Mr.Griffin. So there is nothing unusual about Jack Ruby having all that money in his automobile.
Mr.Senator. No; it is always like that. Now if he has any money in the bank, I mean I can’t quote that because I don’t see that. See, he carries this money around 7 days a week. Now what he has in the bank, of course, I have quoted you that once before, I think that was yesterday, I don’t know what he has got. Only when you ask what bank he has, when I mentioned the Merchants State Bank, I don’t know if the guy has got $40 in there or $500, you know what I mean? I don’t know.
Or whatever he has had in there or how he has had it. See, this is an unusual man when it comes to this money bit. I don’t know how many times he asked me, “George, where is my money?” making me feel like I took it but he always misplaced it and always found it.
Mr.Griffin. Is this a large sum of money that he misplaced?
Mr.Senator. Sometimes it could be missing $200 or $300 or $400, I don’t know. Whatever the stake is, he has about 4, 5 or 6 different stakes in different pockets. This man don’t remember where the money is. This may sound crazy but it is true.
Mr.Griffin. Did Jack own any real estate?
Mr.Senator. No; what is he going to use for money for the real estate? A lot of people are under the impression that Jack had a lot of money. Jack didn’t. Jack was, what would you classify him, as a walking bank?
Mr.Griffin. He carried all his money on his person regardless of how much it was.
Mr.Senator. Yes; this man was making who knows, I don’t know how much money he has got and I can’t break it down and say he is carrying 10, 5 or whatever. Who knows what he has got or how much it is. But there has been 2, 3, 4, maybe more.
Mr.Griffin. What, hundred or thousand dollars?
Mr.Senator. Thousands, whatever it is. Of course, as I told you, this all goes to the rent, the help, the electricity, you know, all the utilities and things. But he is a walking bank.
Mr.Griffin. Is this common knowledge that he carried all this money around?
Mr.Senator. That was common knowledge to me. How many other people knew it I don’t know but I am certain other people knew it. Look, when thehelp all got paid off they were all paid off in cash. When they wanted to borrow money they were all paid off in cash. Just like here I can’t quote how much money he had at any time.
Mr.Griffin. All right. Now let me ask you to read over what I have marked as Washington, D.C., April 22, 1964, George Senator Deposition, Exhibit 5403, and I signed that. It is the report of Agents Rawlings and Glonek. Would you read that over, and tell me, go through that in the same fashion as we have with the others.
Mr.Senator. Yes.
Mr.Griffin. Are there any additions, corrections, or explanations that you feel ought to be made to Exhibit 5403?
Mr.Senator. Let me go through this fast. I think there aren’t but let me make sure.
Mr.Griffin. Let me ask you before we get into this, was that interview made at your request?
Mr.Senator. No; I was sent for. Why would I request it?
Mr.Griffin. I don’t know. Some people call the FBI and tell them they have something more to tell them.
Mr.Senator. No; I was sent for. I have had a pretty good amount of questioning you know. I, like any other individual of the nature that I am, I don’t think is too happy about all this. And who would be?
Mr.Griffin. Now that you raise that, we might get on the record the fact that I believe you have expressed to me at lunch during the last 2 days that you feel that this is an unfortunate circumstance in your life.
Mr.Senator. Certainly it is. It ain’t going to do my life any good.
Mr.Griffin. Would you explain? Would you want to convey some of the feelings here on the record that you gave to me?
Mr.Senator. I feel I will always be pointed at, if anybody knows my name of the nature of the conditions that surrounds me.
Mr.Griffin. You feel a certain amount of shame or disgrace?
Mr.Senator. No; let me say there will probably be a disturbance. They will always point to Jack Ruby’s roommate, Jack Ruby’s roommate, something of that nature, you know. What does phonetic mean?
Mr.Griffin. That means that they don’t know whether the spelling is correct, but without knowing how to correctly spell it that is the way they would write it, from the sound. Mr. Senator, as you read through that if you come to anything that you think ought to be modified or changed, why, point it out, because I assume that the two pages that you have read sofar——
Mr.Senator. I am reading it pretty fast. I am a little bit on the punchy side, you know.
Mr.Griffin. If you want us to walk out and sort of relieve your mind.
Mr.Senator. No; there is one item in here where it states “He carried his money in a sack.” This is only partial. It was in his pockets, in the sack.
Mr.Griffin. The trunk of the car?
Mr.Senator. The trunk of the car. No, no; mind you if it is in the sack it goes in the trunk of the car.
Mr.Griffin. Anything else in that interview report that you would wantto——
Mr.Senator. No; I don’t know if this means anything, it is in his pocket, to you I mean. I don’t know. This says here where he took the revolver and placed it on the bag on top of the money. This is notalways——
Mr.Griffin. What did he place on the bag on top of the money?
Mr.Senator. The gun on top of the moneybag. “Placed it in the bag on top of the money.” To me it is not important. The gun may be next to it or something like that, who knows where he put it.
Mr.Griffin. Now let me ask you a couple of closing questions. One thing we haven’t talked about here. That was, how many sets of keys did Jack Ruby have?
Mr.Senator. To the clubs?
Mr.Griffin. Did he have more than one key chain?
Mr.Senator. I think he had two small ones. I think one for the car, I’m notsure now. He had keys but I don’t know what they all fit you know. I think he had one for the car and I think one for the place.
Mr.Griffin. Did he keep all of his car keys on one ring or did he have them on two different rings?
Mr.Senator. I don’t know.
Mr.Griffin. You don’t know?
Mr.Senator. I don’t know.
Mr.Griffin. Did he have one billfold or more than one billfold?
Mr.Senator. I have never seen a billfold.
Mr.Griffin. You have never seen his billfold?
Mr.Senator. You mean to carry his paper money in billfolds? No.
Mr.Griffin. Identification and things like that. Did he have a wallet?
Mr.Senator. I don’t think he ever had a wallet. I don’t recall seeing any.
Mr.Griffin. Did you ever see his driver’s license?
Mr.Senator. Did I ever see his driver’s license?
Mr.Griffin. Yes.
Mr.Senator. No.
Mr.Griffin. Or social security.
Mr.Senator. No.
Mr.Griffin. When he got undressed at night did he put his billfold—what did he do withhis——
Mr.Senator. I never seen his billfold. I think he carries them—what he carried these things in, he had a little thing, you know a little thing that opened up and you slide it to one side or the other, sort of like what, a little money fold.
Mr.Hubert. Sort of like an accordian?
Mr.Senator. No; it didn’t even open up like that. In other words it opened up like a covered book or one of these little things.
Mr.Griffin. Did he have identification in that?
Mr.Senator. I never seen into it. It could be.
Mr.Griffin. Was it the type of thing you could put identification in?
Mr.Senator. I am certain he probably could have.
Mr.Griffin. Would you recognize it if you saw it?
Mr.Senator. The thing?
Mr.Griffin. Yes; that you describe.
Mr.Senator. I am not sure. I might. I couldn’t say positive. As a matter of fact even the coloration, I wouldn’t know if it was green or black.
Mr.Griffin. Did he have any habit of leaving car keys in his automobile that you know of?
Mr.Senator. I think only at the garage. See, the garage is right downstairs from the club next door, which they watch his car constantly because he has rented this place on a monthly basis which he has had for I don’t know how long.
Mr.Griffin. And where would he leave the keys then, in the ignition?
Mr.Senator. I think the keys were left in the ignition.
Mr.Griffin. Do you recall if you ever had occasion to look in the glove compartment of Jack’s car?
Mr.Senator. I have looked at it but it is such a jingle-jangle there that it didn’t mean anything as far as opening it up. There was so much gook in there, do you know what I mean?
Mr.Griffin. Yes. Did you ever have any occasion to look in the trunk of his car?
Mr.Senator. I have seen the trunk open; yes, and that is another slop house, with a bunch of garbage in there. I told him a thousand times “How can you open your trunk and not clean it up? How can you keep that garbage in there.”
Mr.Griffin. What sort of things would he keep in there?
Mr.Senator. There would be papers. In other words, things weren’t placed. You take a tire, you think the tire is in the right place? It could be any place in that thing there, and all the other garbage that he had in there, and papers, whatever it is. He kept his car like he kept his apartment.
Mr.Griffin. You don’t have any knowledge, or doyou——
Mr.Senator. I have never gone through his trunk.
Mr.Griffin. As to what he had in there?
Mr.Senator. In the trunk?
Mr.Griffin. Yes.
Mr.Senator. No. To me it looked like a bunch of garbage he had in there.
Mr.Griffin. Have you ever had occasion to drive his automobile?
Mr.Senator. Yes; but very seldom because he didn’t want me to handle it and I’ll tell you why. No insurance. That is why he didn’t want me to drive his car. Very seldom was I ever allowed to drive that car.
Mr.Griffin. On the occasions when you drove his automobile, from where did you get the automobile keys?
Mr.Senator. From him.
Mr.Griffin. Off of his person?
Mr.Senator. Yes; from the house, yes, when he was home. And sometimes I would drive for him when he is tired, like he feels he is going to fall asleep, and I have done this you know from the club to the apartment where he feels he maybe fall asleep at the wheel. This is one of the things where he wouldn’t let me drive because he had no insurance, and I wasn’t anxious to drive the car on account of that either.
Mr.Griffin. Now you and I have had lunch together.
Mr.Senator. Yes.
Mr.Griffin. And we have had breaks here and on these occasions we have talked and you have talked with Mr. Hubert also on these occasions. Is there anything that we talked with you about in these times when we haven’t had a court reporter present that we haven’t covered here in our deposition?
Mr.Senator. It would be hard for me to think what you have left out, you know. I have never had a questioning like this in my life before. When I originally came down here I thought I would only be here—I thought the questioning would probably be similar to being questioned by the FBI or the Secret Service. First of all how was I to know? What was I to expect, see? I just couldn’t believe that I would be here 2 days. I couldn’t think how it was possible where you could ask me so many questions, both of you.
Mr.Hubert. In any case you don’t recall anything dealing with the case, an aspect of it that was the subject of a conversation which has not been discussed on the record?
Mr.Senator. Offhand, I can’t. Offhand, I just can’t think of any because I think you all know more than I know. If you can remember the Times Square Cafeteria you know more than I know. You are not going to put that too, are you?
Mr.Griffin. Let me then ask this one final question.
Mr.Senator. Yes.
Mr.Griffin. If anything should come to your attention in the future, which pertains to the Ruby case that could be of assistance to us, will you contact somebody in the Government and let them know so that we can have a complete record here. He is nodding his head yes.
Mr.Senator. Because he can’t write the nod down there?
Mr.Hubert. Thank you very much indeed for coming.
Mr.Griffin. I want to say to him that it has been a pleasure to talk with you; we think your cooperation has been most helpful.