CHAPTER XII.

Discussion in Franklin—Justice of God—What the Gospel Is?—Society Organized—Discourse on Total Depravity—Conversation with a Presbyterian Minister on Christian Rewards—Talk with a Catholic—A Methodist—A Presbyterian—A Campbellite—Salvation—A Mormon Sermon—Reply to It—A Journey to Louisville and Cincinnati.

While I resided in Terre Haute, I had a debate in Franklin, Ind., with A. L. Edmonds, on the final destiny of man. The discussion continued four days. Mr. Edmonds dwelt long and emphatically on theJusticeof God—claimed that it required the endless wretchedness of offenders. I replied as follows, and he dropped that subject:

It is said thatJusticerequires the endless suffering of some men. That, although the goodness, mercy, and benevolence of the Deity may be in favor of the ultimate happiness of all men, yet his justice requires that the wicked, who die in their sins, should be doomed to suffer unending torment. The system of faith into which is incorporated, as one of its parts, the doctrine of endless punishment, suspends the final state of men upon theconditionthey are in when they leave this world. The question is not how they havelived, but how they havedied. This is the point—the pivot—upon which is made to turn the immortal destinies of men. No matter how sinful a man may live all his life—“though as wicked as Cain, and corrupt as Mary Magdalene with her seven devils,” if he onlyrepent, believe in the Lord Jesus—join the church—or, in fine, “get religion” just before he dies, all will be well with him—his reward will be heaven. While on the other hand, no matter how moral, upright and godly a man may live,though he may have known andobeyedthe Scriptures from his youth up to a good old age, discharged all his duties as a humble and faithful Christian, and been the means of blessing hundreds of his fellow beings, both temporally and spiritually; yet, “if he fall from grace,” and become a sinner, even but one day before his death, and die in that state, he, poor old man, must go to hell!

This is a briefly drawn picture of the system advocated by that class of men whichseemto be such sticklers for justice. If any should say such a system is opposed to reason, the Bible, and every principle of justice and rectitude, all I have to say is, I can’t help it. But it is nevertheless a true and faithful representation, so far as it goes, of the orthodox plan of salvation anddamnation—“nothing extenuated, nor aught set down in malice.” Nor all its advocates can do, will ever be sufficient, to make the system appear anything different from this representation. Indeed, I do not think they willtryto do it,—theybelieveandunderstandit, as I have described it. Let it stand so then, as good and wholesome Orthodoxy, while I instance a few cases for illustration, that we may be the better enabled to see some of the monstrosities and legitimate conclusions which must forever follow from the above admitted premises.

1. Charles and Henry were brothers—twin brothers; they lived together until they had attained their twentieth year, when Charles died; and as he had made no profession of religion, he was sentenced to endless pains. Had Henry died at the same time, he would have shared a similar doom, for he was as destitute of religion as his brother; luckily for him, however, he lived until his seventieth year, during the whole of which time he was in an unconverted state, except the last six months; for the last six months he had lived a pious life, and consequently was admitted, after his death, to heaven.

“The punishment of sin,” saith my friend, “does not take place here, but is deferred until the sinner reaches the spiritual world.” Consequently, Henry received no punishment in this world, for his long career of sinfulness; and it will not be pretended that he received it after he arrived in heaven—he was therefore not punished at all. But how fares it with his brother Charles? He, poor fellow, must welter in quenchless flames, for the crimes of his brief existence. Has God rendered to these twins according to justice?

2. Two young men attempt the murder of a man for money, and while engaged in the foul deed, one of them is killed accidentally, by his comrade, from the discharge of a pistol, and, of course, goes immediately to hell—to an endless hell? The other succeeds in assassinating his victim—takes his money, which is sufficient to purchase a vessel; one is procured, and after obtaining a crew to his mind, he launches forth upon the “great deep,” an abandoned pirate. Hark! do you hear those cries which float upon the night air of the South Sea? They come from a ship in distress. Hark again! those were the cries of women; the young mother, and the “gay guiltless” maiden are there. The youth and the man of gray hairs—but the sounds of lamentation have ceased—all is over with them. The pirate ship has been there, and the unfortunate have all been doomed; for alas, they had no religion. Forty years pass, and the pirate is arraigned before a tribunal of justice—is condemned—and confesses that, besides the innumerable abominations he has committed in his long life of wickedness, he has been accessory to the murder of four hundred persons! What must be done with him? hell is too good for him! Yes, hell is too good for him, and, of course, he must go to heaven. A few days are given him—he repents—and swings from the gallows off to glory. There,from his exalted station of bliss, he looks down into the abodes of the damned, and sees scores of immortal, wretched beings, sent there by his own hands. Among his unfortunate victims, he sees the innocent girl of sixteen, and the gray-headed father—and there, too, is his first companion of crime, who fell ere he completed his first deed of wickedness. Is this justice? the justice of an infinitely just God? Oh mockery!

3. Two men—A and B—avowed enemies, meet in the street. Each is armed with a rifle, and each makes ready to dispatch his enemy. A presents his gun—it snaps; the cap was out of order. In an instant B takes a deadly aim, his rifle discharges, and A is a dead man. B is arrested, condemned and dies; but, as in all such cases, he repented in time to secure heaven, as a reward! Now if A’s gun had not missed fire, he would have killed B, and, of course, sent him to hell, while he might have repented and gone to heaven. But he, poor fellow, must go to hell, merely for the want of a good cap!

The most abandoned wretch that ever disgraced humanity, can, according to this bankrupt system, obtain an easy passport to heaven, by a few minutes repentance just before he dies, while the moral, good, virtuous, humane, yea, the faithful Christian—the laborer in the cause of his Master—though he hath worn out a long life in warning his fellows, and inducing them to reform; though he has, according to Orthodoxy, been the means of converting hundreds to the belief and practice of the Christian religion, yet, if in an evil hour, he be drawn from the path of rectitude—become a sinner, and die suddenly, without time to repent, he goes to an endless hell! Oh, what justice! what consistency! Orthodoxy, thou artnota jewel!

Orthodoxy may sing her siren song the world over, it will not alter facts; men are punished here for theirsins; and the worst of it all is, that these poor wretches, who have been deceived by the song, and thereby led into sin, still receive their punishment before they die, and often without knowing that it is the reward of their own doings! They will charge their suffering to a cruel fate, hard fortune, or some other cause, not knowing that the hand of a just God is upon them! But whether men believe it or not, if they do wrong, they must and will receive their reward; and if their experience fails to undeceive them, it may serve to convince those who live after them, that there “is a God who judgeth in the earth,” and that “he cannot do iniquity.”

I closed my last speech on the last proposition as follows: I am now nearly through with my part in this debate. I have presented the gospel to you the past four days as I truly believe it. The wordgospelsignifiesgood news; and it is good news from God to man, from heaven to earth. It tells us,

1. That God is the Father of mankind. “Have we notallone Father?” Addressing Pagans in Athens, the Gentile apostle said, “We are the offspring of God.” Jesus instructs us to pray, “Our Father, who art in heaven.” And he also teaches that our heavenly Father’s love for us far exceeds the earthly parent’s love for his offspring. And the God who inspired him and his apostles to utter such noble sentiments, hath said, “The mother may forget her child but I will not forget you.” Is not this good news to the sons and daughters of earth? We are passing away from our earthly friends, and they are daily leaving us; and is it not a blessed assurance that we have an ever living and ever present Friend, who will never leave nor forsake us? Is not this hope good toliveby—good todieby?

2. This same gospel also proclaims the good news of eternal life and a blissful immortality for mankind. We are the children of God, created in his image,partake of his immortal nature; and, commencing our existence in the bud of being, in the cradle of all life, are destined to manifest more and more the divinity of our nature, as the eternal ages bear us onward and upward.

3. And from these cardinal truths, the New Testament draws the logical inference, that we should love the Lord our God with all our heart, soul and strength, and our fellow men as ourself. God is the Father of all, and his love extends to all, and hence we should be loving and dutiful children. We all belong to one family, are members of one household, and hence we should be kind, forbearing, and forgiving to each other. This is the gospel in letter and spirit, in theory and practice; and nothing but this is the gospel. It is all embraced in the wordlove—a little word, but the length, breadth, and depth of the universe are required to express its meaning. God is love, his purpose is love, and love will bless his children while immortality endures.

But there is not a drop of love, nor a note of glad tidings in my opponent’s creed. It proclaims it to be the purpose of the Almighty to consign millions of mankind to regions of eternal sorrow, darkness and death; and those who may escape that dreadful doom, unless they have hearts of demons, will forever deplore the sad fate of their earthly associates—those they were required to love as themselves. The words love, goodness, mercy, justice, gospel, good news, glad tidings, should be all stricken from the Bible, if Mr. Edmonds’ creed is true, and words that savor of fire and brimstone, should take their places. Yea, the sun, moon and stars, the refreshing shower, the genial breeze, and productive earth, should all tell us of fire and fury, instead of love, goodness and justice, if eternal woe is to be the doom of half of mankind. If this terrible dogma is true, it seems to me, that on the blazing disc of the sun should be written in charactersas black as midnight—endless woe; on the pale face of the moon, and on every twinkling star—endless woe, that all might read their doom from night to morn, from morn to night; and that every breeze that blows, should scream in our ears so loud that the dead might hear—endless woe. But thank heaven, God is love, the gospel is good news, and these malignant creeds are false.

A large number of clergymen of different orders attended the discussion, and they held evening meetings during the progress of the debate, but all parties were silent on the subjects that were discussed during the day. The disputants were kind and courteous towards each other, and their christian spirit pervaded the hearers of all creeds. A society was organized in Franklin the day after the debate closed, it being Sunday, and I preached in the place monthly for one year. But the distance was too far for me to continue the visits, and as no one could be obtained to take my place, meetings were suspended. The good cause has suffered all over the West for want of competent ministers to supply the wants of the people. If a dozen faithful pastors had been located in Indiana in those days, liberal societies would now have been well organized and permanently established all over the state. In Franklin, Columbus, Martinsville, Gosport, Bloomington, Greencastle, Ladoga, Crawfordsville, Perrysville, Covington, Lafayette, Fort Wayne, Richmond, Madison, and in many other places where we have no organizations, flourishing and influential societies would now be established. But ministers could not be obtained, and hence much of the labor of the missionary was of but little avail. Having a paper on my hands, I was obliged to travel far and near to sustain it, and could not devote much time at any one place.

A few days after this discussion, I delivered several sermons in Edinburg; and one of them was preachedin the Methodist meeting-house, and the subject, at the request of the pastor, was “Total Depravity.” The following is the gist of the discourse:

I will first show by the advocates of total depravity, what they mean by it. The “Presbyterian Confession of Faith” thus defines it: “The sinfulness of estate whereinto man fell, consisteth in the guilt of Adam’s first sin, the want of that righteousness wherein he was created, and the corruption of his nature, whereby he is utterly indisposed, disabled, and made opposite to all that is spiritually good, and wholly inclined to all evil, and that continually.”

The “Shorter Catechism” says: “The sinfulness of that estate whereinto man fell, consists in theguilt of Adam’s first sin, the want of original righteousness, and the corruption of his whole nature.”

The “Baptist Philadelphia Confession” tells us that “Our first parents, by this sin, fell from their original righteousness and communion with God, and we in them, whereby death came upon all, all becoming dead in sin, andwhollydefiled in all the faculties and parts of soul and body.”

The “Methodist Discipline” says: “Original sin standeth not in the following of Adam, (as the Pelagians do vainly talk) but it is the corruption of the nature of every man, that is naturally engendered of the offspring of Adam, whereby man is very far gone from original righteousness, and of hisown nature inclined to evil, and that continually.”

John Calvin, in his explanation of this doctrine, says: “Original sin seems to be the inheritable perverseness and corruption of our nature, poured abroad inall parts of the soul, which first makes us deserving of God’s wrath, and then also bringeth forth those works in us, called in Scripture, the works of the flesh. These two things are distinctly to be noted, that is, that, being thus in all parts of our nature perverted and corrupted, we are now, even forsuch corruption, only holden worthy of damnation,” etc.

W. W. Perkins: “In reprobate infants, the execution of God’s decree is this: as soon as they are born, for the guilt of original and actual sin, being left in God’s secret judgment unto themselves, they dying are rejected of God forever.”

Twiss: “Every man that is damned, is damned for original as well as actual sins, and many thousand infants,only for original.”

Arthur Hildersham: “There is in them (infants) a natural proneness, disposition and inclination to every thing that is evil; as there is in the youngest lion, or of a bear, or of a wolf, unto cruelty, or in the egg of a cockatrice, before it is hatched. You have heard it evidently proved, 1. That all infants are sinners and deserve damnation. 2. That many infants have been vessels of wrath and fire-brands of hell.”

Here we have a full, clear, perfect definition of total depravity, as held by Presbyterians, Baptists and Methodists. It is here taught that all mankind are bynature, “utterly indisposed, disabled, and made opposite to all that is good, and wholly inclined to all evil.” Every human being, according to this theory, that God ever made, is “wholly inclined toall evil”—to lying, cheating, stealing, murdering, etc., etc., etc. All men, then, by nature are liars, thieves, and murderers. This is the character of every infant when it is born into this world. Mark the words, “There is in infants a natural proneness, disposition and inclination toevery thing that is evil; as there is in the youngest lion, or of the bear, or of the wolf, unto cruelty, or in the egg of the cockatrice before it be hatched,” and hence the writer adds, “1. All infants aresinners, and deserve damnation. 2. That many infants have been vessels of wrath and fire-brands of hell.”

If these are correct views of human nature, for sixthousand years God has been creating totally depraved beings—thieves, liars, assassins, murderers. God is the source whence all crime flows, for he creates all mankindvillains; gives them all an “inclination to all evil.” And this is not the worst of it—all deserve everlasting damnation, because God created them inclined to villainy of every name and grade. The definition of depravity given above, means all this, says all this, and to be a true Presbyterian, Baptist, or Methodist, one must believe all this. But we ask, who really believes a word of it? Who believes that God is the monster these creeds represent? Who believes that he has cursed us all with an infernal nature, and will then damn millions forever and ever, for being cursed with such a nature? Where is the mother who really believes that her infant is totally depraved, wholly “inclined to all evil,” “a fire-brand of hell,” and “deserves damnation?” People may subscribe to such horrid notions, preach them, and try to defend them, but who really, heart and soul, believes them?

If mankind believed that their fellow men were totally depraved, it would destroy all confidence between man and man. Who would trust a fellow that he believed was by nature “wholly inclined to all evil?” Who would employ such a physician, lawyer or clerk? Who would trust such a banker, or commission merchant? Who would ride on a railroad, or sail in a vessel, that he believed was run by such wretches? If men really believed in total depravity, they would tremble with fear by day and by night. They would shun each other as they shun a deadly serpent. And if that dogma is true, there would be no virtue, truth, purity in the world, but crime of every name and grade would reign supreme. God would not be known, and a devil would be universally worshiped.

And then what wonderful transformations, according to the creeds, have sin and grace wrought inhuman nature. God created man perfect in holiness and righteousness. Human nature was then all divine; not a spot nor a blemish in it. Every faculty of the mind was in perfect harmony with every other faculty. Angelic harmony reigned in the soul. But the devil in the shape of an ugly serpent, in one moment, ruined the best, the most perfect of God’s works, and for the creation of which he had exercised his greatest skill. And how easy it was effected. One temptation was presented and the work was done. Why, even some of those who are said to be totally depraved, and fire-brands of hell, often resist temptation. But mother Eve, holy and divine as she was, succumbed at the first attack, and soon caused her heroic husband to do likewise. This one sin transformed Adam and Eve into devils, and caused all their progeny down through a thousand generations to be born devils, “vessels of wrath,” “fire-brands of hell,” and “wholly inclined to all evil.” Their nature became entirely changed—changed from angelic purity to total depravity. According to this theory, sin is far more potent than grace. One sin committed by one person, ruined countless millions—unborn countless millions of mankind; but the grace of God in one soul sanctifies only that one soul, and perhaps not that one permanently; he may fall from grace. One sin ruined the world, but all the power, wisdom, and grace of heaven will fail to redeem it.

And then by doing so and so, it is said another change is wrought in our nature—we are restored to the divine likeness, to the purity and holiness Adam enjoyed before his fall. This theory of the change of man’s nature from purity to depravity, and from depravity to purity, is all a fiction. If the nature of man can change from the divine to the infernal, why not change from a man to ahorse? The truth is, the nature of nothing changes from God down to theworm. Every mineral, plant and animal has received a definite nature, and never changes one iota. So with men, theirnatureis unchangeable—soul and body then are the same yesterday, to-day and forever. The body may be diseased to-day, but by proper means it may be restored to health, but its nature is not changed. So the mind, the soul, may be disordered, and by moral means may be restored to a healthy condition, but itsnatureis not changed. I am aware that several passages of Scripture are adduced to sustain this terrible theology of innate total depravity, and I will briefly show that they refer to nothing of the kind.

1. “Behold, I was shapen in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.” Psalm. li. 5. There is nothing here about total depravity, or about our nature being “wholly inclined to all evil.” All inherit tendencies to evil and to good, for mankind are imperfect. We inherit these tendencies, not from Adam, but from our immediate parents. Such biases areconstitutional, not down deep in man’snature. Besides, we are not to understand these words strictly literal. David uttered them in a season of great debasement. They are hyperbolical like the following: “I am poured out like water; and all my bones are out of joint; my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.” “And my bones are consumed.” “All my bones shall say, Lord, who is like unto thee.” “I am a worm and not man.” All this is to be understood figuratively.

2. “Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean thing? Not one.” Job xiv. 4. Of course, themoral characterof many is unclean, but what does that prove about theirnature? It does not intimate that any one isbornunclean.

3. “And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thought of his heart was only evil continually.” Gen.vi. 5. This simply means that the antediluvians were a very wicked people; not that they were born totally depraved, for in the 12th verse it is said, that “all fleshhad corrupted his way,” which it could not have done if the Creator had made “all flesh” totally corrupt at its birth. They were corrupt by practice, not by nature.

4. “The heart of man is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked; who can know it?” Jer. xvii. 9. The prophet is speaking of the sin of Judah. In the first verse he says, “The sin of Judah is written with a pen of iron, and with the point of a diamond; it is graven upon the table of their hearts, and upon the horns of your altars.” It was not the sin of Adam entailed upon them, it was their own sin, the sin of Judah. They had corrupted their hearts, had departed from virtue’s ways, and had become “desperately wicked.” We see nothing here about being created totally depraved.

5. “They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there are none that doeth good, no, not one.” Rom. ii. 12. This passage clearly proves that men, in the days of St. Paul, had corrupted themselves, not that they were born totally corrupt. They had “goneout of the way,” notborn“out of the way.” They had “becomeunprofitable,” notborn“unprofitable.” “Their throat is an open sepulcher, their mouth is full of cursing and bitterness, their feet is swift to shed blood.” Verses 12, 14, 15. Is this true ofinfants? We know it is not. He is not speaking then of man’s condition bynaturebut bypractice. In the preceding chapter the apostle says, “For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do bynaturethe things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves, which shows the works of the law writtenin their hearts.” Wicked as men were in those days, “deceitful” as were their hearts, and “desperately wicked,”the law of God was written in their hearts, and they often did by nature, proving that their nature was not totally depraved, “the things contained in the law.”

These are the principle passages that the advocates of total depravity cite to sustain their theory; but it is evident they fall far short of proving any thing of the kind. They prove, what all know to be true, that mankind have voluntarily corrupted themselves—some more and some less. None are perfect, none are totally depraved, and there are all grades and degrees, from the best man to the worst man. And as we corrupt ourselves, we can reform ourselves. Corruption and purity, right and wrong, evil and good, life and death, salvation and damnation, heaven and hell, are set before us, and we have the ability to turn from the wrong and lay hold on the good. But the terrible theory, that we inherit by nature, corruption, evil, death, damnation, and hell, from Adam, that they permeate our very nature, corrupt the very springs of our life, constituting us “fire-brands of hell,” and that nothing but a miracle by Almighty God can purify us, and save us from endless burnings, I reject as utterly false and monstrous.

“There’s the marble, there’s the chisel;Take them, work them to thy will;Thou alone must shape thy future,—Heaven give thee strength and skill.”

“There’s the marble, there’s the chisel;

Take them, work them to thy will;

Thou alone must shape thy future,—

Heaven give thee strength and skill.”

While in Edinburg, I had some conversation with a Presbyterian minister on religious subjects. “Why,” said he, “you contend that Christians are rewarded in this world for their piety and virtue. I dissent from you. The Bible teaches me, that Christians are crushed to earth by the cross they bear. Sinners have no such burden to carry.”

I remarked: “It is true that the early Christians, by their enthusiasm in the Christian cause, oftenincurred the wrath of Jews and Pagans, and were sometimes roughly handled. But this was not done because they were good men and women, but because they were deemed enemies of truth and righteousness—fanatics of a dangerous creed and party. The world did not know that it was opposing God’s noblemen, and the highest religious and moral truths, hence Christ, when in the agonies of death from the hands of the unbelieving multitude, cried, ‘Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.’ The trials, hardships and persecutions they suffered, were incidental to the times, and are not the legitimate results of a holy life.

“And here you mistake, my friend. You suppose that the suffering they endured are the natural sequence of a divine life. In that you greatly err. The advocates of any unpopular cause, let it be good or bad, right or wrong, are sure to encounter opposition. Especially was this so in the early days of the Christian era. The nations of the earth, in those times, were ignorant, intolerant, cruel, and bloody—much more so than at the present time. The early Christians laid hold of the religious creeds of their day with a strong hand, tore them to atoms, and scattered them to the four winds. This was more than the adherents of those creeds could bear, and according to the intolerant and cruel spirit of the times, they pursued the enemies of their ancient faith with fire and sword. The Christian cause was unpopular; the Christians were an insignificant minority, and the dominant party could not brook their zeal for what they regarded to be a wretched delusion.

“Christianity is now popular among the civilized nations of the earth, and its advocates are very differently situated from what they were eighteen hundred years ago. There is now no cross for them to bear, as that term was understood in the apostolic times. Those who come nearest to bearing it in this country,are those who ‘trust in the living God as the savior of all men.’ They are often contemptuously, cruelly treated by the dominant parties; but thank God, if they are inclined to revive the old persecutions, they have not the power to do so. But the truly good in all ages and climes, are blessed, let their outward circumstances be what they may. Virtue is a divine fount, whence flows the elixir of life; a tree whose fruit heals the nations. The good man’s soul is in harmony with truth and righteousness; he lives an harmonious, heavenly life.”

“But I cannot see that there is as much difference in the happiness of saints and sinners, as there is in their character. The latter seem to enjoy themselves quite as well as the former, and sometimes even better.”

“If the Bible is any authority, you are much mistaken. The wicked, in that book, are said to be ‘servants,’ ‘captives,’ ‘strangers,’ ‘foreigners,’ ‘wandering prodigals;’ Christians are said to be ‘children,’ ‘freemen,’ ‘fellow-citizens of the household of God,’ ‘obedient children at home.’ The wicked are represented as ‘bearing a heavy burden,’ ‘weary,’ ‘condemned,’ ‘dead,’ ‘blind,’ ‘hungry,’ ‘poor,’ ‘thirsty,’ ‘miserable;’ but Christians as ‘entering into rest,’ being ‘justified,’ ‘alive,’ seeing ‘the Son of righteousness,’ ‘eating the bread of God,’ drinking ‘the water of life,’ possessing ‘all things,’ and rejoicing ‘in the hope of the glory of God.’ The difference between the two classes is clearly expressed thus: ‘There isno peaceto the wicked’—‘Great peacehave they that love thy law.’

“Truly hath the poet said:

“‘Heaven is not a region in the air,Nor hell a gulf we know not where;But heaven is where love and wisdom dwell,Their absence ’tis that makes a hell.Love absent—hatred enters in,Guilt and revenge, and every sin;Its smoke of torment still ascends—The deathless worm that never ends,—Till “death itself shall die.”’

“‘Heaven is not a region in the air,

Nor hell a gulf we know not where;

But heaven is where love and wisdom dwell,

Their absence ’tis that makes a hell.

Love absent—hatred enters in,

Guilt and revenge, and every sin;

Its smoke of torment still ascends—

The deathless worm that never ends,—

Till “death itself shall die.”’

“Theouter lifeof the good and bad, may be much alike, but theirinner lifeis vastly different. Into one the sunshine of heaven is poured, and perpetual summer reigns; into the other, darkness has free access, and winter storms ever howl.”

Returning to Terre Haute on horseback, had some interesting talk with my fellow travelers. The first was a Catholic.

“What shall I do to be saved?” I inquired.

“Believe in the Holy Catholic Church, and obey it in all things.”

“But cannot one be saved without being a Catholic? If one believes in God, Christ, and obeys the divine law, cannot he be saved if he is not a Catholic?”

“It is possible he may be; but it is not safe to rest one’s eternal all on such ground. The church is the door into heaven, and I have no evidence a soul can be saved without passing through that door. You Protestants have great expectations of reaching heaven, but I am fearful most of you will land where ‘the worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.’”

The landlord of the house where I dined, was a zealous Methodist. “What shall I do to be saved?” I asked.

“Believe in the Lord Jesus.”

“What must one believe concerning him?”

“That he is the second person in the adorable trinity, and willing and able to save all who come to him.”

“Cannot one be saved without believing that Jesus is the second person in the trinity?”

“No. If you do not believe that, you are an infidel, and no infidel can be saved.”

“Do you think Catholics can be saved?”

“My bar-room will hold all the Catholics who will be saved. And as for their popes, bishops and priests—I would not give a fig for their chance. Infidelity is bad enough, but popery is worse.”

In the afternoon, I fell in company with a Presbyterian, and asked him, “What I should do to be saved?”

“Believe in Christ.”

“What must I believe concerning Christ?”

“That he will save all he died for.”

“How many did he die for?”

“‘Are therefewthat be saved?’ ‘Strive to enter in at the strait gate, for narrow is the gate and strait is the way that leadeth to life andfewthere be that find it.’ These scriptures teach that only a small part of mankind are embraced in the covenant of grace.”

Soon after parting with this man, I fell in company with a Campbellite, and I asked, “What must one do to be saved?”

“Believe, be baptized, and repent.”

“Do you mean that no one can be saved hereafter, without faith, baptism, and repentance in this world?”

“I have no evidence that any can.”

Alas! I mentally exclaimed, how selfish, contracted and partial are the creeds of men. The Catholic consigns all to hell outside of his church; the Methodist sends all to perdition who do not believe that Jesus is the eternal God; the Presbyterian condemns all to everlasting burnings, but the elect few; the Campbellite has no hope for any beyond the grave, who do not adhere to his creed, and take water. The truth concerning salvation, is all embraced in a few words. Jesus said, “Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, soul, and strength, and thy neighbor as thyself.” And one of his apostles testifies that “Love is the fulfilling of the law.” Whoever lives in harmony with this law is saved, let hisfaith be what it may, and let him belong to what party he may, or to no party. This is my faith with reference to salvation, and does it not infinitely better correspond with reason, and the character of God, than the narrow contracted systems just stated by their advocates?

Where I stopped over night, I heard a Mormon deliver a discourse in defence of Mormonism. He was an able man, well educated; and he proved as clear as mud that the Latter-Day Saints are heaven’s peculiar favorites. Every good Mormon, when he dies, we were told, is transported to one of the stars, and becomes its king, and will there reign over its inhabitants in regal splendor forever and ever. But anti-Mormons are consigned to the infernal regions of Pluto, to be his subjects eternally. He also told us, that Christ would come to this earth personally within a few years. “I expect,” said he, “to live to witness his second advent. He will be a Mormon, and will empower us to destroy the Gentiles; and when the work shall be well done, the Saints will possess the land. I warn you to flee from the wrath to come; accept of mercy while mercy is offered you; for when Jesus comes, he will shut the door, and your doom will be sealed.” He pretended to be able to work miracles, and an old gentleman in the congregation arose and wished him to restore his sight. “Do you believe I can?” asked the speaker. “I will believe you can when you do the work,” the old gentleman replied. “But do you believenowthat I can?” “No, sir.” “Then I will not restore your sight.”

As soon as he was through the crowd cried, “Manford! Manford! Manford!” I begged to be excused, but the people insisted that I should pitch into Mormonism, and I finally spent an hour in reviewing it, and the discourse just delivered. I commenced by remarking, that I wished to make one statement, and to ask the speaker one question. Jesus told his discipleson one occasion, that some of them would live to see him come the second time, (Matt. xvi. 28) and he intimated to Peter that John would be living when he would come. (John xxi. 23). “Now you,” addressing the preacher, “told us, that coming has not taken place, but will take place in a short time. The question I wish to ask is this:

“Is Johnnow living?”

“He is,” replied the Mormon.

“Where is he?” I inquired.

“Up North, somewhere. We know he is living, for we have a document signed by him.”

“Will you please show me that document.”

“It is not in my possession; our prophet has it.”

I then gave the history of the rise and progress of Mormonism; exposed its knavery, imposture, polygamy. The Mormons present became very angry, and one coarse-looking fellow shook his fist in my face. That was the first and last time I ever came in contact with Mormons. I was probably too severe in my remarks; but I was so disgusted at the man’s defense of Mormonism, I gave free utterance to my indignation.

Self and Mrs. Manford journeyed to Cincinnati. We traveled in a buggy, and had a delightful jaunt, as the weather was pleasant, the roads good, and friends plentiful—all except the last, in striking contrast with the other journey we took—the bridal tour. We were absent three weeks, and I preached nearly every day. Attended the annual meeting of the Indiana State Convention, where we met many friends from different portions of the state. Then proceeded to Louisville, Ky., and attended the annual convocation of the Kentucky State Convention. From thence journeyed to Cincinnati, where I bought printing materials for theTeacher, and then returned home.

Back to Index Next