Testimony of Clyde A. Haygood was taken at 9:15 a.m., on April 9, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. David W. Belin, assistant counsel of the President's Commission.
Mr.Belin. Would you stand and raise your right hand.
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr.Haygood. I do.
Mr.Belin. Would you please state your name.
Mr.Haygood. Clyde A. Haygood.
Mr.Belin. What is your occupation?
Mr.Haygood. Dallas police officer, solo motorcycle section.
Mr.Belin. How old are you?
Mr.Haygood. Thirty-two.
Mr.Belin. Born in Texas?
Mr.Haygood. Yes.
Mr.Belin. Go to school here in Texas?
Mr.Haygood. Yes.
Mr.Belin. How far did you get through school?
Mr.Haygood. Finished high school.
Mr.Belin. Then what did you do?
Mr.Haygood. Went into the service.
Mr.Belin. What branch?
Mr.Haygood. Air Force.
Mr.Belin. How long?
Mr.Haygood. Four years to the day.
Mr.Belin. What did you do in the Air Force, generally?
Mr.Haygood. Ground crew chief, flight engineer.
Mr.Belin. Do you have an honorable discharge?
Mr.Haygood. Yes.
Mr.Belin. What did you do when you got out of the Air Force?
Mr.Haygood. Went to work for the Dallas Police Department.
Mr.Belin. What year was that?
Mr.Haygood. 1955.
Mr.Belin. You have been with them ever since?
Mr.Haygood. Other than 11 months in which I left the department.
Mr.Belin. What did you do in that 11 months?
Mr.Haygood. Went into a business of my own.
Mr.Belin. Then went back to the department?
Mr.Haygood. Yes, sir.
Mr.Belin. Were you on duty on November 22, 1963?
Mr.Haygood. Yes.
Mr.Belin. What was your assignment that day?
Mr.Haygood. Solo motorcycle officer on escort of the Presidential motorcade.
Mr.Belin. You started with the motorcade at Love Field?
Mr.Haygood. Yes.
Mr.Belin. Went through town with him?
Mr.Haygood. Yes.
Mr.Belin. Where were you riding as you went through town?
Mr.Haygood. Riding to the right rear of the Presidential car.
Mr.Belin. How many cars back, if you remember?
Mr.Haygood. Well, it varied. It would be hard to say as to how many cars back.
Mr.Belin. Do you remember whether Officer M. L. Baker was riding?
Mr.Haygood. He was riding in front of me.
Mr.Belin. So you would be riding several cars back, generally, from the President's car, is that correct?
Mr.Haygood. Yes.
Mr.Belin. Did you hear any shots at all?
Mr.Haygood. Yes.
Mr.Belin. Where were you when you heard the shots?
Mr.Haygood. I was on Main Street just approaching Houston Street.
Mr.Belin. How many shots did you hear?
Mr.Haygood. Three.
Mr.Belin. Were the three spaced equally distant?
Mr.Haygood. No.
Mr.Belin. Go ahead.
Mr.Haygood. No.
Mr.Belin. Was one more close than the other one?
Mr.Haygood. The last two were closer than the first. In other words, it was the first, and then a pause, and then the other two were real close.
Mr.Belin. What did you do after you heard the sounds?
Mr.Haygood. I made the shift down to lower gear and went on to the scene of the shooting.
Mr.Belin. What do you mean by the scene of the shooting?
Mr.Haygood. There on Main Street.
Mr.Belin. On Main Street?
Mr.Haygood. I am sorry, on Elm Street.
Mr.Belin. What position of Elm Street?
Mr.Haygood. Be just west of Houston Street.
Mr.Belin. By the scene of the shooting, do you mean the place where you believed the President's car was when the bullets struck?
Mr.Haygood. Yes.
Mr.Belin. What did you do when you got there?
Mr.Haygood. When I first got to the location there, I was still on HoustonStreet, and in the process of making a left turn onto Elm Street I could see all these people laying on the ground there on Elm. Some of them were pointing back up to the railroad yard, and a couple of people were headed back up that way, and I immediately tried to jump the north curb there in the 400 block, which was too high for me to get over.
Mr.Belin. You mean with your motorcycle?
Mr.Haygood. Yes.
Mr.Belin. All right.
Mr.Haygood. And I left my motor on the street and ran to the railroad yard.
Mr.Belin. Now when you ran to the railroad yard, would that be north or south of Elm?
Mr.Haygood. The railroad yard would be located at the—it consist of going over Elm Street and back north of Elm Street.
Mr.Belin. What did you do when you got there?
Mr.Haygood. Well, there was nothing. There was quite a few people in the area, spectators, and at that time I went back to my motorcycle—it was on the street—to the radio.
Mr.Belin. Did you see any people running away from there?
Mr.Haygood. No. They was all going to it.
Mr.Belin. Did you talk to any people over there or not?
Mr.Haygood. In the railroad yard, I talked to one of the people I presumed to be a railroad detective that was in the yard.
Mr.Belin. Had he been in the yard before or not?
Mr.Haygood. No. He was just coming into the area after I was.
Mr.Belin. He was coming into the area after the shooting?
Mr.Haygood. Yes.
Mr.Belin. Did he say anything to you, that you remember?
Mr.Haygood. Nothing that I remember.
Mr.Belin. Then what did you do?
Mr.Haygood. I went back to my motorcycle, which was sitting on Elm Street.
Mr.Belin. Then what did you do?
Mr.Haygood. At that time some people came up and started talking to me as to the shooting.
Mr.Belin. What did they say?
Mr.Haygood. One stated that he had seen the President when the first shot was fired, and that he definitely was hit.
Mr.Belin. Did he say where the shot came from?
Mr.Haygood. And I asked him about where the shots came from, and he stated that he didn't know, that he was looking at him when the first shot was fired, and that he slumped. And when the second shot was fired, he went completely out of sight.
Mr.Belin. You talked to any other witnesses there?
Mr.Haygood. Yes. There was another one came up who was located, at the time he stated, on the south side of Elm Street back toward the triple underpass. Back, well, it would be north of the underpass there, and said he had gotten hit by a piece of concrete or something, and he did have a slight cut on his right cheek, upper portion of his cheek just to the right of his nose.
Mr.Belin. Would he have been to the front or to the back of the Presidential car at the time of the shot?
Mr.Haygood. I don't know what you mean to the front or the back.
Mr.Belin. When he was standing, was he to the west or to the east of the President's car at the time of the shooting?
Mr.Haygood. He would be to the south of it and then west.
Mr.Belin. Southwest of it?
Mr.Haygood. Yes.
Mr.Belin. Talk to anyone else?
Mr.Haygood. And at that time, approximately, well, I was talking to him at the time this other man came up and told me that he didn't know what it was about, but he was quite sure the shot had come from this building there which he pointed out to be the Texas School Book Depository Building.
Mr.Belin. Did he say why?
Mr.Haygood. He said when the first shot was fired he glanced back andthere was something in the building, he couldn't determine what it was, but it was just something there that he couldn't explain, but he was definite that the shots did come from there.
And after talking to him and the man that was on the other side that complained he was hit by a piece of concrete from the ricochet at that time, I called the dispatcher and asked for squads to cover the Texas School Book Depository Building off.
Mr.Belin. Do you remember what your number was that day?
Mr.Haygood. Beg your pardon?
Mr.Belin. Do you remember what number you used for calling the dispatcher that day?
Mr.Haygood. Yes. My original call number is 142.
Mr.Belin. I have here a Sawyer Deposition Exhibit A, which appears to be a transcript of a police radio log, and I notice that at 12:35 p.m., there is a call from 142 to 531. 531 is your station headquarters?
Mr.Haygood. Right.
Mr.Belin. Do you want to read what you said?
Mr.Haygood. "I talked to a guy at the scene who says the shots were fired from the Texas School Book Depository Building with the Hertz Rent A Car sign on top."
Mr.Belin. Is that what you said?
Mr.Haygood. Approximately. I don't recall the exact words.
Mr.Belin. There was a response to you. What does it say there?
Mr.Haygood. "Get his name, address, phone number and all information you can."
Mr.Belin. Did you do that?
Mr.Haygood. No, I never.
Mr.Belin. What happened?
Mr.Haygood. Because I was told to go to the School Book Depository Building. I instructed the three different people to come to the front of the School Book Depository Building and remain there until they were talked to.
Mr.Belin. You took these people that you had with you?
Mr.Haygood. I did not take them, no.
Mr.Belin. You instructed them to go there?
Mr.Haygood. Yes.
Mr.Belin. In front of the School Book Depository?
Mr.Haygood. Yes.
Mr.Belin. And remain there until someone talked to them?
Mr.Haygood. Right.
Mr.Belin. You don't know the names of these people?
Mr.Haygood. No, I don't.
Mr.Belin. Do you know who talked to them at all?
Mr.Haygood. No; I don't.
Mr.Belin. What did you do then?
Mr.Haygood. At that time I went to the School Building at the rear location of it, which wouldbe——
Mr.Belin. To the back door?
Mr.Haygood. North side of it, yes.
Mr.Belin. Where that door leads out there to the dock?
Mr.Haygood. Yes; on the northeast corner there.
Mr.Belin. What did you do then?
Mr.Haygood. At that time I talked to the colored male that was standing at the door and asked him how long he had been there, and he said he had been there some 5 minutes or so.
And I asked him if anyone had came out that door, and he said that they had not.
Mr.Belin. Do you remember his name?
Mr.Haygood. No; I don't.
Mr.Belin. Then what did you do?
Mr.Haygood. At that time, it was people, squads and all arriving at the scene, and I went on into the building, which they stayed outside, and helped them search the building.
Mr.Belin. Anything else?
Mr.Haygood. That is about all.
Mr.Belin. Did you search the building on the sixth floor or not?
Mr.Haygood. Yes.
Mr.Belin. Were you there when they found the rifle?
Mr.Haygood. Yes.
Mr.Belin. Were you there when they found the shells?
Mr.Haygood. Yes.
Mr.Belin. Where were you when the shells were found?
Mr.Haygood. I was on the sixth floor when the shells were found. I was still on the sixth when they found the rifle—on the fifth.
Mr.Belin. On the fifth?
Mr.Haygood. Sixth floor, rather, I am sorry.
Mr.Belin. Where on the sixth floor were you when the shells were found?
Mr.Haygood. I don't recall just exactly where it was at. It was on the floor there, though. It was just a big open floor.
Mr.Belin. Do you mean they were somewhere on that open floor?
Mr.Haygood. Yes.
Mr.Belin. Did you hear someone say they have shells, something like that?
Mr.Haygood. Yes.
Mr.Belin. Do you remember who that was?
Mr.Haygood. No; I don't.
Mr.Belin. What did you do then?
Mr.Haygood. Went up to another location there.
Mr.Belin. You saw some shells there?
Mr.Haygood. Yes.
Mr.Belin. Where did you see them?
Mr.Haygood. They were there under the window.
Mr.Belin. Which window?
Mr.Haygood. On the southeast corner.
Mr.Belin. South side or east side?
Mr.Haygood. On the southeast corner facing south.
Mr.Belin. See any paper bags or anything around there?
Mr.Haygood. Yes; there was a lunch bag there. You could call it a lunch bag.
Mr.Belin. Where was that?
Mr.Haygood. There at the same location where the shells were.
Mr.Belin. Was there a coke bottle or anything with it?
Mr.Haygood. Dr. Pepper bottle.
Mr.Belin. See any long bags which would be a foot or foot and a half or more long?
Mr.Haygood. Yes; just a plain brown paper bag with tape in the corner.
Mr.Belin. What, tape?
Mr.Haygood. Yes; there was just brown paper tape on it. Just a brown paper bag with paper tape. It had been taped up.
Mr.Belin. How long was that, if you can remember?
Mr.Haygood. The exact length, I couldn't say. It was approximately rifle length.
Mr.Belin. Would this have been right under the window, or to the east or west of the window, if you remember?
Mr.Haygood. As I remember, it was directly in the corner, in the southeast corner.
Mr.Belin. Well, as you remember, was the window directly in the southeast corner, or was the window a little bit to the west of that corner, if you remember?
Mr.Haygood. The window at that location faces south, on the southeast corner.
Mr.Belin. About how far from the east corner of the building is the window?
Mr.Haygood. Well, it is just approximately like that, and then the corner here. Like the window would be there, and then it would be a corner.
Mr.Belin. As far as the window in this room from that corner [indicating in room]?
Mr.Haygood. I wouldn't even attempt to say the approximate distance of the window from the corner. I don't know.
Mr.Belin. Well, if you don't know, that is what I want to find out.
Mr.Haygood. Yes.
Mr.Belin. Was the bag right under the window?
Mr.Haygood. It was in the corner.
Mr.Belin. Not under the window?
Mr.Haygood. No; it was in the corner of the building, the southeast corner.
Mr.Belin. Anything else you noticed up there?
Mr.Haygood. That is all.
Mr.Belin. Now, where were you when you saw the—when you heard a rifle had been found?
Mr.Haygood. On the floor there, best as I can remember, and I went to that same location as the other one, just like I stated on the other one where the shells was found.
Mr.Belin. Do you remember where that rifle was found, roughly, or not?
Mr.Haygood. It was in a row of books back on the opposite corner. Be on the west side of the building, back to the northwest corner.
Mr.Belin. All right, anything else you remember while you were there?
Mr.Haygood. No.
Mr.Belin. What did you do after that, after the rifle was found?
Mr.Haygood. Well, it still wasn't determined whether the assailant wasn't still in the building even at that time, even after the rifle was found, and the search was continued in the building for a while after that.
Mr.Belin. Then what did you do?
Mr.Haygood. At that time after that I went to the street, went downstairs to the street.
Mr.Belin. Did you participate in any other investigation that day?
Mr.Haygood. No.
Mr.Belin. What about on Saturday?
Mr.Haygood. On Saturday I was on my way to Colorado.
Mr.Belin. So you weren't around on Sunday either?
Mr.Haygood. No. On Sunday when the other shooting was taking place, I was knee deep in snow in Colorado.
Mr.Belin. Is there any other information you can think of, whether I have asked it or not, that in any way would be relevant to the assassination of the President or the shooting of Officer Tippit?
Mr.Haygood. No, nothing; I was out of town.
Mr.Belin. All right, sir. We thank you very much for your cooperation here. You have an opportunity, if you want to come down and read this deposition and sign it before it goes to Washington, or you can waive the reading and signing of it and just have the court reporter send it directly to us, whatever you want to do?
Mr.Haygood. It makes no difference.
Mr.Belin. It makes no difference to us either.
Mr.Haygood. Just waive the signing. I don't know when I can get back over here.
(Officer Haygood was summoned back in a few minutes from across the street at the Republic National Bank Building to answer the following question.)
Mr.Belin. Officer Haygood, I will continue your deposition with one more question, if you would, and you are still under oath.
You mentioned in your sworn deposition that you talked to about two people that you saw, and you pointed it out in your transmission at 12:35 p.m., under your Call No. 142.
Is that correct?
Mr.Haygood. Right.
Mr.Belin. I notice on there another transmission at 12:37 p.m. Could you read what the transcript has there.
Mr.Haygood. Well, this part of the deposition I covered it a while ago but I gave you, is when I called to have the Texas School Book Depository covered there. That is one of the witnesses I had that believed the shot came from that location.
Mr.Belin. Could you read what you said there?
Mr.Haygood. It says, "Get men to cover the building, Texas School Book Depository, believe the shots came from there, facing it on Elm Street looking at the building it will be the second window from the end in the upper right hand corner."
Mr.Belin. Did you say that?
Mr.Haygood. Yes.
Mr.Belin. Then the transmission made to you, 531 to 142 calling, "How many do you have there?"
And you made a response which is?
Mr.Haygood. "One guy possibly hit by a ricochet off the concrete and another seen the President slump."
Mr.Belin. Were there two more people in addition to the one that you saw?
Mr.Haygood. They are still the same people I was referring to back on the transmission that I made.
Mr.Belin. How many different people did you talk to? One that was possibly hit by a ricochet?
Mr.Haygood. Piece of concrete.
Mr.Belin. Was he the one that saw the President slump?
Mr.Haygood. No.
Mr.Belin. Was there someone that saw the President slump, and a third stated it was from the second window from the end in the upper right-hand corner?
Mr.Haygood. I don't recall how many it was. There was quite a chaos there at that time.
Mr.Belin. Do you remember if there were two or more than two?
Mr.Haygood. No, sir.
Mr.Belin. Do you remember anything about the description of the man that said that the shot came from the second window from the end in the upper right-hand corner?
Mr.Haygood. No.
Mr.Belin. Do you remember if he was white or Negro?
Mr.Haygood. He was a white man.
Mr.Belin. Man or woman?
Mr.Haygood. Man.
Mr.Belin. Do you remember whether he was young or medium or old?
Mr.Haygood. That would be a guess on my part. I don't recall. He was just a medium age.
Mr.Belin. Do you remember if he was dressed in a suit or not a suit?
Mr.Haygood. Best I remember, just sports clothes. I mean, it consisted of no tie or coat.
Mr.Belin. Okay, thank you, sir.
The testimony of E. D. Brewer was taken at 10 a.m., on April 9, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. David W. Belin, assistant counsel of the President's Commission.
Mr.Belin. Would you stand and raise your right hand.
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr.Brewer. I do.
Mr.Belin. Would you state your name.
Mr.Brewer. E. D. Brewer.
Mr.Belin. What is your occupation, Mr. Brewer?
Mr.Brewer. Police officer for the City of Dallas.
Mr.Belin. How old are you?
Mr.Brewer. I am 32 years old.
Mr.Belin. You go to school here in Dallas?
Mr.Brewer. Yes, sir.
Mr.Belin. How far did you get through school?
Mr.Brewer. I graduated from high school.
Mr.Belin. Then what did you do?
Mr.Brewer. I got married and went to work for the Dallas Power & Light. About a year later I went into the U.S. Coast Guard and stayed 3 years.
Mr.Belin. Honorable discharge?
Mr.Brewer. Yes, sir.
Mr.Belin. Then what did you do?
Mr.Brewer. I went to work for the Dallas Police Department.
Mr.Belin. You have been working for them about 10 years now?
Mr.Brewer. Since December 1954.
Mr.Belin. Were you on duty on November 22, 1963?
Mr.Brewer. Yes, sir.
Mr.Belin. What was your assignment that day?
Mr.Brewer. I was riding solo motorcycle, in the Presidential motorcade.
Mr.Belin. What position were you in in the motorcade?
Mr.Brewer. I was in the front.
Mr.Belin. By which car? Near which car?
Mr.Brewer. If I remember correctly, the President's car was about—the Chief of Police was in a car immediately in front. The President's car was behind him, I believe, if I remember correctly, and I was in front of the Chief's car.
Mr.Belin. You were in front of the Chief's car?
Mr.Brewer. Yes.
Mr.Belin. You were in the lead part of the motorcade?
Mr.Brewer. Yes. I was the front vehicle. There was four or five of us up there in a line across the street.
Mr.Belin. Do you remember how fast you were going as you went down Main Street there towards Houston?
Mr.Brewer. No, sir; not exactly. The speed of it would vary considerably according to the crowd of people on each side of the street as to how we could get through.
Mr.Belin. Did you remember how fast you were going as you turned north on Houston?
Mr.Brewer. It was in my assignment to leave my position there and go ahead of the motorcade as we were approaching Houston on Main Street, and before we got to Houston Street I left. I pulled out ahead of them, and following the same route, went down to the intersection or to where the motorcade was to come onto Stemmons Freeway.
Mr.Belin. So your speed wasn't necessarily accurate with the motorcade, is that correct, sometimes?
Mr.Brewer. Yes, sir; I had pulled away from the motorcade on Main Street and proceeded on down to the Stemmons Freeway.
Mr.Belin. Where were you when you heard the shot?
Mr.Brewer. I never did hear any shots.
Mr.Belin. When was the first time you learned that something was wrong?
Mr.Brewer. I was on Stemmons Freeway there where you come onto it, where the motorcade come onto Stemmons. Went under Stemmons and around to the right and onto Stemmons, and I was on Stemmons Expressway off of my motorcycle there on the expressway when I believe I heard it on the radio first about the shooting.
Mr.Belin. Were you to stop traffic on the expressway?
Mr.Brewer. Yes. I was to assist some other officers in stopping traffic on the expressway to allow the motorcade to get onto it.
Mr.Belin. So you were in the process of stopping traffic, waiting for the motorcade to come by, when you heard something on your motorcycle radio?
Mr.Brewer. Yes, sir.
Mr.Belin. How far were you from the so-called underpass there, or overpass there?
Mr.Brewer. I was to the north of where the railroad track goes over. Let's see, the railroad track, where the railroad tracks go over Stemmons Expressway. I was to the north of that.
Mr.Belin. Let me try and get a sketch. Officer, I just stepped out of the room to come back in and bring a map of Dallas, which I believe is similar to Commission's Exhibit 371, which I am going to mark here Deposition Exhibit A, which we will call it E. D. Brewer deposition Exhibit A. I have it marked in red pencil here, and on this map of Dallas, on one side of it in one corner of it is a section called, Downtown Dallas, and this is towards the top of the reverse side of the map.
I am going to ask you to look at this map. You see the place here, it looks like Dedley Plaza, Main Street runs into that, which is Houston, then you turned north on Houston and Elm, and then you take Elm?
Mr.Brewer. Left on Elm.
Mr.Belin. Left on Elm. You went under the railroad underpass there, which appears to be in green on the map, is that correct?
Mr.Brewer. Yes, sir.
Mr.Belin. Then I am going to ask you to take a pencil or a ball point pen, and you might just follow the route that you took. Just mark it parallel to whatever street you took to where you ended up.
Mr.Brewer. (Marks on map.)
Down Elm under the railroad tracks to Stemmons, under Stemmons to the right, headed north parallel to Stemmons on that entranceway, under that T & P Railroad, and onto Stemmons Expressway, and just north of the T & P Railroad.
Mr.Belin. Now is that where you stopped your motorcycle?
Mr.Brewer. Yes, sir.
Mr.Belin. I am going to put an arrow pointing to the spot that you stopped, is that correct?
Mr.Brewer. Yes, that is the spot right there.
Mr.Belin. You have it marked kind of with an "X"?
Mr.Brewer. To the best of my knowledge, that is right where we was at.
Mr.Belin. Was another officer there at the time when you got there?
Mr.Brewer. Yes.
Mr.Belin. What were they doing?
Mr.Brewer. We all proceeded to stop the traffic northbound on Stemmons.
Mr.Belin. Why were you going to do that?
Mr.Brewer. So that the motorcade which was headed in that direction at that time could get onto Stemmons and wouldn't be interfered with by the rest of the traffic.
Mr.Belin. All right, where were you when you first learned of the shooting or that something was wrong?
Mr.Brewer. At that location.
Mr.Belin. How did you learn about it?
Mr.Brewer. I believe it was on the radio, we heard it.
Mr.Belin. What did you do?
Mr.Brewer. On the police radio. Well, when it was determined that—right after we heard that on the radio, something about it on the radio, we heard that they were enroute to Parkland Hospital, and immediately after that they came by us and came onto Stemmons Expressway and went by us in the direction of Parkland Hospital, the motorcade, part of it.
Mr.Belin. Then what did you do?
Mr.Brewer. We heard that the shots had came from the Texas School Book Depository Building, and at that time I got on my motorcycle and proceeded back up to the Texas School Book Depository Building.
Mr.Belin. Then what did you do?
Mr.Brewer. I went in the building.
Mr.Belin. You went inside the building?
Mr.Brewer. Yes, sir; there was officers all around the building at the time I got there.
Mr.Belin. What did you do when you got in the building?
Mr.Brewer. Well, with some other officers, we was part of the officers that was searching the building floor by floor.
Mr.Belin. Now what was your call number that day?
Mr.Brewer. 137.
Mr.Belin. Handing you what has been marked Sawyer Deposition Exhibit A, which appears to be a transcript of a police log of the Dallas Police Department, you see this exhibit here?
Mr.Brewer. Yes.
Mr.Belin. Your call number that day was?
Mr.Brewer. 137.
Mr.Belin. I notice here that the first time there appears Call No. 137, after 12:30 is at 12:38 p.m.
There is a call from 137 to 531. You want to read what it says there?
Mr.Brewer. "A witness says he saw 'em pull the weapon from the window off the second floor on the southeast corner of the Depository Building."
Mr.Belin. Would that have been the second floor or the second floor from the top?
Mr.Brewer. I don't know.
Mr.Belin. Do you remember any witness talking to you at all?
Mr.Brewer. Yes.
Mr.Belin. Do you remember what he said?
Mr.Brewer. He said that he had saw him pull a weapon from the window from that building.
Mr.Belin. Do you remember what window he said?
Mr.Brewer. I don't remember specifically which window he indicated, but I immediately told that to the dispatcher and proceeded on up to the building.
Mr.Belin. I see the conversation continues on the next page. The dispatcher No. 531, to 137, "Do you have the building covered off?"
And then you reply:
Mr.Brewer. "I'm about three-fourths of a block away."
Mr.Belin. Is that where you were when thisman——
Mr.Brewer. Yes, sir.
Mr.Belin. Now from the time you first heard that something was wrong, you had taken your motorcycle and gone where?
Mr.Brewer. Sir?
Mr.Belin. You were on the Stemmons Freeway when you heard that something was wrong, is that correct?
Mr.Brewer. Yes, sir.
Mr.Belin. Then you went from Stemmons Freeway where?
Mr.Brewer. Up to the Texas School Depository Building.
Mr.Belin. Did you stop anywhere along the way?
Mr.Brewer. No, sir; the only time that I stopped was when this guy come up to me and told it to me, and then was gone.
Mr.Belin. Well, you did stop then and talk to this one individual?
Mr.Brewer. Yes.
Mr.Belin. Which street were you on when you stopped?
Mr.Brewer. I was proceeding back up Elm Street the wrong way on Elm.
Mr.Belin. About where were you when this one person talked that said he saw him pull the weapon in?
Mr.Brewer. I was down there about the triple underpass on Elm.
Mr.Belin. You mean right under the triple underpass?
Mr.Brewer. Or coming to it.
Mr.Belin. Well, coming to it?
Mr.Brewer. From the west.
Mr.Belin. Would you have been on the west side of that?
Mr.Brewer. Yes, right there about that curb.
Mr.Belin. Before you left Stemmons Freeway, did you look up or around to see if there was anything suspicious in that area?
Mr.Brewer. We was all looking up in the railroad tracks from the west side.
Mr.Belin. Did you see anything at all?
Mr.Brewer. No, sir; we saw some people coming up there, but they seemed to be up there looking.
Mr.Belin. You mean you saw people up there searching?
Mr.Brewer. Yes, sir.
Mr.Belin. Did you see anybody running away?
Mr.Brewer. No, sir.
Mr.Belin. See anyone acting suspiciously by himself?
Mr.Brewer. No, sir.
Mr.Belin. Then you left that area and came right down the wrong way, you say, back to retrace your route, is that correct?
Mr.Brewer. Yes, sir.
Mr.Belin. Then somewhere in the vicinity of the railroad underpass, you were stopped by this one individual that you reported on the radio log, is that correct?
Mr.Brewer. Yes, sir.
Mr.Belin. Do you remember whether this man that you talked to was a white male or a Negro?
Mr.Brewer. He was a white man, the best of my memory.
Mr.Belin. Do you remember anything else about him?
Mr.Brewer. No, sir.
Mr.Belin. Did he have any camera or anything?
Mr.Brewer. Not that I recall.
Mr.Belin. Now after this order to report to the School Book Depository Building, what did you do?
Mr.Brewer. I went there.
Mr.Belin. What did you do when you got there?
Mr.Brewer. Went in the building.
Mr.Belin. Which door?
Mr.Brewer. By the front door.
Mr.Belin. Had the building been sealed off by the time you got there?
Mr.Brewer. Yes, sir.
Mr.Belin. Were officers blocking everyone that was coming in, to prohibit them from coming in and going out?
Mr.Brewer. Yes.
Mr.Belin. What did you do when you got there?
Mr.Brewer. I went inside the building.
Mr.Belin. Where did you go?
Mr.Brewer. I proceeded to assist in the floor to floor search of the building with some other officers.
Mr.Belin. What floor did you start on?
Mr.Brewer. On the bottom floor.
Mr.Belin. You went up to the top?
Mr.Brewer. Yes, sir.
Mr.Belin. How far up did you go?
Mr.Brewer. We searched all of it before we quit.
Mr.Belin. Well, were you ever on the 6th floor?
Mr.Brewer. Yes.
Mr.Belin. Were you on the sixth floor when you found anything there?
Mr.Brewer. Yes, sir.
Mr.Belin. What did you find?
Mr.Brewer. I was on the sixth floor when they found those spent cases from the rifle.
Mr.Belin. Where were you when they found them?
Mr.Brewer. I don't know exactly. I was on the floor searching around in among some boxes that were stacked up there.
Mr.Belin. Hear anyone say anything about cartridge cases or anything?
Mr.Brewer. Yes, sir. Whoever found them turned around and let it be known to one of the supervisor officers that he had found them, or that they had been found over there.
Mr.Belin. What did you do when you heard the news?
Mr.Brewer. I continued searching.
Mr.Belin. Did you go and take a look at the cartridge cases?
Mr.Brewer. Yes, sir.
Mr.Belin. How many cartridge cases did you see?
Mr.Brewer. Three.
Mr.Belin. Where were they?
Mr.Brewer. They were there under, by the window.
Mr.Belin. What window?
Mr.Brewer. In the southeast corner of the building, facing south.
Mr.Belin. See anything else there at the time by the window?
Mr.Brewer. Paper lunch sack and some chicken bones or partially eaten piece of chicken, or a piece of chicken.
Mr.Belin. Anything else?
Mr.Brewer. A drink bottle.
Mr.Belin. What bottle?
Mr.Brewer. A cold drink bottle, soda pop bottle.
Mr.Belin. Anything else?
Mr.Brewer. In relation to what?
Mr.Belin. Did you see anything else in the southeast corner?
Mr.Brewer. There was a paper, relatively long paper sack there.
Mr.Belin. Where was that?
Mr.Brewer. It was there in the southeast corner.
Mr.Belin. Under the window?
Mr.Brewer. No, sir. To the left of it. To the east of it.
Mr.Belin. To the left as you faced the window?
Mr.Brewer. Yes, sir.
Mr.Belin. Did the window come right up next to the corner there, do you remember?
Mr.Brewer. No, sir; it didn't come up next to the corner. It was offset.
Mr.Belin. Can you remember how far at all, or not?
Mr.Brewer. No, sir; I don't remember the exact distance of it.
Mr.Belin. Was any part of the paper sack under the window, if you remember or not?
That long paper sack?
Mr.Brewer. No, sir.
Mr.Belin. Do you remember anything about what the sack looked like?
Mr.Brewer. Well, it was assumed at the time that it was the sack that the rifle was wrapped up in when it was brought into the building, and it appeared that it could have been used for that.
Mr.Belin. Well, you mean you assumed that before you found the rifle?
Mr.Brewer. Yes, sir; I suppose. That was discussed.
Mr.Belin. Do you remember anything else that was found around there or not?
Mr.Brewer. Not in that particular area.
Mr.Belin. Anything found anywhere else in the sixth floor?
Mr.Brewer. Yes, sir. The rifle was found on the sixth floor.
Mr.Belin. Where was that?
Mr.Brewer. It was found in a northwest corner under some, in between some boxes that were stacked up there at the head of the stairs.
Mr.Belin. Were you there when they found the rifle?
Mr.Brewer. Yes, sir.
Mr.Belin. How far away from the area were you when you found the rifle, if you remember?
Mr.Brewer. Several feet from it. I don't remember exactly.
Mr.Belin. Did you see the rifle?
Mr.Brewer. Yes, sir.
Mr.Belin. Where was it located?
Mr.Brewer. It was laying down low on the door or on the floor down between some, a very narrow space where boxes were stacked up there, and there was a space between the boxes, and it was laying down there in between it, like it had been stuck in there hurriedly, and possibly just before whoever laid it there went down the stairs.
Mr.Belin. Anything else you found of significance in the building at all or not?
Mr.Brewer. Not that I recall.
Mr.Belin. What did you do the rest of the afternoon?
Mr.Brewer. Well, we proceeded to search the building after that, and wespent, I don't know the exact amount of time we spent in the building after that, but when Lieutenant Jack Revill was satisfied, we went back downstairs and I went back out to my motorcycle and to my immediate superior officer and received another assignment.
Mr.Belin. Did you have anything to do with the investigation of the assassination that day?
Mr.Brewer. No, sir.
Mr.Belin. What about on Saturday?
Mr.Brewer. No, sir.
Mr.Belin. Sunday?
Mr.Brewer. No, sir. My primary job was traffic control.
Mr.Belin. Did you have anything to do with the investigation of Officer Tippit's murder?
Mr.Brewer. No, sir.
Mr.Belin. Is there anything that you can think of that might in any way be relevant to the assassination of the President or the shooting of Officer Tippit?
Mr.Brewer. Not that I can think of; no, sir.
Mr.Belin. Sir, I want to thank you very much for coming on down here.
You have an opportunity, if you like, to come back and read the deposition and sign it, or else you can waive the signing of it and have it sent directly to Washington, whichever you prefer.
Mr.Brewer. It don't matter. Whichever you prefer.
Mr.Belin. We have no preference.
Mr.Brewer. Okay, you send it on.
Mr.Belin. Do you want to waive the signing of it?
Mr.Brewer. Yes, sir.