional year.
REGEDONUM.
—Some fancy of this kind at Mr. Weld's of Lulworth Castle, in Dorsetshire, exaggerated or highly coloured by O'Keefe, was supposed to afford the title and principal incident of his extravagant but laughable comedy ofThe London Hermit; or, Rambles in Dorsetshire, first played in 1793, with great success, and revived (cut down to a two-act farce) in 1822. I, too, have heard the story as told of Mr. Hamilton and Payne's Hill; but I a little doubt it, because in the elaborate and somewhat pompous description of Payne's Hill there is no mention of theHermitage; and when I saw it as a show place a great many years ago, I saw no building of that description; but, after all, this may have been the original story which O'Keefe transported into Dorsetshire.
C.
—Allow me to correct one or two errors into which your correspondent H. L. has fallen.
In the first place, my letter was not intended (nor, I conceive, was that of your correspondent LLEWELLYN) either to support a favourite theory, or to combat a long-established prejudice; but simply to furnish a contribution to MR.FOSS'Slist of monumental effigies decorated with this "much-vext" ornament.
As to the mistakes (if mistakes they be) which H. L. assumes, they are not mine, but those of persons whose authority on these subjects H. L. (like the celebrated reviewer who criticised Pindar's Greek without knowing it) might find it awkward to impugn.
I may as well inform him, by the way, that thecorf de mailles, which originally covered the whole head, as a sort of cowl, was diminished in size until it became little more than a gorget of mail; and appears at last to have formed a portion of the hauberk. The name also changed its orthography: passing, as has been suggested, through the intervening stage ofcap-mail, until it was corrupted intocamail. There is, therefore, no ground for "assuming" the ignorance of persons who use theoriginal, instead of thecorruptedform of a word.
Perhaps H. L. has never heard of a helmet being worn over a bascinet. I can furnish him with afewinstances of monumental effigies where both appear. He should study the monument in question before he pronounces the use of the word "helmet" to be a mistake.
I would suggest to H. L. that the next time he appears in your pages he had better append his name in full, that those whom he assails may be better able to judge of the value of his criticism.
I will only add that it is hardly fair to "assume" that a man has never studied a subject which has been his hobby for thirty years; and who might be able to prove, by ocular demonstration, that he has "studied" more monumental effigies than H. L. probably ever dreamt of.
LEWISEVANS.
—It was not Herschel's discoveries relative to the sun's motion, but his theory relative to its physicalconstitutions, which was anticipated by a person, who was declared to be mad for holding such opinions. Sir David Brewster, in a note to his edition of Ferguson'sAstronomy, vol. ii. p. 144., says:
"It is a curious fact that the opinions of Dr. Herschel, respecting the nature of the sun, were maintained by a Dr. Elliot, who was tried at the Old Bailey for shooting Miss Boydell. The friends of the Doctor maintained that he was insane, and called several witnesses to establish this point. Among these was Dr. Simmons, who declared that Dr. Elliot had, for some months before, shown a fondness for the most extravagant opinions; and that in particular, he had sent to him a letter on the light of the celestial bodies, to be communicated to the Royal Society. This letter confirmed Dr. Simmons in the belief that this unhappy man was under the influence of this mental derangement; and, as a proof of the correctness of this opinion, he directed the attention of the court to a passage of the letter, in which Dr. Elliot states, 'that the light of the sun proceeds from a dense and universal aurora, which may afford ample light to the inhabitants of the surface (of the sun) beneath, and yet be at such a distance aloft as not to annoy them.' No objection, says he, ariseth to that great luminary being inhabited; vegetation may obtain there, as well as with us. There may be water and dry land, hills and dales, rain and fair weather; and as the light, so the season, must be eternal; consequently it may easily be conceived to be by far the most blissful habitation of the whole system." (See theGentleman's Magazine, 1787, p. 636.)
W. G.
—In reply to CEYREPI would recommend to his notice the following publications; they may assist him materially in his inquiries, viz.:
1. "Moore's List of the Principal Monasteries and Castles in Great Britain. Revised by John Caley, Keeper of the Records of the Abbey lands in the Exchequer. 8vo. 1798."
2. "Fragmenta Scoto-Monastica: Memoir of what has been already done, and what Materials exist, towards the Formation of a Scottish Monasticon: to which are appended, Sundry New Instances of Goodly Matter, by a Delver in Antiquity (W. B. Turnbull). 8vo. 1842."
In the Advocates' Library here, there are, I understand, a few MSS. relative to these religious establishments, such asRentales; also Father Richard Hay's MS. entitledScotia Sacra, being an account of the most renowned monasteries in Scotland, with a series of the several bishops, priors, and other governors, &c., written in 1700, folio.
T. G. S.
Edinburgh.
—The editorial reply to ANM.D. seems to me very unsatisfactory. Would it not be more reasonable to refer the custom to the Scandinavian mythology, wherein the mistletoe is dedicated to Friga, the Venus of the Scandinavians; especially when we remember that previous to the introduction of Christianity, the feast of Thor was celebrated by the Northmen at nearly the same period? a fact which also accounts for the Bacchanalian character of the Christian feast. Students of the Edda will remember the importance of the mistletoe in the Scandinavian legends; the story of Loke's attack on Balder hinging upon the parasite character of the plant. It is worth a note in passing, that the holly owes its importance in the Christmas festivities to paganism. The Romans dedicated the holly to Saturn, whose festival was held in December; and the early Christians, to screen themselves from persecution, decked their houses with its branches during their own celebration of the Nativity.
SHIRLEYHIBBERD.
—I allow all that has been said, though the Rubric in our Prayer Book directs the ring to be placedonthe fourth finger, and held there, &c. Still I have read of the earliest custom being, after repeating the words "With this ring I thee wed," &c., on coming to "In the name of the Father," to place the ring on the top of the thumb; "and of the Son," to place it on the top of the forefinger; "and of the Holy Ghost," to place it on the top of the third finger;and, on repeating the word "amen," to put the ringdownover the fourth finger; thereby "ratifying, and confirming the same." This seems the mostseriousconclusion of the matter.
R. F. M.
—TheGlossary of Architectureis right in its description, but not in its conclusion. There are many instances where theSanctus Bell, or its remains, still exist in the tower or bell chamber. Ase.g.at Addington, Bucks, the "Parson's Bell," as it is now called there, is to be seen in a small aperture in the wall of the bell-chamber, exposed to the outside, on the west. A similar aperture, size, and position, butminusthe bell, can also be seen in the tower of Merriott, Somerset. The recess in the wall of the tower of Trumpington Church was clearly for the sacristan (perhaps) to stand in to ring the bell. In the ringing chamber in the tower of Halstock, Dorset, is awedge-likeaperture in the wall next the nave; it is about three feet square, andsplaysfrom a narrow slit in the church over the tower arch. This was evidently for the sacristan to observe the proper times for ringing the bell. The top of the tower, bell-chamber, &c., had been rebuilt about a hundred years since, which may account for no loop-hole now to be seen. No doubt there are many others.
R. F. M.
—The following titles of books of this nature are taken fromA Classical Dictionary of the Vulgar Tongue. The secondedition, corrected and enlarged. 8vo. London, 1788.
1. "A Caveat for Common Cursetors, vulgarly called Vagabones; set forth by Thomas Harman, Esquier, for the Utilitie and Proffyt of hys Naturall Countrye. Newly Augmented and Imprinted, Anno DominiM.D.LXVII."
2. "The Bellman of London, bringing to light the most notorious villanies that are now practised in the Kingdom. Profitable for gentlemen, lawyers, merchants, citizens, farmers, masters of households, and all sorts of servants, to marke and delightfull for men to reade. Lege, Perlege, Relege. 1608."
3. "English Villanies, seven severall times prest to death by the printers; but (still reviving againe) are now the eighth time (as the first) discovered by lanthorne and candle light. Et cet.... London, 1638."
4. "The Canting Academy; or Villanies discovered: Wherein are shown the Mysterious and Villanous Practices of that Wicked Crew, commonly known by the Names of Hectors, Trapanners, Gilts, et cet., with several new Catches and Songs; also a Compleat Canting Dictionary both of Old Words and such as are now most in Use: a Book very useful and necessary (to be known but not practised) for all People. The Second Edition: London. N. B.—The dedication is signed R. Head."
5. "Hell upon Earth; or the most pleasant and delectable History of Whittington's Colledge, otherwise (vulgarly) called Newgate. Giving an Account of the Humours of those Collegians who are strictly examined at the Old Bailey, and take their Highest Degrees near Hyde Park Corner.... London, 1703."
6. "The Scoundrel's Dictionary, 1754."
CRANMORE.
—With the utmost deference to so high an authority, on such a subject, as SIREMERSONTENNENT, I must deny that Cos, Athens, or Constantinople have been called by the Greeks, Stanco, Satines, or Stamboul.
These corruptions have been made by Turks, Venetians, and Englishmen; and in speaking to barbarians the Greek uses barbarous terms to make himself intelligible; but in speaking to another Greek, and in writing, Athens is Athens, Cos is Cos, and Constantinople isἡ πόλις.
Very few corruptions of names of places have taken place amongst the Greeks; while every island, peak, and every headland in the Ægean cries out against Venetian barbarism.
Patræ is Patras in the mouths of Englishmen, and Patrasso with Italians: the Greeks call itΠατραι, and generally write itΠαλαιαι Πατραι.
Corcyra has lost her name, but has received a correct Greek name,Οἱ Κόρυφοι—the peaks—whether of the citadel or of Mount San Salvador. This has become Corfu. Ithaca has lost her name and is now Theaki.
A Greek does not know what place you mean.
I should be obliged if any correspondent can tell me whether Paxo is mentioned by any classical author. It has a plural termination:Οι Παξοι εις τοὺς Παξους.
L. H. J. T.
—For several years past I have had by me a little memorandum in the handwriting of a friend. It states that Baskerville was once foreman to a stonemason, during which time he had cut some lines upon the tombstone of a poor idiot, who was buried in Edgbaston churchyard. The lines are these: