1079. Have you ever sold any articles for your daughters?-Yes.
1080. Do you sometimes take the goods they knit the shops and sell them for them?-Yes.
1081. Where have you taken them to?-To Linklater.
1082. Do you keep an account with him?-No.
1083. You just take the article in and sell it?-Yes, and get what they want for it.
1084. Do your daughters knit with their own wool?-No, they knit with wool supplied by Mr. Linklater.
1085. Is it through you that the dealing generally takes place?- No; not through me.
1086. Your daughters generally manage it themselves?-Yes.
1087. But you have brought in articles which they have knitted?- Yes; on one or two occasions.
1088. On these occasions what took place?-I was just ordered to get some things from the shop, and I got them.
1089. Did you ever ask for money?-No, they never expected to get money, they never asked for it.
1090. You were told the articles that you were to bring home, and the value that was to be put upon the shawls?-Yes.
1091. Did you not leave the fixing of the price to the merchant?- He knew the price himself. It was marked down in the book, what I brought in for them was added to the account.
1092. Do your daughters have a book?-No; but the merchant enters these things in his own book.
1093. Then they have an account with Mr. Linklater-which is kept in his book?-Yes.
1094. What is the name of your daughter?-Elizabeth Christie.
1095. Is the account in Mr. Linklater's book kept in her name?- Yes.
1096. You say that you buy your goods until the end of the year from your landlord's shop: is it from the shop at Scalloway or in Lerwick that you generally buy?-I buy from both places.
1097. Is there an account in your name in both shops?-Yes; I can go to any place I like.
1098. And you get the same class of goods at both?-I don't think there is much difference.
1099. Do you get every kind of goods at both shops?-Yes.
Lerwick, January 2, 1872, CHARLES SINCLAIR, examined.
1100. You are a fisherman in Burra?-Yes.
1101. Do you hold any land there?-No, I have only a room, and pay rent for it, in an old mansion-house on the island.
1102. To whom do you pay rent?-To Messrs. Hay.
1103. How do you make your living?-By fishing, and sometimes by going as master of a small coasting vessel.
1104. Does that vessel belong to you?-No; I sometimes get employment from the owners in Lerwick,-from Mr. Leask, or Messrs. Hay, or others.
1105. You have not a permanent employment as master?-No, but I am competent for taking charge of a vessel at times.
1106. Is that a vessel employed in the fishing trade?-Yes, and sometimes in the coasting trade, taking cured fish to any port in England or Scotland.
1107. You have been present during the examination of the previous witnesses during the day?-Yes.
1108. Do you concur generally in what they have stated?-So far as I can remember it, I do.
1109. Is there anything additional you want to say?-Yes. Our wishes are to have our liberty to fish for whoever we please, and to make the best we can of our fish.
1110. But you are not bound in any way?-I am bound to fish for Messrs. Hay in the long-line and herring fishing in the island.
1111. Did you sign any obligation-to fish for Messrs. Hay only?- No.
1112. Then in what way are you bound?-By our father signing an obligation.
1113. Are you the son of a Burra man?-Yes.
1114. Did your father sign the obligation eight years ago?-Yes.
1115. What reason have you to suppose that binds you to fish?- My father told me when he came home, that neither he nor his sons were to be allowed to fish to any other men than Messrs. Hay.
1116. Is it eight years since he told you that-Yes.
1117. Is your father alive?-Yes, he is here. His name is John Sinclair.
1118. Have you attempted or wished to fish for any other than Messrs. Hay?-Yes; in the Faroe fishing, but nowhere else.
1119. Was there any objection taken to your doing so?-No; because at the time when I broke off from Messrs. Hay they could not suit me with a vessel. I was competent to take charge of a vessel, and they had none to give me, and for that reason they let me off.
1120. Do you go in for the home fishing?-Sometimes.
1121. Have you fished for any other than Messrs. Hay in that fishing?-No, not in the long-line fishing.
1122. Have you proposed to do so?-No.
1123. Then you have never been interfered with in any way yourself?-No, not further than that. Occasionally I have had to fish a little for them when I was not engaged at anything else.
[Page 23]
1124. How had you to fish to them?-To support myself.
1125. But if you had chosen, you might have engaged with any other merchant than Messrs. Hay?-No, not for the home fishing.
1126. Why do you say that?-Because we were made to understand that we would not be allowed to do so.
1127. You say that your only reason for understanding that, was what your father had told you. What would have been the result to you if you had done it?-The result would have been, that my father would have been turned out on my account.
1128. Is that what you were afraid of?-Yes.
1129. And is that the reason why you never tried to get engaged with any other merchant?-Yes.
1130. Had you ever to pay liberty money?-No.
1131. Had your father ever to pay liberty money for you or any of his sons?-I believe he had to pay for one who died.
1132. Do you know that yourself?-I am confident of it, from having heard about it.
1133. Was that when you were young?-Yes.
1134. But that was a good many years ago?-Yes. I cannot remember the time.
1135. Is that all you wish to say?-I remember in my early years, when I was a young fellow, and commenced to fish along with my father, we went chiefly to the herring fishing, and we had to catch herring for Messrs. Hay at a very low price. We had a certain allowance of meal, which I suppose would amount to about twenty-four pounds for seven or eight days; and it was hardly fit to sustain a family of about eight people. My father had to find boats and nets with which to proceed to the fishing, and that put him into debt; and about four years ago I and my brothers had to come good for that debt.
1136. Was that an old debt which your father had contracted?-It was a debt accumulated chiefly in the herring fishing.
1137. When was it begun to be incurred?-About fifteen or sixteen years ago.
1138. Had the debt increased, or did it merely stand over?-It was not regular; it sometimes rose and sometimes fell.
1139. But your father was constantly in debt up to four years ago?-Yes, so far as I can remember.
1140. Was that debt made out by the annual accountings which we have heard about to-day? Was it a debt in the books of Messrs. Hay for provisions supplied at the store?-Yes, and for fishing materials.
1141. Was it for a boat also?-It was chiefly for a new boat and nets. He purchased a new boat, which put him further down than ever.
1142. Was it purchased about fifteen or twenty years ago?-No; it is perhaps ten or twelve years ago.
1143. And you say that about four years ago this debt became so large that you and your brother had to become bound for it?-Yes.
1144. How did that happen?-Because they wrote out, or pretended to write out, what might be called a travelling-ticket, or a warning to remove off the land.
1145. At what term?-Was it at Martinmas?-As far as I recollect, it was.
1146. Some people have taken special objection to the short Martinmas warning. Do you concur in that objection?-Yes. It is only forty days in some cases.
1147. And your father got that warning?-Yes.
1148. How much was he in debt at that time?-Perhaps from £9 to £12. I and my brother Robert had to pay £6, and I believe that was the half of it.
1149. Did you sign any document obliging you pay that money?- No.
1150. Then how did you become bound?-On account of my father being warned out.
1151. But in what way did you become bound? Did you merely promise by word of mouth that you would pay it?-Yes; we had to become good for it.
1152. But you did not sign any agreement?-No; we handed over the money-the sum of £6.
1153. Was that money which you had earned?-Yes.
1154. Was it due to you in your account with Messrs. Hay?-No; I had it in my pocket. I had saved it in other employments.
1155. Then you had no difficulty in getting money for your wages when you wanted it? You were not obliged to take your wages in goods?-No, not our wages; but we have to take the proceeds of our fishing in that way, to a certain extent. They will give us part of that in goods.
1156. Is that the proceeds of the Faroe fishing?-No; of the home fishing.
1157. In the Faroe fishing, what arrangement do you make about the payment of your share?-We can get it all in money if we choose to have it.
1158. You have been at the Faroe fishing?-Yes.
1159. There is no difficulty in that fishing in getting cash at the end of the season?-No; not at the settling times, which take place once a year.
1160. How do you do about your supplies for the Faroe fishing?- We generally apply for them to the merchant we fish for.
1161. And you get a supply from him of provisions, clothing, fishing material, and everything you require?-Yes.
1162. That is marked down against you in the book, and deducted from the price of your fish at the end of the season?-Yes.
1163. Is the price for these fish fixed only at settling time?-Yes.
1164. Who does the boat belong to in which you go to the Faroe fishing?-I have been at that fishing for different owners.
1165. Does the boat always belong to the merchant, or does it sometimes belong to the men themselves?-No; it always belongs to the merchant.
1166. But the whole material required for that fishing, except the boat, belongs to the men?-Yes; and it is purchased by them from the shipowner. We have to find our hooks and lines and provisions. That is all we have to find, the owner finds the rest.
1167. Are you a married man?-Yes, I have a wife and two children.
1168. How are your family supported during your absence at the Faroe fishing? Where do they get their supplies?-They can get them in the owner's store if they require them, but, for myself, I do not require to go there. I can get them at any place I please.
1169. Is it a common thing for the other men who go to the Faroe fishing, to buy their goods at the owners store?-When they don't have money to buy them at other places, they go there for them.
1170. But is that a common thing?-I cannot say exactly. I suppose it is not uncommon.
1171. Does it often happen that a man employed in the Faroe fishing finds an account against him in the owner's store for provisions at settling time as large as the amount which he has to receive for his fishing?-I am not acquainted with that myself.
1172. When you are away at the Faroe fishing, and your family have occasion for money, is there any difficulty in getting it from the parties who employ you?-Not if they know we have money to get. If we have a balance in our favour, they are not against giving it.
1173. How long are you generally absent at that fishing?- Sometimes six months, sometimes seven, and sometimes as low as three months.
1174. Suppose you had been away from home for two or three months, there would certainly be two or three months take of fish, if it was a middling season, for which money would be due to you?-Yes.
1175. Would your wife at home be able to get an advance of money from the merchant in that case, if she required it for the support of the family?-Yes.
1176. There is no difficulty made about that?-No.
1177. Is it a common thing in Shetland for a man's wife to get such advances of money during his absence-Yes, they would get a small sum of money, but the merchant would prefer them to take goods.
[Page 24]
1178. If she comes for the money is she ever told to take it in goods; or is there any understanding that she is to take it in goods?-I cannot answer that, because I am not acquainted with what goes on while I am away. I can only speak to what has come within my own experience.
Lerwick, January 2, 1872, GILBERT GOODLAD, examined.
1179. You are a fisherman in Burra, and you hold land there under Messrs. Hay?-Yes.
1180. You have been present during the examination of the previous witnesses?-Yes.
1181. Do you agree with most of what Williamson and Smith have said?-Yes.
1182. Is it all correct?-Yes; all correct.
1183. You generally go to the Faroe fishing?-I do.
1184. How long may you be absent at that fishing?-It just depends upon the season: sometimes we may be away for perhaps four months. We are generally home once in the middle of the time. We are sometimes we may be away longer than four months, sometimes not so long ago.
1185. What merchants have you generally engaged with?-I have engaged with a great many merchants in Shetland.
1186. There has been no objection made to your going with any merchant you liked?-No.
1187. Messrs. Hay have not objected to that?-No. They might not have been requiring me when I was going, and therefore I could go where I liked.
1188. When you go there, how do you arrange for your family to be supplied during your absence?-The merchant supplies them during my absence.
1189. What merchant?-Whatever owner I am out for.
1190. When your wife wants supplies, does she go to his shop for them?-Yes.
1191. If she wants money, does she ask it from him too?-She may, but sometimes she has been refused it. They are not willing to give money. If they think we are doing well at the fishing, they will advance her a little money; but if they think we are not succeeding well, they will not give it, because they would think then that we might come to be in their debt.
1192. Is there any communication with the vessels when they are at the fishing?-Yes. Some of the vessels may go home and come back again, or an accident may occur on board of one of them, and she may go home and give an account of how the fishing is going on. They may also send letters from Faroe, by Denmark, to Shetland; so that there are several ways of communicating from there to here.
1193. Who are some of the parties with whom you have shipped for the Faroe fishing?-I have been out for Mr. Garriock in Reawick, Mr. Garriock in Lerwick, Mr. Leask, and Messrs. Hay.
1194. But, whoever you go out for, your wife generally goes to their shop for her supplies?-She is obliged to go there, if we have no other means to live on.
1195. Can you tell me one occasion on which she went and was refused money, or on which you have asked them to give her money and it has been refused?-I am not quite sure that there has been any occasion of that kind, because we know that if we are not fishing well, we need not ask for money.
1196. Have you been told that by any of the shopkeepers?-I have seen it, and experienced it.
1197. When, and how?-Even during the last season with the Faroe fishing, there were some of the merchants who would not make an advance to the people when they required it.
1198. Did they require to get an advance of money?-They might try to live on through the season without money, and they might have done it if they could only have got some meal and some bread to live upon.
1199. Do you mean that the people at the fishing had to do so?- No; the people whom they left at home got so little that they could hardly subsist upon it, and they had to try some other means in order to enable them to live.
1200. What other means had they?-They might have a cow or two, and make butter, and sell the milk, and buy a little meal with that.
1201. Do any of the members of your family knit?-I have two daughters who knit
1202. Do they get money for that knitting?-Not one cent.
1203. Have you sold the hosiery work for them?-I never did. They always manage these matters for themselves.
1204. Have you ever represented their case to the merchants, and said that they ought to pay them in cash?-No. It is no use saying anything of the kind, because the merchants would not give them money. There is one thing I should like to say with regard to the Faroe fishing. We come into the town of Lerwick, or any other port in Shetland where the vessels happen be fitting out, and commence to fit the vessels so as to have them ready for sea. We have to go on board, and have only an allowance of one pound of bread a day for every day we are on board the vessel. We have nothing else to live on during the time we are fitting out the vessels, and if we are absent on any account whatever during the time the vessels are being fitted out they charge 2s., 6d. per day for that, in order to put a man in our place.
1205. Is not that merely a part of your bargain with the merchants for whom you engage to fish?-It is part of the bargain, but it is a very bad part.
1206. If you did not choose to make a bargain of that kind, you would not be bound to carry it out?-That is true; but the poor people here cannot strike as they do in England: because they are so poor, the merchants can just do as they please with them.
1207. Did you sign the obligation eight years ago which has been spoken to by the previous witnesses?-No.
1208. Do you go in for the home fishing at all?-Yes; I am a fisherman in the Burra Isles.
1209. Do you consider yourself bound to fish only for Messrs. Hay in the home fishing?-I do.
1210. Have you ever been told so by Messrs. Hay?-Yes, I have been told that; and there was a document made out, but I did not sign it. I have got no notice about the matter since then, because we knew that we had to carry on the fishing in the same way.
1211. Have you ever paid liberty money?-No, I never had anybody to pay it for, and I never paid for myself.
1212. Have you ever asked to have the price of your fish fixed at the beginning of the season?-No.
1213. Is there not a feeling among the men, that that would be a better mode of dealing than the present?-We durst not go in for anything of the kind.
1214. Would it not be a better plan in the Faroe fishing?-We could not do anything of the kind there, because the merchants don't know what the price of the fish will be until they can be sold. The market may rise.
1215. You take your chance of the markets there-Yes; whatever chance the merchant gets, we get too. We run shares with the merchants in that fishing.
1216. You are not paid at so much per cwt.?-No; we have shares. One half of the fish that are brought in by the vessel belongs to the crew, and the other half belongs to the owners.
1217. Then you are not serving for wages there at all?-No; they give us wages if we have to go to Iceland in the fall of the year but they give no wages for the summer fishing at Faroe. It is just a partnership that is made up for the fish that are caught.
1218. Is there anything further you wish to say?-No; I think everything which we have to say has been pretty well said by the other men.
1219. Are all the thirteen men here who signed the letter to me about Burra?-Yes.
1220. Have any of them anything further to say?-[No answer.]
[Page 25]
Lerwick: Wednesday, January 3, 1872.
JOHN LEASK, examined.
1221. You are a fisherman at Channerwick, parish of Sandwick?- I am.
1222. You came here yesterday for the purpose making some statement: what was it about?-I wanted to make some statement about how I have been treated three years back, particularly.
1223. Are you a tenant of land?-Yes.
1224. Are you a yearly tenant?-Yes.
1225. Under whom?-Under Mr. Robert Bruce of Simbister.
1226. Do you pay your rent to him?-We pay our rent to Mr. William Irvine, the factor.
1227. Is that Mr. Irvine of Hay & Co.?-Yes.
1228. What quantity of land do you hold?-It is rather more than what are called two merks and about a third.
1229. How much is that in acres?-I don't know. It is a Danish measurement.
1230. How much rent do you pay for that?-£4, 2s. 10d.
1231. Do you also pay taxes and poor-rates in addition?-No; that is included in the sum I have mentioned.
1232. What did you come to complain about?-About the way we were dealt with when we were under tack for seventeen years to Mr. Robert Mouat. He got bankrupt in the latter end.
1233. How long is it since he became bankrupt?-It was only last year, and he went away then.
1234. Before that, had he a tack of the whole lands of Mr. Bruce in that part of the country?-He had Levenwick, Channerwick and Coningsburgh in tack.
1235. Had you to pay your rent to him?-Yes.
1236. He was what is called a middle-man in Shetland?-Yes; a middle-man or tacksmaster. The Shetland name for it is tacksmaster.
1237. You were under tack to him, and you paid the same rent to him that you have mentioned just now?-Yes, I suppose so, but I don't remember what rent I paid to him, for I never got my rent from him.
1238. How do you mean?-Because he was the tacksman, and he took what rent he liked.
1239. Do you mean to say that you did not pay £4, 2s. 10d. to him the same as you are doing now?-I paid him more.
1240. When was your rent fixed at £4, 2s. 10d.?-This year.
1241. What was your rent before?-I cannot tell what it was under Mouat, for I never heard what it was. He never told me what my rent was; it was just what he liked to take. But after Mouat left, Mr. Bruce gave us our liberty. We have had our liberty for the past year, and we go now and pay our rent to the factor, and he has told us what our rent is.
1242. Did you fish for Mouat when he was there?-I was bound by the proprietor to do so.
1243. Had you signed any agreement to do that?-I was never called upon to sign any agreement, but Mouat told me that his agreement with the proprietor was that I was bound to fish for him; and he told me that if I did not fish for him, he had power to warn me out of the place where I lived.
1244. When did he tell you that?-He told me that at the commencement of the tack, seventeen years ago.
1245. Had you been in the same ground before that time?-Yes.
1246. Who did you hold from at that time?-The tacksman before Mouat was Mr. Spence, Lerwick. He collected the rents for Mr. Bruce.
1247. Was he the tacksman or only a factor?-He was a lawyer or tacksman, taking up the money for Mr. Bruce.
1248. Were you bound then to fish for any particular individual?- We were always bound.
1249. After Mouat told you that you must fish for him, did you ever fish for any one else during the whole of these seventeen years?-No.
1250. Why did you not sell your fish to any one else?-For fear of being warned off the property where was living; and I had nowhere else to go to, because I was a poor man.
1251. Is it the home fishing you are now speaking of?-Yes, the home or ling fishing; but I have been in the whale fishery, and in the straits fishery, and the Faroe fishery, as well as in the home fishery.
1252. But you were not at these other fishings for Mouat?-No; I was at home when I fished for him.
1253. Could you engage with any one you pleased for the whale fishing or the Faroe fishing?-Yes.
1254. You have no complaint to make about that-No; I could go to any one I liked, only I was bound under tack to Mouat.
1255. When you fished for Mouat, did you deliver your fish to his people?-Yes.
1256. Where?-At Levenwick.
1257. Did you deliver them green or dry?-Green.
1258. How were you paid for them?-We were just paid as he liked to pay us. He gave us just what he chose.
1259. When were you paid for them?-Sometimes in March, sometimes about the New Year, or just when he chose to make arrangements for paying us.
1260. Did he pay you then for all the fish of the previous season?-Yes.
1261. At what time in the season did you begin to fish?-We began in the spring-generally in the month of May.
1262. And all the fish which you caught from May down to next winter were paid for in January or February or March?-Yes; or at any time, just as he chose to make arrangements for paying.
1263. Did you make a bargain about the price at the beginning of the season?-No.
1264. Did you make your bargain when you delivered your fish to him?-No.
1265. When did you fix the price which you were to get?-He fixed the price when he paid us.
1266. Did you ever object to the price which he fixed?-Many a time.
1267. You made that objection at settling day?-Yes.
1268. What did he when you asked for a larger price?-He told us that we should have no more, and that we were in duty bound to fish for him.
1269. Had Mouat a shop?-Yes; his shop was at the Moul of Channerwick, close to my house.
1270. Are there many fishermen living close by there?-There are a good many, and almost all men are fishermen.
1271. Do they live near that shop?-Yes.
1272. How many houses may be there, or about that neighbourhood?-I think there are about nineteen of them close together.
1273. Are there many more houses at a little distance?-There are no more at that particular place, but in the town of Levenwick, about a mile to the south of the Moul, there are more.
1274. Is there another shop there?-No.
1275. Do the Levenwick people come to the Channerwick shop?- Yes.
1276. What did you get in Mouat's shop?-We got the goods he pleased to give us.
1277. Did you get the goods you wanted?-No; we did not get the goods we wanted. We could just get the goods he had.
1278. What did you get?-We sometimes got a [Page 26] little tea and cotton and anything we asked for that was there. If it was there for us to get it was very well; but if it was not there, we had to walk home without, and we could get no money to buy it with.
1279. How could you get no money?-Because he would not give it to us on any consideration at all.
1280. Did you often ask for?-Every year and every time.
1281. What do you mean by every time?-Every time we came to that store when we thought his goods were not a bargain for us to take we asked for some money to go somewhere else and get a better bargain; but of course we were denied it. We could get none.
1282. Did you never get an advance of money from the time the fishing began, until settling time?-No.
1283. Did you ever get any money from Mouat during the whole seventeen years you fished for him?-No.
1284. Did you not get money if there was, a balance over at settling time?-No.
1285. Do you swear that?-Yes, I do.
1286. Supposing that at the time of settling there was a balance due to you after paying your account at the shop and your rent did you not get, that in money?-No. I had to take it in goods or else go without.
1287. Were you told that you must take it in goods?-Yes; I could get no money.
1288. Did you generally take goods there and then or did you get them afterwards just as you wanted them?-Sometimes I got them as I wanted them and at other times I might take a little goods expecting that I would perhaps get a shilling of money along with them as I was in necessity for it; but I could not get any.
1289. Did you expect that you might get a shilling for the goods?-As I had a balance due I expected that I might get a shilling in money; and I did not take all the goods at one time but I took a little now when I required them, and a little the next time; and always when I came to the store I asked if I could not get a shilling in money because goods could not serve me every time.
1290. Did you sell the goods which you got from the shop in order to raise a little money?-Sometimes.
1291. Did you sell them to your neighbours?-I could not sell them to my neighbours, because they were in the same state as I was myself.
1292. Where did you sell them?-Sometimes we would take a little and fall in with a boy or a laddie, who would buy a bit of cloth from us, or the like of that, at a reduced price and thus help us to get a few shillings.
1293. To what boys or lads did you sell these goods?-Just to any lad that would buy them. Perhaps my own lad would be going elsewhere, such as to the sea, where he would be paid by a fee; and sometimes I would get a bit of goods and give it to my boy, and he would pay me for it with a few shillings out of his fee and that would serve my ends for the time.
1294. Had you anything to sell off your farm?-Yes.
1295. You sold a beast now and then?-Yes; but Mouat took the whole of them.
1296. Did he buy your beasts too?-Yes.
1297. Did you not have liberty to sell them to other people?-No, we had no liberty at all; because he said we were under the same obligation with regard to beasts and eggs and all the produce of our farms as we were under with regard to the fish, and therefore, if he got the one, he compelled us to give him the other too.
1298. When did he tell you that about the beasts and the eggs?- He told us about it in the same year that he took the tack.
1299. Did you ever try to sell them to another?-Yes, I tried that sometimes.
1300. To whom did you try to sell them?-To any one who came round asking for such things; but I knew that if I did such a thing, and Mouat came to know about it, I must be prepared to take to my heels and fly.
1301. Did you ever actually sell any of the produce of your farm to another than Mouat?-I never sold any, except one little horse; and I sold it when I was in starvation for meal. That was towards the end of Mouat's tack.
1302. How long ago was it?-I think it is two years past.
1303. Who did you sell it to?-I sold it to a man in the neighbourhood of Quarff.
1304. What was his name?-Andrew Jamieson, he lives at Quarff now.
1305. What did you get for it?-I got £2; it was a small beast
1306. Did Mouat know that you had sold that beast to Jamieson?-Yes, and as soon as he heard about it he sent for me, and told me what he was determined to do, and that I might prepare myself for going.
1307. How long was that before he failed?-I think I only paid one year after that.
1308. Do you mean that there was only one settlement with him after that?-Yes.
1309. When you were making your settlements, I suppose it was the previous Whitsunday and Martinmas rents that you settled for at each?-Yes.
1310. How long would it be before the settlement that you sold the horse?-I sold it after the settlement for the year. Mouat knew that I had a pony to sell and he wanted me to give it to him. I said that I would give him the pony as he told me I was bound to do it but he must bring me some meal, because it was a very bad season, and I could not sow down my ground. He would not bring me any meal and therefore I resolved that, whatever might happen to me whether I should be put out or not, I would sell my animal and procure a living for my house; and I did so.
1311. At what time of the year did you sell it?-In March.
1312. That would be shortly after the settlement?-Yes.
1313. How long was it after that when Mouat told you that you must leave?-Just about eight days-as soon as he heard it.
1314. But he did not turn you off?-No.
1315. Could he not have turned you off at the following Whitsunday term?-Yes; he could have turned me off then.
1316. But he did not do it?-No; because I went to the proprietor, Mr. Bruce, and told him what I had done, and what Mouat was going to do to me. I don't know what took place between Mr. Bruce and Mouat about that, but I did not get my warning?
1317. What did Mr. Bruce say to you about it when you saw him?-He said very little. I went to him, and also to the factor, Mr. Irvine, and told him about it. I got no satisfaction at the time, and therefore I expected I would be turned off; but in the end I was not put off the ground.
1318. That would be in the spring of 1870?-Yes.
1319. Have you paid any rent to Mr. Irvine or to Mr Bruce this year?-Yes; I paid my rent about six weeks ago.
1320. To whom do you deliver your fish now?-To any one I choose.
1321. Who did you fish for last season?-For Mr. Robertson.
1322. Where do you get your goods now?-I can get them from Mr. Robertson. He bought Mouat's store in Channerwick.
1323. Do you still get your goods there?-Yes.
1324. Are you bound to get them there?-We are not bound particularly, because if we ask Mr. Robertson for a few shillings of money during the time we are fishing for him, we will get them.
1325. Have you got money from him since he took that store?- Yes; I got my rent from him this year.
1326. You mean, that you got money from him to pay your rent?- Yes.
1327. Can you mention the name of any person who [Page 27] was turned away for selling his fish or the produce of his farm to another merchant than during the seventeen years he held the tack?-I cannot mention any one particularly, except an old man who was turned off his farm; but that was a good while ago. His name was Henry Sinclair, in Levenwick. That occurred about the beginning of Mouat's tack.
1328. What was he turned out for?-For an 'outfall' about some fishing.
1329. What had he done with his fish?-It was his son that the thing occurred with.
1330. What had his son done?-His son got into some sort of dispute with Mouat about fishing, I can not tell what the cause of it was exactly; but Mouat gave him warning, and sent him off the property that he was staying on. Sinclair took a little bit of scattald outside of the premises, and built a house on it, and he is living there in a very mean condition.
1331. Did the other people in the neighbourhood take that case as a warning?-Yes.
1332. It frightened them, did it?-Yes; Shetland people are of that nature, to be frightened by such things-very much to their hurt.
1333. Do you know of any other person who was turned off in the same way?-No, I don't remember of any other person being turned off; because Mouat had no occasion to turn them off. They did not transgress his law.
1334. Do you know of any other who was threatened to be turned off?-Every one of us was threatened, the next man was threatened, and we were all threatened; so that we were frightened.
1335. Do you know of any person who sold his fish or his beasts or eggs to another than Mouat?-Towards the end of his tack, in the very last fishing when I fished for him, my family and I were in a state of starvation for want of meal. I have seen me out at sea under him for two days and part of a third, on two pounds of meal; and I saw that I must make some effort for a living, Accordingly I went to another store close by and gave them some of the fish I had caught, and got some meal from them. If Mouat's tack had continued longer, I have no doubt I would have been punished for that; but as it was nearly broken, he did not have it in his power to do me any hurt.
1336. Did Mouat speak to you about that?-Yes. There came a letter from him to the people in the neighbourhood, because some of them did take their liberty and go away.
1337. Was that in the last year of his tack?-Yes.
1338. What kind of letters were these?-They were letters from Mouat telling them not to prepare their turf or anything to keep them in their farms, because they had their warning to go. I got a letter as well as the rest.
1339. Did it refer to the fish that you had sold to the other merchant?-Yes.
1340. Have you got that letter?-I don't know. I don't know what became of it. I think I burnt it; but there ought to be letters in the neighbourhood that came from Mouat at that time.
1341. You said you did not get all the goods you wanted at Mouat's shop. What were the goods you asked for and could not get?-I generally asked for little tea.
1342. Could you not get that?-Yes, I always got that, and I could get a bit of cotton or anything out of the store that I wanted.
1343. Did you get the tackle you wanted for your fishing from him?-Yes.
1344. And clothes for your family?-I could get clothes for my family if I asked for them. Sometimes I did get a little clothing from him.
1345. Was it principally meal and tea that you got from Mouat?- Yes; and if his meal had been grain, it would have been good enough; but as it was, it was not fit for human food.
1346. You mean that it was not of good quality?-It was not; and we paid at the dearest rate for it.
1347. How do you know that?-Because we heard it from the storeman who sold it to us. Mouat had a storeman in the shop; and when we got the meal from him, he told us what the price of it was.
1348. Had you a pass-book?-We sometimes had a pass-book, but it was not always taken there; and besides, the storeman was not very willing to be bothered with it.
1349. Did you ever ask the price of meal and tea in Lerwick?- Yes.
1350. Did you ever buy these articles in Lerwick when you happened to have some money?-Yes, sometimes when I had any money I did so; but it was very little money that ever I had, because where could we get it, when we could get no money at all for our fishing?
1351. Have you bought these articles in Lerwick within the last two or three years?-Yes.
1352. Did you find the Lerwick meal better and cheaper than what you got from Mouat?-Yes; the Lerwick meal was grain, but Mouat's meal was nothing but the refuse of the worst that was given to us poor fishing slaves.
1353. Then the complaint you have to make is only about what is past?-Yes; about how I was treated during the seventeen years I was under Mouat. I have nothing to say against Mr. Robert Bruce, or against Mr. Robertson either, with regard to our present condition.
1354. You are quite content with your way of dealing at present?-Yes, I have nothing to say against that, but I am frightened for the future.
1355. Have you a boat of your own?-No.
1356. How do you do for a boat?-I generally arrange with some fish-curer, and he procures me a boat, and takes a hire for it for the season.
1357. How much is the hire?-The hire, as a general rule, has been £2 for three months, or £3, 10s. for the whole season.
1358. Is that the way you did with Mr. Robertson last year?-Yes.
1359. You got goods at his store?-Yes.
1360. As many goods as you wanted during the fishing season?- Yes.
1361. And a little money when you asked for it?-Yes.
1362. How much money would you get at a time from him?-If I asked Mr. Robertson for 5s. or 2s. or 6s., I would get it, according as I asked for it.
1363. If you asked for the whole of your earnings in money, and took no goods out of Mr. Robertson's store, is it likely that you would get the money, so that you could go elsewhere and buy your goods?-I could not say anything about that, because I did not ask it.
1364. You don't wish to go anywhere else?-No; I have not tried that.
1365. Do you think the quality of Mr. Robertson's goods is better than Mouat's?-Oh, Mouat's was nothing at all.
1366. Have you any daughters in your family who knit?-I have two.
1367. Do they knit their own worsted?-Yes; they make worsted for themselves from the wool of our own sheep.
1368. Do they go into Lerwick to sell the articles they have made?-They do.
1369. To whom do they sell them?-To anybody; they do not knit for a merchant. They go to any merchant they choose and sell their shawls, because the worsted with which they are made is their own. If they go into one store with the shawl, and the price is not suitable, they go into the next one.
1370. How are they paid for their shawls?-They are paid in goods at any store where they can sell them.
1371. Do they ever ask for money?-They have asked for it often, but they have never got it; and therefore they say there is no use asking for it, because they know they won't get it.
1372. Are you satisfied with the value of the goods they get in exchange for their shawls?-Sometimes, but not always. Sometimes the goods which they get [Page 28] in exchange are not worth the value put upon them. Sometimes they get cottons for 10d. which are not worth above 8d.
1373. How do you know that?-Because I see the quality of them.
1374. Have they told you the price which the merchant has charged for them?-Yes; and sometimes when my daughters have knitted a shawl, and it is ready to go to the dresser, there may be no money in the house to pay for the dressing of it, and it has to be paid in money. I have known my daughters detained in that way for some days, until I went to a neighbour and borrowed a shilling to pay for the dressing of the shawl, or until I could sell something off the farm; and then, when the shawl was dressed, they went to the merchant with it and sold it to him for goods, according to the custom.
1375. Can your daughters not dress the shawls themselves?-No; they are shawl-makers, but not shawl-dressers. Their dresser is Mrs. Arcus, at the Docks.
1376. Is she the only dresser here?-No; there are other dressers than her, but she is the only one that my daughters go to.
1377. Would she not give them credit for the dressing?-No.
1378. She always requires ready money for that?-Yes; she might give credit to a girl living in the town, but I live sixteen miles from Lerwick, and she would not give credit to a party living at that distance.
1379. How long have your daughters knitted?-A long time now. There is one of them twenty-seven years of age, and she has knitted since she was about eighteen.
1380. Have you ever seen your daughters bring home money for their knitting?-No; I never saw a shilling come into our house in my life which had been got for a shawl. I have paid out several shillings for the dressing of the shawls but I never saw any money given in for them.
1381. Is there anything more you wish to say?-No.
Lerwick, January 3, 1872, GAVIN COLVIN, examined.
1382. Are you a fisherman?-Yes.
1383. Where?-In Levenwick, Sandwick parish.
1384. Was the ground there held in tack by Robert Mouat at one time?-Yes.
1385. How long have you been there?-I have been there all my life.
1386. What was your rent when you held your land under Mouat?-It was £4, excluding poor-rates and road money.
1387. That was what you paid to Mouat?-Yes.
1388. Then you knew what your rent was?-Yes. Of course he told us what our rent was.
1389. And it was accounted for at the settlement?-Yes. At the settlement he summed up our accounts, and told us we were due so much-so much for rent and so much for goods.
1390. Had you a pass-book?-No. He did not approve of pass-books.
1391. Did you take a note yourself of the goods you got, or did you just trust to the people at the store?-I trusted to the people at the store,-to his storekeeper.
1392. Have you been present during the examination of John Leask?-Yes.
1393. You have heard all that he said about the way of dealing, and about the store, and the quality of the goods?-Yes.
1394. Do you agree with all that he said?-Yes, I agree more particularly with what he said about the quality of the goods. The goods were very inferior at Mouat's store.
1395. You also agree with him in his description of the way of dealing with Mouat?-Yes.
1396. Do you also say that you were compelled to sell all your fish to him?-Yes. All our earnings, whether by sea or land, were in duty bound to his store. That was stated to us every year at the settlement.
1397. Was that stated to you by Mouat?-Yes. We were told that we were in duty bound to bring every iota of our produce, whether by sea or land, to his store.
1398. Did you ever get any letter threatening you for selling your fish or your goods to another than Mouat?-I never did, I got no letter, because I never got far forward as to require that treatment.
1399. You never got warning to go away?-No, but I was often told that I would get warning if I persisted in such things.
1400. Do you know of any of your neighbours having got such letters?-No; not in my neighbourhood.
1401. Is there anything you wish to add to the statement made by John Leask?-Nothing.
1402. Who were you fishing for last year?-For Mr. Robertson.
1403. Did you get goods at his store?-Yes.
1404. They were of better quality than those you got from Mouat?-Certainly they were.
1405. Do you get all the money you ask for?-I get what goods I require, and if I ask for money I will get it. At the settlement, if there is anything due to me I will get it; and if I don't have money for my rent, he will help me with it.
1406. But if you want all your balance in money, will you get it?- Yes. I got it last time. We are quite satisfied with Mr. Robertson according to the custom of the country.
1407. But are you satisfied with the custom of the country?-No; I don't agree with it.
1408. What do you want to be changed?-I am not prepared to say in the meantime.
1409. Do you want the price of your fish fixed in advance?-We would require that, I think, for some encouragement to us.
1410. Could you not get it fixed then, if you asked for it?-We have asked for it, but we have never got it yet.
1411. Who did you ask it from?-From the dealers we were fishing to, all along.
1412. But you have fished for no dealers except Mouat and Robertson?-No.
1413. Have you asked them to fix the price before?-Yes.
1414. Did they refuse your request?-Yes. They refused to state a price then, and said they would give the currency of the country at the end of the season.
1415. Have you asked them to pay for the fish as they were delivered?-No; I never asked them for that.
Lerwick, January 3, 1872, CATHERINE PETRIE, examined.
1416. You come from the island of Fetlar?-Yes.
1417. Where do you live there?-In Aithness.
1418. Are you a married woman?-No.
1419. Do you live with your people?-Yes.
1420. Are you in the habit of knitting?-Yes.
1421. What do you knit?-Fine shawls and veils.
1422. Do you knit these articles with your own wool?-Yes.
1423. Do you make your own worsted, or buy it?-I buy wool, and make it.
1424. Where do you buy it?-From any person who sells it. There is a Mrs. Smith in Fetlar who sells wool. She lives at a place called Smithfield.
1425. Has she a shop?-No. They formerly had shop, but they don't have one now. She is a widow
1426. Has she any land?-Yes; she has a small farm. She has some sheep, and she obliges any person with wool who wants it.
1427. Do you always buy your wool from her?-[Page 29] Sometimes from her, and sometimes from any merchant I can get it from.
1428. Do you pay for it in money?-Yes; or in work.
1429. What kind of work?-Any kind of household work that they have to do. People employ others to do so much work, and give them wool for it.
1430. Do you mean work on their farms or ground-Yes; and they will give them wool in return, because the wool in Fetlar is so scarce.
1431. You knit on your own account, and sell what you knit?- Yes.
1432. Do you sell it to merchants in Fetlar?-No. There are no merchants in Fetlar who take it. I come down to Lerwick with it once a year.
1433. Do you then bring in with you all that you have knitted during the season?-Yes.
1434. How much will you bring?-It is not much; perhaps two or three shawls. I have had as high as five shawls when I came down. We have household work to attend to, and we cannot knit so fast as they do here in Lerwick.
1435. It is just part of your time that you can give?-Yes.
1436. Have you come down just now for the purpose of selling the articles you have knitted?-Yes.
1437. How many shawls did you bring with you this year?-Two.
1438. That is less than usual?-Yes.
1439. How do you get paid for your shawls?-I get goods out of the shop.
1440. Does the merchant fix the price 'for the shawl' when you take it in?-Yes.
1441. How much did you get for the two you brought down this time?-16s. for one, and 17s. for the other; and I had one belonging to another person that I got 19s. for.
1442. Who was the merchant that you sold them to?-Mr. Sinclair.
1443. What did you get for them?-Goods.
1444. Did you ask for money?-I did not ask for money, because it has been understood for many years back that they would not give any, and goods are marked on the paper that we get. When I come down I employ a person to dress the shawls, and then that person sells them for me in the shop, and I get back a note from her, stating the amount in goods that I am to get for them. I understand not to ask for money, because the thing is always in that form.
1445. When you get the note, do you hand it back at the shop and get the goods in return?-Yes.
1446. Have you got any of these notes?-No; I have got the goods for them, and I was preparing to return to Fetlar when I was summoned here.
1447. Is the note printed or written?-It is all written.
1448. Who is the dresser that you employ?-A Miss Robertson. I don't know where she lives. The woman I live with when in Lerwick-Mrs. Park, Charlotte Place-went with her when she sold the shawls.
1449. Do you never go to the shop and sell your own shawls?- Sometimes I do; but not this time.
1450. Did you ever go to the shop to sell your shawls, and ask to be paid in money?-No; because I understood I would get no money.
1451. Did you ever get any part of the balance in money?-None.
1452. What do you get in goods?-Any kind of soft goods which I want, and which are in the shop. If the goods I want are not in the shop, then they would say that they did not have them; and I would have to take something else.
1453. Is it just soft goods that are in the shop?-Yes.
1454. Not provisions?-No; not provisions.
1455. Is there any tea?-No.
1456. You go to the shop yourself for your goods, and hand your line in payment for them?-Yes.
1457. Could you the same goods in Fetlar?-I could get the goods in Fetlar if I had money to give for them; but I could not get money for shawls or veils in Fetlar.
1458. But if you had the money, could you get the goods as good and cheap in Fetlar as in Lerwick?-Yes; they are very cheap in Fetlar. Messrs. Hay Co. have a shop there.
1459. And you think you could get your goods as good and cheap there as you can in Lerwick?-Yes.
1460. And of course you would not have to carry them back with you?-No.
1461. Are there many people in Fetlar who knit the same way as you do, and come in to Lerwick to sell their shawls?-Yes; there are a good many people who knit in the same way that I do, and come down here with their shawls, because there is no other way of disposing of them.
1462. Do they get their payment in the same way?-So far as I know, they do.
1463. Do they always get goods for their lines when they come down?-Yes.
1464. Will they not get a line to come down at another time for the goods?-No; I don't think they would get them in that way.
1465. Suppose you did not want the whole amount of your line in goods at one time, could you not take the line home with you, and when you happened to be again in Lerwick might you not get the balance in any kind of goods you wanted that were in the shop?- Yes; and I could get the goods at any time if I were to send down the line.
1466. Is that sometimes done?-I have never done it; but I suppose the merchants would do it.
1467. Did you ever know of a line being sold to another for money, or for another kind of goods?-No; I never did that myself, and I don't know of it being done.
1468. Is it all drapery that you are taking back?-Yes.
1469. Then you will have about £2 or £3 worth of it this time?- Yes.
1470. Do you want all that for your own use?-The girl for whom I sold one of the shawls will get her share of it.
1471. But when you brought down five shawls you might have twice as much to take back as you have this time?-It is not very much that they give for the shawls sometimes; and once, when I came down from Fetlar and had to pay the freight, I had to take what they would give me; and I could not get what I asked.
1472. Is it all stuff for, your own use that you are taking back, in exchange for your own, shawls which you sold?-Yes.
1473. Do you want the goods?-Yes.
1474. Are you to use them for yourself?-Yes.
Lerwick, January 3, 1872, MARGARET TULLOCH, examined.
1475. You live in Lerwick
1476. Are you in the habit of knitting for merchants here?-Yes.
1477. Do you buy your own wool?-For about eighteen months I have bought it.
1478. Before that, how did you do?-I knitted for Mr. Robert Linklater.
1479. You got the wool from him and knitted it, and took back the articles to him?-Yes.
1480. When you got the wool from him, in what way were you paid?-In goods.
1481. Had you a pass-book?-Yes.
1482. Have you got it with you?-Yes. [Produces it]
1483. The goods you got at the shop are entered in the first part of the book, and then at the end there are entries of the knitted work which you have brought back to the shop?-Yes; I knitted a great deal before I took the pass-book out at all.
1484. The knitting begins on July 7th, 1869, and the goods begin in November 1866, and there was balance due for knitting of £3, 17s., 10d., which is not entered in the book at all: how do you explain in that?-It was them who always made up the book.
[Page 30]
1485. Had you a pass-book for goods before this?-I knitted a long time before I took a pass-book.
1486. When did you begin to knit?-I cannot remember how many years it is ago. I had knitted for two or three years to Mr. Linklater before I got the book.
1487. Are the goods which are entered here just for your own use?-No; I sold some tea and got money for it, for I could not get money out of the shop.
1488. I see that in, 1867, on January 3d, you have, Tea 1s. 10d.; 24th, 9d.; 26th, tea 11d., tea 11d., 1s. 10d: does the last entry mean that you got two separate parcels of tea, each 11d.?-It may have been that; I cannot exactly say.
1489. How much tea would you get for 11d.?-A quarter of a pound.
1490. Then you got two quarter pounds on one day?-I suppose so. One would be for my own use and the other not.
1491. What would the other be for?-I would likely sell the other, in order to get money for it.
1492. Who do you generally sell it to?-I cannot remember who I sold it to. Sometimes there would be men coming to the house to buy, tea, and I supplied them.
1493. What kind of men were these?-Men come from the country and want to have some tea made and I supply them with it because I have it in the house.
1494. Do you keep lodgers?-I have very few lodgers; but sometimes people come from the country and want tea made for them, although they do not stay all night.
1495. Why, did they not stay all night?-Because they went home.
1496. Was it part of your business to take in people and give them tea?-No; but they would come into the house and get tea made, and then go out and do their errands.
1497. Then they came to your house to get refreshments?-Yes.
1498. And they sometimes paid you for the which they got?-Yes; I was always paid for the tea which I gave them in that way.
1499. Did you sell it to them in quarter pounds or smaller quantities?-Smaller quantities.
1500. Do you make a profit off that?-I get money for that, but I cannot say that I make a profit. Sometimes I had people working for me, to whom I gave a quarter pound of tea.
1501. When you got two quarter pounds, would you sell one quarter entire?-Yes. When people were working for me, then I had to give them a quarter of a pound of tea in order to pay them, because I did not have money to give them.
1502. What people had you working for you?-I have sometimes been sick, and I have had a person attending upon me, because I am not healthy; and I had to pay these persons in tea.
1503. Are you a married woman?-No.
1504. Have you a house of your own?-Yes; a room.
1505. The entries in this book only come down to February 1870. Have you had no book since then?-No.
1506. Have you still been dealing with Mr. Linklater?-No; I have been working for myself with my own worsted. That was when I stopped knitting for him.
1507. I see an entry on September 9th 1868, Tea 10d., tea 8d., 1s. 6d.: would these be two quarter pounds of tea of different quality?-Sometimes they would be that, and sometimes not.
1508. But I am speaking of that particular entry. Was it so in that, case?-I cannot remember.
1509. But when you got tea at 10d. and tea at 8d., that must have been two quarter pounds of different qualities?-Yes; I would get better tea, and tea that was not so good.
1510. When you got them on the same day, would you be intending to sell one of them?-Yes.
1511. Is that a common practice, to get two quarter pounds of tea and to sell one of them, or to get several quarter pounds in payment for your shawl?-No; I just got it as I asked for it.