Mr.Belin. You saw a man in the lineup?
Mr.Scoggins. Yes.
Mr.Belin. Did anyone tell you any particular man was Oswald in the lineup?
Mr.Scoggins. No.
Mr.Belin. Well, describe what happened in the police station with regard to the lineup, what they did to you, what they said to you, and what you said to them, and so on.
Mr.Scoggins. Well, they had the four men up there in the lineup, and before they brought them in they told us what they wanted us to do, to look them over and be sure we was, in our estimation, we was right on the man, and which one it was, the one that we saw, the one that I saw.
Mr.Belin. Did they tell you one of the men was the man you saw or not, or did they tell you "See if you can"—just what did they say? Did they say "Here is a lineup, see if you can identify anyone," or did they say, "One of the men in thelineup"——
Mr.Scoggins. Yes, I believe those are the words they used. I amnot——
Mr.Belin. Did all of these men look different to you? Were most of them fat, or were most of them thin, or some fat, some thin, some tall, some short?
Mr.Scoggins. There were two of them—the one that I identified as the one I saw over at Oak Cliff, and there was one I saw similar to him, and the other two was a little bit shorter.
Mr.Dulles. Had you been looking at television or seeing television prior to your appearance here at the lineup?
Mr.Scoggins. No.
Mr.Dulles. You had not?
Mr.Scoggins. No, sir.
RepresentativeFord. Had you been working this Saturday morning with your cab?
Mr.Scoggins. Yes, sir.
RepresentativeFord. In other words, you went to work Saturday morning at the regular time?
Mr.Scoggins. Yes.
RepresentativeFord. And were working when they asked you to come down to the cab stand to go over to the police station?
Mr.Scoggins. Yes, sir.
RepresentativeFord. All right.
Mr.Belin. Had you seen any pictures of Lee Harvey Oswald in the newspapers prior to the time you went to the police station lineup?
Mr.Scoggins. I think I saw one in the morning paper.
Mr.Belin. Do you subscribe to the morning or evening paper?
Mr.Scoggins. I take the evening paper myself.
Mr.Belin. You went down and bought a morning paper?
Mr.Scoggins. No; I didn't go out. I was looking at one of the—some of the cab drivers had it.
Mr.Belin. Did you see any television picture on the morning of November 23 of Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mr.Scoggins. I have never until this day seen it.
Mr.Belin. On television?
Mr.Scoggins. I never have.
RepresentativeFord. Do you have a television in your home?
Mr.Scoggins. Yes sir; I do. But I don't—when I get home I will read the paper, and after you work about 12 hours you don't feel like fooling around with television too much.
Mr.Belin. What number man in the lineup did you identify as having seen on November 22?
Mr.Scoggins. Number 3.
Mr.Belin. Did you have the man turn around, or couldyou——
Mr.Scoggins. Yes, they turned him around.
Mr.Belin. Did they turn just one man around or all of them?
Mr.Scoggins. No; they had them all.
Mr.Belin. Do you remember if the number 3 man in the lineup was wearing the same clothes that the man you saw at the Tippit shooting wore?
Mr.Scoggins. He had on a different shirt, and he didn't have a jacket on. He had on kind of a polo shirt.
Mr.Belin. Before you went to view the lineup, did any of the police officers show you a picture of this man?
Mr.Scoggins. No.
Mr.Belin. Sometime later, after the lineup, did any investigator come up to you with a picture of anyone and ask you if you could identify him?
Mr.Scoggins. Yes.
Mr.Belin. Do you remember if he was an FBI man or a Dallas policeman or a Secret Service agent?
Mr.Scoggins. He was an FBI or a Secret Service.
Mr.Belin. What did he ask you and what did you tell him?
Mr.Scoggins. He gave me some pictures, showed me several pictures there, which was, some of them were, pretty well resembled him, and some of them didn't, and they looked like they was kind of old pictures, and I think I picked the wrong picture. I am nottoo——
Mr.Belin. What did he say to you and what did you say to him, if you remember?
Mr.Scoggins. I don't really—I know he showed me his credentials.
Mr.Belin. Did he say to you something like "These are pictures we have of Lee Harvey Oswald"? Did he use that name in front of you, or did he say, "Here are some pictures. See if you can identify them"—if you remember?
Mr.Scoggins. I don't remember, but after I got through looking at them and everything, and I says, I told them one of these two pictures is him, out of this group he showed me, and the one that was actually him looked like an older man than he was to me. Of course, I am not too much on identifying pictures. It wasn't a full shot of him, you know, and then he told me the other one was Oswald.
RepresentativeFord. Had you narrowed the number of pictures from more than two to two?
Mr.Scoggins. Yes.
RepresentativeFord. In other words, they showed you pictures of how many people altogether, how many different people, your best estimate?
Mr.Scoggins. I would say 4 or 5.
RepresentativeFord. And you narrowed the number of 4 or 5 down to 2?
Mr.Scoggins. Down to two; yes.
Mr.Belin. Mr. Scoggins, at the time of the shooting, did you see any pedestrians standing at the corner of East 10th and Patton, any of the corners there?
Mr.Scoggins. I didn't see anybody. I was kind of excited.
Mr.Belin. Did you see any other person walking along the street there?
Mr.Scoggins. Not at the time of the shooting, I didn't.
Mr.Belin. Is there anything you can think of that you haven't told us here that might be relevant to what you saw in connection with the Tippit shooting?
Mr.Scoggins. No, I can't—nothing that I know of. That is the first time I ever seen anything like that happen, and I was pretty well excited and mixed up, and not knowing what to do or what not to do. But actually, of course, right after the shooting, I saw a number of people come running over, you see, from everywhere.
Mr.Belin. Were they all men?
Mr.Scoggins. No, they were just people.
Mr.Belin. General Carr, do you have any questions?
Mr.Carr. No, sir. I was exploring with him, but I guess we won't get into it.
Mr.Belin. Those are all the questions I have. Just a second. When you saw a picture in the morning paper of Lee Harvey Oswald, did this look similar to the man you saw at the Tippit shooting, or did it look different?
Mr.Scoggins. I would say similar; yes.
Mr.Belin. Did it look like the same man?
Mr.Scoggins. Yes.
RepresentativeFord. What kind of eyesight do you have?
Mr.Scoggins. I had my eyes examined when I went to work for the cab company and the lady said I had remarkable eyesight. You know, they have—after I went to work, after a while, I had to go get my eyes examined.
RepresentativeFord. You had your eyes examined subsequent to your employment with the cab company?
Mr.Scoggins. Well, it was sometime after, maybe 6 months after.
Mr.Dulles. How many years ago was that?
Mr.Scoggins. Oh, about a year, approximately.
RepresentativeFord. At that time what did the eye examiner tell you?
Mr.Scoggins. She said I had excellent eyesight and vision.
RepresentativeFord. You don't wear glasses?
Mr.Scoggins. No.
RepresentativeFord. What about your hearing?
Mr.Scoggins. I can hear. I got good hearing. I never did have it examined or anything, but I can hear everything.
RepresentativeFord. Have you ever had any difficulty with the law, have you ever had any trouble with officers of the law?
Mr.Scoggins. I got a ticket for parking that I had to pay.
RepresentativeFord. That is a traffic violation.
Mr.Scoggins. Yes. No; I really haven't had any problems that amount to anything otherwise than traffic violations.
RepresentativeFord. Nothing other than traffic violations?
Mr.Scoggins. Well, I was picked up one time in New York City for stowing away on a tugboat.
Mr.Belin. Stowing away on a boat?
Mr.Scoggins. Actually whathappened——
Mr.Dulles. How old were you then?
Mr.Scoggins. 17 or 18. I was sleeping in a boxcar and they put that boxcar on a tugboat and sent it across the river.
Mr.Dulles. You stowed away without knowing it.
Mr.Scoggins. Yes.
Mr.Dulles. I don't think that is a very grave offense.
Mr.Scoggins. No. I never have been in any grave trouble.
Mr.Belin. One more question, Mr. Scoggins. You rode up here to Washington on an airplane with Mrs. Markham, did you not?
Mr.Scoggins. Yes.
Mr.Belin. Before you saw Mrs. Markham the other day, did you ever recognize her as having seen her from the time of the Tippit shooting at all or not?
Mr.Scoggins. Yes, I saw her down there talking to the policemen after I came back. You see. I saw her talking to them.
Mr.Belin. You never actually saw her standing on the street, did you?
Mr.Scoggins. I never actually observed her there.
Mr.Belin. All right.
Mr.Dulles. When you say, "I came back" is that when you got into your car?
Mr.Scoggins. After I had got in the car and toured the neighborhood and then the policemen came along and I left my cab setting down there and got in a car with them and left the scene.
Mr.Dulles. At what stage did you see Mrs. Markham?
Mr.Scoggins. After I had gotten back up there. After I had drove around in the neighborhood looking for Oswald or looking for this guy.
Mr.Dulles. It was after that?
Mr.Scoggins. It was after that.
(Discussion off the record.)
Mr.Belin. Mr. Scoggins, when you identified the man in the lineup at the police station on November 23, was there any other person who at the same time was asked to identify a man in that lineup?
Mr.Scoggins. Yes, one other.
Mr.Belin. Do you know—one other person?
Mr.Scoggins. Yes.
Mr.Belin. Do you know what that man's name is or what his occupation is?
Mr.Scoggins. Yes, he drives a taxicab.
Mr.Belin. Do you know his name?
Mr.Scoggins. Yes; his name is Bill Whaley.
Mr.Belin. Whaley?
Mr.Scoggins. I think it is Whaley. I didn't know him from Adam until that day, you know, and he said his name was Whaley.
Mr.Belin. When you were there and identified a man, had Whaley already identified that man or not? I mean, did you hear Whaley or see Whaley identify that man?
Mr.Scoggins. No. He was sitting over on my left.
Mr.Belin. He was on your left?
Mr.Scoggins. Yes. It was dark. They turned the lights out where we were sitting. We could see the man with lights up there.
Mr.Belin. Could you see Mr. Whaley at the time he made the identification?
Mr.Scoggins. Well, I suppose if I would have looked over there I could have seen that there was a man there, that I could have recognized him.
Mr.Belin. Were you looking at Mr. Whaley at the time?
Mr.Scoggins. No.
Mr.Belin. Did you make your identification by your voice or by your hands?
Mr.Scoggins. By my hands, using—I put up three fingers.
Mr.Belin. Did they tell you ahead of time to hold up the number of fingers for the man that you saw?
Mr.Scoggins. Yes, sir.
Mr.Belin. How many fingers did you hold up?
Mr.Scoggins. Three.
Mr.Belin. At the time you held up your three fingers, did you know how many fingers Mr. Whaley was holding up?
Mr.Scoggins. No.
Mr.Belin. Then did you know whether or not Mr. Whaley had identified the man?
Mr.Scoggins. No, I sure don't.
Mr.Belin. Was there any person or were there any persons standing between you and Mr. Whaley?
Mr.Scoggins. That I don't know because I did not look over there.
Mr.Dulles. Could Mr. Whaley, in your opinion, see you holding up these fingers?
Mr.Scoggins. No, no. I made sure of that because I had my hand down like this.
Mr.Belin. When you had your hand down you are putting it in front of your belt?
Mr.Scoggins. As well as I could remember I had it down kind of like this here. I don't know whether I used my right or my left hand, but I didn't hold up three fingers like this, but I held them down just about like this.
Mr.Belin. You are pointing to your right hand and putting it somewhat about a few inches above the buckle of your belt; is that about where you held up your fingers?
Mr.Scoggins. About as well as I could remember.
Mr.Belin. What happened after you held up your fingers, did someone see you holding your fingers up there?
Mr.Scoggins. Yes.
RepresentativeFord. Where were they standing beside you so that they could see your fingers?
Mr.Scoggins. Well, this gentleman was standing over back a piece to my left, sir.
RepresentativeFord. Was it close to you, sir?
Mr.Scoggins. There was one man on my right. He was Secret Service or FBI, I think FBI; and the other man was a policeman, Dallas policeman.
Mr.Dulles. Do you know whether Mr. Whaley was making his identification at the same time that you did or did he make it before or after?
Mr.Scoggins. No. All I know is that we viewed them at the same time.
Mr.Dulles. He viewed them at the same time?
Mr.Scoggins. Yes.
Mr.Dulles. You don't know at what time Mr. Whaley made his identification?
Mr.Scoggins. Yes.
Mr.Dulles. You didn't see him make the identification?
Mr.Scoggins. I didn't even see him.
Mr.Dulles. You don't know what his identification was?
Mr.Scoggins. No. I never asked him which one or nothing, because I never did discuss it with him at all after that.
RepresentativeFord. When you brought your cab up to the corner of 10th and Patton, did you just conclude or had you just concluded dropping a passenger?
Mr.Scoggins. Well, approximately five minutes before that.
RepresentativeFord. Do you keep a record of the trips that you take?
Mr.Scoggins. Yes, sir.
RepresentativeFord. During your working day?
Mr.Scoggins. Yes, sir. If I pick up a passenger, say, like 28 minutes to 12 o'clock, we put 20 minutes to 12. We don't put the odd minutes down.
If we let him out 2 minutes after 12, we put down 12 o'clock. I know I let him out at 1 o'clock, maybe a minute or two after. We do put the destination we leave from and the destination he is going to on our records sheet.
RepresentativeFord. What does your record show about this last trip?
Mr.Scoggins. Well, I picked him up at Love Field and carried him to 321 North Ewing, as well as I can remember now, that was the address.
RepresentativeFord. And your record shows that?
Mr.Scoggins. When I picked him up, the mileage started from, the mileage I let him out on the speedometer. When I picked him up we put the mileage down. We don't put the tenth down, and when we let him out we put the mileage and the time; and when we pick him up we put the mileage and the time, and the destination where we start and where we let him off, and the amount the fare was.
RepresentativeFord. And your last entry shows what for that day?
Mr.Scoggins. I don't know what the last entry was. Up until then that was the one where I let the man off at. It was an apartment building. Of course, I don't have the apartment number, anything like that. The guy says, "I want to go to 321 North Ewing," and that is where I take him. It is an apartment. Of course now, if somebody calls in for a cab at a certain address, if it is an apartment, they have to give their apartment number so we could find it.
RepresentativeFord. How far was this last destination to the point of 10th and Patton?
Mr.Scoggins. It was less than a mile, about a half mile or maybe—well, let's see, it was closer to a mile, I would say.
RepresentativeFord. Was there any particular reason why you went to the corner of 10th and Patton?
Mr.Scoggins. Yes. I belong to that club there, and I was going around there to get me a coca cola that I could have gotten anywhere else, but I know a lot of the guys.
RepresentativeFord. What is the club called?
Mr.Scoggins. It is a gentleman's club, a domino parlor where we play dominos.
RepresentativeFord. It is at what address?
Mr.Scoggins. 123 or 125 South Patton.
Mr.Belin. About where is it in relation to East 10th and Patton, how far away, a block, two blocks?
Mr.Scoggins. It is not a block. It is just about, I would say, just—if it was measured it would be a little over a half block from where I was parked at to the place, you see.
Mr.Belin. I wonder, perhaps, if we can see it on any of these pictures, Mr. Scoggins. Do you see it in this picture, Exhibit 530?
Mr.Scoggins. Yes; I can see the building.
Mr.Belin. Let's see the building here.
Mr.Scoggins. That is it up there.
Mr.Belin. I wonder if we can't, perhaps, put on Exhibit 530 an arrow which points to this building, and we will put "G" for the gentleman's club; is that correct? Is that the building to which you are referring?
Mr.Scoggins. Yes.
Mr.Belin. Mr. Scoggins, we have another picture that we would like to have you identify, Commission Exhibit 534. This is a picture in which the camera appears to be heading in what direction?
Mr.Scoggins. It would be heading east—I mean west on 10th Street.
Mr.Belin. That picture was taken the other day at the time you drove your cab back to that scene, is that correct?
Mr.Scoggins. I would think it was; yes.
Mr.Belin. Does this appear to be the position your cab was in at the time of the shooting of Officer Tippit?
Mr.Scoggins. Yes.
Mr.Belin. All right. At this time we offer and introduce into evidence all exhibits up through 534, except we do not have a 533 because we renumbered the original Exhibit 533, so we do not have a 533.
Do you have anything more, Congressman Ford?
RepresentativeFord. Those exhibits will be admitted.
(Items identified as Commission Exhibits through No. 534, with the exception of Exhibit No. 533, were admitted in evidence.)
Mr.Dulles. Mr. Scoggins, you have referred, I believe, to a conversation you had with Mr. Whaley, I think his name is, and I would like to have you just recount what you recall of what Mr. Whaley said to you, and where he said it, and at what time.
Mr.Scoggins. Well now, this conversation we are talking about, while we were down there waiting.
Mr.Dulles. Down where, down at the police station?
Mr.Scoggins. No; down at the cab office—it is a cab office at 610 South Akard Street, you know.
Mr.Dulles. A cab stand?
Mr.Scoggins. Yes. We call it our main office.
Mr.Dulles. And Mr. Whaley's cab belonged to the same company as your cab?
Mr.Scoggins. Yes, sir. Only he drives out of downtown, which office is 610 South Akard Street, that is the number. They have a building there, a large building, with all the dispatching offices and everything, and mine, of course,I have got the same dispatchers, we all belong to the same company. I drive an Oak Cliff cab, and he drives downtown.
Mr.Dulles. Relate what Mr. Whaley said to you.
Mr.Scoggins. He didn't relate it to me. He was talking to the others.
Mr.Dulles. He was talking to cabdrivers?
Mr.Scoggins. He was talking to one ofthe——
Mr.Dulles. Where did this take place?
Mr.Scoggins. It was down at the cabstand.
Mr.Dulles. Was this on Saturday after the assassination?
Mr.Scoggins. And he was telling them where he picked him up and where he took him to.
Mr.Dulles. And that is what you recall?
Mr.Scoggins. Yes; because I didn't know him. I wasn't acquainted with the man.
Mr.Dulles. You were not acquainted with Mr. Whaley?
Mr.Scoggins. No. Before he came down there that morning I wouldn't have known him from Adam, you know, just wouldn't have had any idea who he was.
Mr.Dulles. Would you recall what he said as to where he picked up the man and where he took him?
Mr.Scoggins. He said he picked him up at the Greyhound bus and carried him to a neighborhood, no particular address, on North Beckley, the 500 block.
Mr.Dulles. Have you anything more on that, Mr. Belin?
Mr.Belin. No, sir. I do have one other question.
Mr.Dulles. Proceed then.
Mr.Belin. Do you remember whether or not your dispatcher recorded any time on his sheets as to the time you called in after the Tippit shooting?
Mr.Scoggins. When I was down there giving my statement to my supervisor, he asked me what time it was, and I said I don't have any idea, so he picked up the phone and called the dispatcher, and he said it was 1:23.
Mr.Belin. That is the time that he recorded it?
Mr.Scoggins. Yes. He must have recorded it up there because he said it was 1:23 in the afternoon.
Mr.Belin. When you called in after the shooting?
Mr.Scoggins. Yes.
Mr.Dulles. Anything else?
Mr.Belin. No, sir.
Mr.Dulles. Any further questions? Well, thank you very much, Mr. Scoggins.
Mr.Dulles. You were sworn when you previously were before us, and this testimony of yours will be covered by the oath you previously have given. Will you be seated?
Mr.Ball. I have two Commission Exhibits, 535 and 536. I will show them to you, Mrs. Markham, and I will ask you if you have ever seen the man who is pictured there, whose picture is shown on these two exhibits.
Mrs.Markham. No.
Mr.Ball. Never have seen him before. Do you think he might have been one of the men you talked to before?
Mrs.Markham. No, no.
Mr.Ball. They are pictures of the same man.
Mrs.Markham. No.
Mr.Dulles. We are inquiring whether you had ever seen him after the assassination.
Mrs.Markham. Yes, I know. No; not this man. This man I have never seen—I have never seen this man in my life.
Mr.Ball. I have no further questions.
Mr.Dulles. Do you know who he is?
Mrs.Markham. No; I don't. It is just a picture of a man; I don't know him.
Mr.Dulles. Mr. Ball, do you have any further questions?
Mr.Ball. No further questions.
RepresentativeFord. Have you ever had any difficulty with the law, Mrs. Markham?
Mrs.Markham. No.
RepresentativeFord. None whatsoever?
Mrs.Markham. No, sir.
RepresentativeFord. Traffic violations?
Mrs.Markham. No, sir.
Mr.Dulles. You are lucky.
Mrs.Markham. I have never been in trouble.
RepresentativeFord. No difficulties whatsoever with the law?
Mrs.Markham. No, sir.
Mr.Ball. That is all, Mrs. Markham. You can be excused.
Mr.Dulles. Thank you very much, Mrs. Markham.
Mr.Ball. I offer Exhibits 535 and 536 in evidence at this time.
Mr.Dulles. They will be received.
(The items identified as Commission Exhibits Nos. 535 and 536 were received in evidence.)
Mr.Ball. They were taken from a newspaper, they were taken from newspaper accounts which purported to be, to show, the picture of a man named Mark Lane.
Mr.Dulles. Yes, because he appeared before this Commission, did he not?
Mr.Ball. Yes.
Mr.Dulles. Mr. Redlich, can you identify him? Were you present when Mr. Lane appeared before this Commission?
Mr.Redlich. Yes; I was.
Mr.Dulles. Can you identify these pictures as pictures of Mr. Lane?
Mr.Redlich. Yes; I can identify these as pictures of Mr. Lane. I would also like for the record to indicate where they came from. Commission Exhibit No. 535 is taken from—Commission Exhibit 536 came from the San Francisco Chronicle, and dated February 8, 1964, and purports to be a photograph of Mark Lane.
Commission No. 535 is a photograph from a newspaper clipping which was in the Commission files, and it is an Associated Press photograph, and appeared, it is taken from the New York Herald Tribune of March 5, 1964, and purports to be a photograph of Mark Lane. I have met Mr. Lane once or twice prior to his appearance before this Commission, and I was present during his testimony before this Commission.
Mr.Dulles. You identify these as pictures of Mr. Lane?
Mr.Redlich. These are photographs of Mark Lane.
Mr.Dulles. And these Exhibits 535 and 536 were the exhibits which were presented to Mrs. Markham?
Mr.Belin. I think the record should show how they were presented. They were clipped out so there was not any writing or anything to indicate whom they were pictures of on their face.
Mr.Dulles. That is on the record.
Mrs. Markham, there is a short question that Congressman Ford wanted to put to you.
RepresentativeFord. What kind of eyesight do you have, Mrs. Markham?
Mrs.Markham. I have always had good eyesight.
RepresentativeFord. Do you wear glasses?
Mrs.Markham. No; I don't.
RepresentativeFord. Have your eyes tested recently?
Mrs.Markham. No; I haven't. I have no cause to.
RepresentativeFord. You have never worn glasses in your lifetime?
Mrs.Markham. No.
Mr.Dulles. Are you farsighted, nearsighted, or neither, just good-sighted?
Mrs.Markham. Just good-sighted. I did a lot of writing and a cashier and everything. I see pretty good.
RepresentativeFord. If you go to a movie can you see the picture easily and well?
Mrs.Markham. Oh, yes; yes, sir; real well.
RepresentativeFord. You can see things at a distance quite well?
Mrs.Markham. Yes, sir. I have never had glasses.
RepresentativeFord. Thank you very much.
Mr.Ball. Mrs. Davis, you didn't get the notice through the mail asking you to appear here?
Mrs.Davis. No, sir.
Mr.Ball. We told you orally in Washington, or in Dallas last Friday, didn't we?
Mrs.Davis. Yes, sir.
Mr.Dulles. She has not been sworn. Will you kindly raise your right hand? Do you solemnly swear the testimony you will give to this Commission is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mrs.Davis. I do.
Mr.Ball. Mrs. Davis, you didn't get a letter from the Commission asking you to appear here?
Mrs.Davis. No, sir.
Mr.Ball. But when Mr. Belin and I were in Dallas on Friday of last week we asked you to appear?
Mrs.Davis. On Saturday.
Mr.Ball. On Saturday, was it?
Mrs.Davis. Yes.
Mr.Ball. That is right. And you voluntarily agreed to come up here, didn't you?
Mrs.Davis. That is right.
Mr.Ball. Without any notice from the Commission?
Mrs.Davis. That is right.
Mr.Ball. Where do you live?
Mr.Dulles. May we thank you for that.
Mrs.Davis. Athens, Tex.
Mr.Ball. Where do you live?
Mrs.Davis. Athens, Tex.
Mr.Ball. You are married, are you?
Mrs.Davis. Yes.
Mr.Ball. You have some children?
Mrs.Davis. Two.
Mr.Ball. What is your husband's name?
Mrs.Davis. Troy.
Mr.Ball. Troy Davis?
Mrs.Davis. Troy Lee Davis.
Mr.Ball. What is your business or what is his business?
Mrs.Davis. He is a roofer.
Mr.Ball. Beg pardon?
Mrs.Davis. He is a roofer.
Mr.Ball. Where were you born, Mrs. Davis?
Mrs.Davis. Athens.
Mr.Ball. Athens?
Mrs.Davis. Yes.
Mr.Ball. Live there all your life?
Mrs.Davis. Yes; part of it I have lived in Dallas some.
Mr.Ball. Where did you go to school?
Mrs.Davis. Athens.
Mr.Ball. How far through school did you go?
Mrs.Davis. Halfway through the 10th midterm.
Mr.Ball. Then did you get married?
Mrs.Davis. Yes.
Mr.Ball. You were living in Dallas on November 22, were you?
Mrs.Davis. Yes.
Mr.Ball. What was your address there in Dallas?
Mrs.Davis. 400 East 10th.
Mr.Ball. Who was living with you at that time?
Mrs.Davis. You mean in the apartment or in the building?
Mr.Ball. In the apartment with you.
Mrs.Davis. Just my husband and two children.
Mr.Ball. You had a sister, did you?
Mrs.Davis. Sister-in-law.
Mr.Ball. What is her name?
Mrs.Davis. Virginia.
Mr.Ball. Was she living there at the time, too?
Mrs.Davis. They lived around the side of the apartment house.
Mr.Ball. In the same building?
Mrs.Davis. Yes.
Mr.Ball. That was your husband's sister?
Mrs.Davis. No; it was my husband's brother's wife.
Mr.Ball. Husband's brother's wife. I see.
Mrs.Davis. Yes.
Mr.Ball. I have got some pictures here so we will understand. I will show you Exhibit 525. Is the house in which you were living on November 22d shown in the picture?
Mrs.Davis. Here.
Mr.Ball. It is the one on the corner? The southeast corner of 10th and Patton, isn't it?
Mrs.Davis. I don't know anything about that, but I know where it is.
Mr.Ball. I will show you Commission Exhibit 524. Is the house shown in that picture?
Mrs.Davis. Yes; sir.
Mr.Ball. And I show you 534, is the house shown in that picture?
Mrs.Davis. Yes, sir.
Mr.Ball. I am showing you 528 and there is a lawn there, that is the lawn of what house?
Mrs.Davis. Of the house I lived in.
Mr.Ball. The house you lived in.
On that day did something unusual happen that you observed, on November 22d?
Mrs.Davis. Those gunshots.
Mr.Ball. Gunshots? Where were you when you heard gunshots?
Mrs.Davis. In bed.
Mr.Dulles. Did you say gunshot or gunshots?
Mrs.Davis. Shots.
Mr.Dulles. Plural? How many did you hear?
Mrs.Davis. Just two, they were pretty close together.
Mr.Ball. You were lying on the bed. What did you do?
Mrs.Davis. I got up, put my shoes on to see what it was.
Mr.Ball. Did you ever go outdoors?
Mrs.Davis. At first, I didn't.
Mr.Ball. When you went to the door, did you open the door?
Mrs.Davis. I opened the door and held the screen opened.
Mr.Ball. What did you see?
Mrs.Davis. Mrs. Markham standing across the street over there, and she was standing over there and the man was coming across the yard.
Mr.Ball. A man was coming across what yard?
Mrs.Davis. My yard.
Mr.Ball. And what did you see the man doing?
Mrs.Davis. Well, first off she went to screaming before I had paid too much attention to him, and pointing at him, and he was, what I thought, was emptying the gun.
Mr.Ball. He had a gun in his hand?
Mrs.Davis. Yes.
Mr.Ball. And he was emptying it?
Mrs.Davis. It was open and he had his hands cocked like he was emptying it.
Mr.Dulles. Which hand did he have it?
Mrs.Davis. Right hand.
Mr.Ball. To his left palm?
Mrs.Davis. Yes.
Mr.Ball. Did you see him throw anything away?
Mrs.Davis. No.
Mr.Ball. You didn't?
Mrs.Davis. Yes.
Mr.Ball. What did you do next?
Mrs.Davis. He looked at her first and looked at me and then smiled and went around the corner.
Mr.Ball. Was he running or walking?
Mrs.Davis. He was walking at his normal pace.
Mr.Ball. And he went around the corner?
Did he go on the sidewalk?
Mrs.Davis. Yes. He was on the sidewalk right beside the house.
Mr.Ball. Did he go, did he cut across your lawn at all?
Mrs.Davis. Yes.
Mr.Ball. Where?
Mrs.Davis. He cut across the middle of the yard.
Mr.Ball. Here is a diagram, 523, this is 400—that is your home.
Mrs.Davis. He came right across like this.
Mr.Ball. Came across like this?
Mrs.Davis. Ran beside the sidewalk.
Mr.Ball. There is already a mark on there.
Mrs.Davis. He left the sidewalk about here, just on the other side of this.
Mr.Ball. Well, mark on the picture now, photo 21 which is Commission Exhibit 534, and you just take this and mark with it and show where he left the sidewalk and what course he took.
Mrs.Davis. He was just parallel to the side of this and right around this little bush and around the corner.
Mr.Ball. Around the corner?
Mrs.Davis. Yes.
Mr.Ball. The black mark from the sidewalk on 534 marks the course that the man took?
RepresentativeFord. Could you tell us where you were standing when you saw him?
Mrs.Davis. I was standing on the porch.
Mr.Ball. Put an "X" there.
Mrs.Davis. I can't see the porch. The door is right between these two things here.
Mr.Ball. These two things—what do you mean?
Mrs.Davis. Between the two posts.
Mr.Ball. Two posts?
Mrs.Davis. Yes.
Mr.Ball. Let's get a better view.
Mr.Dulles. It seems to be the best.
Mr.Ball. You are right.
That is 525.
Now mark where he cut across on that with a line.
Mrs.Davis. Right across like this, only it would be on the other side of the bushes here.
Mr.Ball. Yes.
And where were you?
Mrs.Davis. Standing right—here is the door right here.
Mr.Ball. Put an "X" there. That "X" is a mark to locate your position and we will give a symbol to it. "D." Now, the line you have drawn from the sidewalk through the bushes is the course the man took. Where was he when you saw him emptying his gun?
Mrs.Davis. He was right here on the other side of this bush.
Mr.Ball. Draw a line through the course there.
Mrs.Davis. Just about along in here.
Mr.Dulles. Did you know at the time he was emptying his gun?
Mrs.Davis. That is what I presumed because he had it open and was shaking it.
Mr.Dulles. I see. Just right there.
Mr.Ball. In other words, there is a cross you make across the line that he took which marks the place where he was emptying the gun.
Mrs.Davis. Just about halfway there.
Mr.Ball. Mark it also on 21, 534.
Mrs.Davis. Not quite half, not quite to the bushes there.
RepresentativeFord. Mr. Ball, even though she cannot pinpoint the point where she was standing because of the photograph, she might draw an arrow showing about where she was standing.
Mr.Ball. Show an arrow about where you were standing.
Mrs.Davis. About there.
Mr.Ball. That is 21, photo 21 and Commission Exhibit 534.
After the man left, what did you do, after he went out of sight what did you do?
Mrs.Davis. I went back in and phoned the police.
Mr.Ball. Then what did you tell the police?
Mrs.Davis. I just told them that a policeman had been shot.
Mr.Ball. Then what did you do?
Mrs.Davis. I came back outside and walked down to where the policeman's car was out.
Mr.Ball. Did you see the policeman?
Mrs.Davis. Yes.
Mr.Ball. Where was he?
Mrs.Davis. He was laying on the left-hand side of the car on the ground, by the left-hand fender.
Mr.Ball. Was he alive or what?
Mrs.Davis. I don't know.
Mr.Ball. Did he talk?
Mrs.Davis. No.
Mr.Ball. You didn't know whether he was alive or dead?
Mrs.Davis. No, sir; I didn't get that close.
Mr.Ball. How long did you stay there?
Mrs.Davis. Not 5 minutes, I would imagine, because the police cars started coming, so I went back to my yard.
Mr.Ball. Did you see a man coming and get the policeman's gun?
Mrs.Davis. No, I didn't.
Mr.Ball. Did you later look in the bushes and find something?
Mrs.Davis. Yes; in the grass beside the house.
Mr.Ball. The grass beside the house. What did you find?
Mrs.Davis. We found one shell.
Mr.Ball. One shell?
Mrs.Davis. Yes.
Mr.Ball. And your sister-in-law, did your sister-in-law find something else?
Mrs.Davis. She found one later in the afternoon.
Mr.Ball. One, later?
Mrs.Davis. Yes, sir.
Mr.Ball. Can you show me on one of these pictures here where you found one shell?
Mrs.Davis. Under the window here. That would be the only one I could tell.
Mr.Ball. The only one that shows, it is photo 3, it is Commission Exhibit 534. Draw an arrow down.
Mrs.Davis. Right Under that window there.
Mr.Ball. Under that window.
The arrow which is marked "D-1" shows the position where you found one shell. Did you see your sister-in-law find the other shell?
Mrs.Davis. Yes.
Mr.Ball. Where was that found?
Mrs.Davis. There is a little cement walk right here by her door, it was right there, not too far from there.
Mr.Ball. Could you draw an arrow down to show the approximate position?
Mrs.Davis. It was almost in front of her door, there is a little cement porch to step up to her door.
Mr.Ball. The arrow which we marked as "D-2" marks the place where your sister-in-law found the second shell?
Mrs.Davis. Yes.
Mr.Ball. You only found two shells, did you, you one and your sister-in-law one?
Mrs.Davis. Yes.
Mr.Ball. What time of day did you find the one shell?
Mrs.Davis. I don't know. This was probably an hour and a half, maybe 2 hours, after the officer was shot.
Mr.Ball. What time of day did your sister-in-law find her shell, find the shell that she found?
Mr.Davis. Somewhere around 4:30, 5, somewhere in there.
Mr.Ball. Did you later go down to the police station?
Mrs.Davis. Yes, sir.
Mr.Ball. Were you shown a group of people in the police station and asked if you could identify the man?
Mrs.Davis. Yes.
Mr.Ball. Were you alone in that room when you were shown these people?
Mrs.Davis. No, sir.
Mr.Ball. Who was with you?
Mrs.Davis. My husband, my sister-in-law was with me, and some other men.
Mr.Ball. That is your husband Troy, your sister-in-law Virginia Davis, and yourself, and other men?
Mrs.Davis. Yes.
Mr.Ball. Did you know those men?
Mrs.Davis. No, sir.
Mr.Ball. Were police officers there?
Mrs.Davis. They were all in suits, some sat at the back of the room.
Mr.Ball. When those—how many men were shown to you in this lineup?
Mrs.Davis. Four.
Mr.Ball. Were they of the same size or of different sizes?
Mrs.Davis. Most of them was about the same size.
Mr.Ball. All white men, were they?
Mrs.Davis. Yes.
Mr.Ball. Did you recognize anyone in that room?
Mrs.Davis. Yes, sir. I recognized number 2.
Mr.Ball. Number 2 you recognized? Did you tell any policeman there anything after you recognized them?
Mrs.Davis. I told the man who had brought us down there.
Mr.Ball. What did you tell him?
Mrs.Davis. That I thought number 2 was the man that I saw.
Mr.Ball. That you saw?
Mrs.Davis. Yes.
Mr.Ball. By number 2, was the man you saw the man you saw doing what?
Mrs.Davis. Unloading the gun.
Mr.Ball. And going across your yard?
Mrs.Davis. Yes, sir.
Mr.Ball. That was about what time of day that you were at the lineup?
Mrs.Davis. It was after 8, I am sure.
Mr.Ball. After when?
Mrs.Davis. After 8 o'clock.
Mr.Ball. On what day?
Mrs.Davis. On Friday, the same day.
Mr.Ball. The same day? It was after 8 o'clock on Friday, the same day that you had seen the man unloading the gun?
Mrs.Davis. Yes, sir.
Mr.Dulles. Have you any way of fixing the time of when the man ran across your lawn, approximately?
Mrs.Davis. No, sir; not exactly because I had laid down with the children and I didn't pay any attention to what time it was.
RepresentativeFord. You saw him take the shells out of the gun?
Mrs.Davis. No, sir; he was shaking them.
RepresentativeFord. He was shaking them?
Mrs.Davis. He was shaking them. I didn't see him actually use his hand to take them out. I mean he was sort of shaking them out.
RepresentativeFord. Did you find this one bullet at the point where you saw him shake the gun?
Mrs.Davis. No, sir; it was around the side of the house.
RepresentativeFord. About how many feet?
Mrs.Davis. I don't know. Not too far.
RepresentativeFord. But he had moved from the one point to where you found the bullets?
Mrs.Davis. Yes, sir.
RepresentativeFord. Yes.
Mrs.Davis. That is where they started looking for it.
RepresentativeFord. I meant the shells rather than the bullets.
Mrs.Davis. Yes.
Mr.Ball. Was he dressed the same in the lineup as he was when you saw him running across the lawn?
Mrs.Davis. All except he didn't have a black coat on when I saw him in the lineup.
Mr.Ball. Did he have a coat on when you saw him?
Mrs.Davis. Yes, sir.
Mr.Ball. What color coat?
Mrs.Davis. A dark coat.
Mr.Ball. Now, did you recognize him from his face or from his clothes when you saw him in the lineup?
Mrs.Davis. Well, I looked at his clothes and then his face from the side because I had seen him from a side view of him. I didn't see him fullface.
Mr.Ball. Now answer the question. Did you recognize him from seeing his face or from his clothes?
Mrs.Davis. From his face because that was all I was looking at.
Mr.Ball. I see. Now, when you heard the shots you were lying down, were you?
Mrs.Davis. Yes, sir.
Mr.Ball. Was anyone lying with you?
Mrs.Davis. Virginia was laying on the couch.
Mr.Ball. In the same room with you?
Mrs.Davis. Yes, sir.
Mr.Ball. Did she go to the door with you when you went to the door?
Mrs.Davis. She went right behind me.
Mr.Ball. I have a jacket, I would like to show you, which is Commission Exhibit No. 162. Does this look anything like the jacket that the man had on that was going across your lawn?