Mr.Griffin. Do you recall what his name was?
Mr.Crafard. No, sir; I don’t.
Mr.Griffin. But that wasn’t Mickey Ryan?
Mr.Crafard. No.
Mr.Griffin. Was that a friend of Mickey Ryan’s?
Mr.Crafard. I don’t know, sir. It might have been.
Mr.Griffin. Mr. Hubert, do you have any questions.
Mr.Hubert. Do you know what Mickey Ryan’s occupation was?
Mr.Crafard. As far as I knew, sir, he was a bartender.
Mr.Hubert. Where?
Mr.Crafard. It was a club called there a couple of days, a couple of different times asking for Mickey. I believe it was at the Gun Club where he went towork. When I first met him he was unemployed and then he went to work afterwards.
Mr.Hubert. It was your impression that he went to work as a bartender at the Gun Club.
Mr.Crafard. Yes.
Mr.Hubert. You formed that impression from what he told you?
Mr.Crafard. When they called they called asking for him and they said they wanted him in reference to a job, and he said he was trying to get a job as a bartender.
Mr.Hubert. Do you remember his having told you that he had gotten the job?
Mr.Crafard. Yes, sir; that is the reason I formed the impression that he had been a bartender.
Mr.Hubert. He told you so.
Mr.Crafard. Yes.
Mr.Hubert. I want to go back to that top entry on page 3 “seePaul”——
Mr.Griffin. Let me finish up on Mickey Ryan a second. Do you know what kind of a club this Gun Club was?
Mr.Crafard. No, sir; I had never been there.
Mr.Griffin. Was it just a bar or was it a place where people went to shoot skeet or trap or something like that?
Mr.Crafard. I don’t know, sir. I believe the call came in as the Hunt Club or something like that or Hunter’s Club or something of that sort, the call came in.
Mr.Griffin. So you are not sure that the name of the club is the Gun Club?
Mr.Crafard. No, sir.
Mr.Griffin. And do you have any idea where that club is located?
Mr.Crafard. It is near Dallas somewhere but that is all I know.
Mr.Griffin. Do you know if it is in downtown Dallas or in the outskirts or what?
Mr.Crafard. I believe that was on the outskirts of Dallas.
Mr.Griffin. Would this have been a country club, a golf club of some sort?
Mr.Crafard. It might have been; yes.
Mr.Griffin. All right, I am finished with that.
Mr.Hubert. Going to the top of page 3 that entry “See Paul Lubeachick here at 9:30.” I think you added something to that entry to the effect that that entry meant that that man was going to be there at 9:30?
Mr.Crafard. Yes, sir.
Mr.Hubert. The part you added was that he couldn’t stay very long.
Mr.Crafard. That is the impression that I had when I talked to him, sir. He said somethingabout——
Mr.Hubert. You have a distinct recollection therefore of that particular episode and that man?
Mr.Crafard. Of the call coming in; yes.
Mr.Hubert. Was it a call?
Mr.Crafard. Yes, sir.
Mr.Hubert. The man gave you that name and said that he would be there at 9:30?
Mr.Crafard. Yes, sir.
Mr.Hubert. But that he could not wait very long?
Mr.Crafard. I believe it was something like the fact that he would be there at 9:30 and he wanted to see Jack, that he couldn’t stay there for any length of time.
Mr.Hubert. Do you recall whether he came in at 9:30?
Mr.Crafard. I don’t recall, sir. After the club opened I was too busy to notice who came in.
Mr.Hubert. With an entry of that nature isn’t it fair to say that you would have conveyed that information in its totality to Jack?
Mr.Crafard. That is right, sir.
Mr.Hubert. In other words, you would have told him not merely that the man was coming in at 9:30 but that he had said he couldn’t wait very long.
Mr.Crafard. Yes, sir.
Mr.Hubert. Do you recall having done so?
Mr.Crafard. I’m not positive, sir. I don’t recall it clearly.
Mr.Hubert. Did you ever at any time after that see a man named Paul Lubeachick?
Mr.Crafard. I don’t remember, sir. I don’t believe so.
Mr.Hubert. But you do remember that you told Jack he couldn’t wait very long?
Mr.Crafard. Yes, sir.
Mr.Hubert. Do you remember Jack’s reaction to that?
Mr.Crafard. No, sir.
Mr.Griffin. I believe Mickey Ryan and a telephone number under there is the last entry on page 3.
Mr.Crafard. Yes.
Mr.Griffin. I am going to turn over page 3 to the back. There is the name Stanley Kaufman and a telephone number after that. Did you ever meet Stanley Kaufman?
Mr.Crafard. I don’t recall ever meeting him, sir.
Mr.Griffin. Do you know who he is?
Mr.Crafard. No, sir.
Mr.Griffin. Now was Stanley Kaufman a name that Jack would have wanted kept on a permanent basis?
Mr.Crafard. I don’t know, sir.
Mr.Griffin. There is a line with nothing written on it following the entry in connection with Stanley Kaufman, and there is a notation “Wednesday pay bill at phone company.”
Mr.Crafard. Yes, sir.
Mr.Griffin. Was that something you were to do?
Mr.Crafard. Something I was to remind Jack to do.
Mr.Griffin. Would we be able to date anything in this book from that entry of Wednesday pay phone bill, for example, if we knew when Jack paid his telephone bill in October or November? Would we be able to draw any conclusions as to all of the entries in the book which appear before that entry “Wed pay bill at phone company?”
Mr.Crafard. No, sir; I don’t think so.
Mr.Griffin. There is a line after the entry in connection with the phone company, and then there is something written. What is written?
Mr.Crafard. Riky Kasada.
Mr.Griffin. And is that somebody’s name?
Mr.Crafard. Yes, sir.
Mr.Griffin. Is that your spelling of a name that was spoken to you or did somebody actually dictate that spelling to you?
Mr.Crafard. I believe it is my own spelling.
Mr.Griffin. So it is simply what we would call your interpretation of the phonetics?
Mr.Crafard. Yes, sir.
Mr.Griffin. Who is Riky Kasada?
Mr.Crafard. I don’t know, sir.
Mr.Griffin. After that there is another name.
Mr.Crafard. Scotty Milles, M-i-l-l-e-s.
Mr.Griffin. Scotty Milles, M-i-l-l-e-s?
Mr.Crafard. Yes, sir, M-i-l-l-e-s.
Mr.Griffin. Who was he?
Mr.Crafard. It was a she. She was the woman who called me in reference to Mickey on this job.
Mr.Griffin. In other words, she called to inquire about Mickey Ryan?
Mr.Crafard. Yes, sir.
Mr.Griffin. And do you remember the conversation you had with her?
Mr.Crafard. No, sir; I don’t.
Mr.Griffin. Did she indicate where she was calling from?
Mr.Crafard. She said something about a club or something.
Mr.Griffin. Was it this Hunt Club or Gun Club?
Mr.Crafard. Yes.
Mr.Griffin. Is there any connection between Riky Kasada and Scotty Milles?
Mr.Crafard. I don’t believe so, sir.
Mr.Griffin. Under the entry reference on Mickey, there is a line and then there are some figures written there. Do you make anything out of those numbers?
Mr.Crafard. No, sir; I don’t.
Mr.Griffin. Are those in your handwriting?
Mr.Crafard. Yes, sir.
Mr.Griffin. Would those be expenses that you had or money that you took out of the cash register?
Mr.Crafard. No, sir.
Mr.Griffin. No?
Mr.Crafard. That is right.
Mr.Griffin. Do you think if you sat here awhile and thought about it you might be able to make something out of this?
Mr.Crafard. No; I don’t believe so. It might be some bills that I had paid or something. Maybe some champagne I had bought or something like that that I had put down, the money I had been given and what I had spent.
Mr.Hubert. You are clear though that those figures refer to money?
Mr.Crafard. I would say so by the way they are wrote down.
Mr.Hubert. Is the significant point about the way they are written down that indicates that they refer to money.
Mr.Crafard. The number 1420 is wrote down like you write down $14.20.
Mr.Hubert. By doing what to the 1420?
Mr.Crafard. Putting the dot behind your 14.
Mr.Hubert. You put the decimal?
Mr.Crafard. Yes.
Mr.Hubert. Is that the way you write money?
Mr.Crafard. Yes, sir.
Mr.Hubert. So that you would say that those figures being in your handwriting would be the way you would write figures concerning money?
Mr.Crafard. Yes, sir.
Mr.Griffin. That concludes the back side of page 3. I want to turn to page 4 then. What is written at the top of page 4?
Mr.Crafard. The name Norma Bennett with the number CA 4-2234.
Mr.Griffin. Is that Bennett or Barnett?
Mr.Crafard. I believe it is Bennett. As I have wrote it it appears to be Barnett.
Mr.Griffin. But you think the name is Bennett.
Mr.Crafard. I believe so; yes.
Mr.Griffin. Now who is Norma Bennett?
Mr.Crafard. She is a young lady that called in connection with the ad that Jack had ran, subsequently came in and met Jack. Jack tried to talk her to go to work as a stripper.
Mr.Griffin. Did she ever work for him in any capacity?
Mr.Crafard. Not that I know of, sir; not around the Carousel.
Mr.Griffin. When did you first see her?
Mr.Crafard. When she came into the club the day after she phoned. I believe that was about 4 weeks before President Kennedy was assassinated.
Mr.Griffin. And did you talk to her at all?
Mr.Crafard. Yes, sir.
Mr.Griffin. What was your conversation with her?
Mr.Crafard. Just getting acquainted with her more than anything. She seemed like a pretty nice girl. We got along pretty well.
Mr.Griffin. How long did she remain in the club that day?
Mr.Crafard. I believe she was around the club most of the afternoon.
Mr.Griffin. And was Jack there during that period?
Mr.Crafard. Jack came in after she arrived.
Mr.Griffin. How long did Jack stay while she was there?
Mr.Crafard. I believe he spent a couple of hours around the club.
Mr.Griffin. Do you remember any conversation Jack had?
Mr.Crafard. Not particularly, sir.
Mr.Hubert. With reference to the entry on page 4 concerning Norma Barnett, is there any doubt in your mind that, as it is written, it is Barnett and not Bennett?
Mr.Crafard. No doubt in my mind it is spelled Barnett, B-a-r-n-e-t-t.
Mr.Hubert. You got that over the phone when she called; is that right?
Mr.Crafard. Yes, sir.
Mr.Hubert. What makes you think that her name was not really Barnett but Bennett?
Mr.Crafard. I believe that I already spoke of her as Norma Bennett I believe when I spoke with her. I recall that.
Mr.Hubert. Your testimony was that you subsequently met her.
Mr.Crafard. Yes.
Mr.Hubert. Did you then learn that her name was Bennett instead of Barnett?
Mr.Crafard. I very seldom used her last name after I met her. I believe when she introduced herself it sounded to me like she said Norma Bennett when she introduced herself to Jack.
Mr.Hubert. Obviously when you heard it over the phone you thought it was Barnett because that is the way you put it down.
Mr.Crafard. That is right, sir.
Mr.Hubert. But thereafter you think you learned from her that it was Bennett?
Mr.Crafard. I might have misspelled it to myself or something. I referred to her as Bennett all the time.
Mr.Hubert. To whom did you refer as Bennett?
Mr.Crafard. Whenever I used her name to Jack a couple of times when we was talking about her.
Mr.Hubert. Did you ever use the name Bennett to her?
Mr.Crafard. I don’t recall ever using her last name to her, sir.
Mr.Hubert. Is it fair to say that you really don’t know what her last name is?
Mr.Crafard. That is right, sir.
Mr.Hubert. What is the next word after CA 4-2234?
Mr.Crafard. Waitress.
Mr.Hubert. And then under that?
Mr.Crafard. Judy Armstrong.
Mr.Hubert. What is under that?
Mr.Crafard. Congress, the phone number Congress 9-2576, Carlton, Tex.
Mr.Hubert. Do you think those four lines beginning with waitress and ending up with Carlton, Tex., all deal with the same transaction?
Mr.Crafard. I believe so; yes, sir.
Mr.Hubert. In other words, the word “waitress” doesn’t deal with the direction above it but the transaction below it?
Mr.Crafard. That is right, sir.
Mr.Hubert. What was that, a call from somebody who wanted to be a waitress?
Mr.Crafard. Yes, sir; I believe so.
Mr.Hubert. Did you ever meet that person?
Mr.Crafard. I don’t recall meeting her.
Mr.Hubert. Do you know if Jack called her?
Mr.Crafard. I don’t know if he called her or not, sir.
Mr.Hubert. All right; let’s pass to the next entry under that.
Mr.Crafard. Excuse me 1 minute, please. It seems to me this Judy Armstrong was a number that one night one of the girls was sick and one of the other girls that had the night off and we needed another girl and this is a girl that had worked for Jack, I believe, and we tried to call her. I am not positive of that. Or we tried to call her to go to work or something.
Mr.Hubert. What you are saying is that insofar as the entry concerning Judy Armstrong which begins with the word waitress and ends with Carlton, Tex.
Mr.Crafard. Yes, sir.
Mr.Hubert. You first testified that you thought that this was a person answering an ad?
Mr.Crafard. Yes.
Mr.Hubert. Now you think that actually you all sought to call her to work in place of someone who was ill?
Mr.Crafard. I believe the way it worked out she had called in connection with the ad and we had her number down on the list of girls to call and one night we needed a girl and we tried to call her and couldn’t get in touch with her. Tried to call her to come to work and couldn’t get in touch with her.
Mr.Hubert. So that the entry on page 4 was actually made as you said it was?
Mr.Crafard. Yes.
Mr.Hubert. When she called applying for a job but you have an independent recollection other than the entry that on some occasion you called her to just see if she could substitute?
Mr.Crafard. Yes.
Mr.Hubert. Do you remember whether you reached her.
Mr.Crafard. I don’t recall reaching her, sir.
Mr.Hubert. And you have never met her?
Mr.Crafard. No, sir.
Mr.Hubert. All right; what about Burt Nelson?
Mr.Crafard. Burt Nelson, Chez Femme, the phone number EM 3-6324, and I don’t know who Mr. Nelson is.
Mr.Hubert. What is that Chez Femme?
Mr.Crafard. I believe that is a place he worked, I am not sure.
Mr.Hubert. What sort of a place is it?
Mr.Crafard. I don’t recall, sir. I believe it was a clothing store of some sort.
Mr.Hubert. A what?
Mr.Crafard. A clothing store of some sort, sir, I believe, I am not positive.
Mr.Hubert. What about the entry under that?
Mr.Crafard. Buddy, hyphenized, Floyd Turner, phone number LY 2-5903, Tyler, Tex. I don’t remember ever meeting him. I believe Jack referred to him as Budd Turner though.
Mr.Hubert. Would that be a call that had come in or a call given to you by Jack?
Mr.Crafard. I am not sure, sir. I believe it was one given to me by Jack.
Mr.Hubert. Do you know anything about that man?
Mr.Crafard. No, sir.
Mr.Hubert. Never met him.
Mr.Crafard. Not that I know of.
Mr.Hubert. Did you ever hear his name spoken other than in this connection?
Mr.Crafard. No, sir.
Mr.Hubert. Let’s turn over to the next page then which is page 5. Would you read it because I can’t read your handwriting.
Mr.Crafard. Page 5 or do you want to read the reverse of page 4, sir.
Mr.Hubert. I want to read the reverse of page 4 I beg your pardon.
Mr.Crafard. It starts with line Linda phone number RI 2-0720, and the initials R. W. Bowsher.
Mr.Hubert. Do you think that those three entries relate to the same thing.
Mr.Crafard. I don’t believe they do, sir.
Mr.Hubert. Then tell us what they do mean independently.
Mr.Crafard. I believe the line DA and the line number is a number where we could get ahold of this girl Linda, but the R. W. Bowsher I have no recollection of what it would be.
Mr.Hubert. Does it seem to be written with a different pen or pencil?
Mr.Crafard. The pencil that was used for the word Linda and the phone number seems to have been sharper than the one used for R. W. Bowsher.
Mr.Hubert. Was it your custom to separate independent episodes by leaving a blank line between them?
Mr.Crafard. I have done so most of the time; yes, sir.
Mr.Hubert. In this case you don’t seem to have done so.
Mr.Crafard. Sometimes I would put them right under something else.
Mr.Hubert. Anyway your recollection now is that you think the word Linda and the telephone number under it is independent from the line that immediately follows which reads “R. W. Bowsher?”
Mr.Crafard. I believe so; yes sir.
Mr.Hubert. Who is Linda?
Mr.Crafard. I don’t know, sir; I don’t recall.
Mr.Hubert. You said she wasa——
Mr.Crafard. I believe she was more like a girl that called in answer to the ad we ran in the paper.
Mr.Hubert. What about R. W. Bowsher, then?
Mr.Crafard. I don’t recall anything about him.
Mr.Hubert. Let’s pass to the next entry which is separated from R. W. Bowsher by a blank line.
Mr.Crafard. Buddy Heard, Loflin Hotel, phone number KE 2-4672.
Mr.Hubert. Isn’t that 71?
Mr.Crafard. 71, yes sir. And underneath that the numbers 5336827, and 100 North Florence—and the word “office.” I believe that would be the fact that Buddy Heard was staying at the Loflin Hotel. The KE number would be a number where we could reach Buddy Heard. The next number down would be probably a number for the office. I am not sure.
Mr.Hubert. And the telephone for that office.
Mr.Crafard. I believe would be the 533-6827. I am not positive.
Mr.Hubert. You think that those five lines beginning Buddy Heard and ending 100 North Florence—office are all related to the same transaction?
Mr.Crafard. I would believe so; yes.
Mr.Hubert. Do you think they are not related to the line which immediately follows starting “Burt called?”
Mr.Crafard. No, sir; I believe that is something entirely different.
Mr.Hubert. Do you know Buddy Heard?
Mr.Crafard. I am not positive. I believe I have met him. I am not sure. But “Burt called” underneaththat——
Mr.Hubert. Let’s not leave Buddy Heard yet. Does the name mean anything to you at all? You might have some recollection in your mind?
Mr.Crafard. I have heard the name mentioned several times but I don’t know what Heard done for a living. I believe he had something in connection with the actor’s union. I am not sure.
Mr.Hubert. You don’t think you have ever met him?
Mr.Crafard. I am not sure, sir.
Mr.Hubert. Go to the next entry, then.
Mr.Crafard. Burt will call later. You have his home number. I believe that would be all related.
Mr.Hubert. Those four lines would be related to one another?
Mr.Crafard. Yes.
Mr.Hubert. What would be the significance of that?
Mr.Crafard. The fact that this Burt called and wouldn’t leave the number but said that Jack had his home number.
Mr.Hubert. “You” there refers to Jack, right?
Mr.Crafard. Yes.
Mr.Hubert. In other words, this was a note that was being written so that when Jack read it if he weren’t there he would know it was written to him?
Mr.Crafard. That is right, sir.
Mr.Hubert. Who is Burt?
Mr.Crafard. I don’t recall who he was.
Mr.Hubert. All right. That finishes the back of page 4. Mr. Griffin, do you want to start with page 5?
Mr.Griffin. In other words, you got through the entries “Burt called.” For my own clarification, did we identify where the Loflin Hotel is, which city that is in?
Mr.Crafard. No, sir; we didn’t.
Mr.Griffin. Do you know where that is?
Mr.Crafard. I am not sure. I believe that it is Dallas. I am not positive.
Mr.Griffin. Are all of the entries from Buddy Heard to 100 North Florence—office——
Mr.Hubert. That has been covered.
Mr.Griffin. Then on the top of page 5 there is a series of notations. Would you read those off.
Mr.Crafard. “Get ad off to Hyman.” In other words things to tell Jack, to remind Jack he had to do was to get an ad off to Hyman, pay a phone bill and go to the bank and then appointment call to Earl.
Mr.Griffin. Do you recall what ad there was to get off to Hyman?
Mr.Crafard. I believe it was the ad in connection with the twistboards. I am not positive. We were sending an ad to this Hyman.
Mr.Griffin. Do you recall where the ad was to be placed?
Mr.Crafard. No, sir. He was to mail it, I believe, I am not positive.
Mr.Griffin. What is the meaning of “appointment call to Earl”? What is an appointment call?
Mr.Crafard. He had called and asked the operator to place the call at a certain time and to call him back when the connection had been made.
Mr.Griffin. The mailing of the ad to Hyman and the paying of the phone bill and the going to the bank and the appointment call to Earl, did these all occur on the same day?
Mr.Crafard. I believe so.
Mr.Griffin. There is a line drawn under appointment call to Earl. It separates the page in half roughly.
Mr.Crafard. Yes, sir.
Mr.Griffin. What is the significance of that line.
Mr.Crafard. It would be that this top portion of the page would have been 1 day, things I had wrote down for 1 day. The bottom of it would have been another day or on 2 or 3 days later.
Mr.Griffin. Now, there is an entry there “get post office box.”
Mr.Crafard. Yes.
Mr.Griffin. What was that in connection with?
Mr.Crafard. I believe he was going to get another post office box to use for this twistboard setup.
Mr.Griffin. Did he already have one post office box before that?
Mr.Crafard. I believe he was receiving the mail through the Carousel Club and his home address.
Mr.Griffin. There is a number under there RI 1-0345. Do you know whose phone number that is?
Mr.Crafard. No, sir; I don’t.
Mr.Griffin. And there is a line with nothing written on it after that, and there is another entry. What is that?
Mr.Crafard. “Pauline called” at I believe 4 and will be in about 7 or something like that.
Mr.Griffin. Who was Pauline?
Mr.Crafard. She was more or less I’d say the assistant manager over at the Vegas Club.
Mr.Griffin. That was Pauline Hall.
Mr.Crafard. I would say so.
Mr.Griffin. That concludes the front part of page 5; is that correct?
Mr.Crafard. Yes.
Mr.Griffin. Mr. Hubert, do you have any questions you want to ask on those entries on page 5?
Mr.Hubert. Do you remember the appointment call with Earl?
Mr.Crafard. No, sir; I don’t.
Mr.Hubert. Those entries at the top of page 5, the four of them, the things that you were to do or remind him of, were they simply told to you by Jack over the phone or in person and then you were to remind him the next day or later?
Mr.Crafard. Things that Jack said and I was to remind him the next day. I believe on this phone call he had tried to place it one day and he couldn’t get the phone call through so he arranged for an appointment call the next afternoon I believe it was.
Mr.Hubert. Did you do it yourself?
Mr.Crafard. If Jack did?
Mr.Hubert. Do you remember him doing it?
Mr.Crafard. I can remember him placing, trying to place a call to Earl one day and he couldn’t make it and he arranged a call for the next day. But I don’t know if this was the incident or not.
Mr.Hubert. What this simply means is that you were to remind him of it?
Mr.Crafard. Yes, sir.
Mr.Hubert. That was then your function with respect to it?
Mr.Crafard. Yes, sir.
Mr.Griffin. Do you recall Jack ever mentioning or did you ever hear anything about the Triangle Manufacturing Co.
Mr.Crafard. I don’t recall it, sir.
Mr.Griffin. Do you recall if Jack had any dealings with any people in Wisconsin?
Mr.Crafard. Not that I know of, sir.
Mr.Griffin. I am going to turn over to the back of page 5. There is a name written at the top of the back of page 5. What name is that?
Mr.Crafard. Jerry Lindsay.
Mr.Griffin. Who is Jerry Lindsay?
Mr.Crafard. He called in wanting a job. He had been a floorman in another club and he called in asking about a job at the Carousel Club.
Mr.Griffin. What is a floorman?
Mr.Crafard. A polite way of saying bouncer.
Mr.Griffin. Did Jack employ a bouncer while you were there?
Mr.Crafard. No, sir.
Mr.Griffin. Did you ever talk to Jack about why he did or did not, why he didn’t have a bouncer?
Mr.Crafard. No, sir.
Mr.Griffin. Was there any need for a bouncer?
Mr.Crafard. No, sir; not the Carousel Club. This would have been in connection with the Vegas Club, I believe.
Mr.Griffin. Was there a tougher crowd at the Vegas Club?
Mr.Crafard. They had sometimes some pretty tough crowds out there on weekend nights. People would get drunk and start giving them trouble. The floorman would talk to the man trying to get him to quiet and if he wouldn’t be quiet he would escort him to the door.
Mr.Griffin. The Vegas Club didn’t have stripteasers did it?
Mr.Crafard. No.
Mr.Griffin. Yet there was a tougher crowd there at the Vegas.
Mr.Crafard. Yes.
Mr.Griffin. Why was that?
Mr.Crafard. The type of crowd that frequented the clubs, the Carousel Club and the other burlesque shows in town was the businessmen more than anything, whereas the Vegas Club’s clientele was more or less common laborers, working people. It was a dance club where you could go in and buy beer, soft drinks and you could dance, and the clientele there was of the rougher nature.
Mr.Griffin. I was a little bit confused in your testimony yesterday.
Was it your impression that Jack was doing better financially off the Vegas than off the Carousel?
Mr.Crafard. Definitely; yes.
Mr.Griffin. And you say that with positiveness? What makes you so positive about that?
Mr.Crafard. Two or three different times Jack said if it wasn’t for the Vegas Club he would have had to close the Carousel down a long time before. The Vegas Club was making enough money to keep the Carousel and the Vegas both running.
Mr.Griffin. Why do you think he kept the Carousel open?
Mr.Crafard. I don’t know, sir. There had been a stretch where I guess he had had pretty bad luck with the Carousel, hadn’t been making much money and he used the money he made from the Vegas Club to keep the Carousel going at that time from what I understood.
Mr.Griffin. But the time you were working there was the Carousel carrying its own?
Mr.Crafard. I believe so; yes, sir; to my knowledge.
Mr.Griffin. So you felt that in the month or 2 months that you worked for Jack, both the Vegas and the Carousel were self-sustaining operations?
Mr.Crafard. Yes.
Mr.Griffin. After this entry about Jerry Lindsay, there is a telephone number TA 7-2553 floorman, and I understand from your testimony those all should be read together. Then there is a line with nothing written on it and there is a notation which I wonder if you can decipher.
Mr.Crafard. “Talked to Leo—Mrs. Grant.”
Mr.Griffin. Would you recall the significance of that, who Leo was?
Mr.Crafard. He worked at, I believe he was handling the floor at the Carousel most of the time. I don’t recall what his last name was. I believe this was the night that I stayed at the Vegas Club for Jack the first night. I believe Leo called and I talked to him and then I talked to Mrs. Grant right away. Mrs. Grant called right away after that and I talked to her. I am not positive.
Mr.Griffin. Is it your impression that the call from Jerry Lindsay was also taken at the Vegas Club?
Mr.Crafard. No; the call from Jerry Lindsay was taken at the Carousel Club.
Mr.Griffin. How about the telephone number under that,EM——
Mr.Crafard. That is FL 1-9303.
Mr.Griffin. Yes; do you knowwhat——
Mr.Crafard. I don’t recall what it would be in connection with, sir.
Mr.Griffin. Or the next telephone number.
Mr.Crafard. No, sir.
Mr.Griffin. That concludes page 5. Now let me turn over to page 6. There are some entries on there, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and Saturday, and then from Sunday through Monday you have entries of amounts of money after that. Did you make those entries on there?
Mr.Crafard. Yes.
Mr.Griffin. And what do those refer to?
Mr.Crafard. It refers to draws that I made from the till.
Mr.Griffin. Do you recall what week that would have been that you made that entry?
Mr.Crafard. No sir; I don’t.
Mr.Griffin. The entries for Thursday, Friday, and Saturday are not complete. Do you have any recollection on the basis of that that it was the last week that you worked there?
Mr.Crafard. No; I don’t believe so, sir. I don’t believe it was. I might have been but I don’t believe it was.
Mr.Hubert. Larry, I notice that nowhere else in this little book are there entries of that nature. Can we assume that you only kept such records for 1 week or rather 4 days of 1 week?
Mr.Crafard. I believe this was because of the fact that Jack had agreed to start paying me a salary and he wanted me to keep track of my draw slips, draws on that, and then it appears about Wednesday or Thursday he told me to quit keeping it, didn’t have to keep track of it any more or something.
Mr.Hubert. When you first went there it was just on a draw basis.
Mr.Crafard. Yes.
Mr.Hubert. Then you talked to him about a salary?
Mr.Crafard. Yes.
Mr.Hubert. He told you that he would think it over.
Mr.Crafard. Yes.
Mr.Hubert. And your testimony now is that after you all had talked about a salary he wanted to know what your draw was so that he could adjust the salary accordingly, is that right?
Mr.Crafard. Yes.
Mr.Hubert. So that these entries would have been made about the time that you talked about a salary?
Mr.Crafard. Yes, sir. It would have been about 3 weeks before the assassination of President Kennedy I believe, sir.
Mr.Griffin. That you talkedabout——
Mr.Crafard. About the salary; yes.
Mr.Hubert. It is fair to say then that these entries relate to that week, to wit, about 3 weeks before the assassination.
Mr.Crafard. It would be 2 or 3 weeks before the assassination.
Mr.Hubert. You said that the significance of the fact that there are no entries for Thursday, Friday and Saturday is that Jack told you that it was no longer necessary to keep a record of your draws?
Mr.Crafard. I would believe so; yes, sir.
Mr.Hubert. What did that mean with respect to whether you were going on salary or not?
Mr.Crafard. I don’t remember what it had to do with that, sir.
Mr.Hubert. Did you go on a salary?
Mr.Crafard. I never was paid any salary.
Mr.Hubert. But you do remember he told you to stop keeping a record.
Mr.Crafard. I believe that would be the reason that I quit. I don’t actually recall him saying so but I believe that would be the reason.
Mr.Hubert. Doesn’t that refresh your memory?
Mr.Crafard. No sir; it doesn’t.
Mr.Hubert. You didn’t let me finish but I will repeat it. Doesn’t that refresh your memory with respect to the fact that you all had agreed upon a salary then? Could it have any other significance?
Mr.Crafard. He had said something; he said I would draw a salary but I don’t believe there was ever any exact figure agreed upon. I don’t remember of any.
Mr.Hubert. In other words, on Wednesday, although you had not agreed on what the amount of the salary would be, your recollection is that he told you it was no longer necessary to keep this because there would be a salary?
Mr.Crafard. Yes; I believe so.
Mr.Hubert. But there never was any salary paid at all.
Mr.Crafard. That is right.
Mr.Hubert. When did you normally make these entries?
Mr.Crafard. Whenever I’d make a draw. Usually in the evening I made most of my draws.
Mr.Hubert. And you would put it in the book immediately.
Mr.Crafard. Yes; usually.
Mr.Hubert. Isn’t it a fact that sometimes you would put it in there the next day.
Mr.Crafard. I might sometimes the next day; yes.
Mr.Hubert. Isn’t it a fact also that at the beginning of that week you wrote down all of these days and then the entries were made as you drew for each day?
Mr.Crafard. Yes.
Mr.Hubert. Now an entry for Thursday would have been made on Friday, wouldn’t it?
Mr.Crafard. I believe it would have been made on Thursday.
Mr.Hubert. I think you just told me that there was at least the possibility.
Mr.Crafard. There was a possibility I would have waited until Friday but I believe I would have made the entries on the day I made the draw.
Mr.Hubert. I am suggesting to you that these sets of entries have to do with the week in which President Kennedy was killed, and that is that you had agreed upon a salary on the Wednesday.
Mr.Crafard. I don’t recall exactly what week they had to do with, sir; really. It could have been that week.
Mr.Hubert. But you had agreed on salary?
Mr.Crafard. Yes.
Mr.Hubert. But not the amount of it?
Mr.Crafard. That is right.
Mr.Hubert. And you never were paid any?
Mr.Crafard. That is right.
Mr.Hubert. For instance, the Saturday before you left Dallas you were not paid a salary.
Mr.Crafard. No.
Mr.Hubert. Had a salary been agreed upon prior to that time?
Mr.Crafard. I don’t recall that, sir.
Mr.Hubert. If it had it would have been paid wouldn’t it?
Mr.Crafard. Yes; it would have been.
Mr.Hubert. Doesn’t that pinpoint then this series of days as being the week during which President Kennedy was killed on a Friday.
Mr.Crafard. It seems to; yes.
Mr.Griffin. After the entry “Saturday” there is a blank line and then there is an entry “call home as soon as possible.”
How did that come to be written?
Mr.Crafard. I don’t remember, sir. It could have been somebody called in to have one of the girls call home or something like this. A couple of the girls had been married and had children.
Mr.Griffin. Was that a note left for Jack Ruby or for yourself?
Mr.Crafard. I don’t believe it was for Jack Ruby. I don’t remember.
Mr.Griffin. Did you carry this notebook on your person at all times?
Mr.Crafard. When I was in the club it was in my pocket all the time.
Mr.Griffin. And when you were not in the club?
Mr.Crafard. Most of the time it would be in my pocket, anyway.
Mr.Griffin. Now there is a telephone number written after the previous entry, and it is RI 1-4643. Do you remember that entry?
Mr.Crafard. No, sir; I don’t remember it.
Mr.Griffin. That concludes page 6.
Now let me turn over page 6 to the back, and there is something written on there, Schroll. Is that in your handwriting?
Mr.Crafard. Yes.
Mr.Griffin. And then there is the name Dick Gifford, KTVT, Fort Worth, TA 3-7110. Is that in your handwriting?
Mr.Crafard. Yes.
Mr.Griffin. Now do you remember how this Schroll name happened to be written down?
Mr.Crafard. No, sir; I don’t.
Mr.Griffin. Or who that refers to?
Mr.Crafard. No, sir.
Mr.Griffin. How about Dick Gifford?
Mr.Crafard. He was I believe an MC over at the KTVT.
Mr.Griffin. Now do you remember how that entry happened to be put in there?
Mr.Crafard. It was something in connection with the twist board setup. I called him in connection with—Jack give me the number to call and ask for this Dick Gifford.
Mr.Griffin. Then what did you say to Dick Gifford?
Mr.Crafard. I believe it was something on the price of advertisement on TV, for a TV advertisement or something of that sort.
Mr.Griffin. And what makes you think that it was the price of a TV ad?
Mr.Crafard. Mostly this next line hasn’t got anything on it. It has been erased. I believe I erased it, 150 for 1 minute, and I recall this 150 for 1 minute was in connection with a TV advertisement.
I don’t remember whether I made the call or whether Jack made the call or what.
Mr.Griffin. After the line 150 for 1 minute, which is partially erased, there is an entry “Names of record shops where it can be bought.”
Mr.Crafard. Yes.
Mr.Griffin. What does that refer to?
Mr.Crafard. I am not sure of what it does refer to, sir. Probably a record of some kind that Jack was wanting to get ahold of.
Mr.Griffin. Is that in your handwriting?
Mr.Crafard. Yes.
Mr.Griffin. Do you recall any records that Jack was interested in buying?
Mr.Crafard. He was buying records and bought a lot of records he gave away as prizes in the club.
Mr.Griffin. What kind of records were they?
Mr.Crafard. Such records as, Belly Dancer and Striptease for Your Husband. Rusty Warren records and such as that.
Mr.Griffin. So they were what you might call party records?
Mr.Crafard. Yes; party records.
Mr.Griffin. Did Jack show an interest in any other kind of records besides party records.
Mr.Crafard. Not for the club that I ever saw.
Mr.Griffin. How about for other purposes?
Mr.Crafard. I don’t remember him ever saying anything about records for anything else.
Mr.Griffin. That concludes the back part of page 6.
We will turn over to the front part of page 7. There are some entries there. Are those entries all in your handwriting?
Mr.Crafard. Yes.
Mr.Griffin. The first entry is Joe Roskydall.
Mr.Crafard. Yes.
Mr.Griffin. Would you tell us again who Joe Roskydall is?
Mr.Crafard. The name Roskydall is the last name of a friend of mine. This Joe was a number in the phone number I called when I was trying to locate this friend of mine.
Mr.Griffin. What is your friend’s first name.
Mr.Crafard. Robert Roskydall.
Mr.Griffin. And was Robert living with Joe Roskydall?
Mr.Crafard. No; I figured they might be related. He had been around Dallas for quite a while and I thought they might be related in some way.
Mr.Griffin. There is something written on the next line after Joe Roskydall. What is that?
Mr.Crafard. It looks like Benning, EV 1-6260.
Mr.Griffin. Does that have any connection with Joe Roskydall?
Mr.Crafard. I don’t believe so.
Mr.Griffin. Do you recall what Benning was?
Mr.Crafard. No, sir.
Mr.Griffin. What is written on the next line?
Mr.Crafard. W. J. Groveland, DA 1-5178.
Mr.Griffin. Is that a person?
Mr.Crafard. I believe so; yes.
Mr.Griffin. Who was that?
Mr.Crafard. I don’t recall.
Mr.Griffin. Do you recall how that entry came to be?
Mr.Crafard. No, sir.
Mr.Griffin. There is another entry there.
Mr.Crafard. Dick Lenard.
Mr.Griffin. Yes; who is Dick Lenard?
Mr.Crafard. I don’t recall that, sir.
Mr.Griffin. There is another one.
Mr.Crafard. KTVT TA 3-7110.
Mr.Griffin. That is the same number that you had for Dick Gifford.
Mr.Crafard. Yes.
Mr.Griffin. Does that indicate that there was a second call made?
Mr.Crafard. I believe that this KTVT here was wrote down before the other one was. It was later he give me the name Dick Gifford for the same number.
Mr.Griffin. After the entry about KTVT there is a line with nothing written on it and there is some more writing.
Mr.Crafard. E. J. Evans.
Mr.Griffin. Do you know who he was?
Mr.Crafard. No.
Mr.Griffin. What is the next?
Mr.Crafard. Stevens Park Beauty Salon, 2140 Forth Worth.
Mr.Griffin. What is the significance of that entry?
Mr.Crafard. Jack had me calling the beauty salons trying to get them to promote this twist board for him.
Mr.Griffin. And did you call more than one beauty salon?
Mr.Crafard. I called several of them around Dallas. I don’t remember calling any in Fort Worth.
Mr.Griffin. What would you do when you would call these beauty salons.
Mr.Crafard. Talk to them about the twist boards.
Mr.Griffin. How would a typical conversation go.
Mr.Crafard. I’d call them and tellthem——
Mr.Griffin. Introduce yourself?
Mr.Crafard. Introduce myself and tell them that I was promoting a twist board exerciser and tell them a little bit about the exerciser and that we would like to arrange a deal where we could put this exerciser in their salon, put it for sale in their salons.
Mr.Griffin. And did you make any placements?
Mr.Crafard. No sir. Excuse me, but this one here was 2140 Fort Worth Avenue in Dallas, Tex.
Mr.Griffin. That would be in Dallas.
Mr.Crafard. Yes. The phone number would be WH 6-9755. Underneath that is mail brochure. I believe we were supposed to mail a brochure to them.
Mr.Griffin. Are you sure that is mail brochure and not Maisel Brothers.
Mr.Crafard. No, I am positive that is mail brochure, almost positive of that.
Mr.Griffin. And what were you supposed to do?
Mr.Crafard. Mail a brochure to this Stevens Park Beauty Salon.
Mr.Griffin. Did Jack have brochures printed up?
Mr.Crafard. Yes.
Mr.Griffin. How long after you started to work for him did he have these brochures? When did he first have them?
Mr.Crafard. I believe it was about 2 weeks before President Kennedy was assassinated he got them. He hadn’t got them very long.
Mr.Griffin. Can you describe the brochures? How many pages were they?
Mr.Crafard. One page. It was a sheet, I believe it was 7½ inches long and I believe it was about 5½ inches wide.
It said “Twist a waist exerciser,” and then it showed an exerciser board. Then I believe it showed a couple of the different positions of a person on an exerciser board. I am not positive of that.
Mr.Griffin. How big were these twist boards?
Mr.Crafard. They were about an 8-inch square.
Mr.Griffin. What were they made out of?
Mr.Crafard. I believe it was a 1½-inch pressed board.
Mr.Griffin. That would be wood of some sort.
Mr.Crafard. Pressed wood.
Mr.Griffin. Is that a fiberboard?
Mr.Crafard. Yes, sir.
Mr.Griffin. It is not a plastic though?
Mr.Crafard. I believe these boards were made out of sort of a plastic glue in the press board. Then underneath that would be a ball-bearing disk, sort of a twist setup with a small piece of masonite attached to the bottom of that. The board would twist on the ball bearings.
Mr.Griffin. And would you lie on the floor on this thing?
Mr.Crafard. No; you would stand on it and twist.
Mr.Griffin. Who designed this item?
Mr.Crafard. I don’t know who originally designed the item.
Mr.Griffin. Did you get the impression that Jack had designed it himself?
Mr.Crafard. I don’t really know, sir. I never got any idea of who had designed it.