Mr.Griffin. Now, did you three, Archer, Clardy, and you, were you the ones that stripped his clothes and took the property out of his pockets?
Mr.McMillon. We assisted in it. There was some jailers assisting us, too.
Mr.Griffin. Now, when you removed the contents of his pockets, what did you do with that material?
Mr.McMillon. As best I remember, we gave it to a jailer. I recall that a hat was sent up to the jail. I had lost mine during the scuffle. A hat was sent up to the jail. They thought it was mine. I recall seeing some of that property placed in his hat, but I can’t remember for sure. I know it was turned over to authorized jail personnel.
Mr.Griffin. It was turned over to some jailer?
Mr.McMillon. Uh-huh.
Mr.Griffin. Now, is that the normal procedure, when a man is stripped, to turn it over to a jailer?
Mr.McMillon. His property?
Mr.Griffin. Yes.
Mr.McMillon. Oh, yes.
Mr.Griffin. Now, whose responsibility was it to fill out an inventory at that point?
Mr.McMillon. It would have been the jailer’s, and it was.
Mr.Griffin. And you didn’t fill out an inventory on it?
Mr.McMillon. No.
Mr.Griffin. Do you remember if any keys were taken out of his pocket?
Mr.McMillon. Yes.
Mr.Griffin. Did you examine those keys?
Mr.McMillon. Not at this particular point. I can explain that right now, if you want me to go into it.
Mr.Griffin. Yes, I would.
Mr.McMillon. Okay. Later in the afternoon, one of the lieutenants, I believe it was, instructed me to take the keys from his property, to meet, I believe, Lieutenant Smart and Lieutenant Swain with those keys so they could get into his car. I took those keys and went to where they had told me that I would find them. I believe it was on the parking lot in front of the Western Union. I walked down there, and I couldn’t find them. I returned to the jail, and I was later able to determine that they had already gotten the car and had impounded it and had taken care of that, so the keys weren’t needed, so I took the keys back.
Mr.Griffin. The keys that you had, was it clear to you that this key chain had a car key on it?
Mr.McMillon. Yes, I believe so. I am not sure, but I mean I am sure that it was, whether I took it for granted or what, but I assumed that there was a key on it that fit the car.
Mr.Griffin. Did you talk with Ruby about whether there was a key on it that fit the car?
Mr.McMillon. I don’t recall. Possibly may have.
Mr.Griffin. Did you have any information at the time you got a hold of these keys as to whether the car was locked or unlocked?
Mr.McMillon. I don’t remember that. It had come up in the conversation some way that he had a dog in the car.
Mr.Griffin. Now, how did that come up?
Mr.McMillon. I don’t remember that, but maybe Jack asked us to take care of his dog or something like that. I don’t know. I made no note of it after I had found that they had impounded the car, that that matter had been taken care of, and I felt like that ended our responsibility or it was someone else’s responsibility, other than the three of us remaining there as security there.
Mr.Griffin. All right. Now, during the time that Dean and Sorrels werepresent, was at least one of the other three of you, Archer, Clardy, and you, present with Ruby?
Mr.McMillon. Yes, I believe so, probably most of the time and probably it would have been Archer more, because I was running about the jail taking care of some of the details. I was away for short periods of time, so I didn’t hear all of the conversation.
Mr.Griffin. Now, when you—by the time Dean and Sorrels left, what information did you have as to how Ruby had gotten into the basement?
Mr.McMillon. They had already come out by then and had just walked right straight down the ramp.
Mr.Griffin. How did that come to your attention?
Mr.McMillon. Let me see. Let me see those notes there. I believe I have it in them. Refreshmy——
Mr.Griffin. That is a statement that you made on December 4?
Mr.McMillon. That is the second.
Mr.Griffin. Why don’t you look at your statement of the 24th?
Mr.McMillon. We are still missing that fourth report. I believe it was covered in there.
Mr.Griffin. Well, now, that is a later report, but on the date of the 24th, when these things were fresh in your mind at 3:30, you didn’t mention anything in your report, did you, about how Ruby got down the ramp?
Mr.McMillon. Just a second. No, sir; I didn’t mention it then.
Mr.Griffin. Why was that?
Mr.McMillon. Well, I couldn’t possibly have mentioned everything that I knew about the deal here. I just didn’t mention it.
Mr.Griffin. But you knew that was important, didn’t you?
Mr.McMillon. No, sir; I didn’t think anything about it being important at all at the time. I gave that information, I believe—this report was written on Sunday—I gave it to them on Saturday, I believe, during the departmental investigation.
Mr.Griffin. In the meantime, had you talked with Dean?
Mr.McMillon. With Dean?
Mr.Griffin. Yes.
Mr.McMillon. I don’t recall if I had or not. I don’t remember whether I had seen him or not.
Mr.Griffin. In the meantime, had you talked with Archer or Clardy?
Mr.McMillon. Oh, yes; sure had.
Mr.Griffin. There came a time, didn’t there, when Dean was under a lot of pressure from the people in the police department?
Mr.McMillon. I don’t know anything about that. Probably no more than the rest of us. I don’t know. I think that Dean got misquoted or something in the paper.
Mr.Griffin. And the department conducted—directed particular attention to that in part of their investigation, didn’t they?
Mr.McMillon. I don’t know that that was what the investigation was over or not.
Mr.Griffin. Didn’t you know somewhere along the line that Dean might possibly be in trouble?
Mr.McMillon. No, sir; this article in the paper, I had heard all different kinds of rumors. I had heard that the officer, who was supposed to be the one that saw him milling around outside, was an ex-police officer, the article in the paper.
Mr.Griffin. There was an article in the paper that particularly quoted Dean?
Mr.McMillon. I haven’t seen the article. I understand that there was.
Mr.Griffin. That is right. Now, were you present when Agent Hall questioned Ruby?
Mr.McMillon. Part of the time.
Mr.Griffin. Were you there when Agent Hall questioned Ruby about how he got down the Main Street ramp?
Mr.McMillon. I may or may not have been. I don’t know. It seemed to me like most of his conversation I recall Hall asking him there, I am sure I alreadyknew or had been told, but it seemed to me like Hall was running a background information, background check. His questioning seemed to be along that line.
Mr.Griffin. Do you recall Hall asking Ruby how he got down the ramp?
Mr.McMillon. I don’t recall.
Mr.Griffin. Or how Ruby got in the basement?
Mr.McMillon. I don’t recall Hall asking him that.
Mr.Griffin. Let me say this. If you had heard this and Ruby gave information to Hall that you say was different from what you say you heard Dean get out of Ruby, you would have brought that to Hall’s attention, wouldn’t you?
Mr.McMillon. I probably would have, had I heard it.
Mr.Griffin. If you had heard him say something different, you would have brought it to his attention?
Mr.McMillon. I am sure that I would.
Mr.Griffin. In fact, any police officer would have done that, don’t you think so?
Mr.McMillon. Yes; I think so.
Mr.Griffin. Now, isn’t it true that, as late as—well, strike this—did you sign the typed copy, the original typed copy of Exhibit 5018?
Mr.McMillon. Did I sign it?
Mr.Griffin. Yes, sir.
Mr.McMillon. Yes, sir.
Mr.Griffin. So you saw that original typed copy after it had been typed?
Mr.McMillon. Yes, sir.
Mr.Griffin. Now, on November 27or——
Mr.McMillon. Let’s back up just a second. You said did I sign the original typed copy?
Mr.Griffin. Yes, sir.
Mr.McMillon. I am sure that I did. I thought you were referring to the original handwritten, the one that I had written out in hand.
Mr.Griffin. No.
Mr.McMillon. I am pretty sure that I signed it.
Mr.Griffin. It indicates that.
Mr.McMillon. Yes.
Mr.Griffin. Did you read it over before you signed it?
Mr.McMillon. Oh, sure.
Mr.Griffin. At the time that you signed that report, did you know that there was an investigation being conducted in the police department as to how Ruby got into the basement?
Mr.McMillon. Sure did. I had already been interviewed by the FBI when I signed this departmental report.
Mr.Griffin. Now, if—and did you feel that the information, which you say that you got, that you heard Ruby give Dean, did you feel on November 27 that that was important information?
Mr.McMillon. What was that again, sir?
Mr.Griffin. I believe you stated before that you heard Ruby tell Dean that he came down the ramp?
Mr.McMillon. Yes, I heard Jack say that he came down the ramp.
Mr.Griffin. All right. Now, at the time that you signed this report on November the 27th, did you realize that such a statement from Ruby was a matter of concern to the police department?
Mr.McMillon. At the time that I signed those reports was just like all of the rest of them. I realized that anything that I might know or that I can remember might be of some value or of some significance to anybody who was investigating it.
Mr.Griffin. You certainly knew that any statement that Ruby made about how he got down into that basement would be something that somebody might want to know?
Mr.McMillon. Yes.
Mr.Griffin. You read that report over?
Mr.McMillon. Yes.
Mr.Griffin. And there is nothing in that report about Ruby having made such a statement, is there?
Mr.McMillon. This first one here?
Mr.Griffin. Yes.
Mr.McMillon. Let’s see. I don’t believe so. No, sir; I don’t see anything.
Mr.Griffin. All right. Now, you have had a chance to look over Exhibit 5019, haven’t you?
Mr.McMillon. Yes, I have looked it over.
Mr.Griffin. Now, did you tell the Secret Service agents, who interviewed you at that time, about thestatement——
Mr.McMillon. I was never interviewed by anybody who was identified as Secret Service agents.
Mr.Griffin. I am sorry. FBI agents. Did you tell those FBI agents anything about Ruby’s statement to Dean?
Mr.McMillon. I told them about how he said he got into the basement. I don’t believe they asked me about Dean, that Ruby told him down the ramp.
Mr.Griffin. What time did this interview take place?
Mr.McMillon. Let’s see the date on this. This is the two agents that came to see me on the 25th, that is on Monday?
Mr.Griffin. Yes; do you remember what time of the day?
Mr.McMillon. Yes; in the afternoon.
Mr.Griffin. In the afternoon?
Mr.McMillon. Yes.
Mr.Griffin. Had you talked to Dean between the time he left you and that afternoon, the time you made that statement?
Mr.McMillon. I don’t recall that I had, but I don’t believe that I did.
Mr.Griffin. Did you know by the time you made this statement that Dean had reported to somebody in the police department that he saw the man come downthe——
Mr.McMillon. No; I didn’t know that at that time. I didn’t know that Dean had allegedly said anything of that stuff then. People had told me, after I had got off duty, this, that and the other. I heard somewhere that Dean had been on an interview somewhere on television or something, and that is as much as I knew. I don’t know. I don’t believe that this article was out at the time. It possibly may have been. I think this article came out a week or two later where Dean is supposed to have said that he seen him. I believe it was some time later after this, a week or so later after this.
Mr.Griffin. Did you talk with either Archer or Clardy or anybody else in the police department about this statement that Ruby made to you between the time that Ruby made it and the time you gave that interview with the FBI?
Mr.McMillon. I don’t recall what the conversation was. Archer, Clardy, and several more of us discussed the case, but Captain Nichols, about the time we got in from the jail about 3:30, when we started writing that report overthere——
Mr.Griffin. Yes, sir.
Mr.McMillon. Captain Nichols’ instructions were for each of us to write what we had been doing.
Mr.Griffin. Uh-huh.
Mr.McMillon. What we had been doing, facts about it, instructed us not to talk to any other man about it, that he wanted each man’s own report, which I wrote my own report. After I had written my report and turned it in, there has been a lot of conversation about it. I have discussed it with numerous people.
Mr.Griffin. Did anybody from the homicide bureau question you about the statement that Ruby made?
Mr.McMillon. May have been, but I don’t remember when. Something about I was supposed to sign an affidavit to them or something, but I don’t believe I ever signed any affidavit to them, some fact that Iwas——
Mr.Griffin. How soon after you heard this statement from Ruby were you questioned by homicide detectives concerning that statement?
Mr.McMillon. I don’t think I was ever to the point where we could say questioned by them. It seems to me like one of them asked me in the hall, “Did you hear him say so and so, did you hear this, that and the other, could youtestify to this, that and the other, did you hear it?” It came up in a couple of days, but, as far as I know, I didn’t sign an affidavit.
Mr.Griffin. Did you testify at the trial?
Mr.McMillon. Yes.
Mr.Griffin. Did you testify about having heard this statement?
Mr.McMillon. How he entered the basement?
Mr.Griffin. Yes.
Mr.McMillon. Okay. I believe you are going to be a little more briefed on it when you get the fourth report. It is covered.
Mr.Griffin. All right.
Mr.McMillon. There is four reports, he only has three, but anyway that is the statement that I made at this departmental investigation.
Mr.Griffin. Let me hand you an exhibit marked 5015. That is something you prepared, diagram, Commerce, Main, Pearl, and Expressway. Would you sign that and date it? Let me hand you what has been marked as Exhibit 5020, which is a copy of a copy, which you provided us of your original handwritten statement of November 24 to Chief Curry. Would you look that over so you are certain that that is a true and accurate copy and then, if you feel it is true and accurate, would you sign it and date it? Would you prefer to do that out in the hall?
Mr.McMillon. It won’t be but just a minute here.
Mr.Griffin. Okay.
Mr.McMillon. Okay.
Mr.Griffin. Listen, Tom. I appreciate your coming up here.