Mr.Hubert. Did you have a television in the place?
Mr.Armstrong. Yes; we had a television—I turned the television on.
Mr.Hubert. Did you all listen to both the television and the radio?
Mr.Armstrong. Both the television and the radio—there wasn’t too much on the TV, so you could get more on the radio.
Mr.Hubert. When did you hear from Jack, after the shooting of the President?
Mr.Armstrong. Oh, I would say about 15 or 20 minutes.
Mr.Hubert. After you first heard about it?
Mr.Armstrong. After I first heard about it.
Mr.Hubert. How did you hear from him?
Mr.Armstrong. On the telephone.
Mr.Hubert. What did he say?
Mr.Armstrong. He just said, “Did you hear?” and I said, “Yes.” He said, “Ain’t it terrible?” “It’s a shame.” Just like that—real sadlike.
Mr.Hubert. That was before the President had died?
Mr.Armstrong. That was before the President had died.
Mr.Hubert. Do you know where he was calling from?
Mr.Armstrong. Well, I assumed he was calling from the Morning News.
Mr.Hubert. Why do you assume that?
Mr.Armstrong. Because I could always tell when he called from the Morning News.
Mr.Hubert. Why—because of what?
Mr.Armstrong. Well, usually on Saturday at the time he was at the Morning News—that was on a Saturday, wasn’t it?
Mr.Hubert. No; it was on Friday.
Mr.Armstrong. It was on Friday—well, Friday or Saturday is the same as—the Saturdayads——
Mr.Hubert. Well, is it your testimony then that he was usually at the Morning News on both Friday and Saturday attending to the ads for the week?
Mr.Armstrong. Right.
Mr.Hubert. Is there any other thing that would make you believe he was there at the Morning News, such as some background noises that would be peculiar to a newspaper?
Mr.Armstrong. Well—there was this typewriter that I always hear when he called from down there, and I only heard it at this time—about four clicks of it.
Mr.Hubert. You mean on the time he called you about 20 minutes after the President had been shot?
Mr.Armstrong. Yes.
Mr.Hubert. You heard four clicks?
Mr.Armstrong. On the typewriter that I usually hear it on.
Mr.Hubert. Usually, you would hear a big clatter of it?
Mr.Armstrong. Right.
Mr.Hubert. At this time you heard about four clicks and no more?
Mr.Armstrong. And no more.
Mr.Hubert. Did you place any particular significance to that?
Mr.Armstrong. No.
Mr.Hubert. Do you now?
Mr.Armstrong. No.
Mr.Hubert. I was curious why you mentioned that fact then.
Mr.Armstrong. Well, I mentioned it to verify the reason why I thought he was at the Morning News. He did not tell me he was at the Morning News.
Mr.Hubert. I understand.
Mr.Armstrong. But I assumed that he was at the Morning News.
Mr.Hubert. Now, he asked you if you had heard and you told him yes and he said, “Wasn’t it terrible,” and so forth?
Mr.Armstrong. Yes.
Mr.Hubert. What else did he say?
Mr.Armstrong. Well, he said if anything happens we are going to close the club up.
Mr.Hubert. “If anything happens,” I suppose you mean that he was inferring, or you thought he was, that if the President would die?
Mr.Armstrong. Right.
Mr.Hubert. Did he say so in so many words?
Mr.Armstrong. No.
Mr.Hubert. He just said, “If anything happens.”
Mr.Armstrong. “We are going to close the club.”
Mr.Hubert. Any other conversation?
Mr.Armstrong. No; he said, “I’ll see you in about 30 minutes,” and I would say he was there in about 5 minutes after they announced that the President was dead.
Mr.Hubert. Do you remember what time that was?
Mr.Armstrong. No; I don’t recall what time it was.
Mr.Hubert. In any case, within 5 minutes after you heard that the President was dead, Jack came in?
Mr.Armstrong. He came in.
Mr.Hubert. Did he know then that the President was dead?
Mr.Armstrong. He knew.
Mr.Hubert. Did he say so?
Mr.Armstrong. Well, he was—he didn’t say anything—he just got on the telephone. No, he said something about, “It’s a shame.” He kept saying, “It’s a shame,” like that and he got on the telephone and he was crying.
Mr.Hubert. Do you know who he was speaking to on the telephone?
Mr.Armstrong. Well, he spoke to his sister, he spoke to—he made some long-distance phone calls, I think one to his brother Earl.
Mr.Hubert. How do you know that?
Mr.Armstrong. He made one because it was—I could tell—I could usually tell when he was usually talking to his brother Earl.
Mr.Hubert. Did he speak to Earl very often?
Mr.Armstrong. Well, during that month of November he had spoken to him quite often about some business deal he was trying to get him to go into.
Mr.Hubert. Do you know the nature of that business deal?
Mr.Armstrong. Twist boards, I think it was.
Mr.Hubert. You overheard the conversation?
Mr.Armstrong. Yes, on this particular day?
Mr.Hubert. No, I mean on the previous occasions?
Mr.Armstrong. Yes, some of them.
Mr.Hubert. Did you gather from what you heard Ruby say on the Dallas end of the line when he was talking to his brother Earl that he was trying to interest him in investing in the twist board invention?
Mr.Armstrong. Well, no—not on this day. On the other days—he didn’t say anything about the twist board this day.
Mr.Hubert. I understand, I’m talking about the other day.
Mr.Armstrong. Well, usually, I knew he was going to talk to him, he would say, “I’m going to call Earl,” and he would ask for Earl’s phone number which was on a pad there by the phone. He would ask me or he would get it himself.
Mr.Hubert. What was this twist-board business about?
Mr.Armstrong. It was trying to promote a twist board, trying to get it to go over like the hula hula or something like that.
Mr.Hubert. Do you know if he was trying to interest anyone else in that?
Mr.Armstrong. I know he sent some brochures and things like that to other people, but I don’t recall who.
Mr.Hubert. From what you were able to hear during those various conversations between Jack and Earl Ruby, during the month of November, was Earl interested?
Mr.Armstrong. Well, yes and no. You could say he was interested in—for hoping it would be a good deal for Jack’s benefit, but I don’t think he was too interested in investing any money but if he would have to, I believe he would.
Mr.Hubert. Did Jack tell you all that?
Mr.Armstrong. In a way he did.
Mr.Hubert. How do you mean “in a way”?
Mr.Armstrong. Well, in other words, he said that Earl might invest money.
Mr.Hubert. So, your statement about whether Earl was interested or not is based upon two factors, I suppose, and correct me if I am wrong—was—one is that you could hear Jack’s end of the conversation?
Mr.Armstrong. Yes.
Mr.Hubert. And the other is that Ruby told you some things about it?
Mr.Armstrong. Right.
Mr.Hubert. And the net result was that Earl wasn’t too interested in it, but might be for Jack’s sake?
Mr.Armstrong. Right.
Mr.Hubert. Is that a fair statement?
Mr.Armstrong. Right.
Mr.Hubert. Who else did Jack call, do you know?
Mr.Armstrong. Well, he called Ralph Paul.
Mr.Hubert. Did you overhear that conversation?
Mr.Armstrong. I remember it was a short conversation but Jack said he was going to close the club up and Ralph said he was not going to close this placeup——
Mr.Hubert. How do you know he said that?
Mr.Armstrong. Because he told me later on he did.
Mr.Hubert. But, at the moment all you could hear was Jack saying to Ralph Paul—he was going to close the place up?
Mr.Armstrong. Jack did say—he says, “You should close yours up too.”
Mr.Hubert. But you didn’t hear Paul’s answer?
Mr.Armstrong. I didn’t hear his answer.
Mr.Hubert. But later you understand from Paul that he told Jack he wasn’t going to do so?
Mr.Armstrong. Right.
Mr.Hubert. Who else did he call; do you know?
Mr.Armstrong. No; I don’t remember who else he called—he made five or six phone calls.
Mr.Hubert. And you say he wascrying——
Mr.Armstrong. At two or three stages he was crying there.
Mr.Hubert. You mean when speaking to people or otherwise?
Mr.Armstrong. When using the phone.
Mr.Hubert. Only when speaking to people or when he was not speaking to people?
Mr.Armstrong. Well, he cried when he was speaking to me, after he had got off the phone.
Mr.Hubert. Were you crying, too?
Mr.Armstrong. Yes; I was.
Mr.Hubert. Did Jack indicate why he was crying?
Mr.Armstrong. No.
Mr.Hubert. Did he say anything about how the death of the President would affect the business community of Dallas, and particularly the convention business here?
Mr.Armstrong. I’m the one that mentioned it first.
Mr.Hubert. What did you say?
Mr.Armstrong. Well, I said, “This will kill the business, conventionwise, and things probably will slow up quite a bit—drop off quite a bit.” He said, “Yes; you’ve got a point.” He said, “I think it will, too.”
Mr.Hubert. He wasn’t angry at you for making that suggestion?
Mr.Armstrong. No.
Mr.Hubert. He agreed with you, in fact?
Mr.Armstrong. He agreed with me.
Mr.Hubert. How long did he stay from the time he first came in, which you say was 5 minutes after you knew—after it had been announced that the President had been killed?
Mr.Armstrong. I would say he stayed there an hour; approximately an hour.
Mr.Hubert. And most of the time, you think, he was on the phone?
Mr.Armstrong. Most of the time on the phone.
Mr.Hubert. Did he get any calls from anybody?
Mr.Armstrong. Yes; he got some; the phone rang a couple of times, and also the pay phone rang a couple of times; some of the girls called him.
Mr.Hubert. Did you answer it?
Mr.Armstrong. I answered the pay phone and he answered the business phone.
Mr.Hubert. And what did you all tell the girls; what were they asking about?
Mr.Armstrong. Well, they were just asking, “Did you hear the news?”
Mr.Hubert. Did you tell them then that the clubs would be closed?
Mr.Armstrong. Not then.
Mr.Hubert. Well, can you fix about what time Jack left?
Mr.Armstrong. No; I can’t.
Mr.Hubert. You said it was about 1 hour after you heard of the death of the President, or 1 hour and 5 minutes, and if you think that estimate is wrong, say so—I mean anybody can be wrong in an estimate.
Mr.Armstrong. No; that’s about right. He came in about 5 minutes after they announced the death of the President.
Mr.Hubert. And he stayed about an hour?
Mr.Armstrong. And he stayed about an hour.
Mr.Hubert. And made these various calls and then left?
Mr.Armstrong. Right. Now, what time was the death of the President; do you have that?
Mr.Hubert. Well, suppose we assume it was approximately 1:30 p.m.
Mr.Armstrong. Yes.
Mr.Hubert. You would think, then, if that is so, he left about 2:35 p.m.?
Mr.Armstrong. Something like that.
Mr.Hubert. Prior to his leaving, then, did he give you any instructions or tell you what to do?
Mr.Armstrong. He said that the club was going to be closed until Monday and not to mention it to anybody connected with the other clubs because he, himself, was pretty sure that they wouldn’t close up; his competitors didn’t get along—they didn’t get along.
Mr.Hubert. Did he tell you why Monday?
Mr.Armstrong. Why Monday?
Mr.Hubert. Yes.
Mr.Armstrong. No; he didn’t tell me why Monday. He just said that the club would be closed and for me to call everyone.
Mr.Hubert. Did he mention Monday that it would be closed Friday night, Saturday night, and Sunday night?
Mr.Armstrong. He said the club would be closed Friday and Saturday and Sunday.
Mr.Hubert. Did he say why he was picking those 3 days?
Mr.Armstrong. No; he didn’t.
Mr.Hubert. What other instructions did he give you?
Mr.Armstrong. That’s all.
Mr.Hubert. What about notifying the girls?
Mr.Armstrong. Well, I notified them; yes; he gave me the instructions to notify them—all the acts and the waitresses.
Mr.Hubert. Did you call Little Lynn—I think her name is Karen Bennett Carlin?
Mr.Armstrong. No; she came down that night, I’m pretty sure. I think I couldn’t get a’hold of her.
Mr.Hubert. Did you try to call her?
Mr.Armstrong. I tried.
Mr.Hubert. But you didn’t reach her?
Mr.Armstrong. I didn’t reach her.
Mr.Hubert. And you say she came down that night?
Mr.Armstrong. Yes.
Mr.Hubert. That Friday night.
Mr.Armstrong. I think, and Friday night the club was closed and she went back home.
Mr.Hubert. But you don’t know that of your own knowledge?
Mr.Armstrong. No; not to my own knowledge.
Mr.Hubert. But you are positive that you did not reach Karen—Little Lynn—Bennett to call her?
Mr.Armstrong. Sure I didn’t.
Mr.Hubert. Did you know her husband, Bruce, at all?
Mr.Armstrong. Yes; he was up to the club quite oftenuntil——
Mr.Hubert. Until what?
Mr.Armstrong. He was up to the club quite often after the assassination until I suggested that he didn’t come around too often because of some business there; Little Lynn was always getting into something with the other girls, and she got him there to take up for her.
Mr.Hubert. This occurred after the assassination when you were managing the club?
Mr.Armstrong. Yes.
Mr.Hubert. And he was coming around, and you suggested not to come around any more?
Mr.Armstrong. Yes.
Mr.Hubert. Isn’t it a fact that that had happened before the assassination, also, and that Jack told him so, or the same thing?
Mr.Armstrong. I’m sure—I’m not sure that Jack had told him, but I believe that Jack had told him, because he was coming there and he stopped.
Mr.Hubert. Now, during the time that Jack came in at about 1:30 or so and stayed until about 2:30 or 2:35 or 2:40, was this man Larry Crafard there?
Mr.Armstrong. Yes.
Mr.Hubert. He was with you at the time?
Mr.Armstrong. Yes.
Mr.Hubert. Did Ruby come back that day, or did you hear from him any more?
Mr.Armstrong. He came back that day.
Mr.Hubert. About what time?
Mr.Armstrong. No—when he came back I was gone.
Mr.Hubert. Well, what time did you leave?
Mr.Armstrong. I left—I must have left about 4:30.
Mr.Hubert. What did you do in the interval between the time when Jack left and the time you left, which was about 2 hours?
Mr.Armstrong. Wait a minute here: let’s see; let me straighten a little something out here because I am a little wrong here.
Mr.Hubert. All right; that’s what I want you to do.
Mr.Armstrong. I called the people—I called everybody and told them we would be closed that night, Friday night, and Saturday—I called them we would be closed Saturday and Sunday. In other words, Jack said we would be closed tonight, possibly until Monday; in other words, Friday.
Mr.Hubert. I see.
Mr.Armstrong. Now, when I came downSaturday——
Mr.Hubert. Now, let’s not get to Saturday yet.
Mr.Armstrong. OK; I will straighten that out.
Mr.Hubert. I want to get to that, but right now you want to change your testimony because your best recollection right now is to the effect that on Friday when you were talking with Jack it had not been decided how long the club would be closed?
Mr.Armstrong. No.
Mr.Hubert. But only it would be closed Friday night?
Mr.Armstrong. Friday night.
Mr.Hubert. It might be closed the other nights, but no decision was made yet?
Mr.Armstrong. Right.
Mr.Hubert. That’s your best recollection of it?
Mr.Armstrong. That’s the best recollection of it.
Mr.Hubert. That is your recollection?
Mr.Armstrong. Yes.
Mr.Hubert. Can you tell us just for the record as to why you got confused; have you any notion as to what made you get confused?
Mr.Armstrong. Well, I was getting confused on account of the dates. In other words, I was thinking that I didn’t—that the next time I would be at the club would be Sunday, after I hear about the slaying of Oswald.
Mr.Hubert. Was that so?
Mr.Armstrong. Yes; I was thinking that would be my next appearance at the club. In other words, I am trying to think ahead, but then my next appearance at the club was Saturday, which I talked with Jack, because I recall Jack fired me that Saturday, but we’ll get to that.
Mr.Hubert. Well, we will get to that, but we want to keep the dates straight too, if we can, and the times, but let me say this to you: If you do make a mistake in time or date, please feel completely free to come back and correct it, because what we are looking for is the truth.
Mr.Armstrong. That’s the reason I’m not giving you any definite time, because like when I had my interview with Mr. Peggs, definitely—any definite time, and that was right after the assassination—just a few days after.
Mr.Hubert. All right. Anyway, the way we have left it is that you left at approximately 4:30, having called the girls and told them that the club would be closed that night?
Mr.Armstrong. And I reached Little Lynn that day.
Mr.Hubert. You did reach Little Lynn that day?
Mr.Armstrong. That day, but the next Saturday, I didn’t; the Saturday, I didn’t.
Mr.Hubert. So you did call Little Lynn in Fort Worth; is that right?
Mr.Armstrong. Right.
Mr.Hubert. And told her that the club would be closed Friday?
Mr.Armstrong. Right.
Mr.Hubert. And told her that—what did you tell her with reference to Saturday?
Mr.Armstrong. I said that we would be closed tonight, and I didn’t say anything other than that.
Mr.Hubert. Then, about 4:30 you left?
Mr.Armstrong. I left.
Mr.Hubert. To go home?
Mr.Armstrong. I go home.
Mr.Hubert. Did you hear from Ruby any more that night?
Mr.Armstrong. No; I didn’t hear from him.
Mr.Hubert. Was Larry Crafard at the club when you left?
Mr.Armstrong. He was there when I left.
Mr.Hubert. Did you ever see him again?
Mr.Armstrong. No.
Mr.Hubert. What was the nature of the conversation between you and Larry after Ruby left about 2:30 on that Friday?
Mr.Armstrong. After he left about 2:30?
Mr.Hubert. Yes; you said you and Larry were there between 2:30 and 4:30 when you left?
Mr.Armstrong. You see, Jack left and Larry was walking up and down the aisle there shaking his head and—well, he was doing nothing—I would just try to get up and try to finish cleaning up, which I did, and it didn’t take too much because we had gone through the procedure of cleaning up while we was listening to the news, and that was from a Thursday night and we don’t have that many people in there on Thursday night—Thursday night and Sunday night are bad nights.
Mr.Hubert. Did you and Larry talk after Ruby left?
Mr.Armstrong. I imagine we said a few words to each other; Larry went out and ate.
Mr.Hubert. While you were there?
Mr.Armstrong. Yes.
Mr.Hubert. How long did he stay?
Mr.Armstrong. Oh, he stayed about 20 minutes, I guess, and when he got back Jack came back in about 10 minutes later.
Mr.Hubert. You were still there?
Mr.Armstrong. Pardon; I was still there.
Mr.Hubert. I thought you told me that you had not seen Jack any more that day?
Mr.Armstrong. Well, I’m still thinking that—I’m still thinking when I had not seen Jack on Friday—when I left, I left Jack and Larry in the club.
Mr.Hubert. Well, now, we have to revise this, because I want you to get your best recollection in here.
Mr.Armstrong. You see, this is the reason why I know; I had some boards and some bricks to carry home, and I made a phone call to a brick company over on McKinney and told the fellow if he would bring my bricks over to my house—he said, “Yes”—it was 25 bricks, these boards and bricks for me to build a corner shelf, and I had painted the boards in the club and I remember Jack asked me what was I going to do with those boards and I told him the layoutof what I had planned on and he said it was very nice, and I wrapped them in newspaper and I left the club.
Mr.Hubert. That was at 4:30; is that the time?
Mr.Armstrong. That was about 4:30.
Mr.Hubert. Now, let’s get it straight; Jack left about an hour and 5 minutes after the time he first came in; right?
Mr.Armstrong. Right.
Mr.Hubert. And you left about 2 hours after that?
Mr.Armstrong. Right.
Mr.Hubert. So, you left approximately, as we have reconstructed it as we went along, about 4:30?
Mr.Armstrong. Right.
Mr.Hubert. But you said that Jack came in again before you left?
Mr.Armstrong. Before I left; just a little before I left.
Mr.Hubert. Which would have been about 4 you think, or 4:15?
Mr.Armstrong. Something like that.
Mr.Hubert. Now, what was his condition at that time?
Mr.Armstrong. Still in the same—he wasn’t crying any more, but he was still sad and speaking about the assassination and things of that nature and saying a few other things about the club and asked me had I contacted everyone, and I told him, “Yes.”
Mr.Hubert. What other things about the club was he talking about?
Mr.Armstrong. Oh, just about—there was certain things to cut out and certain lights to cut off and was the box unplugged; the things that I always take care of: he always asked about it later.
Mr.Hubert. Were there any phone calls?
Mr.Armstrong. I don’t recall.
Mr.Hubert. At that time, during the second visit?
Mr.Armstrong. No; I don’t recall any more.
Mr.Hubert. Did you hear him talking to Larry?
Mr.Armstrong. No; he did ask Larry about a certain phone number, someone’s phone number that he had Larry to put down in a book.
Mr.Hubert. Do you remember whose phone number that was?
Mr.Armstrong. No, I sure don’t—it was a business phone number—some business.
Mr.Hubert. Did he make a call?
Mr.Armstrong. I don’t remember him making a call.
Mr.Hubert. Do you remember the business?
Mr.Armstrong. I think it was the people that printed up the stationery—I’m not sure, but I think that’s who he was calling.
Mr.Hubert. You didn’t hear that call?
Mr.Armstrong. No.
Mr.Hubert. Now, when you left it was about 4:30?
Mr.Armstrong. Right.
Mr.Hubert. And you left Ruby and Larry at the club?
Mr.Armstrong. Right.
Mr.Hubert. And you went home and went to bed—on about your business and didn’t hear from Jack until the next day?
Mr.Armstrong. Right.
Mr.Hubert. As I understand it, you never saw Larry afterward?
Mr.Armstrong. Right. He left a key at the garage downstairs.
Mr.Hubert. When did you first find out about that?
Mr.Armstrong. Aboutthe——
Mr.Hubert. About the key and Larry leaving it?
Mr.Armstrong. Oh, about 1 o’clock, I guess, I got down again about 1 o’clock.
Mr.Hubert. That was on Saturday?
Mr.Armstrong. On Saturday.
Mr.Hubert. All right.
Mr.Armstrong. I always stopped at the garage to see if there was any mail.
Mr.Hubert. Is that where the mail was delivered?
Mr.Armstrong. That’s where the mail was delivered and Ben gave me thekey. He said Larry had left it and left a note and just said thank Jack for everything, and that’s all.
Mr.Hubert. You mean a written note?
Mr.Armstrong. Right.
Mr.Hubert. In other words, Ben, the man at the garage, told you that Larry had left?
Mr.Armstrong. Yes.
Mr.Hubert. Did he tell you what time he left?
Mr.Armstrong. He said “Early this morning,” that’s all he said.
Mr.Hubert. He didn’t give you any time?
Mr.Armstrong. No.
Mr.Hubert. And he said that he had left the key and a written note?
Mr.Armstrong. Right.
Mr.Hubert. Saying to thank Jack for everything?
Mr.Armstrong. Yes.
Mr.Hubert. That he was leaving?
Mr.Armstrong. Yes.
Mr.Hubert. Where was the written note?
Mr.Armstrong. With the key—just a little piece of paper—I think it was an envelope tore up or something like that.
Mr.Hubert. Did you see it?
Mr.Armstrong. Yes.
Mr.Hubert. What did you do with it?
Mr.Armstrong. Well, I don’t know—I guess I must have throwed it away because only thing on it was “Thank Jack.” I read it to Jack on the phone and I guess I must have throwed it in the trash by the phone there.
Mr.Hubert. And when you got upstairs, did you call Jack as usual?
Mr.Armstrong. Yes.
Mr.Hubert. He was at his house?
Mr.Armstrong. Right.
Mr.Hubert. That would have been about 1 or a little after?
Mr.Armstrong. About 10 after, I would say.
Mr.Hubert. How did you find him then, his attitude, and so forth?
Mr.Armstrong. He said when I told him about Larry, he said, “I guess he wanted to be with his people through all this.”
Mr.Hubert. He wanted to be through with what?
Mr.Armstrong. He said, “I guess he wanted to be with his people through this,”—you know—through the assassination. So, we didn’t say anything else—he didn’t say anything else except he said, “I’ll see you later.”
Mr.Hubert. You say you read him the note?
Mr.Armstrong. Right.
Mr.Hubert. And he told you to throw it away?
Mr.Armstrong. No, he didn’t tell me to throw it away.
Mr.Hubert. But you did do it?
Mr.Armstrong. I did.
Mr.Hubert. As far as you know, the note is not in existence right now?
Mr.Armstrong. As far as I know.
Mr.Hubert. You actually looked at it?
Mr.Armstrong. Yes.
Mr.Hubert. And you read it in fact to Jack?
Mr.Armstrong. Yes.
Mr.Hubert. Give us your best recollection of precisely what the note said.
Mr.Armstrong. It just said, “Thanks, Jack, for everything.”
Mr.Hubert. Did it have a signature on it?
Mr.Armstrong. No.
Mr.Hubert. Was it in his handwriting?
Mr.Armstrong. Yes, it was in his handwriting.
Mr.Hubert. You recognized his handwriting?
Mr.Armstrong. Yes.
Mr.Hubert. Do you know where Larry’s people were at that time?
Mr.Armstrong. No; I didn’t.
Mr.Hubert. Did Jack know?
Mr.Armstrong. No; he didn’t know either.
Mr.Hubert. You found out later, I think?
Mr.Armstrong. Well, there was a letter that he had received, which—pardon me—someone got it in this letter that I have the letter in my possession.
Mr.Hubert. Yes?
Mr.Armstrong. I don’t have it, but the last I saw of the letter was when I showed it to one of the FBI men at the club.
Mr.Hubert. It was a letter received by Jack? Or written by Jack?
Mr.Armstrong. No; a letter written to Larry.
Mr.Hubert. To Larry?
Mr.Armstrong. From some girl in some other city.
Mr.Hubert. All right.
Mr.Armstrong. Did you send me this [presenting witness’ letter of notice to depose to Counsel Hubert]?
Mr.Hubert. Yes.
Mr.Armstrong. Well, you remember what city it was sent from?
Mr.Hubert. Well, isn’t it a fact that you forwarded two letters?
Mr.Armstrong. One that Larry was writing himself.
Mr.Hubert. Yes; to a girl called Gayle.
Mr.Armstrong. Right, and one that he had received from her.
Mr.Hubert. Was that letter opened?
Mr.Armstrong. It was opened.
Mr.Hubert. But it was still in the envelope?
Mr.Armstrong. Yes.
Mr.Hubert. And you just gave that to the FBI people?
Mr.Armstrong. Yes.
Mr.Hubert. Where did you find it?
Mr.Armstrong. In Larry’s belongings there in his room on a little table there.
Mr.Hubert. Did he leave any belongings behind?
Mr.Armstrong. He left some shirts, he left a pair of khakies, I think, or bluejeans—a pair of jeans.
Mr.Hubert. Did he have any bags up in that room?
Mr.Armstrong. He had one little bag, a sort of a little square bag with a little handle or two little handles like that [indicating].
Mr.Hubert. By the measurements you are making, it is a bag about 12 to 15 inches in length?
Mr.Armstrong. Right.
Mr.Hubert. And about 6 or 8 inches in height?
Mr.Armstrong. About big enough to get a change of clothes in.
Mr.Hubert. He didn’t have another bag, did he?
Mr.Armstrong. No.
Mr.Hubert. Was this bag you are talking about made of leather or cloth?
Mr.Armstrong. It was made of leather.
Mr.Hubert. And all he left behind was just this one change of clothing and two letters?
Mr.Armstrong. Well, you see, Jack had bought him a change of clothes, you see. Jack bought him a suit. I think he left what he had—his change of clothing, and carried the suit with him.
Mr.Hubert. Where did you find these two letters, one written to him and one written by him?
Mr.Armstrong. In the room where he slept on a table there.
Mr.Hubert. They wasn’t in the wastepaper basket?
Mr.Armstrong. No; not that I recall.
Mr.Hubert. When did you pick those things up?
Mr.Armstrong. When the FBI’s were there.
Mr.Hubert. Not before?
Mr.Armstrong. Not before.
Mr.Hubert. So, you didn’t pick them up on Saturday at all?
Mr.Armstrong. No—I didn’t even go in that room on Saturday. As a matter of fact, I didn’t even know he had anything there—they were looking for something with his handwriting on it, for something possibly where he had gone and we started searching where he was staying and we found those letters.
Mr.Hubert. And that was on the first day you spoke to the FBI?
Mr.Armstrong. No; this was not on the first day. We opened back up on a Monday, I think we spoke to the FBI—one FBI that Monday, but later on, you know, there was some other ones—possibly the last part of the week.
Mr.Hubert. And it was then that they were talking to you at the club?
Mr.Armstrong. Yes.
Mr.Hubert. And they asked about Larry?
Mr.Armstrong. Yes.
Mr.Hubert. And you all went and searched his room where he had been and they found the letters?
Mr.Armstrong. Right.
Mr.Hubert. You are sure that that’s right, Mr. Armstrong?
Mr.Armstrong. Well, I looked in the room myself. They was in the office, which has a door from his room to the office.
Mr.Hubert. Did you look in his room either on Saturday or Sunday, the 23d or 24th?
Mr.Armstrong. No.
Mr.Hubert. And when you looked in his room, it was when the FBI was interviewing you?
Mr.Armstrong. Yes.
Mr.Hubert. At the club?
Mr.Armstrong. Yes; I didn’t even know Larry had left any belongings there until the FBI was asking me about it.
Mr.Hubert. And you went into the room alone?
Mr.Armstrong. Yes, the door was open.
Mr.Hubert. And then you came out and you showed them these things?
Mr.Armstrong. Right.
Mr.Hubert. Do you know what date that was on?
Mr.Armstrong. No, I sure don’t.
Mr.Hubert. All right, as I understand it, a little after 1 on Saturday the 23d, you spoke to Ruby over the phone and told him about Larry?
Mr.Armstrong. Right.
Mr.Hubert. Now, did any other conversation take place between you on that telephone call?
Mr.Armstrong. No, sir.
Mr.Hubert. None?
Mr.Armstrong. No.
Mr.Hubert. Did he tell you what to do with reference to the club on Saturday night?
Mr.Armstrong. No.
Mr.Hubert. Did he say that he would be there soon or something of that sort?
Mr.Armstrong. He said he would be there sometime “this afternoon.”
Mr.Hubert. Did you stay there until he came?
Mr.Armstrong. Yes, I was there when he came.
Mr.Hubert. What time did he come?
Mr.Armstrong. I don’t recall the exact time—I don’t think that Jack came in the club that day before—it was late in the afternoon—I don’t know the exact time, but it was somewhere around 6 or 7 o’clock.
Mr.Hubert. Was it still daylight or dark?
Mr.Armstrong. It was still daylight.
Mr.Hubert. Were there any phone calls during the time you talked to Ruby on the phone until he came in?
Mr.Armstrong. Well, there was phone calls—something about was we going to be open—a few reservations came in, and I told them I didn’t know whether we would be open tonight or not and to call back later, and there was a couple of girls called.
Mr.Hubert. What did you tell them?
Mr.Armstrong. The girls was told, “I’ll talk to you later.”
Mr.Hubert. So, Jack came in at approximately 6 o’clock, or at least before dark—but it was getting dark, right?
Mr.Armstrong. Yes.
Mr.Hubert. Describe his condition at that time?
Mr.Armstrong. Well, he was still in a sad mood, you know, in a sorrowful mood, you know.
Mr.Hubert. Was he crying?
Mr.Armstrong. No, he wasn’t crying this time.
Mr.Hubert. You were in a sorrowful mood, too, I take it?
Mr.Armstrong. Yes, sir.
Mr.Hubert. Would you say that his mood and yours were about the same?
Mr.Armstrong. No—my sorrowful mood was sort of on the inside mostly, and his was in his face and in the way he was worried about the things. He seemed like—to be more worried than ever.
Mr.Hubert. Then, how—that is to say—what was he doing that gave you the impression that he was more worried than ever? You have told us he had a sad look on his face?
Mr.Armstrong. Well, he was—he just felt like—it seemed like he was just disturbed over what had happened, you know, over the assassination.
Mr.Hubert. Well, of course, you are telling us about the mental impression you formed, which is perfectly all right, but it would be helpful to us if you could give us facts upon which you base your opinion, you see? Now, you have given us one fact—he had a sad look on his face. If you could tell us the things that he said or did.
Mr.Armstrong. I don’t recall anything that he said that day, no more than—he said the club was going to be closed and immediately I got on the phone and started to making phone calls.
Mr.Hubert. To all the people who were concerned?
Mr.Armstrong. Right, to all the people.
Mr.Hubert. And the object was to tell them not to come in that night?
Mr.Armstrong. Yes—I know now—and it was around 6 o’clock, because one of the girls was getting ready to come down to town, one of the waitresses. They had to be there at 7:30, so it was around 6:30—between 6 and 6:30 when I was making the phone calls.
Mr.Hubert. I think you said you tried to call Karen Bennett Carlin then, but you couldn’t reach her?
Mr.Armstrong. Couldn’t reach her, and I believe Jack said, “I will call her later.”
Mr.Hubert. You mean he undertook to call her?
Mr.Armstrong. He told me to keep trying and he would try to call her, too, and he left and went home.
Mr.Hubert. What time did he leave?
Mr.Armstrong. He left about 7 o’clock, between 7 and 7:30.
Mr.Hubert. So, he was there roughly between an hour and an hour and a half?
Mr.Armstrong. Right.
Mr.Hubert. You were making all these phone calls?
Mr.Armstrong. Yes, and he asked me to stay there until about 8 o’clock, just in case any customers called and if they did, to tell them we would be closed until Monday, and he called me back and he said, “What time are you leaving?” I said, “Well, 8 o’clock, I want to go home.” He said, “Well, will you stay on to 10?” I said, “What should I stay here until 10 o’clock for?”
Mr.Hubert. Where was he calling from, do you know?
Mr.Armstrong. He was calling from home, I’m pretty sure it was from home.
Mr.Hubert. What gives you that impression?
Mr.Armstrong. Well, because he had said, “If anything come up, call me.”
Mr.Hubert. To call him at home?
Mr.Armstrong. He just said, “Call me,” so—he always just said, “Call me” when he was at home and if he was not at home, he would always give me a number.
Mr.Hubert. In other words, when he said, “If anything happens, call me,” you knew that that meant he was at home, because that was the custom?
Mr.Armstrong. Right, and so we got into a discussion of whether I should stay there until 10 o’clock or should I leave at 8 o’clock, and I said, “Well, I’mleaving at 8 o’clock,” and he said, “Well, just get on out of the club and don’t come back no more.” And slammed the phone down.
Mr.Hubert. That was about a half hour after he left, wasn’t it?
Mr.Armstrong. Right, but I stayed there until 8 o’clock, like I said I was going to stay, and I closed the club up and went home.
Mr.Hubert. Did you hear from him any more that day?
Mr.Armstrong. No.
Mr.Hubert. Now, on Sunday, did you go to the club?
Mr.Armstrong. Well, I had planned on going to the club—I was planning on looking for another job Monday morning, because I said—“This is it.” I had already made up my mind then I wasn’t going back to work there, no matter what happened.
Mr.Hubert. Why?
Mr.Armstrong. Well, I just got fed up.
Mr.Hubert. But this had happened, I think you said, 35 times or so?
Mr.Armstrong. Something like that.
Mr.Hubert. What you mean to say is that the last time is the straw that broke the camel’s back sort of thing?
Mr.Armstrong. Yes.
Mr.Hubert. But you had definitely made up your mind that this time you weren’t going back?
Mr.Armstrong. Right.
Mr.Hubert. And that this time you were going to start looking for a job on Monday morning?
Mr.Armstrong. Right.
Mr.Hubert. Did you go to the club on Sunday?
Mr.Armstrong. Yes, after I heard about it—well, I was listening to the radio that morning—I was not looking at television.
Mr.Hubert. You were home then?
Mr.Armstrong. Right; it was Sunday morning?
Mr.Hubert. That’s right.
Mr.Armstrong. When I heard about the shooting of Oswald and they said it was a well-known nightclub owner, and so I got a phone call—no, then, it come on the radio that it was Jack Ruby and I got a phone call is when I found out it was on television.
Mr.Hubert. Who called you?
Mr.Armstrong. A friend of mine—William Morris. He used to help me down at the club some Saturday nights when we had a big convention in—he would come down and help me out at the bar.
Mr.Hubert. And then what—he called you and told you it was Ruby?
Mr.Armstrong. No; I knowed it was Ruby—they said that on the radio.
Mr.Hubert. Then, Morris called you and told you it was on television?
Mr.Armstrong. He said, “Did you see it on television?” And I said, “No; I didn’t see it on television.” He said, “Well, turn the television on.” And so I turned the television on and they rerun the shooting, and what I saw on the TV was a rerun.
Mr.Hubert. I understand.
Mr.Armstrong. And so—about—sometime during that day, I forget what time it was, I called Ralph Paul.
Mr.Hubert. What time was it actually, and where was it from?
Mr.Armstrong. From home.
Mr.Hubert. That’s a long-distance call, wasn’t it?
Mr.Armstrong. Yes.
Mr.Hubert. So, there would be a record of that?
Mr.Armstrong. Right, and hesaid——
Mr.Hubert. Let’s do it this way—can you tell us how long after you saw the rerun that you called Paul?
Mr.Armstrong. No; I don’t know whether it was before I went down to the club or after I went down to the club.
Mr.Hubert. You said you had called from your home?
Mr.Armstrong. Yes—you see, when I went down to the club I wasn’t gone but an hour.
Mr.Hubert. What did you go down to the club for?
Mr.Armstrong. I went down and fed the dogs, because I knew that they would be down there all day long without any food, and Clipper, I was crazy about and I didn’t want him going hungry—that was the only two dogs there, so I fed the dogs—went down and fed the dogs and there was a newsman in front of the club and he tried to grab me when I came out.
Mr.Hubert. The police did too?
Mr.Armstrong. No; just the newsman, but I didn’t give him any statement or anything. I had called a friend of mine to bring me downtown and I went and got in the car and went on back home.
Mr.Hubert. So, you are not sure whether you called Paul from the club or from the house?
Mr.Armstrong. No; I know I called him from home, but I don’t know if it was before or after—it was around 12 o’clock, I imagine, when I got downtown—somewhere along in there, but when I did call Ralph, I said, “What are you going to do, open the club up?” He said, “Meet me down there Monday,” and I did meet him down at the club Monday and decided to keep the club open.
Mr.Hubert. Did you have any conversations with anyone else during the course of Sunday?
Mr.Armstrong. No.
Mr.Hubert. Were you interviewed by the FBI Sunday?
Mr.Armstrong. Not Sunday.
Mr.Hubert. You were not interviewed until Monday?
Mr.Armstrong. Not until Monday.
Mr.Hubert. Where were you when they interviewed you then?
Mr.Armstrong. At the club—Monday night.
Mr.Hubert. The club was open then?
Mr.Armstrong. Right.
Mr.Hubert. You were managing it for Ralph Paul?
Mr.Armstrong. Well, I wasn’t managing it—he managed it himself.
Mr.Hubert. You met him there Monday—Paul?
Mr.Armstrong. Yes.
Mr.Hubert. Was it during the daytime?
Mr.Armstrong. It was during the daytime.
Mr.Hubert. He decided to keep on running it and asked you if you would just keep on with it?
Mr.Armstrong. Yes—oh, yes; I did call Eva Grant.
Mr.Hubert. Who?
Mr.Armstrong. Mrs. Grant.
Mr.Hubert. What day was this?
Mr.Armstrong. On Sunday—no, no—on Monday.
Mr.Hubert. You did not speak to her on Sunday?
Mr.Armstrong. No; I called her on Monday and told her Jack had fired me—this was Monday morning. She said, “Well, nonsense, you know how Jack is. Go on down to the club. Mr. Ralph said he would meet me down there.” And she said, “You know how my brother is, he was disturbed, he didn’t know what he was doing anyway.”
Mr.Hubert. Paul had just simply told you to meet him at the club?
Mr.Armstrong. He didn’t know anything about the firing, but I told him at the club—Monday. Now, when I told him, he said, “How many times does that make?”
Mr.Hubert. Who said that—Ralph Paul said that to you?
Mr.Armstrong. Yes; I said, “I don’t know, about a hundred, I guess.”